SOL

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hot tuna
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Re: SOL 2016/08/08 15:14:53 (permalink)
Humm . I thought the rules for LSR tourney was 3 per boat . It wasn't an individual tourney , it was per boat .
I will have to re look
Could have been only allowed to weigh three in but allowed to keep your limit .
So I can see that . All the charters I know are not doing well , just sayin
post edited by hot tuna - 2016/08/08 15:17:47

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
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r3g3
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Re: SOL 2016/08/08 15:22:31 (permalink)
Look for those Natural Spawn numbers to drop.
As diminished stocking happens the percentage of Naturals taken out of the system will increase dramatically.
The return  'percentage' may be similar but the total will be likely be decreased.
Perhaps that's the goal ???
 
NOT against what appears to be in front of us- in fact I support most of it.
Devils in the details though.
post edited by r3g3 - 2016/08/11 22:40:13
#62
dimebrite2
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Re: SOL 2016/08/08 16:15:47 (permalink)
Two bob, definitely no major abundance but there are some nice mature kings being caught at times. Jack, I would guarantee regulations would change big time if Atlanticside became the primary fish for river spawning... tuna and rt, yeah I don't understand the increase and attention on lakers. I honestly think it's a sugar coat for federal funding due to native species which the same would apply to atlantics.

Rt, I don't think you can compare this system with any attempts in connecticut. This system has proven to host wild reproduction for pacific strains. I would put money on it that if the kings were gone, atlantics could flourish
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dimebrite2
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Re: SOL 2016/08/08 16:23:33 (permalink)
For the economy??? It's really tale of two bob'z if ya think about it (lol)

Many complain about it being detrimental, but atlantics would attract plenty. Of course price of everythimg would go up. The problem that would arise is the seperation of class, and rich prevailing over the more poor or moderate average joes. This river has been a **** show since I can remember. So this current situation of uncertainty, fefs, state, bait and stocks reduced is no surprise to me
#64
twobob
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Re: SOL 2016/08/08 17:48:13 (permalink)
hot tuna
Humm . I thought the rules for LSR tourney was 3 per boat . It wasn't an individual tourney , it was per boat .
I will have to re look
Could have been only allowed to weigh three in but allowed to keep your limit .
So I can see that . All the charters I know are not doing well , just sayin



I have no clue of the rules but the weigh your choice of 3 out of your catch sounds like a good rule.
The picture was 4 people holding 6 fish and it said they won by 29 pounds.
#65
hot tuna
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Re: SOL 2016/08/08 20:34:35 (permalink)
If 1 boat did well and others didn't , winning by 1 or 2 fish with a total of 3 weight sounds about right .
I can't confirm any catches or experience on the Great Lake other then mine . Fishers at the dock may tend to keep things close to their vest .
Last year at this time I caught 2 fat Browns , 2 legal steelhead , 6 mature chinook & a giant sheepshead

This season : 2 Browns , 1= dink , 1 decent rainbow , 1 skippy coho .
I'm still in search of a Great Lakes tounge .

As for atlantics , if you catch one on the lake , it's just another rod shaker as are most fish out there . If you catch 1 in the river then it's a lasting memory .
Not sure what direction I would point to on them as they are EXPENSIVE for the return .
Personally , I think the **** is gonna hit the fan from the lake anglers . While the trib anglers have a great experience at a trophy trib run spawning run fish , I must say most of the revenue comes from the Great Lake

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
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r3g3
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Re: SOL 2016/08/08 20:34:48 (permalink)
Fed Funding Atlantics occurred here on the Ct river long ago- perhaps it was a part of the original reason for what many consider the failed attempts at reestablishment.
That started back when Kennedy was President and toured the river.
What a waste of around 40  years of heavy stocking. ( or more).
 
