semi auto rifles

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dpms
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2015/07/13 09:13:02 (permalink)

semi auto rifles

There are a couple of bills floating around right now with decent steam.
 
One only allows them for coyotes and groundhogs. One allows the PGC to fuly regulate them for hunting. The PGC has testified that they support the legalization of semi auto rifles for hunting but would like full regulatory control of them. The expressed a desire to allow them only for limited species like coyotes and groundhogs and do not have any interest to allow them for big game.
 
Magazine capacity limits of 5 would be standard.
 
What say you all? We need something other than Sunday hunting to  argue about. 
 
 
post edited by dpms - 2015/07/13 19:13:19

My rifle is a black rifle
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    Big Tuna
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/13 17:49:50 (permalink)
    Yea I hear that too.
    #2
    Walleye jigs
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/13 19:31:40 (permalink)
    No need to practice, just throw 5 rounds out there as fast as you can and you're sure to hit something! Sorry guys but I'm old fashion, was taught with a 30/30 and only allouded one she'll. My grandfather was very strict about taking your time and not causing the animal to suffer.
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    anzomcik
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/13 20:21:58 (permalink)
    Why not just because you could be allowed to use them does not mean you have to use them.

    We are talking yotes and chucks not deer. But who has not heard a person fire off 5 shots in under 5 seconds deer hunting. How would that be any different? And I know people who miss turkeys with 3 shots and each shot has many pellets so no guarantees that 5 auto loaded shots equal a kill or hit.

    Responsible and ethical hunting will always be placed squarely on the shoulder of the hunter reguardless of the weapon they are using.

    All that said I do not own any auto loading weapon, I am not against them I chose not to own any.
    post edited by anzomcik - 2015/07/13 20:23:03
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    dpms
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/14 08:18:07 (permalink)
    Walleye jigs
    No need to practice, just throw 5 rounds out there as fast as you can and you're sure to hit something! Sorry guys but I'm old fashion, was taught with a 30/30 and only allouded one she'll. My grandfather was very strict about taking your time and not causing the animal to suffer.


    Funny thing is many of the "old fashion" hunters carry pump guns and lever guns. Both are capable of pretty rapid fire. Not sure why you choose to make the assumption that folks that choose one action type don't practice compared to other action types? Regardless of the action chosen, the first shot is usually the best opportunity.

    There are plenty of hunters in this state that throw five rounds out there as fast as they can. Many are using lever guns, such as yours.

    It is up to the individual to choose their shots wisely and hunt in a responsible manner. The gun does not act on its own.

    Is it the user or the gun? If you are going to take the position that it is the gun, such as you are, that is the same angle the anti gunners take.
    post edited by dpms - 2015/07/14 15:51:00

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #5
    fishin coyote
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/14 08:41:22 (permalink)
    I support this as well, although I'd like to see small game added to the list.  Mike

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    dpms
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/14 09:44:10 (permalink)
    fishin coyote
    I support this as well, although I'd like to see small game added to the list.  Mike


    Yep. Me too. That is why I prefer the bill that allows the PGC to regulate them as they see fit. Would be nice to have the option of taking a 22 cal autoloader hunting.

    At this point, any bill that moves it forward in some way is a good thing.

    My rifle is a black rifle
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    S-10
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/14 12:01:32 (permalink)
    There is no doubt if it passes it will only take a couple years before they are legal for everything. I take a slightly different position than jigs. There will be many more people jerking of five fast ones just to hear the gun go off rather than take their time. That just gives me a heads up that one is coming my way. Kind of like hunting NY with the semi-auto shotguns loaded with five.
     
    I once watched a kid fire five shots with a lever action 30-30 at a buck running across a REA electric line less than 60 feet wide. You just know how many of those were hits lol.
     
    I don't own one, I don't want one, I have no problem with those that do. They do look like they would be fun if you had deep pockets and could find enough ammo.
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    dpms
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/14 15:54:38 (permalink)
    S-10
    There is no doubt if it passes it will only take a couple years before they are legal for everything. 



     
    Surely a possibility. Where they are legal, most choose other actions types anyway. Once they can be used and no dark cloud engulfs us all, they may be slowly expanded. 
     
