Salmon trip

Page: < 123 Showing page 3 of 3
Author
Lucky13
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1849
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/10/26 04:40:48
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/04 13:28:32 (permalink)
Glad about being able to get a room at least during the week!  It is getting CO-O-O-O-O-OLD at night, the brace is due to come off this week, Selkirk closes soon, and Stony's has always been a little, eh, aromatic for my tastes.  Time  to move indoors.
 
hot tuna
This is what your river views mean to me...
The lake fishing has been absolutely fantastic the last 2-3 years. This my friends is firsthand information.
Now if you believe that there is more predators than forage, blah.
The predator base, besides lake trout is lower than it has been . Some want you to believe that natural reproduction is increasing the predator population , poopy, chock.. this is a ploy..

The fishery was created for the lake charters and they are having their day. With fewer fish, the trib angler are getting the short stick and if L-13 is correct with bigger cuts, the river guys will take a much bigger hit

What is your science, and evidence, other than a few internet and cellphone calls from guys out on the Lake?
 
The general "rule" with fish has always been that the better they are biting, the hungrier they are.( Maybe not for BTDT, even hungry fish seem to avoid him (and me!))  The last few years you can deploy junk lines, side planners, downriggers, almost anything, with virtually any lure and catch salmon.  Back when the lake was majorly overpopulated with bait,  even the top charter guys were not catching a lot of salmon in the Lake, many of the captains generally relied on Lake Trout for saving them from the "no fish free trip".  And the staging areas were loaded with fish in the fall, and the runs were "epic."  Now I'm hearing whining from the west end that there are no staging fish, they all went to the Salmon River, and whining from the Salmon River (and I have this first hand, too) that there are few fish.  I think I last saw a minor alewife die off in 2000, they were annual major events, even after the kings went in, for many years.  Smelt and emeralds are nearly unheard of.  If a farmer puts too many cows in a field for the available forage, exceeds the carrying capacity, the sickly and marginal cows do not necessarily suffer disproportionally and die, leaving the remainder of the forage for healthy cows, who remain healthy and prosper.  Rather, the whole population suffers, and while the weakest and most marginal may die first, the condition of all the cows suffers.  Salmon  size and condition has been reported to be on a decline for a number of years now.  Yellow Perch are generally inversely correlated to alewife populations; if there are lots of alewife, perch are grazed down as fry, and the perch population suffers.  Bays like Sodus have been having world class perch fishing the last few winters. These are all in addition to data provided by a long running and "well vetted in many waterbodies around the world" trawling program that showed a massive reduction in the Alewife population from what it was early in the program, so massive that the biologists now divide the data set into pre mussel and post mussel periods, and that recently shows what many of us see as a dangerous indication of exceedance of carrying capacity, namely the large reductions in year class sizes between the first and second year, and the extremely low numbers of large adults.  In this year's trawls, this is compounded by what looks like a pretty poor hatch in 2018.  One hypothesis that I jokingly offered on another website is that the Salmon all died of gluttony.  Steelhead a few years back were eating many more alewife to get a meal, and they disappeared, according to the toxicologists, because of too much thiaminase.  While not as susceptible as steelhead or Atlantics, Pacific salmon are also susceptible to Vitamin B deficiency.  I also pointed out what seems obvious to me, it is still warm, it was 91 in Rochester on Monday.   I'm happy to hear what pafisher says about lots of fish in the hatchery, but when  I was up there last year around this time, it was loaded too, but they were all green cohos, not the ripe kings that they are looking for first.  But like I said I think it is still early.
 
How quickly we seem to forget that for three years in a four years period, all kings stocked into the lake were fin clipped, and when  the returns were analyzed, it was approximately 50% of the returning fish had no fin clip.  MAGIC, they regenerated their fins! This study is so thoroughly mistrusted by the "you stock 'em, we box 'em" crowd out on the Lake that it will be repeated when the Coho study is done.  But I seem to recall a lot of chatter here about how many adipose fins were showing up, and they continue to document  massive numbers of fry in the SR every spring. 
 
