Helpful ReplyThe Erie Fishing Diary

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genieman77
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/01 06:31:42 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby FiveMilePete 2018/11/01 18:30:47
I don't think one has to be a rocket surgeon to get a fair guesstimate of repeat spawners
 
Look in the holes ...the vast majority  of the fish are cookie cutter size within a couple pounds .
The repeat spawners will be 3-4 pounds larger...there's just never been a lot 
Maybe 10%??...maybe
 
I'm told by smArt people the majority that do survive the gauntlet of anglers and riggers of spawning to drop back, die in the lake that summer
 
Life is just too tough in small, shallow, shale bottom  PA creeks
 
Best reason for C&R is just what my esteemed colleague  Pete said
More fish released, more opportunity to catch that season
 
if you eat these foul tasting things...
Take all you're allowed and enjoy
 
'cuz truth is, you prob'ly did that poor fish a favor by ending it's 6-8 month long  misery
 
 
.L.T.A.
 
 
#61
jat1007
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/01 07:57:05 (permalink)
i agree the amount of fish seems to be back on the rise ... i like to think a mild winter helps the following years runs 
 
i dont feel many fish do make it back to return spawn.... how many
ten + ponders do you see out of erie?... a few but who knows if they are returners or not... the small shallow creeks are just tough to survive the winter and the mad house of people.   
in some of the larger tributaries i see larger fish
 
does new york stock a different strain of steelhead?  i spent a few days there about two weeks ago and their steelhead have a different look than our PA steel
 
in regards to the land... i know i certainly wouldn't buy a house next to a highway and complain about the traffic.... 
 
most of the property that is posted on elk and walnut is not near or visible from a house or a structure... but i understand that land owners dont want a bunch of people they dont know on their property. 
 
 


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Kokanee Killer
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/01 09:08:35 (permalink)
FiveMilePete
mike55
 PFBC says "Let Them Grow - Unlike Pacific Salmon, Rainbow trout (steelhead), brown trout and Atlantic salmon are repeat spawners. Releasing these fish will provide them the opportunity to grow larger, improving future fishing opportunities for you and other anglers."
 
Then they give a 12 inch steelhead limit. I don't get it.
 
 


I'm guessing that very few, if any actually spawn, and smolts return.  
And as far as coming back, bigger?  That's a long shot too.  The only reason to release, realistically, is to give someone else the opportunity to catch the steelhead again.

"Documentation of successful natural reproduction in Pennsylvania is rare. Self-sustaining populations of Rainbow Trout are found only in a few scattered streams. "   From PA Fish and Boat Commission Website

I'd add very, very rare.   At least in the PA. creeks.   
well said sir well said




I have become comfortably numb
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mike55
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/01 12:53:00 (permalink)
DarDys
mike55


Not to mention large parts of elk got posted again. You know... Cause of all the garbage us anglers leave behind. Has to be "all the garbage"... Couldn't be the fact that people buy property and just like to be selfish.


Can I set up a bar-b-que in your yard?

Can I come in and watch TV in your house?

Can I use your vehicle?

If the answer is “no” then you are just buying something to be selfish.

If you want the access to private property, feel free to buy it, insure it, police it, and pay taxes on it.

Your fishing license does not include the privilege to trespass.

Full disclosure — I don’t own stream property in Erie.

 
I get it, they own the property and have every right to post it. PFBC should have bought all that land years ago. But you can still own something and share it like many do in Erie. You are fishing on a lot of peoples property when you are up there. The difference is they are not a**ho*es and let people fish it and are typically friendly. They don't walk a mile from their house to yell at people fishing in their hole.
 
In some cases you are right. There are actually properties where you are literally in someones back yard fishing. The funny thing is most of those properties are not posted. For some reason it's the property in the middle of Elk with 40ft cliffs that gets posted with houses no where in sight. Must be all the garbage we leave behind or the fact that I keep trying to watch TV through someones window while I BBQ in their yard.
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mike55
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/01 12:57:40 (permalink)
Reproduction rates are very low in Erie tribs. Lets just say its 0%. Doesn't matter.
 
A 2yr old fish will return to the lake when it warms up and then try to come back to spawn again yr 4 or 5 even bigger. You keep stacking this and you will have a population of 2, 3, 4, and 5yr fish returning for the first or even second time during runs.
#65
DarDys
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/01 12:57:52 (permalink)
Does the word “liability “ mean anything to you?

If someone trips and falls on your property, they can sue. It doesn’t matter how far from your house.

