Motor problems

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Porktown
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2019/06/24 09:54:08 (permalink)

Motor problems

Let me know if anyone has any thoughts on this?
 
My 15hp Evinrude (1994) started having issues at the beginning of this year.  First started as bogging a little bit.  Then progressed to hard to start.  Then to start and run for a few seconds.  
 
I was convinced that it was fuel related, as it would start, but sputter out.  I replaced all fuel lines, bulb, connectors, new fuel pump, new plugs, and cleaned the carb (twice).  Second time I used those small jet poker tools and let the un-assembled pieces sit in carb cleaner, then put back together with all new gaskets.  Same old, not wanting to stay running.  Yes, I put in new fuel and new oil.  Tried running Seafoam through it, before the only wanting to run a few second issue, which I thought cleared everything up (seemed to run great, until I hit the lake)...
 
Now, it is just not even wanting to start.  So, I am guessing in the ignition system.
 
The compression is reading 105 for each cylinder.
 
The spark plug tester light doesn't seem to be coming on for either plug.  Although, it is a pull start, so not sure if that makes a difference with the tester.
 
I am trying to test the stator, power pack and coil.  Looking online, the testing of the power pack requires additional tools (peak voltage adapter) to the multi-meter.  I can't find an accurate way to test the coil online.  I have some troubleshooting things from CDI Electronics to try, that says "if this, then most likely this".
 
I took the power pack and coil out to get a good visual inspection.  Both have some wear on the soft side, but don't look bad.  The connector on the power pack didn't seem to have any corrosion, which I had read could be an issue.  The spark plug wires seem to be fine when hooked up to the multi meter.
 
Let me know if anyone has any suggestions from the symptoms above?  
 
I pretty much lost the spring bite due to this.  Summer fishing is usually not the best, but still stress relieving to get out.  
 
Anyone know a good outboard mechanic in the Pgh area?  
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    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/24 12:22:52 (permalink)
    Geeeez Pork, that sucks. I dont know about botor moat Mechanics in the Burgh area but there is a respected service at Orangeville, a stones throw west of Shenango River Lake maybe 40 (+/-) minutes to your north.

    I'll stand corrected but I'm thinkin "sputtering" is not a sign of a bad coil or power pack. I'm thinkin instant death in either of those cases with the exception of a loose connection or bad wiring of course. However, that being said, it is possible that your motor may have been firing on one cylinder before the second coil died.

    Also, pulling sparkplug wires to check for spark..... instant death to power packs.

    Anyways neighbor wishing you luck getting back on the water.

    Resele Marine Inc

    8250 OH-609, Orangeville, OH 44453
    (330) 772-7722

    https://g.co/kgs/mKbDuM
    post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2019/06/24 12:24:47

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
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    #2
    CAPTAIN HOOK
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/24 15:15:53 (permalink)
    Not sure Pork .....I just paid big bucks to have a new power pack put on my Evinrude 10 hp. 4 stroke (2001). Seems that's was a major problem with those motors that year anyway. Pymy Boat Sales said parts are scarce for them too because of all the blown power pack issues.  Kind of lost my trust for Evinrude marine engines after hearing and seeing all that.  Maybe yours is something else , mine just quit and wouldn't start. My Johnson motor is running fine ! 
    post edited by CAPTAIN HOOK - 2019/06/24 15:18:10
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    pensfan1
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/24 17:33:57 (permalink)
    I dont know what your budget is like but rather than a fix maybe beat the bushes for a preowned 4stroke. Say 10 years old or less. You have 16'er correct?
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    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/24 18:30:19 (permalink)
    Hey Capt the gooder part about the Johnson Motor is, while Bombardier no longer produces the motor after buying out OMC when they went belly up, parts are still available. Dont now about now but at one time, Evenrude and Johnson parts interchanged.

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
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    EMitch
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/25 06:39:57 (permalink)
    I get my Merc parts here: www.boats.net, but they have OEM parts for all makes and models.

    Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent.
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    Porktown
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/25 08:25:41 (permalink)
    After more research, I went back to investigate the fuel route again.  From what I had read, if the motor is starting, even for a little bit, then it is not an ignition issue.  I completely drained the system of any old fuel.  Then made up a brand new gallon batch.  I put a few ounces in a spray bottle and used to just see if I could get started, which it did.  I tinkered with a few other things and wallah.  It is purring like a cat!!!  Well, a 2 stroke, shaky old cat with gas issues...  Let's see if it keeps purring once I am on the water.  I am pretty sure the oil that I bought (gallon of Pennsoil) was tainted.  Seems to be the common factor.  Now I have 10 gallons of tainted fuel mix, that I need to find a place to dispose.
     