I've heard nothing from my friends at NYSDEC about what they are contemplating, and we have not seen if there is any positive impact from the first round of cuts yet, and until they take eggs, they will not have the data on condition.  The fishery was created for alewife control, with the Lake fishery as a secondary benefit, and it has certainly cleaned up the dead alewife free beaches.  The trib fishery may never have existed except that the fish were too contaminated to sell for cat food.  Be aware, however, that there are elements of the "deep lake boxers" that would curtail the trib fishery again so that there is no threat to their fishery, and maybe just because they don't like proposals that would cut their limits on trout.  So it would be good to pay attention both to the data, and the different voices supporting or rejecting it.
 
Finally, I have no clue on what would motivate a fisheries biologist to "cob" the data in any direction.  And if you take the time to read the Fish Community Objectives, they are pretty much right on them.  Of course, that kind of planning effort also recognizes that the Canadians and the Feds have a say in the management of this International waterbody, and those partners are as interested in native species as introduced ones in the overall mix.  However,  if everyone keeps rejecting any data that does not support what they want to see,  I'm with Andy Todd of OMNRF, just throw in a bunch of stockies and see what comes back, and lets not spend all this money doing science that noone will listen to anyway in between.   And if it goes to hell in a handbag, oh, well!
#61
r3g3
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1419
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2014/03/24 16:42:10
  • Location: wallingford ct/pulaski
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/04 14:35:52 (permalink)
Informative and to the point- as usual
Thanks
Remember when ya couldn't even THINK about getting a room this time of year---(says a lot IMHO)
post edited by r3g3 - 2019/10/04 14:37:09
#62
pafisher
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2998
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/08/15 11:14:30
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/04 16:24:44 (permalink)
Not fishing,but I just bought gas at a Full Service station,have not seen that in YEEAARRS!!! Kwik Fill in Pulaski.
post edited by pafisher - 2019/10/04 16:26:31
#63
pafisher
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2998
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/08/15 11:14:30
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/05 18:13:37 (permalink)
My time on the SR is over this year,maybe forever.I might move out to Ohio to be closer to the only family I have,it all depends on me getting everything lined up,sell my house,buy(?) a house out there and all  that.the thought of packing everything and moving is not a pleasant thought,I dread it!However,there is plentyof good fishing out there for Steelhead,and it would be a lot closer.
#64
r3g3
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1419
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2014/03/24 16:42:10
  • Location: wallingford ct/pulaski
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/05 19:28:27 (permalink)
May you enjoy good health, good times and tight lines wherever you go.
#65
hot tuna
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 5599
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/06 18:30:43 (permalink)
pafisher
My time on the SR is over this year,maybe forever.I might move out to Ohio to be closer to the only family I have,it all depends on me getting everything lined up,sell my house,buy(?) a house out there and all  that.the thought of packing everything and moving is not a pleasant thought,I dread it!However,there is plentyof good fishing out there for Steelhead,and it would be a lot closer.


Jack, you are a true fisherman and steward of that river
I'm glad you played with the fish you so enjoy.
I only hope to share waters with you again before my time.
Be well

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
#66
hot tuna
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 5599
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/06 18:32:45 (permalink)
L-13.
It's not cell calls or internet hype. Just real people I talk to regularly
Sorry

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
#67
hot tuna
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 5599
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/06 18:45:58 (permalink)
My son and I both agree we want nothing to do with the tributaries salmon season on the great lakes. There is so much more to explore. That said, we don't mind the lake when she plays nice. Obviously you can't have your cake and eat it too but at this point in our lives, keep the cake, we'll eat icecream instead.