    Semiautomatic shotguns shooting saboted ammunition have been legal in the SRA for years which happens to be our densest populated and heaviest hunted areas of the state. No issues. You can use a tactical assault semiautomatic shotgun designed for breaching with unlimited mag capacity already in these areas for deer. Most still use pump guns. 

    My rifle is a black rifle
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    S-10
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/14 17:49:26 (permalink)
    One of my in-laws and I used to argue over which was faster, my Winchester 1400 semi or his Remington pump. Finally we bet on it. Don't know how he did it but he shucked three faster than I did. If they made those new rifles a soothing light green rather than scary black and grey the liberals wouldn't know how to react. It's the looks that make them deadly you know. lol
    post edited by S-10 - 2015/07/14 17:51:45
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    Dr. Trout
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/14 18:15:37 (permalink)
    I have a beautiful Winchester semi-automatic 22 rifle that was given to me and I have never fired it .... If I can't use it for hunting why waste ammo shooting and sighting it in for that purpose.  I'd love to be able to hunt squirrels with it... and I am sure I would never use the "semi-automatic" feature of the rifle....most of my squirrels get hit with one shot from my 22 bolt action Glenfield model 25 bolt action .... 
     
    not having to "run" the bolt just may keep a second squirrel close by ...LOL
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    S-10
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/14 19:27:14 (permalink)
    I wonder if they will change the law on shotgun capacity statewide if they go to five in a semi rifle.
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    DarDys
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/15 07:18:47 (permalink)
    I don't own a semi rifle either. But see no issue with them, especially in .22 for squirrels. Bet there are a lot of guys with tricked out Ruger 10/22's that would like to use them.

    On the center fire front, it might be nice for the slight of build and those that are recoil sensitive to be able to shoot a slightly larger caliber due to the dampened recoil of a semi.

    As for just slinging lead, lead slingers will be lead slingers, no matter the platform. The Remmington pump rifle didn't become "the PA deer rifle" because of its ease of handling, accuracy, good looks, and being quiet in the woods, but rather because of the speed of operation. A guy I am acquainted with has one complete with a see-through plastic magazine that holds an entire box, yes 20 rounds, of .243.

    So, in essence, I don't care.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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    dpms
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/15 08:00:58 (permalink)
    S-10
    One of my in-laws and I used to argue over which was faster, my Winchester 1400 semi or his Remington pump. Finally we bet on it. Don't know how he did it but he shucked three faster than I did. If they made those new rifles a soothing light green rather than scary black and grey the liberals wouldn't know how to react. It's the looks that make them deadly you know. lol


    As far as the military style, they come in all kinds of colors these days. Drab olive, to dark brown, tan, various camos. I bet most non hunters would not even know the difference if the saw a hunter with a bolt gun and one with a BAR.

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #14
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/15 08:38:17 (permalink)
     

                                                                                          
       
        
     
    Oh...............  silly me........... the PGC hasn't legalized hunting elephants in PA.                                                                                                                                                                   

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #15
    eyesandgillz
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/15 10:20:58 (permalink)
    Only issue I have, shouldn't limit the magazine capacity. 
    Have no problems with semi-autos.  Many states already allow them and have no/minimal issues.
    I do know, if the wild pigs finally take off and start tearing the state up, the PGC & Legislature will wish semi-autos were legal.
    here piggy piggy, here piggy piggy!
     
    S-10, many decent AR's out there now that cost way less than a decent, accurate bolt action rifle with a scope.
     
    Ammo, well, yeah, that can get expensive if you shoot a lot.  
    #16
    DarDys
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/15 10:37:56 (permalink)
    BeenThereDoneThat.
                                                                                                   Oh...............  silly me........... the PGC hasn't legalized hunting elephants in PA.                                                                                                                                                                   


    Yes they did. You just can't find where to purchase the permit, not a license or tag, but a permit (like DMA2) on the website. I believe that it costs $6.70.

    But make sure you read the rules. Since ivory is a no-no, only tusk-less are permitted and there are different TLR (tail length restrictions) based on which WMU, SRA, DMAP, DMA, M-O-U-S-E you plan on hunting.

    The poster formally known as Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion.
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    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/15 12:09:37 (permalink)
    Thanks DarDys..............  it will be nice to thin those critters down.  It's a bit frustrating stepping in their droppings!
     
    Also, should be easier for the mentored youth (daddies too) to hit a bigger running target while squeezing off multiple rounds!  
     