    Trust me, I have considered 4 stroke many times.  But they hold their value very well, and people aren't looking to sell.  From feedback from this site and others, 20hp would likely only gain me 2-3mph over my 15hp on my boat.  Just too heavy to get on plane with a 20hp, likely need 30hp to plane.  I am hoping to get another 2-3 years out of my boat, then re-evaluate what my priorities are.  Half of me wants a Bass Tracker Pro 16 with 20HP (or similar), to get me around at a decent clip and still stay relatively stable.  The other half wants a 20' pontoon boat to fish from a floating living room and able to take out multiple people at a time.  Right now, I have 17' and the stability of something 20'.  I can jump up and down on my boat and you can barely feel it move.  It has pretty high gunnels, that works great for keeping kids and people with declining balance, inside the boat.  It seemed to take a lot of aluminum/plywood to make it stable and securing people in, and tops out at 10mph when alone and 7mph with 3 adults.  If a 20hp would get me on plane, I would plan to keep this boat for the long haul. 
    #7
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/25 09:18:42 (permalink)
    Good for you Pork now go git them fish.

    Gotta agree with the 15 to 20 HP upgrade. Not much difference in speed for my botor moat either so not worth the cost, in my book.

    Down sizing to a 16 ft (minimal I'd go) single console Tracker with a 20 HP aint a bad idea. Heck, I'd gain back a half a stall in my garage too.

    Pontoon aint a bad idea either. Heck a guy could make a few bucks takin an entire Amish family fishin.
    post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2019/06/25 09:30:01

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
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    psu_fish
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/25 09:43:03 (permalink)
    I been buying the SuperTech Outboard Engine oil at Wal-Mart. You can buy it by the pint, if you don't run the boat a lot.
     
    It will probably never happen, but I wish PA would up the HP limit to 25. Might be impossible to get Ohio to do the same for Pymy, but Yamaha came out with a 25hp 4-stroke, that is only 126 lbs. for 15" model or 143 lbs. for the 20" model. 25 HP is optimal for most 16 footers that are common on Pymy, Wilhelm, Arthur. 25 HP will get you up on plane, without flying down the lake at unsafe speeds like a bass boat does. I think every major brand sells 25 motors as well. But the flip side, guys will be trying to put 35-40HP motors on boats with 25 stickers.
     
     
    #9
    Porktown
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/25 10:37:40 (permalink)
    Got to see if it actually works on the water, but I am encouraged.  The best that it has run in over a month.
     
    I used that SuperTech synthetic on my lawn tractor and seemed to work great.  I like the price too!
     
    Not sure if it was a bad batch or someone decided to mess with my oil/fuel.  I have used Pennsoil before with no issues.  Disadvantage of not keeping it in my garage.  If I end up with a 16', it will live in my garage.  Probably a few years off for that, unless I find a deal that I can't pass up.  This boat fits the dual use as a fishing/family cruiser right now, better than a bass boat.  In a few years, decide if bass boat, pontoon or just upgrade mine.
     
    Agree, not worth the cost or hassle of selling my other motor, to gain a few mph.  If it would get me on plane, I would be happy as a heck with my set up.
     