They may not win, but you are going to spend a lot of time, money, and effort to defend yourself.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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genieman77
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/01 15:14:29 (permalink)
jat1007
 
 
does new york stock a different strain of steelhead?  i spent a few days there about two weeks ago and their steelhead have a different look than our PA steel
 
 
 




 
yep
Ohio too
(though the early fall run in Conny are PA fish, as Pa and Ohio both stock Conny)
 
 
PA's fish have been described as a "mutt fish"
they've been milking and raising their own fish for so long, it's kinda it's "own breed" now
and typically a pound or two lighter
 
..L.T.A.
 
 
 
 
#67
fisherofmen376
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/01 16:55:38 (permalink)
DarDys
Does the word “liability “ mean anything to you?

If someone trips and falls on your property, they can sue. It doesn’t matter how far from your house.

They may not win, but you are going to spend a lot of time, money, and effort to defend yourself.


Again, yes! Mike55 u mad bro? Calling landowners aholes just for exercising their rights!

"Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
Matthew 4:19
#68
genieman77
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/01 17:50:07 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby FiveMilePete 2018/11/01 18:36:18
mike55
 
 
A 2yr old fish will return to the lake when it warms up and then try to come back to spawn again yr 4 or 5 even bigger. You keep stacking this and you will have a population of 2, 3, 4, and 5yr fish returning for the first or even second time during runs.




 
do two year olds spawn?
I've always thought the jacks followed looking for easy egg meals ??
 
They should be released ...especially and in particular the Spring run jacks.
they have by far the greatest chance of returning next season as mature 3 yO's
 
 
where we disagree, is I think we could release every steelie caught, and we'll still never see many 4 YO's ...and 5 YO "threepeat" spawners would be as rare as  unicorn tears
 
just can't compare west coast steel (where repeat and even threepeat  does happen)  with Erie steel
Their  environments are  worlds apart 
 
there's nothing "natural" about masses of big non native fish in tiny, shallow, shale rock creeks
and nothing conducive to their survival after 8 months trying to spawn in that environment
 
by spring thaw, 4/5ths of 'em look half dead and reel in like dishrags
tiny Pa creeks are too tough on 'em to ever see much repeats
 
that's what I've observed anyway FWIW
 
..L.T.A.
 
post edited by genieman77 - 2018/11/01 17:53:58
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FiveMilePete
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/01 18:39:03 (permalink)
DarDys
Does the word “liability “ mean anything to you?

If someone trips and falls on your property, they can sue. It doesn’t matter how far from your house.

They may not win, but you are going to spend a lot of time, money, and effort to defend yourself.

Isn't that why you have liability insurance?     You might not even have to go to court.  
#70
rsquared
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/01 21:33:06 (permalink)
Not to get this thread back on track or anything about the good old days of Erie steelheading but . . .
 
When did yinz have that first epic day on the tribs - in your mind at the time?
 
For me it was around 2005 or 6 I think.  


I had finally learned how to catch a few steelhead pretty consistently, with the help of a good friend who took me on several trips and showed me the particulars of size 16-20 hooks, fluoro leader, Blackbird split shot and a few other small details that make a big difference.  
 
It was pretty close to Thanksgiving, and I found myself on a small trib, which is still a favorite for my sons and I.  When there are good numbers of fish in it, which has become less frequent over the past 6-8 years, fishing can just be ridiculously good.  
 
I got to the honey hole relatively early in the morning, and there were two fly guys there, who kindly invited this bait chucker to jump in and have some fun.  As the morning went on and we talked and laughed over many hookups and fish landed, I learned that they were two guys who hung out here a lot - skip and TT.  Been a long, long time since I saw anything from TT on here, and skip may still lurk but rarely posts in the last several years.
 
I had just the right drift in the right spot, at the head of the pool, and I couldn't even begin to guess how many hookups I had.  I quit counting after I landed 10, and I landed several more after that.  I would guess I landed somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25 by early afternoon, and for me, at that time in my steelhead experience, it was by far the best day I had ever had numbers wise.  My previous best was around 8 or so, and that was in a full day of fishing.  
 
 
 
 
#71
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/01 21:42:31 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby FiveMilePete 2018/11/04 23:37:06
In PA, landowners cannot be sued if allowing use for purpose of fishing and hunting. Will automatically be thrown out of court with no need of council.

Factcheck if you dare.

https://conservationtools...nd-Water-Act#heading_3
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2018/11/01 21:46:19

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#72
CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/01 22:12:46 (permalink)
#1 - Some areas on Elk got posted because of a mix of litter and too many people parking.
#2 - Some got posted out of trying to make a buck on leasing out to private individuals or clubs. 
#3 - Some have posted parking areas, but still allow entry to walk in and fish.
 
I understand all land owner scenarios....but I like #3 the best!
 