    That five shot limit shouldn't hinder bagging one of the critters considering, the ease of split second dropping and re locking clips with an A/R.  Plus, five shot clips ain't that expensive....... what a deal!
     
    I Better get while the gettin's good, I hear rumbling.....................

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #18
    wayne c
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/18 16:06:27 (permalink)
    I don't support.   I have hunted in states, like WV where semis are legal for deer and have seen some extremely ugly incidents of idiocy and spray and pray techniques during deer season that far exceed anything Ive seen in Pa.   Family and friends have also had bad experiences, yet none of us have had similar scenarios in Pa to the specifics I speak of even though we hunt and have hunted 100X the hours in Pa and we have more hunters here.      And yes, it would end up for deer as always, as the ultimate "goal".   And to leave it up to pgc is pure stupidity.    You may as well just open them up for everything instead.   Either limit the use in legislation such as the bill permitting predators etc. only, or whatever restrictions, or just open it all up and make them just another legal firearm.   No reason for the comedic theatrics of going through all the fussing, only to do it all again with pgc having the say and them doing whatever they want anyway.   The only reason its even discussed as just "giving pgc the say" is that it puts less pressure on legislators to make the right decision on a very controversial issue.    Passing the buck hoping that it could lead to being more easily passed by some legislators who are currently under pressure to not pass it.     
     
    Personally, my vote is to keep it as is.   I would support for predators only but would have concerns and would be my 2nd choice.  Opening up for everything I don't support, but wouldn't kick and scream if it does life will go on I guess even under less than ideal circumstances.    On the other hand, we don't need to have sundays & semis ready to put into action on the doe herd as soon as the deer forest study is finished or the world will end.      Whatever happens, happens.    Next comes push by many of the same people for the Saturday opener for rifle to add more time to kill even more deer, and the beat goes on...
    post edited by wayne c - 2015/07/18 16:23:16


    #19
    wayne c
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/18 16:08:38 (permalink)
    I do know, if the wild pigs finally take off and start tearing the state up,

     
    Not a relevant concern.     If you think it is, then point out another state as far north as we are that has pigs taking over the state.     Hint; there are none.    That's before we even add in our hunter numbers per square mile compared to pretty much all others.    Its not gonna happen.     -Ever.


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    dpms
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/19 09:04:07 (permalink)
    wayne c
    I don't support.   I have hunted in states, like WV where semis are legal for deer and have seen some extremely ugly incidents of idiocy and spray and pray techniques during deer season that far exceed anything Ive seen in Pa.   Family and friends have also had bad experiences, yet none of us have had similar scenarios in Pa to the specifics I speak of even though we hunt and have hunted 100X the hours in Pa and we have more hunters here.

     
    Of course, the bogus safety card is pulled. Here in Pa, we allow autoloading shotguns shooting single projectile ammo for deer in our heaviest hunted and highest populated areas of the state. The ultimate litmus test is here. Add to that the Pa specific study that showed that single projectile ammo from shotguns is more dangerous than single projectile high velocity, yet we allow single projectile shotgun ammo for deer in our highest populated areas. 
     
    Is it the firearm or the person behind it? Hmmmm.... Despite all of these reported issues by some of the same folks, there is simply no evidence to support the hypothesis that semiautomatic actions are more dangerous to their users, those around them, or the public when it comes to hunting.  
     
    Give it up, man.
     
    And yes, it would end up for deer as always, as the ultimate "goal".

     
    Once again Mr. focused on deer opposes anything that might kill a deer. 
     
    Give it up, man.
     
     And to leave it up to pgc is pure stupidity.

     
    I would assume then that you feel that the PGC should not be regulating archery equipment, shotguns, or manually operated rifles for hunting? How stupid is that, lol!! All of a sudden it should be different for autoloading rifles. 
     
    Give it up, man.
     
    You may as well just open them up for everything instead.   Either limit the use in legislation such as the bill permitting predators etc. only, or whatever restrictions, or just open it all up and make them just another legal firearm.   No reason for the comedic theatrics of going through all the fussing, only to do it all again with pgc having the say and them doing whatever they want anyway.

     
    Which is why I support a full regulatory transfer as the best option. As does the PGC. Data from around this country, and in Pa. supports their use for hunting    
     
    Personally, my vote is to keep it as is.