     
    #10
    ATTE1
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/25 16:12:44 (permalink)
    Every fall when I am done fishing, I completely empty gas tank in my boat...use left over gas for weedwacker or chainsaw...in spring have clean dry tank for fresh gas, amsoil saber outboard mix and 2 oz of seafoam per gallon...run this all boating season and repeat...never have any fuel issues ever...if you don' t treat or store this ehtynol gas in you motor you are asking for trouble...only takes a little time to keep motor running great for years on end...just my 2 cents
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    EMitch
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/25 19:38:16 (permalink)
    Today's gasoline only has a shelf life of about 30 days without any conditioners. I use Pennzoil Synthetic two stroke oil in my Merc, and every 6 gallon tank gets a couple of ounces of Star Tron. If due to weather conditions and I can't get out, (like friggin' continuous rain and high water), as it ages I dump all of into my truck and run it out. Truck don't mind a little 50:1 mix, don't even smoke or misfire. Note that fuel pumps say gas may contain up to 10% ethanol, but the Gov and EPA are pushin' hard to up the percentage. Ethanol is a killer. It eats rubber hoses, causin' them to deteriorate and put granulated rubber into the carb bowl and beyond. In addition, ethanol is 25% less efficient than gasoline, so for every 6 gallon tank, ya got a couple of quarts of garbage in the gas, and ethanol, (which is alcohol), attracts water, so if you've ever had a boat motor or lawnmower carb apart, you know what's causing that whitish lookin' salve that gums up the works. I'll say it again. StarTron is some great stuff, and it ain't nearly as expensive as some of the other stabilizers.
    As an aside, if I had the jing, I'd have a brand spankin' new injected Merc 20HP 4 stroke tiller with PT&T on my boat and put the 45HP Classic 50 up for sale. It's my belief that a 20 would plane my boat 'cause the heavy Lunds that we use up in Canada run great with a 25 Yami on the back, and those boats sit out year round and I'd think the level flotation is water logged, plus the weight of two big guys in there. If I remember correctly, the curb weight of my 16' Sylvan Backtroller was around 476 lbs, (a little heavier now since the rebuild with thicker plywood). The boat planes nicely at 17 mph, and I can trim and keep it planed down to 15mph. She'll do 30 with two people at full tilt.

    Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent.
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    treesparrow
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/26 07:26:54 (permalink)
    I go out of my way to buy Ethanol free gas for my boat and outdoor equipment.
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    Porktown
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/26 08:20:46 (permalink)
    I had motor problems about 8-9 years ago.  Asked on here for advice and was told to put Sta-Bil in by about 20 replies (as well as many other much more complex suggestions).  I added that to the gas that I had, and instantly started and ran great since (until this year).  Since that day, I added to all small engine fuel.  By the way, when I cleaned the carburetor, it looked very clean.  Not much residue at all on any of the gaskets or inside.  The bowl had some particles, but no build up.
     
    There is an ethanol free station on 19, near Moraine, that I think will be getting my business.  Probably cheaper than adding Sta-Bil to every batch, although probably still add something.  I will plan to burn up all fuel at the end of the season.  This definitely started at the beginning of the year, and just got worse every time out.
     
    The remaining old oil, old Sta-Bil and old fuel are getting recycled.  Not worth the headache that it caused to try to burn off.  Maybe try in my push mower, that I use to hit the spots my lawn tractor can't get.  It is 20 years old and ready for a new one regardless.  Too many small rubber pieces in the fuel to add to my truck or anything expensive, from trying to put my hose straight in.  That ethanol melts the outside layer of the fuel line, almost instantly.  Surprised they use that material.
     
    I took the boat out for a spin on the river yesterday evening.  Ran great for about 10 minutes then sputtered out...  I was so bummed.  Then I noticed that my primer bulb wasn't hard, and pumped a few times.  Ran great for the next 1/2 hour.  I tried trolling speed, idle, mid, way on, and all seemed fine.  Stopped for a little and started right back up.  Not sure why it didn't keep flowing, but still the best that it has run since April.
     
    Does everyone use an inline fuel filter on their fuel line?  I removed mine, per advice from a guy that seemed to know what he was talking about.  It didn't fix my issues.  I am thinking to add one back in.  Seeing how much damage that ethanol does, and how many particles I see in my lawn tractor fuel filter, I want one on it.
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    PAJAY
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/26 19:04:38 (permalink)
    "I took the boat out for a spin on the river yesterday evening.  Ran great for about 10 minutes then sputtered out...  I was so bummed.  Then I noticed that my primer bulb wasn't hard, and pumped a few times.  Ran great for the next 1/2 hour.  I tried trolling speed, idle, mid, way on, and all seemed fine.  Stopped for a little and started right back up.  Not sure why it didn't keep flowing, but still the best that it has run since April.""
     last year this something happened to me cost me 200.00 to figure out cause the motor guy couldn't cause the motor ran great at his place he also replaced my 2 day old plugs . what I found was the hose from my  tank to motor was total eaten away inside lucky my filter on motor caught all the gummy gunk from hose before it went to carb . new hose haven't had a problem since . 
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    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/26 23:08:39 (permalink)
    Several common problems for losing prime.