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
#68
Lucky13
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1849
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/10/26 04:40:48
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/06 19:01:19 (permalink)
So what is your, and their, science, and evidence?
#69
hot tuna
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 5599
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/06 19:27:14 (permalink)
My scientific knowledge is . The dec stocks 2 and 3 year old catch and release trout in a river section that does not winter over due to anchor ice. On a stream I fished for 50 years. The sections that are bait and keep, produce the largest, best fishery.
This leads me to believe, something is wrong. My dollars are being wasted on science instead of first hand knowledge.

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
#70
hot tuna
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 5599
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/06 20:00:05 (permalink)
I have also come to the conclusion to let the circus take and partake in the return of what salmon do migrate. It's been a long haul since I first decided to actually fish for spawning salmon but with the commercialism swath of down low and up high in terms of pay to play, it's disgusting now.

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
#71
Lucky13
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1849
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/10/26 04:40:48
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/07 06:11:29 (permalink)
hot tuna
My scientific knowledge is . The dec stocks 2 and 3 year old catch and release trout in a river section that does not winter over due to anchor ice. On a stream I fished for 50 years. The sections that are bait and keep, produce the largest, best fishery.
This leads me to believe, something is wrong. My dollars are being wasted on science instead of first hand knowledge.

I was not at all referring to the Ausable although I seriously doubt that anchor ice totally eliminates all the fish every winter in any section of that river, or Fran would not have been finding the fish he caught, and I would never be seeing the hogs that live under the flume.  But of course I'm not up there in the dead of winter ( and neither are you, you're walking around on Lake George.)
#72
Lucky13
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1849
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/10/26 04:40:48
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/07 06:43:41 (permalink)
"Now if you believe that there is more predators than forage, blah.
The predator base, besides lake trout is lower than it has been . Some want you to believe that natural reproduction is increasing the predator population , poopy, chock.. this is a ploy.."
 
That is the "poopy, chock" to which I referred.  No one has said there are more predators than bait.  But the data does exhibit declines in the bait that indicate a high risk that carrying capacity is being exceeded.  Lake trout were lowered 20% , the same amount percentage wise , as Kings, in the first cut, and were further reduced in the second cut due to problems at the Federal Hatchery.  Lake trout have also always been stocked at much lower numbers than kings.  The fin clip study demonstrated conclusively that Kings spawned in the Salmon River returned as adults.  That would mean that if DEC stocked X number of Kings, and Y number recruited from natural reproduction, we now have X+Y number of Kings, and except in Bizarro world in Superman,  that would be an increase. 
 
"Ploy" implies some sort of conspiracy.  I have spoken to Steve LaPan, director for Great Lakes Fisheries for NYSDEC, and we agree that the fastest way to get the king salmon out of Lake Ontario would not be to reduce stocking, but rather increase it to the point where the alewife did collapse.  If anyone were desiring to get the King out of Lake Ontario,  but the Fish Community Objectives are pretty clear, and the king is top dog in that document, if anyone took the time to read it.
 
First hand knowledge got us from the stone ax to the metal axe, which you might still be using to cut your firewood without science, which is how we get to devices like chainsaws.  (and that is a metaphor.)
#73
hot tuna
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 5599
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/07 07:04:45 (permalink)
Lucky13
hot tuna
My scientific knowledge is . The dec stocks 2 and 3 year old catch and release trout in a river section that does not winter over due to anchor ice. On a stream I fished for 50 years. The sections that are bait and keep, produce the largest, best fishery.
This leads me to believe, something is wrong. My dollars are being wasted on science instead of first hand knowledge.

I was not at all referring to the Ausable although I seriously doubt that anchor ice totally eliminates all the fish every winter in any section of that river, or Fran would not have been finding the fish he caught, and I would never be seeing the hogs that live under the flume.  But of course I'm not up there in the dead of winter ( and neither are you, you're walking around on Lake George.)


