Helpful ReplyHot!_________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!!

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2014/10/12 23:38:05 (permalink)

_________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!!

Wow the Browns hand it to the Steelers.....

The Eagles just thumped the Giants.......

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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/13 11:41:49 (permalink)
walcat
The Rooney's better wake up!!!!!!! Time for heads to roll!!!!!


Time for 'Steeler Nation' to wake up and let the Rooneys know enough is enough. Time for heads to roll and, the time is now............

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/13 14:37:15 (permalink)
Who's heads?  This team mortgaged their future during their 10 or so year run as Super Bowl contenders.  It worked out great, but now and the past few years are the time to pay for it, likely 1-2 more until they are in the true contender area again, depending on what they do with Ben contract wise.  They had guys rework their contracts for years to stay under the cap, and now they are paying for it.  Unable to pay for talent that they know they are lacking at positions.  Even cutting the veterans on the team, they are still paying for many of them in terms of cap.  Their defense was suspect to start the season, and only slightly underacheiving of what they were projected to do (especially losing Taylor, Jarvis Jones and Shazier to injuries).  Their drafts haven't panned out, but almost always walk away from the draft with great grades by "the experts".  That said, many of their draft picks are pretty good and others are still too young to know for sure.  I wouldn't doubt they are above average in draft picks panning out, compared to the remainder of the league.  Their offense this year, was supposed to bail their defense out, until the youth of the defense started to pick things up (or hopefully picks things up).  The offense is just not scoring.  Play calling in the red zone is rather predictable (not sure if Haley or Ben or both), and way too many dropped passes/bad throws.  To be .500 during rebuilding is actually rather impressive though.  If that .500 drops for more than a year or so, then it's time to panic.  Cowher power went through a good stretch of rebuilding, Noll went through a few stretches as well (80s were pretty rough).  One thing the Rooneys do well, is not panic and don't try to "fix" things right away, which is usually a recipe for making a deeper hole in the future.  That is what the owners in Washington, Oakland, Cleveland and many other markets do.  That all said, I wouldn't doubt if this is Lebeau's last year.  Haley could mix things up a bit more or find himself looking for another job.  Having Munchak as O line coach might be a bit tempting for the Stillers to part ways, promote within and give some change if they feel needed.  Tomlin needs to make players a bit more accountable.  This last game, it wasn't the ridiculous penalties that cost them the game, so seems like that has been addressed, at least short term.  If that seems to be a problem that persists, then there might be a legitimate reason for him to be on the hot seat.  Other than that, unless there is a complete meltdown, i.e. losing many more of their remaining games like this past week, I can't see the Stillers parting ways with Tomlin.  The next 3 games will prove a lot though.  Higher quality opponents, which the Stillers always seem to play to their competition, and I'm sure they are embarassed over losing to the Browns (who they've owned for about 15 years).  They just happened to play to the Browns of 3 years ago yesterday...  The Browns have been rebuilding for a long time.  They have an average team on the rise.  If they didn't have to worry about off the field issues with Gordon and didn't waste so many picks on suspect QBs, they likely would be a true contender this year.  For their sake, if they end up under .500, they aren't making heads roll again, and trying to start over, again.  Although, I bet they do, and end up living in the AFC North cellar for a few more years. 
 
That all said, I am not really a fan of Tomlin.  I didn't think it was a great hire at the time.  There is a lot more to it than "he only won with Cowher's players", that I've heard thousands of time.  Although partially true, it wasn't Tomlin that reworked their deals to stick around, mortgaging the future of the franchise.  If he is going to be blamed for the team's short comings due to the cap issues, he gets credit for leading many of the same players to a Super Bowl victory, followed by another Superbowl appearance a few seasons later.  Remember, Cowher took "his team" to an 8-8 record the year prior to Tomlin taking over.  Cowher also "inheritted" a pretty good squad from Noll, that he had early success with, until their time came to rebuild.  I'm sure many were giving credit to Noll for Cowher's first few years as well?  Probably not as many, due to the 10+ years of below average success Noll had.  I'd be extremely shocked if Tomlin wasn't given an oppertunity to rebuild.  Especially with just about any survey of NFL players of who they would like to play for, always being Tomlin.
 