    Bad O-ring at fuel tank. Pick-up tube in fuel tank loose or developed a crack/hole. (good time to inspect the strainer screen, if the tube has one) Clamps at connectors need tightened/replaced.

    Poor performance can be attributed to an "air leak". An engine may idle or run fine at slow speed but run poorly at top end.

    Likewise, fuel tanks must be vented properly. Blocked vents wont allow atmosperic pressure in, to push the fuel out.


    Many folks take great care with the fuel they buy but dont give a second thought to the supply lines. Some real garbage on the market.
    post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2019/06/26 23:11:59

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
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    Porktown
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/27 08:16:09 (permalink)
    Thanks BT.  I will check those out.  The whole system is new.  Tank, fuel line (ethanol rated, although not submersion rated, which I found out the hard way...), primer bulb, connectors, internal fuel lines, fuel pump and rebuilt carburetor.  So, I would assume any losing prime, is more operator error, rather than wear and tear on the components!  I'm close to figuring it out, I think...
     
    Thanks all for the input.
     
    #17
    DarDys
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/27 09:14:55 (permalink)
    I’m not up to speed on boats any longer, but during my tournament days when I worked for a few boat dealerships, under certain weather conditions (typically hot and humid) the primer bulb would go soft and lose its prime (kind of like a not completely filled plastic gas can swelling or collapsing with temperature and humidity changes). We learned to squeeze the bulb as a first try item if the engine didn’t keep running.

    I know that wasn’t your original issue, but it is one of those pilot error things we tend to forget about.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

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    #18
    Porktown
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/27 11:12:48 (permalink)
    Definitely the first thing that I will check if it happens again.  
     
    Completely makes sense, with the example of the plastic cans.
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    EMitch
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/06/27 19:44:15 (permalink)
    I bought a new Moeller fuel tank and Moeller hose and primer assembly through www.wholesalemarine a few years ago, and I've come to the conclusion that Moeller products are extremely inferior to OEM parts. The fuel tank lid, (new and mandated by the Federal Government, the EPA),  is supposed to vent but it don't. A full tank of gas when it's warm out will swell the tank up, and the fuel pump on my Merc actually began imploding the tank before it started runnin' bad starvin' for fuel. I have to keep the lid a little loose for venting and operation. Additionally, I was burnin' across Shenango when the engine started to die, and I pumped the ball furiously and it came back to life. (Bad karma). Then one day it quit on the river, and it turned out that the tether on the fuel cap came off and got sucked into the pickup tube, (that part went in the garbage can at the launch). I'm gettin' ready to spend the big bucks for a new Merc tank and fuel supply hose.
     
    PS: You never get what you pay for, but usually, the more you pay, the better the equipment.

    Liberalism always generates the exact opposite of its stated intent.
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    ZelieSam
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/07/01 09:13:27 (permalink)
    psu_fishBut the flip side, guys will be trying to put 35-40HP motors on boats with 25 stickers.

     
    Guys already doing this with 20hp stickers.  Some jackass on Wilhelm in the spring joyriding around at full speed with his stupid wife in the fishing area with a giant engine, looked like a 35 Evinrude.  If I only had some C4 with me.  >:(
     
    PorktownThere is an ethanol free station on 19, near Moraine, that I think will be getting my business.

     
    There's a station main street Zelie that sells it also.  
     
    PorktownDoes everyone use an inline fuel filter on their fuel line?

     
    I installed one when we rebuilt my boat.  Could NOT get the thing to work despite multiple tries and help.  It just refused to feed fuel to the engine.  Pulled it in disgust and hucked it.  Bad enough getting fuel to flow with a straight shot, who needs that extra BS.  And since I've never actually had issues with water in my gas tank... /shrug.  Sounds like you may want to just replace the whole deal tank to motor.  Those plastic balls are cheap garbage anyway.  
     
    You haven't missed much fishing though.  When it wasn't raining (like yesterday) it was blowing 20.  Nobody wants to fish in that monsoon BS.  
     