     
    Of course it is. A BAR might kill a deer.
     
    Give it up, man.
     
    I would support for predators only but would have concerns and would be my 2nd choice.

     
    HB223. Did you send your support?
     
    On the other hand, we don't need to have sundays & semis ready to put into action on the doe herd as soon as the deer forest study is finished or the world will end.      Whatever happens, happens.    Next comes push by many of the same people for the Saturday opener for rifle to add more time to kill even more deer, and the beat goes on...



    Back to it might kill a deer. 
     
    Give it up, man......
    post edited by dpms - 2015/07/19 11:25:11

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #21
    BeenThereDoneThat.
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/19 12:52:43 (permalink)
    dpms I have, in the past, enjoyed reading your opinion, hunting stories and, seeing your pictures.  But lately, it seems, you are straining to defend or, make your point.  Challenging the thoughts and opinions of others is a natural reaction to any comment no matter what the subject.  What I don't get is "give it up man" or "HB 223 Did you send support" in response to another's opinion.  Those remarks have me wondering if you become easily irritated with anyone that may oppose your dreams and desires?  Like you, others have their dreams and wish to make them known be they, newly introduced ideas or, just plain old school.
     
    Hunting PA.,  once looked upon as a heritage, has changed dramatically the past fifteen years.  Changes that made no common sense and 'old school sportsman' find difficult to accept.   Changes that produced money wasting studies, bogus data, along with, smoke and mirror articles written by self proclaimed experts writing for hunting magazines.  Many 'old schoolers' see nothing more than B.S. being spewed by the PGC regarding all the changes that has occurred with hunting.
     
    It's easy to see the compassion, in the comments of those who have enjoyed hunting the PA. Wilds, in days gone by.   It is easy to see the compassion in the comments of the younger generation that learned and continue to honor  the 'old school tradition'.  Those were the days when fair chase was a rule, a quick clean kill was a priority and, 'eat what you killed' was the reason for hunting.
     
    Likewise, it is easy to see the compassion of those seeking changes with hunting the PA. Wilds.  A compassion for taking as many animals as one can shoot using whatever device they seem appropriate.  A compassion for, "it's all about me, look what I did" kill for the thrill  (using the term lightly) hunter.
     
    Geez, sorry about the rant but, I'm a bit confused as, my vision is a bit blurred seeing your compassion!
     
    I do enjoy a good debate but, lack the desire to highlight each and every comment made before making my response so, I will give my rebuttal in advance, to any future opinion on your part.
     
    Why?
     
    Take care and happy hunting.
     
     

    Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
     
     
     
      Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
     
    #22
    dpms
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/19 14:04:34 (permalink)
    BeenThereDoneThat.
    dpms I have, in the past, enjoyed reading your opinion, hunting stories and, seeing your pictures.  But lately, it seems, you are straining to defend or, make your point.  Challenging the thoughts and opinions of others is a natural reaction to any comment no matter what the subject.  What I don't get is "give it up man" or "HB 223 Did you send support" in response to another's opinion.  Those remarks have me wondering if you become easily irritated with anyone that may oppose your dreams and desires?  Like you, others have their dreams and wish to make them known be they, newly introduced ideas or, just plain old school.

     
    Some history, my friend.  I save my best for only a certain few.   Not irritated in the least but maybe my passion about certain issues gets the best of me.  
     
    Good debate ensures a better outcome.  Some have the stomach for it and others don't. As long as it remains civil, all is good. 
    post edited by dpms - 2015/07/19 14:55:16

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #23
    S-10
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/19 15:11:30 (permalink)
    Wayne is probably using what we have seen as the outcome of letting the PGC regulate various aspects of hunting and the relationships with the non hunting and anti-hunting segment of the population as the basis for his comments. And yes, it is a lot about the deer and should be as the DEER is the engine that drives it all at the present time in spite of the PGC's best attempts to sideline the hunters and deer in favor of non-hunting activities.
    In my opinion you do get very much like the liberals when they don't get what they want with the (settled science claim, ignore facts that don't fit your agenda, name calling , etc.) I still well remember the crossgun discussions and Sunday hunting issues from the past.
    The PGC really should regulate hunting and firearms, it's too bad we can't trust them to do so in a manner that helps the hunter.
    #24
    dpms
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/19 16:01:29 (permalink)
    S-10
    Wayne is probably using what we have seen as the outcome of letting the PGC regulate various aspects of hunting and the relationships with the non hunting and anti-hunting segment of the population as the basis for his comments. And yes, it is a lot about the deer and should be as the DEER is the engine that drives it all at the present time in spite of the PGC's best attempts to sideline the hunters and deer in favor of non-hunting activities.
    In my opinion you do get very much like the liberals when they don't get what they want with the (settled science claim, ignore facts that don't fit your agenda, name calling , etc.) I still well remember the crossgun discussions and Sunday hunting issues from the past.
    The PGC really should regulate hunting and firearms, it's too bad we can't trust them to do so in a manner that helps the hunter.