The NFL with the cap and other rules changes, is a parity league.  .500 is an average team.  If a team can stay average at a time it is rebuilding, and not dropping to the level of Jacksonville or Oakland (or Cleveland of the past decade), multiple Superbowl wins and appearances, one of the best records of the past 15 years, they're doing something right.  Heads rolling, sure, that fits the Stiller mould to success...
post edited by Porktown - 2014/10/13 15:28:38
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/13 15:18:37 (permalink)
Katy Perry is going to the Super Bowl!!

Fishmonger
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/13 22:10:27 (permalink)
Tomlin couldn't continue to build on a solid foundation. Will be interesting to see what he does starting from the ground up.

Nothing new about the offense not getting it done in the red zone. That's certainly has been a problem that began to plaque Arians after the 2nd attempt at the Super Bowl. My 'knee jerk' reaction was to accuse Bruce of getting a swelled head and creating the red zone problem. I certainly stand corrected on that subject.

Haley walked into this red zone problem with what he thought would be a game changing plan. I do believe Todd was blindsided by a lack of cooperation. Where or why the cooperation failed; not sure but, was it not Ben who said he and Todd were able to come to a understanding this year.

As for Tomlin not enforcing discipline; he certainly does, he took away ping pong priviledges ,or was it foos ball, in the club house last year!!

Sorry, can't buy this salary cap thing as a reason for losing key seasoned players. Nor can I accept it as a excuse for the chronic problem of not scoring in the red zone.

Many are quick to forget just how long the red zone problem has been happening. Many refuse to accept the truth and will use any excuse to defend their opinion or actions. Personally I see discipline being used as an excuse for poor leadership.

Poor leadership breeds 'lack of respect' commonly seen as, 'discipline problems' by poor leaders.

Losing repect= losing dedication= losing players.

In the mean time I'm paying attention to Arizona. The Cardinals seem to be able to score touchdowns from the red zone.

Just sayin'

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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/13 23:44:06 (permalink)
49rs 31........ Rams 17

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/14 09:12:04 (permalink)
BeenThereDoneThat.
Tomlin couldn't continue to build on a solid foundation. 

 
2006 - 8-8 (Cowher's final season)
 
2007 - 10-6
2008 - 12-4, Super Bowl win - Tomlin named coach of the year
2009 - 9-7
2010 - 12-4, lost Super Bowl
2011 - 12-4, lost to Tim Tebow in Wild Card
2012 - 8-8
2013 - 8-8
 
Obviously, Tomlin is only responsible for the loss to Tim Tebow in 2011 until the current situation. 
post edited by Porktown - 2014/10/14 09:18:18
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/14 10:17:01 (permalink)
Right you are....... It was the TEAM that won. A TEAM that wanted to play football...... A TEAM that wanted to play together. A TEAM that didn't lose good players and coaches to other clubs.

There is no 'I' in TEAM and Mr.Tomlin should know that.

As for Mr. Cowher; until Ben came along, who did he have for a quarterback? Keep in mind, the comments made by Mr. Cowher regarding the plays called by Ben when the TEAM won that Super Bowl. People still wonder why Bill quit after he finally got a Super Bowl TEAM. Did he really want to leave?

Sorry, Mr. Tomlin was handed a football TEAM having a very solid foundation and he benefited by it. Can he rebuild from the ground up? That will certainly remain to be seen.

For the sake of the TEAM and Steeler Nation; I hope I have to eat my words. The salt and pepper is on the table.

