Gordon Setters/bird dogs

I'm not much on bird dogs, but do have beagles.  I can say from my experience that I get out of them what I put into them.....That being said, I have great days in the field with the ones that have less work too.  I think if you can find enough game to train on every once in a while you will have an OK bird dog and a GREAT time......good luck.

don,
 
I agree with Mika here.  If you are looking for an occasional trip out with the dog and won't be putting in the training time, I think you will be better served with a flusher.  Work obedience pretty heavily so that they listen in the field and it will put up some birds.  You won't have a finished retriever that is steady to release, but you'll have a dog that comes when called, sits when told, and can find a few birds.
 
I have a lab.  I put in quite a bit of time with her and she is a great hunter.  She is fairly steady to shot and release.  She isn't steady in a blind since I never hunt from a blind.  She is a bird finding machine and once you learn to always trust your dog you'll get up some birds.
 
Pick your litter from recognized hunting stock, give the dog some bird exposure when it is ready, and do obedience.  Keep in mind your needs when you are picking the litter.  If you don't duck hunt, don't gravitate towards barrel chested labs bred for a blind.  If you don't want a trial dog, find some lines known for hunting, not trialing.
 
A lab would be hard to beat.  My next dog will be a cocker because they are very common over here and there are some great working lines.  A field bred golden is something else too.  They will have a thin build, almost like an irish setter and can run all day.  I'm not a springer fan, but some guys like them.
 
Thanks,
Rick

ORIGINAL: Mikastorm

 
Wow, congratulations.
 
Tell me a bit about your labs.

Thanks for all the input guys.  By all means if there's any other advice out there, keep it coming.
 
Very informative posts, all of you.

D-nymph,
 
There is a lot of good advise in the responses to your post.  Please allow me to add my two cents.
 
In the way of background, I have been refereeing birddog hunting events (not field trials) for over 10 years.  In that period of time, I have had the honor and privilege of walking behind some great dogs.  I have probably refereed just about every imaginable breed except for the really, really rare ones.  In addition, I train and hunt English Pointers. 
 
So here goes.
 
I agree that if you are going to be a casual type bird hunter and trainer, the best choice for pheasants is a Lab.  If all you are looking for is that the dog produce some birds, then if you can keep a Lab in gun range (which isn't a difficult training thing), they will find and flush birds for you.  Labs, because they work off foot scent and not body scent, are also a good choice for PA stocked birds that prefer to run rather than hold to a point.
 
How much further you wish to train the dog is entirely up to you.  If you want to get into retrieving to hand, blind retrieves, multiple retrieves, etc., that will take substantially more effort.
 
That being written, you mentioned that grouse may also be a targeted species.  I have friends that have excellent Labs, but I must say Labs are not the greatest choice for grouse.  You will "hear" far more grouse that you will "see."  You will "see" far more than you will shoot at.  And you will shoot at far more than you will harvest.
 
A pointing dog, which will occasionally bust a grouse (more the nervousness of the bird than any wrong doing on the dog's part), for the most part, they can hold a grouse to a point long enough for you to see most, shoot at most, and bag some.  A good pointer will hold a grouse in such a manner that you can approach the bird at an angle that will give you not only the best opportunity for a shot, but a kill.
 
However, training a pointing dog takes considerably more effort than a Lab.  It is not that they won't find birds or point birds instinctively, the best breedings will.  It is that they must learn to hold a point, point at a distance that won't bump a bird, box in a running bird, etc.  This takes time, effort, and a lot of bird exposure.
 
I currently have a 4 month-old English pointer pup.  He has yet to smell a feather.  To this point it would have done no good.  His hormone level just kicked up to the point that he discovered that he has a nose.  Before last week he would look for things rather than smell for them, so feathers or birds would have been a waste.
 
He won't come in contact with birds until he is 6 months old.  At that point, he will be over carefully planted birds every other day (it takes about 2 hours from start to finish) until October.  In October he will start to have birds shot over him every day in the training field.  By the time actual shots are fired at non-training birds, he will have had at least 300 to 400 birds under his collar (most of which will be re-used by utilizing a hose tether).
 
Now, the dog that results from this will be a competition level finished pointer and that may be way more than you are looking for.
 
But, whether you chose a pointing dog or a flushing dog, be very careful of the breeding.  You mentioned that you had a Gordon.  They are beautiful dogs that unfortunately have had most of the hunting strain bred out of them in favor of show dog characteristics.  That is not to say hunting Gordons aren't out there, they are.  I have been behind some very good ones.  But specifically ask if they are hunting stock and if you can, hunt over one or both parents.  The same is true of Weimaraners and Irish Setters.  Most of the ones available are of show stock.
 
Even some English Setters are of show stock and have no interest in birds whatsoever.  A friend of mine has one and it has been used in dog training videos as a bad example.
 
When looking at a Lab, there are three distinctions, Waterfowl, Upland, and Show.  This doesn't mean that one can't cross over into the other, but they won't do as well outside their element.
 
Best of luck in picking a breed and a pup. Please post pictures.