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Porktown
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/18 22:18:42 (permalink)
Cruz 2024! The cult loves nothing more than someone that ticks off the media. If we aren’t lucky enough for him to hang himself, the odds of the cult nominating him is about a lock now.
crappiefisher
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/18 22:42:49 (permalink)

CAPTAIN HOOK
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/19 08:33:55 (permalink)
How about instead of raising paying 15 dollars in minimum wages we allow all who make under 50K a year federal and state tax free along with fair priced health insurance. Why do the largest stimulus payouts and tax cuts go to the companies and not the employees ? That trickle down theory is abused by many employers who never reinvest or share fairly ,but instead use it for their own individual gain. Do you really think all the stimulus money paid out to companies all went toward keeping employees hired or company improvements ? American greed is alive and well even in desperate times.  
DarDys
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/19 09:48:01 (permalink)
JerryS
DarDys

If you really think that, then either the media has brainwashed you to the point of no return; you are manipulated to hate, with no valid research; or need to change what research materials you use when forming an opinion.

 
I think one of your many theories applies here, the "opposite dog" theory.  lol

DarDys

As stated, don’t like the guy. But I understand his strategies. Read “Art of the Deal” to see how NYC politics on a local level can form ones MO, then see if you can make that same statement in an honest manner.



I chuckle over the common theme of many on here.  "Hate the guy, like his policies".  I've been around long enough to know you can't separate the two.  A man's character carries over in all aspects of his life.  If he is a racist, white nationalist, who cheats on three wives in his personal life, his business and political agendas will be reflect those same beliefs.  Although maybe those are the policies you like. 


Here are the policies I like, in no particular order:

Close the border until Congress enacts immigration reform.

Provide tax cuts.

Be energy independent (even an exporter).

Enterprise zones.

Funding for TBC&U

Cut regulations

Reduce insulin costs (was headed for other drugs)

Strong military

Removing troops from the Middle East

Facilitating peace in the Middle East

Having the toughest sanctions ever on Russia

Having the toughest sanctions ever on Iran

Having tariffs on China

Holding China accountable for Covid

Getting NATO partners to pay their stipulated financial shares which they never did

Taking issue with European countries that belong to NATO, which was formed to protect them from Russia, for buying oil and NG from Russia

Understanding that the powers of the federal government are limited by the Constitution

Having the federal government act as the support for the states

Limiting the property tax deduction so I don’t have to pay federal taxes to cover for locales that have extreme property taxes by subsidizing their residents

Opening more federal ground to hunting and fishing

Getting out of WHO, particularly paying the lion’s share, when they fumbled Covid

Getting out of the Paris Climate Accord, when the US was the only member coming close to meeting the standards and the other main players, namely China and India do not need to meet the standards we are at today for decades and if they don’t, it is unenforceable

Getting out of the Iran nuclear deal that they had not adhered to from the day it was written

Removing regulatory red tape for drug development, thereby shortening the process by years and reducing costs

Engaging, not forcing, private industry to aid the government in a time of crisis

Holding government workers accountable and providing a means to dismiss them

Getting the VA on track

I’m sure there are more, but notice none of them are the ones you listed, which just further supports my point that you are painting with a broad brush via character assassination because you cannot thoughtfully debate the issues, just put forth hate based on what the media has told you is important.

It is extremely easy to separate the man from the policies.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
DarDys
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/19 10:01:45 (permalink)
Back to solar panels for a moment.

My neighbor installed them four years ago on his south facing roof. Cost was $56,000. My average electric bill is $200 per month ($100 in summer, $300 in winter for the heat pump with electric backup), so, it would take me over 23 years, if he didn’t need to use any electric supplied my the electric company, which he does need from time to time, to break even. If it is presumed that he used more electric than I do, which he probably does with kids, and he gets to sell his excess to the electric company, the payback is still around 20 years.

His panels are never covered in snow or ice, they heat themselves to keep clear.