Gooooo Stillers. {:-}
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2014/10/14 10:22:13

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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/14 10:29:31 (permalink)
BeenThereDoneThat.
Sorry, can't buy this salary cap thing as a reason for losing key seasoned players. Nor can I accept it as a excuse for the chronic problem of not scoring in the red zone.

If you are ignoring it, then you aren't following the entire game.  It's much easier to point out weaknesses and blame coaches for it.  The Rooney's know the dynamics, and why they keep coaches around for variables that they have no control over.  The Stillers know their weaknesses, and knew of most of them prior to the season starting.  They just weren't able to address them the way they would like, without the ability to pay for it.  Do you honestly think they were confident in their starting secondary?  Signing Kiesel before the season started, shows their confidence in their D line as well.  With going out and signing two washed up WRs for depth, do you think they were confident in their recieving corps either?  Dropped balls has a good bit to do with their red zone efficiency.  If you can cover 1-1, that puts an extra guy in to stop the run or rush the passer.  That efficiency wasn't there when they were making deep playoff runs, paying guys with future money to keep them around.  If you don't think they'd rather have Emmanual Sanders or another relatively sure handed reciever (maybe Heinz Ward, probably just gave a few of you the warm and fuzzies reading his name), over Weaton or Brown, you are kidding yourself.  Just like taking out a loan, eventually, you have to live a bit more modestly and pay off the debt.  That is what they have been forced to do for the past couple of years. 
 
I'd rather them come out 6-10 than scratch out another 8-8 season (wish they would have done that last year).  Their last true high draft choice was Big Ben.  They traded up, and got Troy Polamalu the next year.  After that, was Jarvis Jones last year and Ryan Sazier this year were also relatively high, and when they are on the field, they are both pretty good, especially for how young.  If they both can recover and stay healthy, their defense will be very good again.  They'll need to figure out something at NT and then address the secondary.  Although, back when Woodley, Harrison and crew were getting constant pressure, they made the secondary look a lot better than it was.  Not sure if that would be the case with this group, but they couldn't look much worse.
 
That all said, if Belichek was the coach, I think they'd probably be 4-2 or possibly 5-1.  Possibly 3-4 other coaches in the NFL have them as true contenders now as well.  If they were able to somehow land one of these guys, sure, time for a change.  But, is that reality?  I'd love for them to grab Aaron Rogers, Calvin Johnson & JJ Watt as well...  I think Tomlin is a top 10 coach, definitely good enough to be back in championship contention when they are able to reload this team.
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/14 10:44:10 (permalink)
Bill Cowher inheritted a Super Bowl calibre team.  Probably his best defensive unit of his tenure.  Niel O'Donnell wasn't as good as Ben, but much better than many QBs that have won a Super Bowl, surrounded by a great TEAM.  No I in team right?  You do recall 92-97, going to the playoffs every year, only once not being the 1st in the division.  I believe that is a Stillers all time record for consecutive playoff appearances.  A very, very good team.
 
If you want to make an arguement that Bill Cowher was a better coach than Tomlin, sure, you have a valid arguement.  One that would definitely need to see Tomlin go through a rebuilding process that Cowher had to endure between 97 playoffs and 2000 season.  One that I'm sure Cowher was getting the same heat that Tomlin is now.  Maybe not as much, since Cowher was a hometown guy and, well, ummm, yeah...
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/14 11:09:54 (permalink)
I believe you brought Mr.Cowher into the discussion trying to defend Mr. Tomlin.

My thought centers around the present situation; that being, the erosion of a once solid foundation. A foundation built by respect and dedication for the good of the team. A foundation built by a team that is not spelled with an 'I'.

I'm giving Mr. Tomlin the 'benefit of the doubt' but, I gotta wonder, can he rebuild when he couldn't keep the foundation he had? Not wise to rebuild on a eroded foundation; somtimes ya gotta move on.

Just wondering; if you follow other teams like the Arizona Cardinals?

Go Stillers!! Go Pens!!!

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/14 12:23:02 (permalink)
That foundation built by team and not spelled with an I, had guys like Greg Lloyd, Joey Porter, Plaxico Burress, Bam Morris, and others that did some very, very questionable things, that wouldn't really have many thinking team player.  I don't see anything on the current team that seems to point to more individualism than when Cowher was around.  I don't see any guys on this team, that are out there as attention seaking as Joey Porter or Lethon Flowers were (who likely wouldn't have much of a career with the rules changes).  I think the media in general is showing a lot more in depth of these guys off of the field now, which is changing perception.  Most of that off the field nonsense has been around for a long time.  Give a disrespectful kid that is good at sports, positive attention his whole life for only being good at a sport, then give him $Ms and he's likely not going to be a team player and disrespectful adult.  Don't try to pretend this is something new to the Stillers picking up that sort of player.  Maybe back in the good old days of the 70's (Mean Joe Greene was definitely a good guy and guys wearing goldfish in their shoes wasn't attention seaking).  Winning usually has people look the other way.  Cowher and Tomlin each have done a good bit of winning.  I don't recall any of this banter 2-3 years ago.
 
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/14 13:25:44 (permalink)
Correct again...........

2-3 years ago fans still had faith in the Stillers as the foundation appeared to remain stable. That foundation has now crumbled and will need to be rebuilt from the ground up.

What I don't get is; why people make excuses for poor leadership quality that's as plain as the nose on their face. Also, why do people, such as yourself, lean on the past to defend their opinions. Mr. Cowher has nothing to do with todays Stillers. That responsibility remains (unfortunately) with Mr. Tomlin.

The proof is in the pudding; the writing is on the wall, the charts show the story, etc. But, in the end it's the team with the most points that wins when the clock runs out.

Just one other point; Mr. Tomlin only needed to worry about the offense scoring in the red zone which, has been a chronic problem. What's he gonna do when he loses one of the best (if not the best) defensive coordinators in the NFL?.

Gotta stick by my concern, but have not given up hope. I just don't see Mr. Tomlin rebuilding the foundation required to match the TEAM he had handed to him.

Enjoying the chat..........

Gooo Stillers!!!!.... Gooo Pens!!!

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/14 14:15:05 (permalink)
BeenThereDoneThat.
What I don't get is; why people make excuses for poor leadership quality that's as plain as the nose on their face. Also, why do people, such as yourself, lean on the past to defend their opinions. Mr. Cowher has nothing to do with todays Stillers. That responsibility remains (unfortunately) with Mr. Tomlin.

We are talking about the Stiller's organization, whos owners aren't going anywhere.  We all know how they operate with coaching, that is very unlikely to change.  So comparing new coach to old coach, is much more apples to apples than comparing new coach to other team coach from a different organization.  I think the Stillers success over the past 40 years has many other organizations wishing they were apples to apples comparison with their organization.  I think their overall records speak for themself.
 
Your Stillers foundation talk is now just getting ridiculous.
 
Excuse me, while I take my neighbors trampoline from my back yard...
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/14 15:26:08 (permalink)
Porktown
BeenThereDoneThat.
Sorry, can't buy this salary cap thing as a reason for losing key seasoned players. Nor can I accept it as a excuse for the chronic problem of not scoring in the red zone.

If you are ignoring it, then you aren't following the entire game.  It's much easier to point out weaknesses and blame coaches for it.  The Rooney's know the dynamics, and why they keep coaches around for variables that they have no control over.  The Stillers know their weaknesses, and knew of most of them prior to the season starting.  They just weren't able to address them the way they would like, without the ability to pay for it.  Do you honestly think they were confident in their starting secondary?  Signing Kiesel before the season started, shows their confidence in their D line as well.  With going out and signing two washed up WRs for depth, do you think they were confident in their recieving corps either?  Dropped balls has a good bit to do with their red zone efficiency.  If you can cover 1-1, that puts an extra guy in to stop the run or rush the passer.  That efficiency wasn't there when they were making deep playoff runs, paying guys with future money to keep them around.  If you don't think they'd rather have Emmanual Sanders or another relatively sure handed reciever (maybe Heinz Ward, probably just gave a few of you the warm and fuzzies reading his name), over Weaton or Brown, you are kidding yourself.  Just like taking out a loan, eventually, you have to live a bit more modestly and pay off the debt.  That is what they have been forced to do for the past couple of years. 
 
I'd rather them come out 6-10 than scratch out another 8-8 season (wish they would have done that last year).  Their last true high draft choice was Big Ben.  They traded up, and got Troy Polamalu the next year.  After that, was Jarvis Jones last year and Ryan Sazier this year were also relatively high, and when they are on the field, they are both pretty good, especially for how young.  If they both can recover and stay healthy, their defense will be very good again.  They'll need to figure out something at NT and then address the secondary.  Although, back when Woodley, Harrison and crew were getting constant pressure, they made the secondary look a lot better than it was.  Not sure if that would be the case with this group, but they couldn't look much worse.
 


You are 100% correct in your perspective, porktown.  This post & your first one are spot on.
 
This has been a compounding problem that some of us have known was coming for years, I'm surprised it's taken this long to show itself on the field.  I'm talking about the pushing the salaries forward to "renegotiate" all those contracts all those late Cowher/Early Tomlin years.  Those of you who don't know what we're talking about should educate yourself on how the finances work, before spouting about "leadership" and that kind of garbage.
 
The team can't win... because they don't have the talent to win.  It's not complicated.  Why would they sign free agents Brice McCain (graded as the worst CB in the NFL last season), Cam Thomas (lost his starting job on the Chargers last season), Darius Heyward Bey (a fast running never was), Arthur Moats (a career special teamer in Buffalo), Lance Moore (this guy is the only one who probably had options other than Pittsburgh)?  These guys are all the bottom of the barrel free agents. 
 
Why sign bottom of the barrel guys?  Because you have to field a full roster & you don't have the salary cap monies to pay quality players. 
 
They aren't going to improve the team, the Steelers know that, Some fans know that.  Most fans just think "GO STILLERZ!!!!".
 
Why don't they have the money?  For starters Heath Miller gets nearly 10 million a year. 
Polamalu too.
Ben gets 18.8 million.
They have a 5 million cap charge because they released Willie Colon two years ago.
They are paying 8 million for Lamaar Woodley to be a Raider.
There are other smaller chap charges too.  You can get a couple of really solid defenders for 13 million that you are being charged for two players who aren't on the team any more.
 
13 million right there, that they are down vs the rest of the league, before even starting to fill out the roster.  That's 10% of the salary cap, they don't have to spend, because of poor decisions years ago, or, rather, going for one more shot at the super bowl (the one they lost vs Green Bay).  They mortgaged the future, and this is what it looks like in the aftermath of doing so.  They knew what they were doing & they went for it. It's going to take 3 years after this for them to improve, period.
 
Was going for that loss to Green Bay worth it?  Fans in many cities would love for their teams to mortgage 10 seasons for one Super Bowl appearance.  Friggin' spoiled fans.
 
It's not rocket science.
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/14 16:35:41 (permalink)
There is also a noticeable change in drafting philosophy from the Dan Rooney/Donahoe/Colbert/Cowher teams to the current Art Rooney II/Colbert/Tomlin teams.
 
That is this:  The current regime makes high round picks of fast, underclassmen with "upside" that are often described as "raw" by the "analyst" types. Every 1st round pick Tomlin has made, I believe, has been a Junior.
 
The Cowher/Dan Rooney era clubs drafted Seniors with demonstrated long term success as football players, not necessarily flashy athletes.  They saved the "raw" prospect types for the later rounds.
 
Which method has worked out better?  I don't think it's even debatable.
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/14 17:11:59 (permalink)
Take a good look at their drafts over the past 20 years.  I think it is a myth that the former staff was great drafters as well.  Obviously, the 70s is a different story.
 
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3900&type=team
 
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/14 18:15:17 (permalink)
Compare apple to apples and stop making excuses for poor coaching.

The problem 'not being able to score touchdowns' is the problem and has been the problem.

Comparing 'head' coaches from other teams is comparing Apples to Apples. These coaches all have the same hurdles to jump. Comparing a coach of today with that of a past coach is comparing ' apples to oranges'.

Using salary caps and draft picks as an excuse is nothing more than spinning the subject.

Coach Arians took the blame for the red zone problem as is Coach Haley. How many assistant coaches will the Stillers put in the hot seat before the real problem is addressed?

As for the financial aspects coming into play; that is for the Rooneys to handle. As the owners their concern is the bottom line. When that bottom line begins to shrink, the Rooneys will make changes.

I do give your comments some thought before I send my rebuttals and I will stand corrected on any issue if the time comes. However, when the statement is made that I've worn out 'foundation', I'm certain that I am not the one needing education.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know successful organizations are built on solid foundations. If that foundation erodes so does the organization.

The problem is the same every year. Every year the Stillers fall apart in the red zone. Did I mention every year it's the same problem? How long will Mr. Tomlin need to fix the problem?



You might think about applying for a position on Mr. Tomlins press corp. He's sounds like a broken record every interview. Maybe he could use this salary cap or draft jargon, as a new excuse.

Enjoying the debate...... ur trn.
post edited by BeenThereDoneThat. - 2014/10/14 18:17:26

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/14 18:24:30 (permalink)
"The team can't win because they don't have talent to win"~D-nymph~


BINGO!!!!...... Ya gotta have talent to, teach talent!!

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#19
woodnickle
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/14 19:09:30 (permalink)
Not every year....the "Iron Curtain" stopped them in there tracks
 


#20
D-nymph
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/15 11:11:24 (permalink)
They do suck all the way around.  Only difference is I'm not surprised.
 
They would be better off sucking worse than 8-8.  It's going to be 3+ years until they are good again, regardless of who is the coach & coordinators.  Accept it.
#21
Porktown
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/15 12:07:02 (permalink)
I'm kind of surprised that their offense is as bad as it has been.  Especially without any major injuries, and depth being a major concern.  Defense is another story.  They weren't looking good prior to three key injuries, with no depth and holes prior to the injuries.  But yeah, reality is, just a cover for the coaches.   The foundation was broken.  Nothing to do with facts, money for contracts or any of that other technical garbage.  If they bled black and gold instead of real blood, they NFL could just hand over the Lombardi trophy every year, N'at. 
#22
wayne c
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/15 12:09:39 (permalink)
I agree with the basic notion that no team is great forever and am not surprised that they are not what they are.   I also know what is going on and why (to a point).   I also look at the roster, and don't realistically expect much since day one.
 
But I also believe there are some valid and real issues which the above does not "cover".
 
1. Tomlin not a very good coach, always thought so.  Poor handling of even the basics of the game like clock management on a very regular basis.  He was in place due to the "rooney rule" and the Rooneys not wanting to look like hypocrites.    I strongly believe this.   No way in hell was he the best candidate at the time.    Clearly not the most intelligent man on the planet which is an easy conclusion upon hearing him speak, and not just speaking of the stupid phrases he espouses constantly.   2. The team should be a doing a better job at tweaking the very foundation and young prospects than they have done.   Understand they are at a point of rebuilding, but that doesn't give them a total free pass imo.   3. He most certainly inherited cowhers team which was a very good one.   Some point to the 8-8 season that was cowhers last as somehow discounting this theory, but forget what all had occurred that season and why the record was what it was.   And it wasn't due to lack of talent or poor coaching.   Going by memory, wasn't that the season Ben nearly DIED in his motorcycle accident just a couple of months before the season and basically looked like the walking dead.   Some also point to Cowhers "pre-Ben" years, as if any coach in the league could've won another superbowl with Korndel Steward or "Tommy Gun". lmao 4.  The defense is a soft joke.  5. Team has very little in the way of star players. 
 