post edited by r3g3 - 2016/08/11 22:39:17
#67
hot tuna
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Re: SOL 2016/08/08 21:08:12 (permalink)
Just IMO from working at an industrial seaway port .
Things like dams, industrial warm water discharge , storm water runoff and pollution are major factors as to why a coldwater natural fishery struggles in the lower 48

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
#68
hot tuna
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Re: SOL 2016/08/08 21:39:19 (permalink)
Ok , so after some conversation with others at stake . Some things I'm hearing may affect trib anglers as well .
None of this is official and all up to discussion . It is going to be proposed to close the zones to allow salmon to spawn naturally for a numbers offset in stocking .
This stocking reduction is dramatic .
Concern will focus on if enough reach the wild card of natural spawn .

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
#69
pafisher
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Re: SOL 2016/08/08 21:51:22 (permalink)
Closing the zones will be the end of my trips to SR country,no way will I fish among the yankers and slashers below the bridge.
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Clint S
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Re: SOL 2016/08/08 22:15:03 (permalink)
Close Orwell creek. That place has good spawning gravel and a snagger every 2 feet. Wondering if zones would be closed all year or just during salmon spawn and open in the winter.  FWIW it will cut the traffic on the river too.

The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb

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r3g3
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Re: SOL 2016/08/09 10:02:00 (permalink)
Closing the Zones and Orwell has been on, and off, 'the books' as options for increases by natural spawn for years.
 
 
Pulaski and Altmar of the future may not be what they were.
post edited by r3g3 - 2016/08/11 22:38:29
#72
pafisher
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Re: SOL 2016/08/09 12:50:14 (permalink)
How bout decreasing the creel limit to ONE Salmon per day,then even more will make it to wherever they spawn,why anyone keeps them is beyond me as they are terrible tasting.
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r3g3
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Re: SOL 2016/08/09 13:11:44 (permalink)
 
Cant wait for Thursdays likely reports on Wednesdays actual meeting and reality of the issues.
 
post edited by r3g3 - 2016/08/11 22:37:49
#74
hot tuna
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Re: SOL 2016/08/09 13:37:24 (permalink)
Rg , your not quite right . The lake management focus is about king salmon .
Charters HATE lake trout and would like nothing more then to stock more salmon and less to none on the lakers . Lakers & atlantics are a federal case.
We all know how the reduction to a 1 steelhead ( trib ) limit went . Lake guys kept their 3 and trib guys got reduced to 1 . It seemed to work IMO .
You will never , ever get the lake to reduce salmon to 1 fish .

As we also know , there were no zones in the beginning . Now granted there were more salmon stocked but there were crazy number of salmon in the river back then , could the natural reproduction be linked to way back then ?
Also , we experienced a drought year not to long ago when an emergency closure of the LFZ happened . Don't you think it might happen again ?
This is just food for thought at this point . We will find out the thoughts of the dec at tomorrow's meeting

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
#75
pafisher
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Re: SOL 2016/08/09 14:41:12 (permalink)
My suggested ONE Salmon was for the tribs,those caught on the lake are still edible....barely! Or better yet how bout making the entire SR a Fly ZONE C&R!!! That would make me happy.
#76
uglyfish
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Re: SOL 2016/08/09 14:43:17 (permalink)
I'm with Jack. Closing the zones and I may be out as well. Even though it's only 2:30 hours from my door no wants to be around the crap that goes on in the other spots. The good thing there are other places in the North east to target different species.
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hot tuna
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Re: SOL 2016/08/09 17:02:09 (permalink)
Well jack , I like C&R most times but not all the time . I dissed a well known fly shop after the new owner told me the only way I could stay there was a no kill limit . Rubbed me the wrong way if I chose to keep a trophy fish or edible trout . If that were the case then why should we have to pay for a license . In hunting I buy one just for the fact I can put food on the table , not to sit in a tree stand and shoot them with a camera , lol. Just ribbin ya .
A 1 species limit would work for me . . If they closed the zones I could deal with that also because I learned on the river prior to them but it would put me back in the expensive play to play or totally outta the shark game all together . .
As Uglyfish said , there is a LOT of great angling available , all within the same 180 mile or less distance I drive almost weekly to the Great Lake .
Still , in my beginnings , it was the area and Great Lake that drew me to there . The fishing was secondary .
i enjoy the summers there which I would otherwise just be sitting home waiting for the other 3 seasons . Currently I have no plans to change this and only to expand on that .