    Finally I have to recommend the pontoon.  A joy to throw a net from, and you can pack a ton of baitwells and other gear on them to make life easy and fun.  Towing them sucks a bit, but not as bad as people make it out.  Generally a bunch of bargains to pick from every fall and spring around here.  
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    Porktown
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/07/02 10:50:43 (permalink)
    Sam - 
    Not sure if you have ever taken apart your fuel pump, but there is a screen in there, that catches the bigger debris.  When talking to a guy that works on motors, he told me to remove the inline filter, and that screen would catch most stuff.  Although, there is other smaller stuff that could get through, that could definitely clog a jet.  The can that I have, also has a filter where it pulls the gas from.  But I still would like another area of protection.  Rebuilding the carb is no fun.  Just getting the thing off of the motor, without dropping one of the nuts is a challenge!
     
    If I go the toon route, I would strongly consider getting a slip for it.  Pull up and go.  But that is pretty expensive and the marina opens so late and closes so early in the year.  Passing up a lot of prime fishing.  I'm working on the kids to fish a bit more, but not the passion that I had/have.  That would be the only way that I could justify the cost.  I have a feeling, if I had a boat that could do 20mph, I would have my kids a bit more interested to at least go out and ride from spot to spot.
    #22
    ZelieSam
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/07/02 12:12:13 (permalink)
    Yeah, pontoon isn't your jam then.  If you get 5mph you are stylin' in a 20' pontoon.  But for a lazy, slow moving super stable living room experience it can't be beat.  They move okay if you slap a 70+ on there (we've rented them like that in Florida) but that limits you too much around here.  It's a real pickle in PA to find one good boat.  
    #23
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/07/02 13:01:50 (permalink)
    Pork I have been running an external inline filter on my gas line for two years now. Same type of filter you find on riding mowers and lawn tractors.

    Not sure if location of primer bulb (before/after) will make for problems. Mine is installed before the bulb Also, my filter is above the onboard fuel tank.

    I run my 15 at idle speeds while trolling and have had no issues as well as running at top end. (7.5 mph😢)

    No problems with the 50 running either.

    post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2019/07/02 13:08:44

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    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #24
    Porktown
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/07/02 13:22:51 (permalink)
    BTDT, that looks like the same filter that I had on mine (for a day or two)...  
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    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/07/02 16:12:40 (permalink)
    Walmart special Pork. What was up that you removed the filter??

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #26
    Porktown
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/07/02 19:19:06 (permalink)
    The same issues that I had.  Definitely wasn't the filter.  I was told by a guy that works on boat motors to take it off, and my motor would fire right up...  It didn't, of course.  I should have kept it, but it made it in a garbage bag with a bunch of other stuff.  Basically just tossed that $5 or whatever cost, right in the garbage.
    #27
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/07/02 20:55:13 (permalink)
    Pork I can't remember (dam oldtimers) if your motor is 2 or 4 cycle but heck, if you've been running this type of inline filter in the past, I can't see why it would be the problem now. My motors are 4 cycle so I have no experience with running 2 cycle mix throuh a filter of this type.

    Anyway, it sounds like you have the problem figured out and that's the good thing.

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #28
    Porktown
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/07/03 08:17:30 (permalink)
    2 cycle.  I had something on my old hose, not sure if inline filter or not.  It was metal and old...  One of the reasons that I replaced the hose, ball, connectors, etc.  If it was a filter, it was likely pretty clogged, but still seemed to move fuel.
     
    I had read around about using those same Wallyworld filters on 2 cycle and people use with no issues.  The filter isn't nearly fine enough to mess with the oil mix.
     
    Right now, I am more concerned about it messing with the pressure into the fuel pump, which it shouldn't.  I plan to run without for a few trips, then debate to put one back in.  
     
    I was out on Saturday morning.  It gave me a little issue at the dock, which I am convinced was just the big man upstairs having fun with me...  I got it going and ran fine the rest of the day.
    #29
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: Motor problems 2019/07/03 09:28:34 (permalink)
    Nice to hear ya got out Saturday and the motor gave you no issues once started.

    Not sure what the metal thingy would be ya removed, maybe a check valve or sumpthin.

    Ya say ya replaced hose, connectors, & primer bulb. Did ya make up the fuel line yourself or was it pre-assembled? Sometimes the checkvalve in those new primer bulbs tend to 'stick' till they been used and very important, the direction they're installed.

    Lastly and most importantly, did ya get to wet a line while ya was out Saturday?

    Good times and tight lines.
    🇺🇸Happy and safe 4th.🇺🇸


    Oh yeah.... I know about that guy upstairs, but ya know what they say, "all work and no play" 😁

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #30
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