He did not buy the battery storage option, which was approximately another $40,000, which means if my power goes out, so does his. For safety reasons, if the power goes out, his system must shut down in order to not be feeding the grid with excess power and endangering line workers who must presume the source of power is from their generation only and cannot have power coming from another source and energizing the lines.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
MyWar
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/19 10:36:43 (permalink)
Porktown
Yeah, no it isn’t false. You know that I am not a right wing media zombie. I am an objective thinking person that knows there are many sides to every issue. Rarely a left or right proposal meets that of the majority.

$15/hr for national minimum wage is far left. As noted many times, I am all for a reasonable hike to the minimum wage. I posted the MIT study showing what a livable wage is. It varies drastically throughout the thousands of economies in our country. Trying to force what feels like a fair wage to your economy to the small businesses of other economies in this country would be a complete disaster. I would be all for Congress or others to do a study like MIT and find what the lowest livable wage in the country would be and raise to that figure. Adjust for inflation every year. Have a program if they would like to make it easier for states or counties to follow their formula to adjust for their economies. That MIT study showed the vast majority of our country’s many economies have a living wage similar to that $10/hr range you noted. Forcing small businesses that are likely paying close to that figure already, is one thing. Forcing small businesses in economies where $15/hr is more along the lines of someone 7-8 years of reliable labor, to pay everyone that would be crushing. You seem intelligent. I am not sure how you would not see this?

Not sure what you are saying about issues being the tenants of the most far left politicians, not being far left? You lost me there. When they are the main issues of the most extreme left, they in definition would be far left issues... I must be misunderstanding.

Is slavery reparations too hot of an issue for you? It evidently isn’t for the modern day Democratic Party, that isn’t going too far left... I am of mostly Slavic decent. My ancestors were slaves at the same time there were slaves here, which is where the name came from. They came over sharing the hay with livestock on boats. Lived in what were the slums of Pittsburgh and Columbus, OH, doing whatever they could to make a life, shoving 2-3 families in 2 bedroom apartments. They came here to meet up with many others like them from Italy, Scotland, Ireland, you name it, that were escaping famine, war or whatever. Many escaped enslavement or serfdom. Immigrants at that time were not treated much, if any better than the “freed” slaves of the north. I definitely believe white people have an advantage over black people in this country right now. There is definitely institutional racism. But the vast majority of people in this country were not ancestors of slave owners and the ones that are, likely aren’t seeing all that much wealth passed down from it. Add reparations to the average tax payer and there will be a lot more than institutional racism going on. We may be crossing the line already in the attempted force the end of confederate history (which I do believe has no business to be in public spaces), but many are far from me on that point. Force those people to pay part of their earnings to people directly, after many feel they already do in forms of welfare and others. Do we really not see the tipping point of the race war that a little too many are excited to see already. If $15/hr is a dumb idea, reparations is possibly a brain dead idea. If these payments are from companies or ultra wealthy that had heavy ties into slavery, have at it. When done there, let’s force it all around the world and get me some cash for my ancestors being forced into labor.


No I don’t think you are a zombie, but I think you are more influenced by right wing media bullshiit than maybe you realize. I also think maybe you like to play devils advocate, or play the role of a contrarian, which is fine because I do that myself sometimes.

$15 might be too high for the minimum wage. Luxembourg has the highest min wage worldwide at $13.78 btw:

https://worldpopulationre...inimum-wage-by-country

I might even go as far to say $15 is *probably* too high nationwide, but it needs to be raised from where it is now. There is no doubt about that. Maybe calls for $15 bring enough attention to the issue and result in an improvement of the current situation? Maybe it’s labor’s negotiation tactic to ask high and negotiate to something in the middle? That’s how a lot of public policy becomes law, isn’t it? Isn’t that how a lot of negotiations in politics work?

I’d say we are seeing similar phenomena with healthcare and student debt. The federal government isn’t going to wipe out student debt like Elizabeth Warren keeps calling for, but she is drawing attention to what is a very real problem, and the Biden administration is probably going to do something to address the out of control costs of higher education. But it won’t be total elimination of all outstanding debt.

Similarly with healthcare, we aren’t gonna get universal healthcare like Sanders wants, but I’ll bet we get a public option, which was a bridge too far for the senate in 2010.