Would you rather see kids fishing or hanging out in the streets ? Don't post them out !
Love to see a" kids & handicap only" area on a stretch of creek up there !
#73
Kokanee Killer
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/01 23:02:13 (permalink)
genieman77
jat1007
 
 
does new york stock a different strain of steelhead?  i spent a few days there about two weeks ago and their steelhead have a different look than our PA steel
 
 
 




 
yep
Ohio too
(though the early fall run in Conny are PA fish, as Pa and Ohio both stock Conny)
 
 
PA's fish have been described as a "mutt fish"  i believe ny stocks chambers creek strain and manistee both wich i believe are propagated from salmon river hatchery
they've been milking and raising their own fish for so long, it's kinda it's "own breed" now
and typically a pound or two lighter
 
..L.T.A.
 
 
 
 





I have become comfortably numb
#74
Kokanee Killer
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/01 23:03:13 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby genieman77 2018/11/02 04:29:26
ny stocks chambers creek  and manistee strain
 

I have become comfortably numb
#75
genieman77
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/02 06:03:15 (permalink)
rsquared
Not to get this thread back on track or anything
 



welp....
 
my "best" day wasn't a "numbers" day so much as a "confidence" day
and it really wasn't a day, but the first season I felt confident I could  make fish bite with different  presentations   beyond lucky  happenstance of simply dragging junk under a bobber
 
as far as best "numbers" day..
being fortunate to be able  fish a couple three  times a week for years, there has been more than a few  days I simply got lucky to be at the "right place and right time" over a kabillion fish with the right color, shape, size and drift where you could do no wrong 
 
 
one day in particular that stands out was a Thanksgiving Friday in the late '90s at Girardboro park .
Deep, long cut full of fish all to myself .
Literally hooking up every, or every other cast for hours (til I quit fishing )  working up and down the 100ft long deep cut/run   .
Landed over 25, but honestly could of landed more.
Believe it or not, I get bored after a couple/three minutes of playing an average steelie
(it's the take and hook-up that trips my trigger most)
So I start to put HEAVY pressure on them ,  hoping the hook will pull out and/or try to shake 'em off
 
Or it very well may have been the fabled "100 fish day" ...as that was one day they stayed "turned on" where virtually/literally  every drift was a fish on and continued for hours and hours
 
 
..L.T.A.
 
 
 
post edited by genieman77 - 2018/11/02 06:06:26
#76
DarDys
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/02 06:12:30 (permalink)
FiveMilePete
DarDys
Does the word “liability “ mean anything to you?

If someone trips and falls on your property, they can sue. It doesn’t matter how far from your house.

They may not win, but you are going to spend a lot of time, money, and effort to defend yourself.

Isn't that why you have liability insurance?     You might not even have to go to court.  


Do you drive recklessly because you have auto insurance?

Do you take unnecessary risks because you have health insurance?

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
#77
DarDys
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/02 06:17:44 (permalink)
BeenThereDoneThat.
In PA, landowners cannot be sued if allowing use for purpose of fishing and hunting. Will automatically be thrown out of court with no need of council.

Factcheck if you dare.

https://conservationtools...nd-Water-Act#heading_3


Ironically, in order to get a case thrown out of court, one must first go to court (well, sort of), which costs time, effort, and money.

Attorneys don’t work for free.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
#78
dano
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/02 06:55:54 (permalink)
Kokanee Killer
ny stocks chambers creek  and manistee strain
 

 
NY stocks Chamber Creek Strain (Washington) which is a winter run, spring spawning steelhead.
They also stock Domestic Rainbows which have that distinctive bright red lateral stripe in Ontario tribs and as of this year, Erie tribs.
They add Skamania (summer run) to the mix in the Ontario and Catt.
Brown trout were discontinued for the Erie tribs starting this year and replaced with more steelhead and domestic rainbows.
 
 



#79
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/02 08:23:18 (permalink)
DarDys
BeenThereDoneThat.
In PA, landowners cannot be sued if allowing use for purpose of fishing and hunting. Will automatically be thrown out of court with no need of council.

Factcheck if you dare.

https://conservationtools...nd-Water-Act#heading_3


Ironically, in order to get a case thrown out of court, one must first go to court (well, sort of), which costs time, effort, and money.

Attorneys don’t work for free.


Dardy I understand where you are coming from and I see your point but the law was written to prevent a landowner from needing to hire a lawyer. If the landowner opens the land for recreational purposes.

However, landowners collecting a fee, is a different story and one also takes a chance of a suit by "posting" as now the land is no longer open for recreational use.

As you can attest, posting your land does not prevent trespass and there is no law protecting you from trespass
by using "posted signs" only. However, posting does indicate "closed to recreational use" and now opens a different door whether trespass is involved or not if you failed to prevent injury.