    Lets all just remember though that there are ebbs and flows with game management. It is the same PGC that has allowed deer numbers to greatly increase and greatly decrease over the years. If we had deer numbers now like we had in 1997, much of the current hate and distrust for the PGC would not be there. At that time, the same PGC was in control. 
     
    One cannot pick and choose when it is best for game agencies to regulate hunting across this country. You either believe the wildlife in this country is better off with game agencies regulating it, or you believe politicians would do a better job. 
     
    Some ignore the big picture and wild ebbs and flows over the years in these discussions. Instead choosing to focus on one point in time, at the expense of our sport. That is if you believe game agencies should be regulating hunting in this country. For those that believe game is best managed by politicians, they will continue to fight to keep politicians in charge with regulating our sport. Or they have no issues with their hypocritical and contradictory positions. 
     
    For those that support political regulation of hunting, what should the role of the PGC be? 
     
     
     
    post edited by dpms - 2015/07/19 16:03:58

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #25
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/19 17:20:15 (permalink)
    ROLE OF PG==Manage the game lands and set seasons and bag limits to control wildlife for the maximum sustained harvest of game animals and birds. Secondary role should be to manage non game species to maintain adequate numbers with emphasis on threatened species.  Before the enviro's   took control that is what they did.
    #26
    wayne c
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/19 17:48:28 (permalink)
    Lets all just remember though that there are ebbs and flows with game management.

     
    I'll put my support for a few less planned for and not at all random "ebbs" thanks.
     
    Those ebbs and flows are created by goals and by legislation and regulations either being passed or not passed.    Exactly like now.   That's thee big picture.

     
     


    #27
    wayne c
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/19 18:01:06 (permalink)
    Oh, there are people obsessed with deer (and its about being anti and not pro deer) when it comes to pushing for or against issues my friend, but its not me. lol    I'm just the bearer of the news.   Don't shoot the messenger.
     
    And as for the purpose of the game commission, sorry, but as long as they have so many envirowhackos internally and also have people like they do running the deer management section, frankly I don't see any use for them as it pertains to deer management.   With payoff attempts to ex exec director, antihunter sentiment within the agency on more than one occaission.   Antideer envirocrazy sentiment over the last decade and a half.  etc.   They have proven beyond all shadow of doubt why they need more political oversight, not less.
    post edited by wayne c - 2015/07/19 18:05:07


    #28
    dpms
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/19 18:03:10 (permalink)
    S-10
    ROLE OF PG==Manage the game lands and set seasons and bag limits to control wildlife for the maximum sustained harvest of game animals and birds. Secondary role should be to manage non game species to maintain adequate numbers with emphasis on threatened species.  Before the enviro's   took control that is what they did.



     
    So which is it? Game agencies regulating hunting in this country or politicians?
     
     
     
     
     
     

    My rifle is a black rifle
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    dpms
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    Re: semi auto rifles 2015/07/19 18:08:47 (permalink)
    wayne c
    Oh, there are people obsessed with deer (and its about being anti and not pro deer) when it comes to pushing for or against issues my friend, but its not me. lol    I'm just the bearer of the news.   Don't shoot the messenger.



    It is well known there are folks in positions of power obsessed with deer. Both on the more deer and less deer side. No earth shaking news there. 
     
    The discussion was your obsession with anything that may result in someone killing one more deer. Never mind all of the other stuff a potential change may impact. If it may cause one more deer to die, the cement wall goes up at all cost.  Since we are calling each other friends now. That, my friend, is the root of all of your positions. I hate to be the bearer of such information to you. 

    My rifle is a black rifle
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