But like many of Bernie sander’s ideas, universal healthcare isn’t a radical or “far left” idea. His whole platform is pretty much identical to that of Nordic Social Democrats, which is definitely left of center, but not “radical”. Those models of governance rely on a blend of government regulated and open markets, plus strong social safety net programs. Republicans in the US have convinced people that these are radical ideas, but they aren’t. Many of our western allies have adopted these policies successfully. That’s what I’m talking about when I say they aren’t “far left”.

Slavery reparations are pretty far from becoming a reality. There was a congressional sub committee hearing that heard testimony because they are considering whether to create a commission to study the idea of reparations. That’s it. There are literally no other details beyond that. If your suggestion is that the “crazy democratz” are gonna start throwing money at black people then it’s absolutely a straw man because that’s not what is happening.

Reparations also have historical precedent though. Simply talking about the idea isn’t crazy. I’ve also read some of your other posts where you have clearly demonstrated a deeper, more nuanced understanding of racial justice issues, and that makes me wonder if there isn’t some devils advocate thing going on here.
DeadGator401
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/19 10:51:00 (permalink)
DarDys
JerryS
DarDys

If you really think that, then either the media has brainwashed you to the point of no return; you are manipulated to hate, with no valid research; or need to change what research materials you use when forming an opinion.

 
I think one of your many theories applies here, the "opposite dog" theory.  lol

DarDys

As stated, don’t like the guy. But I understand his strategies. Read “Art of the Deal” to see how NYC politics on a local level can form ones MO, then see if you can make that same statement in an honest manner.



I chuckle over the common theme of many on here.  "Hate the guy, like his policies".  I've been around long enough to know you can't separate the two.  A man's character carries over in all aspects of his life.  If he is a racist, white nationalist, who cheats on three wives in his personal life, his business and political agendas will be reflect those same beliefs.  Although maybe those are the policies you like. 


Here are the policies I like, in no particular order:

Close the border until Congress enacts immigration reform.

Provide tax cuts.

Be energy independent (even an exporter).

Enterprise zones.

Funding for TBC&U

Cut regulations

Reduce insulin costs (was headed for other drugs)

Strong military

Removing troops from the Middle East

Facilitating peace in the Middle East

Having the toughest sanctions ever on Russia

Having the toughest sanctions ever on Iran

Having tariffs on China

Holding China accountable for Covid

Getting NATO partners to pay their stipulated financial shares which they never did

Taking issue with European countries that belong to NATO, which was formed to protect them from Russia, for buying oil and NG from Russia

Understanding that the powers of the federal government are limited by the Constitution

Having the federal government act as the support for the states

Limiting the property tax deduction so I don’t have to pay federal taxes to cover for locales that have extreme property taxes by subsidizing their residents

Opening more federal ground to hunting and fishing

Getting out of WHO, particularly paying the lion’s share, when they fumbled Covid

Getting out of the Paris Climate Accord, when the US was the only member coming close to meeting the standards and the other main players, namely China and India do not need to meet the standards we are at today for decades and if they don’t, it is unenforceable

Getting out of the Iran nuclear deal that they had not adhered to from the day it was written

Removing regulatory red tape for drug development, thereby shortening the process by years and reducing costs

Engaging, not forcing, private industry to aid the government in a time of crisis

Holding government workers accountable and providing a means to dismiss them

Getting the VA on track

I’m sure there are more, but notice none of them are the ones you listed, which just further supports my point that you are painting with a broad brush via character assassination because you cannot thoughtfully debate the issues, just put forth hate based on what the media has told you is important.

It is extremely easy to separate the man from the policies.


I think you're missing his point, while making it at the same time. You don't deny any of the things Jerry said, just listed things instead that you support. You indicate support "in spite of" his flaws. (Even tout this support)

The problem is, his flaws are so egregious that his morality SHOULD come into play for your average human. The benefits he provides aren't morally free, there's always a price to pay when dealing with Trump. 