Sorry about crashing this board, this topic best for another forum another day.
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2018/11/02 08:31:05

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#80
DarDys
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/02 08:40:37 (permalink)
Agreed.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/02 09:56:48 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby FiveMilePete 2018/11/02 20:43:32
Talking about numbers of fish caught I too was like Genie , after about 20-25 fish caught that was enough for half a day's fishing. The best part to me was moving around the creek and catching fish in different runs and holes. Today on Elk you move ....good luck finding another place to fish !
 
Now I fish areas that have less people and usually fewer fish, but I'm happy landing a couple of fish with lots of room.
 
As far as this year being and epic run ..............lol
I highly doubt that.
post edited by CAPTAIN HOOK - 2018/11/02 11:20:03
#82
mike55
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/03 14:24:08 (permalink)
CAPTAIN HOOK
#1 - Some areas on Elk got posted because of a mix of litter and too many people parking.
#2 - Some got posted out of trying to make a buck on leasing out to private individuals or clubs. 
#3 - Some have posted parking areas, but still allow entry to walk in and fish.
 
I understand all land owner scenarios....but I like #3 the best!
 
Would you rather see kids fishing or hanging out in the streets ? Don't post them out !
Love to see a" kids & handicap only" area on a stretch of creek up there !



You are gonna have to take me and show me where all this litter is thats worthy of posting land over. Next time you guys are in erie look around and actually realize how little littering there is in the public areas. Let alone in the middle of elk with no access. Must be seeing all the pop cans and chip bags people are leaving from bbqing in peoples yards.
#83
CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/03 20:57:49 (permalink)
I said a mix of litter and over parking...try looking at the RR tube area....the parking lanes got posted a few years back because of those two items . It's still OK to walk in so far. 
 
I bagged 10 beer cans and 7 pop cans some dirt bags left last week at a parking area. I'll be sure to take a photo next time and share it !
 
No there isn't a real bad litter problem in most areas, but thanks to people like myself that carry a few garbage bags in my vehicle and take a few minutes to pick up other peoples junk it looks clean. I'd like a nickel for every Styrofoam coffee cup I've picked up over the years fishing...and I don't even drink coffee !  
#84
EMitch
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/03 21:40:46 (permalink)
I haven't been up for 3 or 4 years but last trip on the wall at Walnut, I made two trips to the dumpster just from the section of the wall I was fishing. No excuse for it; the dumpster is right there under the street light at the corner of the marina. Why should we have to clean up after others?

Liberalism is standing on your head and telling the rest of the world that they're upside down.
#85
CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/04 07:22:17 (permalink)
I clean up for one reason .....I hope it doesn't get posted by private land owners. Most fishermen are good overall, but there are a few slobs mixed in that just don't care.
#86
genieman77
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/04 08:33:34 (permalink)
just the shear volume of us is a heavy footprint
 
..L.T.A.
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Kokanee Killer
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/04 08:36:20 (permalink)
yeah thats for sure  like anything else ,,more people  more trash .. when i started my elk creek steelhead days early 90s there was less trash then now...   but also lot less people..  look at your local trout streams now.... lots less trash,,, why.....  lot less people fishin them now

I have become comfortably numb
#88
CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/04 17:41:17 (permalink)
It always amazed me at how inconsiderate some people can be outdoors with litter...... and it's all age groups too. 
 
top group I see mostly in parking areas
 
Styrofoam worm cartons, coffee cups and lids, plastic bottles, cigarette packs, fishing line, empty lure packs,and BTDT's beer cans !....lol
 
I'll admit the worst was when they allowed the cleaning of fish in the lake...Trout Run was a garbage dump of floating fish guts that you could smell a block away....bad is an understatement ! 
#89
genieman77
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Re: The Erie Fishing Diary 2018/11/08 18:52:42 (permalink)
fisherofmen376
And while I'm at it...Jeenee where yinz at???  
Member when you said "bet me" that the run was gonna be less this year?  And others were sayin it hadn't even really started yet because of warm temps?  Well, if you got back in the game you'd see that the run is not less this year....it's lookin very promising, just a little late (maabee epik). 
 
 
 
Start a new page in yer notebook. 
 




don't need to start a new notebook.
right here's good enough
 
have you counted fish in Elk and Da Nut yet?
or still waiting for rain and cooler temps?
 
there's nothing new under the sun
Runs are very predictable by mid/late Sept
 
always has been
always will be
 
 
if there isn't enough fish in Elk and D'Nut now to make it "worth it" to some...may as well stay home.
'cause there's as many fish as there's going to be
 
note, that doesn't mean no more fish are coming ...there certainly are more entering ..just like they have been since Sept.
Just not going to be mass waves to out pace what's being being picked off every day
 
what you see now, is what you can expect til ice over
 
 
 
 
 
..L.T.A.
#90
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