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LDD
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/01 14:37:32 (permalink)
JM2
LDD 
Let me ask you a question...What's your answer to crime in this country?  



Get criminals elected, or appointed to public office as Democrats, at which point people like you would be okay with their criminal activities, and the problem would seeming disappear.


Now that's an adult answer.  Like I said, you're incapable of understanding that because I'm not a Trumper I'm not a democrat.  It's not a hard concept.  
LDD
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/01 14:44:41 (permalink)
r3g3
With diminished enforcement we are already seeing the awful results in the Cities involved.
The old 'broken window theory' was laughed at by cops when it first came out but it really worked.
If PD is out there being visible taking care of little things criminals seem to take note and either go elsewhere or decide its just a bad idea.
An active PD is their worst nightmare.
 
A point to be made is that America follows the theory ( Peals) of keeping crime within 'socially acceptable levels' not total abolishment.
Some totalitarian govts try and do complete abolishment and that doesnt work either.


Right, the cities can't fill the absence of police with nothing.  I agree.  My point is that we can't ask officers to do things they are not trained to do or that would be better served by other social services, which we certainly need.  
 
 
Irisheyeball
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/01 15:01:19 (permalink)
I suppose the most prominent example is Camden, NJ, which abolished its PD then recreated it under County auspices, I believe. There’s lots of articles online about Camden.
r3g3
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/01 20:07:23 (permalink)
Contrary to what many would have you believe--
 
Officers are heavily trained in domestic disturbance cases as well as mental cases wherein they are called because someone is out of control including a lot on people trying to commit suicide by cop.
 The officers first concern is not to cure the person out of control but to protect all involved.
As you know sometimes there is no cure or it can take years or meds are involved- yes officers are trained in trying to reason with out of control folks but in many cases ya get sent to even the family and professionals in the field have already failed in that regard.
Many no win situations out there and its the officers who get called and have to deal with the situation at hand when its already out of hand- or ya wouldnt be there.
 
Years back our State shut down many in patient facilities where folks had been for years- gave them their meds- hoped they would stay on them as necessary - and placed them in various communities in public housing'
Some wild times for local police and neighbors soon followed.
 
Sometimes ya gotta consider real life and not some -later on- hypothetical version of coulda woulda shoulda.
 
When somebody takes a poke at ya its wayyy past -gee how are you feeling about things today?
 
 
What we aren't trained in is animal control- zoning enforcement-building code violations- persons constantly calling nit picking on their neighbors-people who dislike the kids down the street  etc etc--
Ya have to refer those to proper municipal agencies or just try and work it out as best ya can= lotsa no wins.
 
 For some poor folks this world will just never be right= no matter how much ya try and help them.
post edited by r3g3 - 2020/10/01 20:46:23
JM2
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/02 09:06:03 (permalink)
LDD
 
Typical discussion with you JM2...whatever
 
Absolutely there are major issues in American cities that have democratic leadership.  I completely agree. That is seen most recently in the rioting  taking place in these cities.   Feel better?
I would also agree that the Pacific NW is home to multiple far left extremist groups that foment this violence and that a lot of those responsible for the violence in Seattle and Portland are white, far left, extremists.    The situation in other cities is more dynamic with extremists from both sides filtering in with regular criminals to create mayhem.   
 
What I don't agree with is the drum beat that the only cities with crime problems or states with crime problems are blue.  That doesn't make any sense and it is factually incorrect.   
 
I also firmly believe that Donald made all of this worse.  He couldn't lead himself out of a wet paper bag. Many Americans also believe this.  The approach is all wrong but he feels like he benefits from it so he sticks with it.  He clearly has no interest in representing all Americans and it has led us down this road.  It's his country and he's the leader of it and this mess is on his watch.  He's incapable of fixing it, he's shown that and now it's someone else's turn.   He can't help but divide and it's led to this.  You can throw hypotheticals around but this is reality.  
 
 
 




I’m glad we can agree on some things. That’s a start.
 