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
#78
r3g3
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Re: SOL 2016/08/09 17:13:56 (permalink)
Are they having similar issues on the Canada side and from Oak on up  ??
Rich- am not saying they would like it , but that they would have something to live with. Besides, Kings will still be there to a lesser degree as well.
post edited by r3g3 - 2016/08/09 17:15:22
#79
hot tuna
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Re: SOL 2016/08/09 17:59:02 (permalink)
Honestly I don't know the issues on the Canadian side . I assume the eastern basin was the indicator for most . The western end has a totally different program . They rely on a huge amount of pen rearing. Over there , it seems deep water , currents , temps and enough bait allow them to stick to that area until the spawn migration happens . Salmon don't always follow their natural instinct to return to their birthplace . They follow , bait , temps and schools .

Lakers might be the king of the queen of lakes ( lake George ) but will never fly on the Great Lake Ontario . It's chinook salmon that put people on charters . IMO , if the Kings crash , so would the charter industry which is very close to the peak days I recall in 1985 ish

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
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Clint S
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Re: SOL 2016/08/09 18:51:03 (permalink)
IMO enforcement is the best course of action. There are PLENTY of rippers that are very much into C&R. You know how many times I have seen a hen ripped off a nest then thrown back, only to be ripped back off again 10 minutes later wen the next guy wanders down. Especially in Orwell.  These fish end up croaking. Cutting socking will have an exponential effect on natural repo as there will be less fish to spawn because less fish will make it through the gauntlet.
Yes a speaker from Canada was at the SOL meeting last year ad there are issues there too.

The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb

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dimebrite2
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Re: SOL 2016/08/09 23:32:32 (permalink)
Wow, i'll have to try and catch up tomorrow... but leave it to me to get the pot stirred!!! Lol :)
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Clint S
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Re: SOL 2016/08/10 21:35:10 (permalink)
So I am tired. I made it to the meeting. As a person with no real ''stake'' in the lake and really listening with a nonbiased ear it was difficult to listen to many questions that were asked and answered multiple times, but not to the liking of the crowd. As  an outsider what was said made sense.    My livelihood does not depend on it and I know little to nothing about the lake so who am I to judge though.  There will be cuts, how much is undecided. There was no real new info given that was not given at the SOL.
Will post more tomorrow when I have ''digested '' what I heard.
post edited by Clint S - 2016/08/10 21:36:27

The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb

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twobob
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Re: SOL 2016/08/11 04:03:22 (permalink)
Thanks Clint!
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Clint S
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Re: SOL 2016/08/11 06:58:51 (permalink)
I will give it a try. First off it is NY and Ontario policy to keep Chinook the top of the food chain, they kept referring to a policy in place that pretty much makes it law (will add a bit more to that later)  As we know there is a bait problem with 2 and 3 yo alwives, during trawling these fish are virtually non existent.  The majority of bait for a Chinook is 4/5/6 year olds. This puts us at a bait issue for 17/18/19 as the old ones get eaten and die out there are no new ones to take their spot that are of size to feed Chinooks. Biggest issue is that the Chinook for those years are ALREADY IN THE LAKE.  So what's going to happen is going to happen. Not knowing what this winter and next will be they need to be proactive or it could get ugly. Stopping it from lasting years and years and the bait crashing is the basis of cutting. Like they said if they wanted to get rid of the Chinooks try would keep stocking and just let them eat all the bait and they would crash They are not afraid of a 'crash'' as the other lakes did,  because of a  the other lakes had a nutrient issue we do not have , we just have  bad winters.
This is installment one, I have to go to work.  Up next lake trout and other species as well as natural repo

The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb

#85
r3g3
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Re: SOL 2016/08/11 09:03:15 (permalink)
Thanks Clint- VERY glad to hear its about the BAIT-even though there seems, as most suspected, a bleak near term outlook.
Seems those huge runs of a couple of years back followed by record icing have hit the bait hard for a while.
post edited by r3g3 - 2016/08/11 09:04:45
#86
hot tuna
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Re: SOL 2016/08/11 20:52:30 (permalink)
Thank you Clint .
Lake was flat didn't catch a fish today . Left glasses on boat so have to read another day . Great Lake adventure so far , AWESOME !!
post edited by hot tuna - 2016/08/12 07:01:13

"whats that smell like fish oh baby" .. J. Kaukonen
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r3g3
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Re: SOL 2016/08/11 23:20:17 (permalink)
Hope you start to hit them Rich-
Can you still fish the discharge at the 10 Mile or did that go with the terrorist security changes.
When I started in 82 we used to go there and wade out as far as we could from the plant parking lot.
(hoping NOT to step off the slate ledges)
heck -guys would row drift boats from around the point to get there.
post edited by r3g3 - 2016/08/11 23:23:58
#88
Clint S
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Re: SOL 2016/08/12 06:15:31 (permalink)
I think it went bye, bye.  They will fire a warming shot though. We had no power last night so I will finish my thoughts tonight I hope. FWIW Rich the Canadian anglers at the meeting stated  fishing was the best in several years with boating sometimes 15-20 fish a day. I guess you need a bit more gas and time to get to them.  There were thoughts on that too...........

The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb

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Clint S
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Re: SOL 2016/08/12 18:33:08 (permalink)
Here is part 2.  Yes Trev  a rep (the main guy rom Ontario ) from Canada has been at every meeting so far. They kept staying through and through that the charter signed between Ontario and NY states that Chinook is o predator for the lake and it is like a law.  At the end  they said that in a few months the scientists will make their report about what they think should be cut, in turn NY and Ontario's DEC will look at those numbers and make a decision. Here is the big IF , IF THE DESCISION IS LEFT UP TO THEM. Twice he alluded that there may be some sort of higher up that could over rule them......................
Keep in mind we will be missing the 4,5  and 6 year alwife in the next few years.
Lake trout and stockings.
 
LT can and will eat other things, they will eat Goby, plankton and other things. If the alwifes crash they will suffer , but make it through, just not grow as fast. They also do not get big fast like Chinooks. Takes 5 plus years for a LT to eat a Alwife that is 4-6 yo. So any lake trout that is stocked will not compete with salmon that are mature in the hard years to come. The competing fish, like the salmon are already in the lake. So cutting LT stocking may only hurt charters even more if the salmon keep declining.  Meaning would you rather have Less salmon and less LT or less salmon and at least LT to catch. If bad winters continue LT cuts will be looked at.
More browns in the unused tanks that raise Chinooks. Can't happen as it takes 6 months or so to raise salmon and over a year to raise browns, there also is not enough cold water from the res and they are maxed out at cooling water to raise any more. Extra money too.
Coho and steel can get away with eating the smaller Alwifes too so they will remain at par.
Natural repo numbers were questioned as captains and fish cleaners (Shane ) said the numbers they have seen do not support numbers reported by DEC for fin clipped fish. 
Why is the fishing better to the north and why do the fish just come up and run and not stage like in years past. Water temps, nutrients?? These were brought up. They think that these fish are evolving into their wn strain and losing the instincts of their Pacific ancestors. They are working on also mixing about 10% wild eggs into the gene pool to keep it fresh.
Any question shoot them I may have heard something else you want to know.   

The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent in fishing.  ~Babylonian Proverb

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