Yes I've been to the ausable in the dead of winters to experience the anchor ice firsthand. Lived there for a few years as well. The areas of c& r get the largest amount of anchor ice. Those shallow pockets and pools literally close up from the bottom.
Remember before c& r or 2 year old stocking there was a section called " trophy water " it started at monument falls. You'd be hard pressed to catch a 12" fish besides the 8" stockies when the size limit was 9".

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
#74
Lucky13
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1849
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/10/26 04:40:48
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/07 07:20:14 (permalink)
On my honeymoon I caught and released a 24".brown in Monument Falls, best fish of the trip, which also included 19" and 18" browns and a 17" rainbow in the Pocket water below Wilmington.  And, it being my honeymoon, I only got to fish a few times for a couple of hours, lots of gift shops in Lake Placid and other sites to see.
 
I streamgaged for the USGS ( as part of a coop with them, not as a Federal employee) in Irondequoit Creek, which experiences large amounts of anchor ice.  The stream has continued to improve as a natural brown trout stream throughout.  Fish swim away from conditions they don't like, and yes, on the Ausable there are places where they can't return upstream, but that's how the big fish end up in Lake Everest and down in Ausable Forks. 
 
Also, NYS Stocks 1 year old ( 8-9") and 2 yr old (12-14") trout.  Larger fish stocked in the Ausable come from other sources, like the Essex County hatchery, or the local Chamber of Commerce, or so said Mr Betters in his books.
#75
r3g3
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1419
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2014/03/24 16:42:10
  • Location: wallingford ct/pulaski
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/09 17:54:27 (permalink)
Got in with my son midday on Monday- We each hooked up once lower mid- TONS of fisherfolks and VERY VERY few fish.- only saw a half dozen in 5 hours.
Chucker folks doing poor to  moderate in deep holes where they can snag to their hearts content.
Only runners are singles - in 3 days never saw more than one at a time.
Tuesday went upper mid to a very favored spot and it was one of the poorest days of fishing I have experienced on the Sr since 1985. Did I mention TONS of fisherfolk.
Again the occasional ( one an hour or so) single fast runner seen.
This AM back to lower mid and we saw perhaps 4 fish in 5 hours.
Chuckers running after fish  picking some as they run past and I personally believe thats what is being reported by most venues as a slow pick or ya gotta move to find them.
LOTS of fisherfolks and frankly have seen more action on the odd occasional late August.
Kinda too late IMHO for a run this year-when ya talk to the right folks- never had more than a trickle.
Hate to be so negative but if this keeps up Pulaski is gonna change.
I will be there if even one fish runs - but most wont.
Satisfied -yea- I love it there fish or not-
My trip last month, however , was very slow but a bit productive- This was awful fishing lol.
My November trip is on a real big hold.
post edited by r3g3 - 2019/10/09 18:24:12
#76
pensfan1
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2074
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2004/01/13 15:58:23
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/09 18:36:50 (permalink)
Do they plan on a release anytime soon?
#77
Clint S
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 3514
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2011/04/17 20:18:35
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/09 18:50:12 (permalink)
So I will concur I hit 2 spots. My normal spot hat fish ,but not huge numbers. Just enough to get by. I had two Ho's hit pink egg patterns and a king hit a bunny leach. Several other liners got on too. Mid river fish were sparse and holed up or on redds. The folks having ''luck'' are the '' hunters '' ripping them off redds or slowly taking them out of accessible holes in the am. The river is only packed with people not fish.

The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb


#78
r3g3
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1419
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2014/03/24 16:42:10
  • Location: wallingford ct/pulaski
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/09 19:03:41 (permalink)
Whenever I  FISHED someone would usually RUN over and start slashing below me.
They think you see something and are trying for it.
Guy came between my son and I who were standing bout 25 feet apart to do that.
Crossed his line a few times and he- and a fish- left.
Combat fishing.
 
Never see this idiocy anyplace but the SR- worse when its slow.
 