Trying to be clear for your benefit, and concise for my benefit. As far your statistics go pertaining to violent crimes. They can be somewhat misleading. If you have some states/cities with lax, or no enforcement of existing laws, and other states/cities with full enforcement of existing laws, it will skew the numbers. Same amount of crime, or maybe more, but not being recorded as crimes. Portland, Seattle, NY, LA, among other cities are not enforcing, and prosecuting the laws on their books. Thus lowering their crime rate.
 
Riot and loot in Portland you’re good, Riot in Memphis you’re going to jail. 
 
r3g3
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/06 16:01:20 (permalink)
Well- Brennan's handwritten notes of personally  briefing OBO about Hillary's plan in 2016 to makeup a Trump /Russia story so as to turn attention from her Email issue tell it all.
Added to other recent info it says just how deep and scary the whole deep state Govt was and is- along with an agreeable  willing lib press.
We have been hoodwinked for years and some will never believe otherwise after buying into the plot for so long.
Those folks should be mad as heck for being so used- but its hard to change a made up mind- even about made up stories.
Imagine all the time and effort that went into this plot- and imagine how Trump felt screaming to the sky that it was all BS all this time- finally to be proven correct.
He accomplished so much while under this cloud but what more he could have done without it?
ON OUR behalf.
The House would never have changed hands w/o the Russia BS.
Its a national disgrace and heads should roll.
He more than deserves another term.
post edited by r3g3 - 2020/10/06 16:03:18
MyWar
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/06 23:10:33 (permalink)
r3g3

He more than deserves another term.


Yea right. Look at all he accomplished just today:

Killed any hope of a stimulus bill
Tanked the stock market
Now he’s having a meltdown on Twitter

Praise be to our glorious leader!
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 07:48:40 (permalink)
MyWar



Yea right. Look at all he accomplished just today:

Killed any hope of a stimulus bill
Tanked the stock market
Now he’s having a meltdown on Twitter

Praise be to our glorious leader!


My my aren't we testy today. Good grief, 🙄talk about having a melt down.🤯
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2020/10/07 07:50:42

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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eyesandgillz
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 11:21:46 (permalink)
MyWar
r3g3

He more than deserves another term.


Yea right. Look at all he accomplished just today:

Killed any hope of a stimulus bill
Tanked the stock market
Now he’s having a meltdown on Twitter

Praise be to our glorious leader!



Yep, and today he did a 180, wants the Stimulus, and the market is rising.  
So what was your point again?
 
Pretty much against additional stimulus here....Just put in place "REASONABLE" restrictions and open things up more and let the economy rebound on its own.  It wants to....lots of "saved" money out there itching to be spent....if state governments would just let the people do it....in a reasonable safe manner....
MyWar
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 11:45:35 (permalink)
Wow what a consistent and stable genius we have here. “Steady as a rock” you could say.
DarDys
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 12:20:05 (permalink)
One of the primary negotiating tactics is to make an offer the other side would obviously jump on because it is equal to or greater than their target point and if it is rejected, walk away from the table because the other side has no intention of negotiating.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
MyWar
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 13:41:15 (permalink)
Sure, walking away from negotiations is a hardball tactic. But if that’s what he was trying to do, the messaging was piiss poor. Like everything else he does, it’s confusing, inconsistent... and voters are left guessing as to what the intention was, and what the outcome will be. This is less than 30 days from an election where he desperately needs to make up ground, and this is the best play he could come up with? Really?!?

The MAGA crowd may love this stuff, but everybody else is tired of it because it’s just completely insane.
LDD
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 13:56:12 (permalink)
DarDys
One of the primary negotiating tactics is to make an offer the other side would obviously jump on because it is equal to or greater than their target point and if it is rejected, walk away from the table because the other side has no intention of negotiating.

Great tactic in a decimated economy.  Or, it's just another Trump gaslight.  He says both things and everyone is left wondering, wandering in the smoke and mirrors.  
r3g3
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 14:05:20 (permalink)
Sounds like after weeks of trying with Nancy holding fast on lib bailouts and blaming Trump for failed talks  he called her bluff.
Now with line item offers of stuff people want she is in a real spot when saying NO.
MyWar
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 14:10:07 (permalink)
Or maybe it’s because the only way he knows how to get anybody to do something is by threatening them. “No stimulus bill unless I get re-elected!”

Or maybe it’s because he can’t bear to see any money go to blue states, because if you didn’t vote for him then you might as well not exist?

Or maybe it’s just roid rage?

Or maybe he’s just an incompetent buffoon, and he’s simply not good at being the president?
ICE NUT
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 14:18:31 (permalink)
MyWar maybe the POTUS took a page out of sleepy Joe's playbook remember when he threatened to withhold aid unless the prosecutor was fired for investigating his son,and ill be he was fired.And its road rage not roid
r3g3
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 14:19:05 (permalink)
With all the stuff happening lately you must be battered and bruised from bouncing off the basement walls.
 
Deeep breaths - most always works--deeeeep breaths  
DarDys
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 14:27:17 (permalink)
LDD
DarDys
One of the primary negotiating tactics is to make an offer the other side would obviously jump on because it is equal to or greater than their target point and if it is rejected, walk away from the table because the other side has no intention of negotiating.

Great tactic in a decimated economy.  Or, it's just another Trump gaslight.  He says both things and everyone is left wondering, wandering in the smoke and mirrors.  


The economy has nothing to do with it. The tactic is simply to understand if the other party is willing to negotiate in good faith. If they are, then new anchor points are established. If they are not, then there is no reason to expend more time, energy, or effort in an endeavor which will never come to pass.

Why did Trump change his mind? I have no idea, but if I were to venture a guess there was either a back channel blink by Pelosi or he was able to reframe the negotiation manner such as using a line-by-line approach to break down a large negotiation into smaller, more achievable chunks.

The mainstream media will never let it be known if it was the former. If it were the latter, that exercise exposes lines of agreement and lines of disagreement. The agreed upon lines are signed off and the disagreements are highlighted and worked on individually until an agreement or an impasse is reached.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 17:38:25 (permalink)
I would like to see an end to another round of negotiations in regard to another stimulus bill. Scrap the whole idea. Open up the states and the economy will improve. It is my understanding that the dems are insisting on mega bucks to bail out New York and California. I live in a small township that doesn’t spend more than they take in. I don’t like the idea of any tax dollars I pay go to bail out any state or city that can’t keep their financial house in order.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
Martin Luther King Jr. 
EMitch
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 17:43:32 (permalink)
You may remember when negotiations started a couple months back, the 'Crats started at 3.2 trillion, (with a T), and the Republicans started at 600 billion. Many republicans were averse to any stimulus at all if places could open up and get businesses up and runnin' again. Throughout the negotiations, the republicans kept increasing their offer and Nancy stayed right on 3.2T. She wants money to bail out all of the blue states that are buried under their unfunded liabilities in their employee pension plans, plus gobs of money to further their progressive "the government is here to take care of you" movement. We don't need to bail out progressive sanctuary cities and states that defy the Federal law. Now the republicans are offering 1.6 trillion and Nancy was still sayin' no, so, pull the plug. She's never gonna concede and give what she thinks will be a feather in the Presidents cap. Can't have the public thinkin' that Trump did something right.
 
Meanwhile, businesses are closed, some never to re-open, people lost their jobs, their unemployment is running out, some were most likely evicted or facing eviction for not keepin' up the rent or mortgage, and with Pelosi, their pleas are falling on deaf ears, 'cause it's all about "Get Trump". Gawd!!! I hope people can see what's happenin' and realize who's really at fault. I like the idea of line item and targeted expenditures.
 
In the interim, United and American Airlines are layin' off 30,000 employees, most all the airlines have canceled new plane orders and are moth balling many of their aircraft, businesses are flat out broke 'cause hardly any of them had the cash reserves on hand to survive the pandemic for months, and we still have these idiotic governors keeping things shut down or open for very limited use. (BTW; mostly blue states). Most red states' economies are makin' a comeback. There are safe ways to get up and running again, but if they think that Biden's gonna be their savior, I'd say they have another think comin'.
post edited by EMitch - 2020/10/08 05:41:09

If you agree with the Progressive Democrats, that's freedom of speech. If you disagree, it's hate speech and racism.
LDD
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 17:44:23 (permalink)
@Dardys
The economy has everything to do with it.  People and businesses are losing their ****e$.  The gov't can print money for corporate bailouts but can't give some family that has lost a job some childcare money or rent?  Don and Nancy's child fight shouldn't determine the fate of Americans.   Stop seeing this through your partisan blinders and see it for what it is, a complete failure of our government to do the job they were elected to do.  
post edited by LDD - 2020/10/07 17:47:14
DarDys
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 18:07:12 (permalink)
Either the point was missed or not wanted to be seen — the economy has nothing to do with negotiation tactics.