You seem like an intelligent guy, and a lot of your posts are well thought out, and you present things in a readable way, which is appreciated. But, you also seem to like to fall back on/insinuate that others have lower intelligence when debating on here. I'd caution against this - remember, there's more than one way to be intelligent and emotional intelligence is a pretty big factor in a persons life, and often is a reason for a persons internal struggle with their morality. 

 
post edited by DeadGator401 - 2021/02/19 11:10:12
crappiefisher
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/19 11:45:52 (permalink)
https://triblive.com/news...ents-at-state-schools/
post edited by crappiefisher - 2021/02/19 12:03:12
Porktown
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/19 14:55:41 (permalink)
MyWar

$15 might be too high for the minimum wage. Luxembourg has the highest min wage worldwide at $13.78 btw:

I might even go as far to say $15 is *probably* too high nationwide, but it needs to be raised from where it is now. 
 

You do realize that you are basically repeating everything that I have been saying on the topic... 
 
I try my best to listen to both sides before forming an opinion.  Much easier to do while not drinking beers, which I think many can tell which of my responses have beers involved...    I am 100% real when I say that I know there are good people on both sides, so try to really see what about each topic that person really likes, which I often find is similar to my view.  I really don't care if it is left or right leaning. 
 
Since I am not a Republican or Democrat, I do not feel the need to defend parts and pieces of a topic that I feel are wrong.  Which is probably where the devils advocate/contrarian part comes, as I find much enjoyment hammering away at the parts that I feel are horrible.  i.e. I feel the minimum wage is too low, but $15/hr is insane.  That view does not fit either party platform.   
 
MyWar

That’s what I’m talking about when I say they aren’t “far left”.
 

 
Definitely fair point there.  The way your message was yesterday was worded was kind of strange and had to comment. 
 
As I have noted many times on healthcare, I just find it perplexing that those countries pay LESS than our government pays for us per capita, and they have "full health coverage".  We have nothing, that we have to spend more of our own money on top to either pay out of pocket or insurance.
 
But when Bernie showed figures of his plan, it had substantial tax increases to pay for it?  Fair point to say, overall, we would save compared to now.  But why wouldn't it address the black hole that is our current government spending on healthcare, that doesn't seem to be funding much. 
 
 
 
MyWar

Simply talking about the idea isn’t crazy. I’ve also read some of your other posts where you have clearly demonstrated a deeper, more nuanced understanding of racial justice issues, and that makes me wonder if there isn’t some devils advocate thing going on here.

I am 100% for equality, as you have noted in my past posts about race.  I'll go as far as saying institutional racism is a fact, not that I feel it is real.  I am all for addressing it, but this is ridiculous at best.
 
It makes no sense to me that they would even have a sub-committee to investigate the idea.  As you noted, it is causing that exact “crazy democratz” are gonna start throwing money at black people" sentiment to about half of this country.  For what?  If it happens to catch steam and turns to reality, I have no doubt at all there would be racial terrorism at the very least, if not an all out race war.  Which it is evident that there is a pretty substantial portion of the far right that has spent the past 20 years preparing for.  Why even have that conversation?  To thumb your nose at those people?  To have a few of them go on a racial killing spree? 
 
As I noted about the majority of American's ancestors not having any links to slave ownership, it is not going to be supported by many outside of the far left.  So, I would consider this a far left idea, that is getting consideration by the whole of the Democratic party to have hearings.  As I noted about the Democratic party going more left, why wouldn't have these hearings happened under Clinton or Obama if not moving further to the left?
 
Don't get me wrong, I find a lot of what the left does as good ideas in my opinion.  Just as I find many things the right does as good ideas.
JerryS
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/19 17:32:37 (permalink)
DarDys

I’m sure there are more, but notice none of them are the ones you listed, which just further supports my point that you are painting with a broad brush via character assassination because you cannot thoughtfully debate the issues, just put forth hate based on what the media has told you is important.

It is extremely easy to separate the man from the policies.



I could easily debate many of your points, but it is not worth my time.  Normally I just ignore posters like you, but your response to "irisheyeball" just tripped my trigger.  All he did was give his opinion on Rush Limbaugh, nothing was directed at you, and you come charging in with personal insults.
 
Like "DeadGator" stated, you need to get off your high horse.
post edited by JerryS - 2021/02/19 17:44:33
crappiefisher
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/19 17:59:42 (permalink)
 The good ole days! When a big fat Reese Cup was a nickel and a 10 pack 39 cents.Stores closed on Sundays and the ole lady did not have to go to a job. Real double headers on Sunday too boot!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QXyqk9flwk
post edited by crappiefisher - 2021/02/19 18:15:28
MyWar
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/19 20:51:05 (permalink)
Porktown
MyWar

$15 might be too high for the minimum wage. Luxembourg has the highest min wage worldwide at $13.78 btw:

I might even go as far to say $15 is *probably* too high nationwide, but it needs to be raised from where it is now. 
 

You do realize that you are basically repeating everything that I have been saying on the topic... 
 

 
Am I though? You're framing it very differently as some "crazy democratz" thing that's equivalent to some nutty republican shiit. I'm definitely not.
 
 
 
Porktown
But when Bernie showed figures of his plan, it had substantial tax increases to pay for it? 

 
Have you ever thought about how republican tax cuts are basically the conservative equivalent of the "free college" or "free healthcare" or "free whatever" that they like to bash democrats for? Who doesn't want lower taxes? Of course I'd love to pay less money in taxes. But right now, if you ask some Texas republicans if they would prefer to have a tax cut or a state government that is capable of maintaining a functional power grid, which do you think they would prefer right now?  
 
 
Porktown
It makes no sense to me that they would even have a sub-committee to investigate the idea.  As you noted, it is causing that exact “crazy democratz” are gonna start throwing money at black people" sentiment to about half of this country.  For what? 

 
Black voters are a big reason why democrats won control of the federal government during the last election, especially the Senate races in Georgia. The idea of reparations has pretty broad support among black voters (74% according to this poll), so I'd say the party absolutely owes it those voters to at least talk about the idea. 
 
 
Porktown
If it happens to catch steam and turns to reality, I have no doubt at all there would be racial terrorism at the very least, if not an all out race war.  Which it is evident that there is a pretty substantial portion of the far right that has spent the past 20 years preparing for.  Why even have that conversation?  To thumb your nose at those people?  To have a few of them go on a racial killing spree? 

 
I don't think we should be held hostage by fringe lunatics that want to start a race war, should we? Nor should public policy regarding racial justice and economic equality be crafted in fear of what the white power boneheads might do. Everybody knew there would be substantial social and cultural backlash against desegregation, but people fought for civil rights anyway. 
 
 
Porktown
As I noted about the majority of American's ancestors not having any links to slave ownership, it is not going to be supported by many outside of the far left.  So, I would consider this a far left idea, that is getting consideration by the whole of the Democratic party to have hearings.  As I noted about the Democratic party going more left, why wouldn't have these hearings happened under Clinton or Obama if not moving further to the left?

 
Many different forms of material reparations have been proposed, not just direct cash payments. Things like tuition assistance, grants to individuals for purchasing or repairing property, and grants for businesses have been suggested, all of which are totally reasonable ideas.
Porktown
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/19 21:08:51 (permalink)
New bill has the $15/hr min wage (by 2025) in it. Factoring in a 2% inflation rate, that puts it over the Luxembourg total. At 3% well over. Luxembourg is a city state, much more in line with one of our larger cities. This will be absolutely horrible for small businesses in rural/small town America, which will in turn cause hyperinflation for the entire nation. The rich have the ability to pass this along. Those in the middle will be taking a hard one right in their Fckingasholeswithaughtloob.

If this goes through, it will be worse in my opinion than 3 terms of Trump. I will register Republican and vote GOP until the day I die.

Hey GOP, can you please dig up some Russia ties or something? What ever happened with Hunter and the China ties. Something, soon!!!!
Porktown
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/19 21:30:12 (permalink)
Dude, you just now changed your tone on $15 probably being too high. Not trying to bust your stones on actually thinking it out. I think we likely would agree on most things if we sat down and discussed things.


100% on what you are saying on the lower taxes, basically buying a vote. But I am referring more to what we have discussed before on how the health issue math just never seems to add up. I am pretty confident it has a bit to do with health insurance, big pharma and hospitals in bed with both parties. According to many stock analysts, they seem to “advise” that the Dems are much more in bed on this issue. I.e. put money on those sectors if you haven’t yet... Not to cross streams on board topics.

I hear what you are saying on black voters being huge for Dems, but does that mean you pay them? 74%??? Are there really 26% that said no? Can you send me to a poll that asks if I should get a payment from our government over my skin color?

Is poking a fractured bee hive with a stick, being held hostage? The timing of this is not wise. You see these fools break into the US Capital and try to overthrow the government for their leader. You already see that they are unruly. Maybe, holding off on this would be a more responsible way to go after things? Or maybe a less diversive way to address inequality?
Porktown
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/20 08:21:44 (permalink)
Cruz 2024. He will flight for us all!!!
Porktown
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/20 08:21:44 (permalink)
Cruz 2024. He will flight for us all!!!
JM2
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/20 14:06:20 (permalink)
He should of pulled a Pelosi, and claim he was set up. Then for good measure call the media out for being racist. Seems to always work for the Dems.
MyWar
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/21 09:25:20 (permalink)
Porktown
Is poking a fractured bee hive with a stick, being held hostage? The timing of this is not wise. You see these fools break into the US Capital and try to overthrow the government for their leader. You already see that they are unruly. Maybe, holding off on this would be a more responsible way to go after things? Or maybe a less diversive way to address inequality?


I dunno, I think we need a better reason than “would somebody please think of the white supremacists”.

If people are h3llbent on starting a race war then they are going to do it regardless. Tiptoeing around racists or kowtowing to the worst people in the country is divisive in its own way. Additionally, these same arguments were used against desegregation.

There are some valid arguments against reparations, particularly reparations in the form of direct cash payments, which I agree are probably unworkable. But as I mentioned, other plans have been proposed which involve assisting people in building wealth rather than handouts. There is no reason that some of those plans couldn’t be implemented successfully. And there is definitely no reason that the federal government can’t have a discussion about it.
MyWar
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/21 09:43:52 (permalink)
Porktown
Dude, you just now changed your tone on $15 probably being too high. Not trying to bust your stones on actually thinking it out. I think we likely would agree on most things if we sat down and discussed things.



Yea we probably agree on more than we disagree. Which is why I find it so perplexing that you are reluctant to support Democrats.

I never said “$15 and not a penny less”. I don’t view this as an all or nothing game. I said Democrats shouldn’t be dismissed completely because some in their party support the idea of a $15 min wage. That’s where we seem to disagree.

I don’t think $15 will get through the senate, but those that push $15 in the House are pressuring senators like Manchin and sinema to support more progressive ideas than they would have otherwise. That’s generally how the system works, and if the Republican Party hadn’t completely lost its collective mind, then they would be involved in the negotiations as well.

I have alot of respect for labor leaders who fought like h3ll and gave us things like the 40 hour work week. Again, many of the same arguments you are using have been used against labor reforms in the past. But an affluent American middle class was built on the back of those reforms and I view this as an extension of that movement.
JM2
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/21 10:13:22 (permalink)
When the party changes their views, and policy. I also change my views. Some are complete political party hacks on this board.
MyWar
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/21 11:44:04 (permalink)
JM2
When the party changes their views, and policy. I also change my views. Some are complete political party hacks on this board.


Says the guy whose party was transformed into the Qanon death cult that worships a reality TV show con man. Preach on.
Porktown
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/21 12:12:40 (permalink)
You note the 74% of black voters supporting reparations. Can you post the remainder of voters approval. I can help out, extremely low.

Right now, support for racial reform is high, including all races that live with inequality. Calling it reparations is not popular, since most take that as direct monetary payment. I would assume many in that 74% think it is too and have no doubt many proposing the legislation are asking for monetary payments.

If the idea is for programs to help in other ways, call it that and drop the reparations title. There is a lot of support for this right now, why mess with it? This is just as dumb as the “defund the police”. Many in support want an actual defunding of police, how it got the name, while others say it isn’t actual defunding. Then call it what it is, or it will be perceived by many as what it is called... Trump was criticized for perceived meanings on many things as well.

Hispanics and those of Middle East decent are as discriminated against, possibly even more. Asians aren’t far behind. There is huge support to address all racism, not just descendants of slavery in the US. We need programs that help make equal and weed out discrimination as much as possible.

IMO, this legislation has much more chance of squashing the momentum of race equality than it does passing.
Reel Fin Addict
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/21 21:46:07 (permalink)
MyWar
JM2
When the party changes their views, and policy. I also change my views. Some are complete political party hacks on this board.


Says the guy whose party was transformed into the Qanon death cult that worships a reality TV show con man. Preach on.
Reel Fin Addict
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/21 21:54:11 (permalink)
The death cult has been BLM terrorist group run by terrorist Susan Rosenberg pardon by Bill Clinton Antifa just an idea Beijing Biden says I want our country back!
FishinGuy
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/22 09:38:25 (permalink)
Reel Fin Addict
The death cult has been BLM terrorist group run by terrorist Susan Rosenberg pardon by Bill Clinton Antifa just an idea Beijing Biden says I want our country back!
I'm sorry. What?
pensfan1
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/22 09:54:19 (permalink)
FishinGuy
Reel Fin Addict
The death cult has been BLM terrorist group run by terrorist Susan Rosenberg pardon by Bill Clinton Antifa just an idea Beijing Biden says I want our country back!
I'm sorry. What?


I know rite, FG.. someone must be out of their Clonazepam, jus say'IN....
Porktown
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/22 17:04:20 (permalink)
MyWar
Yea we probably agree on more than we disagree. Which is why I find it so perplexing that you are reluctant to support Democrats.

I never said “$15 and not a penny less”. I don’t view this as an all or nothing game. I said Democrats shouldn’t be dismissed completely because some in their party support the idea of a $15 min wage. That’s where we seem to disagree.

I don’t think $15 will get through the senate, but those that push $15 in the House are pressuring senators like Manchin and sinema to support more progressive ideas than they would have otherwise. That’s generally how the system works, and if the Republican Party hadn’t completely lost its collective mind, then they would be involved in the negotiations as well.

I have alot of respect for labor leaders who fought like h3ll and gave us things like the 40 hour work week. Again, many of the same arguments you are using have been used against labor reforms in the past. But an affluent American middle class was built on the back of those reforms and I view this as an extension of that movement.

With the PPI report last week, there is real fear of inflation coming.  Hopefully that kills this $15/hr. talk altogether, as it was something that even the most liberal economists brushed off as "it wouldn't be too bad".  There isn't a respected economist alive that could say with a straight face that raising minimum wage to $15/hr by 2025 would not cause inflation, especially now seeing this PPI report. 
 
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ppi.nr0.htm
 
Just like the "reparations" and "defund the police", the Dems do the same thing as Republicans and get stuck in the base chant/naming of things and have a hard time turning it into something sensible.  This is "$15/hr minimum wage" which they are taking on and most seem to be supporting.  It would be great if these are the negotiating, entry level points.  But when you have a full house and as you noted with the Republicans completely losing their minds, they need to be real with the public and negotiate for us.  
 
This just seems to punctuate my beliefs of our two party disaster.  Democrats give to the poor, Republicans give to the rich, both do it by taking from the middle class.  Neither party cares about those in the middle.  They get their bases to elect them, while we are forced to vote for the lesser evil.  It is starting to look like somehow, Trump might turn out to be the lesser evil.  Which is insanity. After second thought, that statement is on economy alone. Everything else, Trump might be the worst ever.
post edited by Porktown - 2021/02/22 17:42:52
MyWar
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/22 18:36:15 (permalink)
Porktown
MyWar
Yea we probably agree on more than we disagree. Which is why I find it so perplexing that you are reluctant to support Democrats.

I never said “$15 and not a penny less”. I don’t view this as an all or nothing game. I said Democrats shouldn’t be dismissed completely because some in their party support the idea of a $15 min wage. That’s where we seem to disagree.

I don’t think $15 will get through the senate, but those that push $15 in the House are pressuring senators like Manchin and sinema to support more progressive ideas than they would have otherwise. That’s generally how the system works, and if the Republican Party hadn’t completely lost its collective mind, then they would be involved in the negotiations as well.

I have alot of respect for labor leaders who fought like h3ll and gave us things like the 40 hour work week. Again, many of the same arguments you are using have been used against labor reforms in the past. But an affluent American middle class was built on the back of those reforms and I view this as an extension of that movement.

With the PPI report last week, there is real fear of inflation coming.  Hopefully that kills this $15/hr. talk altogether, as it was something that even the most liberal economists brushed off as "it wouldn't be too bad".  There isn't a respected economist alive that could say with a straight face that raising minimum wage to $15/hr by 2025 would not cause inflation, especially now seeing this PPI report. 
 
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/ppi.nr0.htm
 
Just like the "reparations" and "defund the police", the Dems do the same thing as Republicans and get stuck in the base chant/naming of things and have a hard time turning it into something sensible.  This is "$15/hr minimum wage" which they are taking on and most seem to be supporting.  It would be great if these are the negotiating, entry level points.  But when you have a full house and as you noted with the Republicans completely losing their minds, they need to be real with the public and negotiate for us.  
 
This just seems to punctuate my beliefs of our two party disaster.  Democrats give to the poor, Republicans give to the rich, both do it by taking from the middle class.  Neither party cares about those in the middle.  They get their bases to elect them, while we are forced to vote for the lesser evil.  It is starting to look like somehow, Trump might turn out to be the lesser evil.  Which is insanity. After second thought, that statement is on economy alone. Everything else, Trump might be the worst ever.


You are confusing activist slogans with the actual policies enacted by Democrats once in office

Biden isn’t “defunding police”, although the vast majority of elected democrats support reforms (much needed reforms at that). I’m sorry but this is the same kind of straw man stuff that Tucker Carlson does. It’s like a Trump supporter talking point.

You keep bringing up reparations like it’s a done deal and it’s not. Democrats haven’t even been in office a month (at the federal level) and Biden doesn’t even have his entire cabinet sworn in yet.

We don’t actually know what their legislative priorities are yet (I’m willing to bet it’s NOT reparations tho). Don’t you think your judgement is a little premature? Democrats haven’t been able to do much at the federal level since 2010, and you’re bashing the entire party for things that they haven’t even done yet.

By most measures, in recent history the economy has performed better with Democrats in the White House. This is undeniably true for Clinton, GWB, Obama, and Trump. In fact I’d say Democrats have done a better job at managing all fiscal issues including things like balancing the budget and managing the deficit, and I’d be happy to provide some sources that back up these claims.

In fact going back to 2000, there has been a repeating pattern where republicans wreck everything and then democrats have clean it up. Biden was the VP when Obama had to clean up after the 2008 financial crisis, and I’m pretty confident he will be listening to competent advisors and they will make sound decisions, many of which have been through this stuff already. Which is a sharp contrast to Trump surrounding himself with sycophants and yes men.

But if what is really about is Tom Wolf’s tax plan well that’s another discussion.
BloodyHand
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/22 20:03:46 (permalink)
 "Biden was the VP when Obama had to clean up after the 2008 financial crisis"
What caused this crisis, and who was in charge?
 
BH
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Re: Trump... 2021/02/22 20:55:56 (permalink)
BloodyHand
 "Biden was the VP when Obama had to clean up after the 2008 financial crisis"
What caused this crisis, and who was in charge?
 
BH



The causes of the crisis are complex but I think it can be summed briefly as due to: (1) the housing market bubble blowing up, and (2) the subsequent collapse of securities and investments markets that were built on the housing market, specifically subprime mortgage commodities. And it was just a domino effect from there, touching almost every major financial institution in the country.

George W Bush was president in 2007 when it really began to snowball out of control. And while it may not be totally fair to blame him for all of it, it definitely happened on his watch, and his administration failed to act in a timely manner. It’s also a lesson about deregulation and what can happen if crucial financial markets aren’t managed properly.
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