I dont believe its a question of water levels or temps at this mid Oct time. IMHO their body clock says SPAWN and they gotta go.
Just very very few going lol.
post edited by r3g3 - 2019/10/09 19:09:13
#79
hot tuna
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 5599
  • Reward points: 0
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/09 20:10:33 (permalink)
Thanks for the report guys.

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
#80
Lucky13
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1849
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/10/26 04:40:48
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/10 08:00:27 (permalink)
r3g3
 
My November trip is on a real big hold.




While reports of steelhead in the Lake have been pretty good all summer, the last "problem year", they were doing well in the lake and got into the river pretty well, and then  went belly up.  Most years, most of the kings have gone belly up by November, and you really don't want the ones that remain, even if it is a late run.  But next Monday IS Columbus Day, if there are big numbers to come they had better hurry up!
 
Sorry to have missed you, the Doc moved me to Stage 2, which is moving the finger almost all the time I am awake, to break the tendon free from the scar tissue, said if I can keep it clean and dry I can " resume normal activities."  2Bob says there is nothing "normal" about me or my activities!   I could barely move the thing after keeping it immobilized for almost 4 weeks, but after 2 days I have almost 50% of the range of  motion back, I could hold a rod, but I'm not sure what all the casting would do to it, repetitive motions are still verboten, and I worry about a fall, as injuring it before I get it totally moving would end recovery.  If you still come up in November, maybe we will cross paths.  2B was up there Tuesday, but came home early as the crowd was depressing.
 
#81
r3g3
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1419
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2014/03/24 16:42:10
  • Location: wallingford ct/pulaski
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/10 08:05:57 (permalink)
Glad your healing.
Not holding much hope for Fall Steel. Didnt knowingly see any -which is rare as there always seem a few mixed in this time of year.
Then again didnt see much to mix in with lol.
Some of the fish blasting up may have been Hos but the fish I could readily ID were all Kings.
Some Hos mixed in at the full up hatchery.
Estuary looked empty Wed. around noon.
post edited by r3g3 - 2019/10/10 08:10:39
#82
Lucky13
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1849
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/10/26 04:40:48
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/10 09:26:48 (permalink)
Its almost enough to make me think about taking up wing shooting.  But it is my trigger finger that's mucked up! 
 
DSR yesterday reported nearly no action, and even after a note about activity in the estuary Tuesday dusk, pretty dead yesterday.   They boxed them all in the Lake!
#83
r3g3
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1419
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2014/03/24 16:42:10
  • Location: wallingford ct/pulaski
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/10 10:51:12 (permalink)
Happens every year- Biggest fish EVER--its black  with fish off of the river mouth--HUGE schools being marked on fish finders.
Then we get whatever we get.
#84
pafisher
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 2998
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2002/08/15 11:14:30
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/10 13:37:20 (permalink)
From these reports I can be happy that I was there when I was,now if we could only get some STEADY RAIN to get the tribs flowing out west I can get enthused about fishing for Steel out west in Erie and Ohio.
#85
r3g3
Pro Angler
  • Total Posts : 1419
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2014/03/24 16:42:10
  • Location: wallingford ct/pulaski
  • Status: offline
Re: Salmon trip 2019/10/10 14:08:44 (permalink)
This weekend is Circus time on the SR-all fisher folks and darned few fish.
Could turn into a cage match here and there when expectations confront  reality  lol.
 
DSR is doing their best- but in the era of honest reporting, even they aren't posting any real positive stuff.
Thinking the run is over- barring a much appreciated miracle.
Mid Oct has happened in the past - but rarely.
 
Ho and Steel reports have been around and likely refer to a possible pod or two but no real Ho run either from what I have read and frankly Steel have seemed to be coming but not in numbers either.
Up in 'my spot' Hos and Steel have been commonplace over the course of time NOW- not now though lol.
Neither was represented on any rope that I saw over 3 days either.
 
NOT happy bout sounding so darned negative.
post edited by r3g3 - 2019/10/10 20:12:26
#86
Page: < 123 Showing page 3 of 3
Jump to: