PGC POWERS

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pikepredator2
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2015/12/03 13:03:00 (permalink)

PGC POWERS

Ok, this subject comes up with my buddies and I every year at this time, and that is exactly what rights do we have as home owners when it comes to WCOs?  I'm being told that here in PA they can access your home and freezer without a warrant.  I did some research on this and found this not to be true.  Yes, because of The Open Field Doctrine they can access your land at any time but still need a warrant for the curtilage and your house.  Some states do throw out the 4 Amendment and allow WCOs to enter your house without a warrant.  Not finding that here in PA though.   Any thoughts? 

Curtilage

The area, usually enclosed, encompassing the grounds and buildings immediately surrounding a home that is used in the dailyactivities of domestic life.
A garage, barn, smokehouse, chicken house, and garden are curtilage if their locations are reasonably near to the home. The determination of what constitutes curtilage is important for purposes of the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, which prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures of a person and of his or her home or property. Courts have construed the word home to include curtilage so that a person is protected against unlawful searches and seizures of his or her curtilage.
#1

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    ZelieSam
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    Re: PGC POWERS 2015/12/03 18:14:35 (permalink)
    Onboard for fun anecdotal answers.  It should be noted that much like police, WCOs are well trained in the art of bullying people into volunteering info and access.  Ever watch those wildlife cop shows?  "Just tell us how many illegal abalone you have in your freezer and we'll go easy on you."  
    #2
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: PGC POWERS 2015/12/03 19:38:13 (permalink)
    Sam, I'm not sure of the date but, I believe it was in the past 10 years; the PGC raided a rather large deer camp in Clearfield County.  To their surprise, a few very important people were nailed for illegal activities (some not related to hunting(rumor.. rumor)) at the camp. 
     
    Wasn't long after that, the PGC must follow the same procedures required by any law enforcement agency.  To my knowledge a WCO still holds the same power as that of a State Trooper.
     
    As for a "search warrant", wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find out the C/O has book full of em just waiting to be served.
     
    Now stop screwing around and get to work on the boat, spring is just around the corner.

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #3
    pikepredator2
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    Re: PGC POWERS 2015/12/04 07:35:07 (permalink)
    zelie, haven't seen the wildlife cop shows but I've now watched hundreds of youtube vids of bullying cops being put in their place by people with cameras.  they have no problem violating people's rights and they're being busted for it left and right now.
    #4
    r3g3
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    Re: PGC POWERS 2015/12/04 12:40:03 (permalink)
    Am a past l/e with over 28 years on the job- mostly in a narc unit where search warrants were a prominent part of our tool kit. Heck even taught warrant preparation.
    First- probable cause must be written into a warrant and then presented to a Judge to be signed and he agrees with your cause that the evidence is certainly there- NOW. Thinking its there or that it may be likely aint gonna cut it. Generally some witness to its location or some physical evidence has to SHOW its there NOW.
             This takes time to establish legal cause and then prepare the warrant and then to find a judge who   isn't otherwise busy or who is willing to be awoken at odd hours. Then it must be served in a  reasonable amount of time.
      Second=  the only exception to this Constitutional right to privacy in your home is 'exigent circumstance' wherein the evidence to be seized is likely to be  destroyed before  a warrant can be obtained.
     In court ya had better be prepared to absolutely be able to show the real likelihood of said destruction.
    Warrants take time and preparation and any threat to allow ingress 'or else' without one negates the evidence seized in court.
    It is NOT like TV where somebody calls up and says 'get a warrant' and proceeds to kick down a door.
    There may well be some State minor differences in whats considered cause but the right to privacy is Constitutional and the same Countrywide. It overpowers States.
      Folks love to make up stories bout l/e just showing up and kicking their way in but when ya peel back the layers it likely impossible to find the guy who actually had it happen to him- usually more like somebody claims to know somebody who actually had evidence in his house that got raided but the cops screwed up -again.
    Or the Court took it easy on them so they were really innocent and it was all a travesty they shoudnt have to have gone through. Just like the first time dope dealer getting a deal and claiming to have been  'set up' because he didn't pay a heavy fine or go to the clink. So he hadda be innocent.
    Unfortunately Courts all too often blow out fish and game violations when faced with limited resources and too many 'real' felons like burglars and robbers.
    Several Cousins and Uncles were Wardens and commonly lamented their fish and game violations getting a quick route in the courts. An extra Trout or too many pheasants was hard for the Court to compare to burglars also looking for lengthy trials- and the defendants Attys know it.
     
    post edited by r3g3 - 2015/12/04 12:42:54
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    ZelieSam
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    Re: PGC POWERS 2015/12/04 16:03:14 (permalink)
    So in 28 years, mostly working task force, you never once:
    - told someone that if they "told you the truth now" that you'd go easy on them, but that when you found out later they'd be screwed?
    - knocked on a door without a warrant just to talk to the homeowner, knowing that if they open the door and you see ANYTHING suspicious you are allowed entry?
    - leaned into a car so you could "hear the driver better" when you were really searching the car via sight and smell for illegal activity?
    - tried to talk a suspect into consenting to a search since they had "nothing to hide?"
     
    If you can say you never did any of those in a long career, you are truly a special snowflake.  And I'm not saying that there are never times when bad guys get caught because cops are doing a great job out there using these and other gray area tactics.  But I AM saying that the 4th amendment is a very good thing, and that all of us should know what it is and how it works for us.  And also the 5th, but that is better covered here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc  
     
    Oh, before someone calls me out for cop-hating, I don't hate all cops.  Most of them are fine, hard working and underpaid/under appreciated professionals doing a complex and often ****ty job while under danger and stress.  I've worked along side quite a few in my days in security and appreciated their assistance many times.  That said, there are far too many bad apples out there to just blanket trust the police any longer.  And don't get me started on the absurd waste of lives and money the "war on drugs" is.  What a crock.  
     
    Anyway, wasn't this about game wardens at some point? 
    #6
    Walleye jigs
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    Re: PGC POWERS 2015/12/04 16:17:23 (permalink)
    Regardless,r3g3 Thank you for your service! There's bad apples in every trade. There will always be people who let a little authority go to their heads.
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    r3g3
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    Re: PGC POWERS 2015/12/04 16:25:20 (permalink)
    That's right -we should just allow the drugs in and applaud our kids when they work their butts off just for a fix  or 10- oops after too many drugs they wont be able to work- unless burglary and robbery count, oops but when they are too sick they cant even do that.
    Talk to the parents of some druggies and see how much they would have liked some court mandated help after an arrest- before junior stole from them and before he got so sick and  died or became a zombie.
    Yea those narcs are the bad people.
    Did some of what you said--this aint kindergarten.
    Those nice druggies have kept me out from family on major holidays cancelled my vacations with family, shot at me, tried to stick me with knives, broke my bones and did some other real hurting. Didn't work in some nice little burg or ville, but a city.
     Adults who never had or wanted a job and a drug infested quagmire for blocks. Gangs, murder robbery and all for the almighty powder.
    Not banging drums here- its  way of L/E life for lots of us that too many don't see or understand so they sit home and hypothesize and pass judgment.
    We are way off track here on the forum -  will  go no further--
    post edited by r3g3 - 2015/12/04 16:28:37
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    pikepredator2
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    Re: PGC POWERS 2015/12/04 18:53:58 (permalink)
    any more info on what the WCOs can and cannot do?
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    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: PGC POWERS 2015/12/04 19:12:49 (permalink)
    Back to the original question; PGC officials have the same arresting powers as does the State Police.  However, at one time the PGC did not need follow the same protocol, as other law enforcement agencies.  Therefore, a PGC officer could walk right into your garage and check your wild game and you for, violations.  That being said, offenses other than game code violations usually resulted in turning the situation over to the local law enforcement agency.
     
    The issue of police powers stemmed from the days of yesteryear when law enforcement was not immediately available to us country folk;  allowing PGC personnel to respond and assist.
     
    Those powers remain today but, protocol must be followed.
     
    As for your right to privacy, try telling a news reporter that!

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #10
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