As for those families that are in dire need, and I believe there are many, I didn’t hear them advocating for money for me when Clinton sent my and 900 of my coworkers’ jobs to China. I didn’t hear a peep when Obama’s war on coal choked the 185 year old company I worked for to the point where 400 of us got laid off. Keep in mind, we got unemployment at the normal rate, not an additional amount on top, for 26 weeks, then we got zero. In addition, that UC was capped, so those that had good paying jobs got less than half of their normal take home and it was taxable to boot.

We had a rough time, but made it through. How, by not living beyond our means before, during, or after the layoff. After the first time, we tightened our belts even more and when the second layoff came we had enough set back to survive a full year if need be.

When I see these folks on TV in line for food and they are driving a Lexus or Audie SUV, I don’t feel for them. When I see folks who are complaining about not being able to pay the rent but are wearing $150 sunglasses, $200 ripped designer jeans, and $100 sneakers, I don’t feel for them.

Who I feel for are the small businesses that can’t open so politicians can keep the economy as a talking point.

The poster formally known as Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
Irisheyeball
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 19:01:05 (permalink)
There was no negotiating going on. Talks between Pelosi and Mnuchin were going nowhere. Trump’s bone-headed perspective was to not give the Dems a “win” close to the election, when it could have obviously been presented as his “win.” He is our George Costanza President - his every instinct is 180 degrees wrong. Then the drugs kicked in. Toddler Don fell back on extortion....”no deal until I win!” When the folly of that idea was realized he decided to agree on personal checks that he could put his name on. Uhh, no. No real thought involved, just electioneering.

🎶turn out the lights....the party’s over 🎶

TRUMP 202LIFE
MyWar
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 19:57:58 (permalink)
DarDys
Either the point was missed or not wanted to be seen — the economy has nothing to do with negotiation tactics.

As for those families that are in dire need, and I believe there are many, I didn’t hear them advocating for money for me when Clinton sent my and 900 of my coworkers’ jobs to China. I didn’t hear a peep when Obama’s war on coal choked the 185 year old company I worked for to the point where 400 of us got laid off. Keep in mind, we got unemployment at the normal rate, not an additional amount on top, for 26 weeks, then we got zero. In addition, that UC was capped, so those that had good paying jobs got less than half of their normal take home and it was taxable to boot.

 
I'm not sure I understand the "stern father" conservative logic. Just because you had to endure hardship, therefore others should have to suffer as well? This just strikes me as unnecessarily cruel.
 
Also,  I'm not going to go out of my way to defend 90s neoliberalism, but Clinton didn't send your job to China, the company you worked for did. So you can thank the board or directors that valued profit over your well being. I think its fair to say that corporate greed is just as responsible as Bill Clinton for US jobs getting shipped overseas in the wake of 90s trade policy.   
 
Obama didn't kill coal all by himself either. Cleaner, cheaper natural gas was a major factor, and I would argue that it was a much bigger factor than Obama's coal regulations. So if you voted for Corbett, you can also thank him for killing coal, because he bent over backwards to usher that industry into this state.
 
Furthermore, democrats have consistently pushed for better social safety net programs for decades and republicans have consistently pushed back. If republicans had their way, they would let corporate America walk all over us and there would be nothing: no unemployment, no medicare, no medicaid, no social security, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps! The only reason things like unemployment compensation exist at all is because of progressive ideas spawned from the labor movement (which many on this board would just dismiss as marxism or socialism). The only elected officials who are fighting for regular people are democrats like Bernie Sanders and Sherrod Brown and Tammy Baldwin and Jon Tester. You think Mitch McConnell gives a damm if you lose your job? 
 
 

DarDys
We had a rough time, but made it through. How, by not living beyond our means before, during, or after the layoff. After the first time, we tightened our belts even more and when the second layoff came we had enough set back to survive a full year if need be.

When I see these folks on TV in line for food and they are driving a Lexus or Audie SUV, I don’t feel for them. When I see folks who are complaining about not being able to pay the rent but are wearing $150 sunglasses, $200 ripped designer jeans, and $100 sneakers, I don’t feel for them.




Where do you see these people? On what television channel? Where is this happening? 
 
 
pensfan1
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/07 22:48:47 (permalink)
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LDD
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/08 07:27:21 (permalink)
DarDys
Either the point was missed or not wanted to be seen — the economy has nothing to do with negotiation tactics.

As for those families that are in dire need, and I believe there are many, I didn’t hear them advocating for money for me when Clinton sent my and 900 of my coworkers’ jobs to China. I didn’t hear a peep when Obama’s war on coal choked the 185 year old company I worked for to the point where 400 of us got laid off. Keep in mind, we got unemployment at the normal rate, not an additional amount on top, for 26 weeks, then we got zero. In addition, that UC was capped, so those that had good paying jobs got less than half of their normal take home and it was taxable to boot.

We had a rough time, but made it through. How, by not living beyond our means before, during, or after the layoff. After the first time, we tightened our belts even more and when the second layoff came we had enough set back to survive a full year if need be.

When I see these folks on TV in line for food and they are driving a Lexus or Audie SUV, I don’t feel for them. When I see folks who are complaining about not being able to pay the rent but are wearing $150 sunglasses, $200 ripped designer jeans, and $100 sneakers, I don’t feel for them.

Who I feel for are the small businesses that can’t open so politicians can keep the economy as a talking point.

Not wanting to be seen.  I make a statement about how they need to do their jobs, you switch the discussion to some talk about "negotiation tactics" that nobody who is being hurt by this pandemic cares about.  I don't care about Don and Nancy's "negotiation tactics".  I care about what they get done, which is apparently nothing.  
 
As far as the other stuff...ummm...this isn't about you.  
And btw...this is not the same economy you made your hay in.  Way different.  
Walleye jigs
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/08 09:54:12 (permalink)
That was not a fly! Trump said it was a miniature drone the Democrats used to bug Pence.
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/08 11:14:47 (permalink)
Walleye jigs
That was not a fly! Trump said it was a miniature drone the Democrats used to bug Pence.


Now that there's funny, I don't care who all y'all are. 🤭

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/08 12:40:27 (permalink)
Stopped by the courthouse to cast our ballot (for the ”general” election) and what a surprise. We had to pass through metal detection, have our temperature taken along with pictures and state our business.

So anyways, the guys at the front door were very friendly and quite helpful in getting us to our destination and we certainly appreciate their service.

With that being said, we proceeded to the appropriate office where we were once again, greeted by folks who were most courteous and helpful in getting us setup to cast our absentee ballot.

Weren't no line of people, however we did wait a few minutes as others before us, used the voting booths. Some other folks did come in behind us and by the time they filled out their ballot application, we had exited the booths.

What a hoot one lady was, when she handed her sealed ballot to the attendant yet maintaining a grip on the envelope and asking ”where will my ballot be kept until election day”? Her mouth was covered but as she turned her head toward us, the look in her eyes, said she was sporting a giant grin as she listened to the response.

The attendant, maintaining her grip on the opposite end of the envelope, did her best to assure absentee ballots are safely stored in a room to which only one person, maintains a key.

Anyways, our turn to place our marks came next and after turning in our ballots, down the road we went. Grinning all the way.

☑️ TRUMP/PENCE/HOUSE/SENATE
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2020/10/08 12:45:05

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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MyWar
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Re: Trump... 2020/10/08 13:22:24 (permalink)
Hey guys, you don’t think the plot to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer had anything to do with a certain orange president tweeting stuff like “LIBERATE MICHIGAN”, do you?

I mean we all know the violent, lawless terrorists are only on THE LEFT, right?
post edited by MyWar - 2020/10/08 13:24:03
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