I would disagree that ANOTHER 3 years should be expected or acceptable at subpar performance.   This year will be 3 wasted years already basically.   It would be very hard to accept 6 or 7 years of total failure with a supposed franchise QB along with a few other legit often hard to obtain pieces in place without making the decision to ax Tomlin.    There are a lot of instances through the years where new coaching staffs have made immediate or at least very quick  impacts.  
 
I also agree that The current drafting philosophies are a joke.   Of all the teams picking in the draft and all the prospects available, they just happened to draft the supposed very fastest guy in the draft and also the largest guy in the entire draft...    Sounds like a 10 year old is assessing these prospects. 
post edited by wayne c - 2014/10/15 12:34:55


#23
wayne c
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/15 12:25:20 (permalink)
"I'm kind of surprised that their offense is as bad as it has been."
 
Im not.   Because they have ONE legitimate receiver.   Hes a very good one, but after that...   
 
I heard they are talking about putting Bryant out there since the receivers aren't doing squat.   Had hopes for the guy, brings some nice size and flashes of ability in college.   But really didn't look like much at all in preseason and I have some serious doubts.   Hands aren't the best which I heard is something that had also been the case in college.  Also doesn't use his height advantage over corners as much as would like to see.
post edited by wayne c - 2014/10/15 12:27:57


#24
D-nymph
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/15 13:26:25 (permalink)
Porktown
I'm kind of surprised that their offense is as bad as it has been.  Especially without any major injuries, and depth being a major concern.  Defense is another story.  They weren't looking good prior to three key injuries, with no depth and holes prior to the injuries.  But yeah, reality is, just a cover for the coaches.   The foundation was broken.  Nothing to do with facts, money for contracts or any of that other technical garbage.  If they bled black and gold instead of real blood, they NFL could just hand over the Lombardi trophy every year, N'at. 



#25
D-nymph
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/15 13:33:20 (permalink)
wayne c
 
I would disagree that ANOTHER 3 years should be expected or acceptable at subpar performance.   This year will be 3 wasted years already basically.   It would be very hard to accept 6 or 7 years of total failure with a supposed franchise QB along with a few other legit often hard to obtain pieces in place without making the decision to ax Tomlin.    There are a lot of instances through the years where new coaching staffs have made immediate or at least very quick  impacts.  

I agree with you, it's not acceptable.  But when they did things the way they did - hanging on to guys to hopefully make the playoffs, because then "anything can happen" once you make it, & ended up just missing at 8-8, that sets a franchise back more than going 5-11 or 4-12 does.  Instead of the rebuilding starting 3 years ago, it started this off season.  Which, in turn, delayed any rebuild by 2 years, regardless of who is coaching.
 
How long does Tomlin have?  Or, rather, what is the limit the Rooneys will tolerate before firing him?  I've no idea. 
#26
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/15 13:35:58 (permalink)
Okay, Yinz have provided excuses for a losing team over the next three (??) years. Does that mean having a losing head coach for the past six years won't be the problem for the future?

That's wonderful!!

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#27
Porktown
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/15 13:57:28 (permalink)
Going back to the original post, noting heads should roll.  What available coach would do any better with this team?  I also agreed at the time of Tomlin's hiring, he was not the best coach available.  I also agree now, there are coaches in the league that could very likely do better with the talent available.  Not sure if the defense could be fixed with what they have available.  Could they find someone better equiped to deal with the present team and future rebuild?  If so, I'm not against the idea.  Does Tomlin's track record indicate that they should be looking for a replacement though?  Two years of .500 with another looking to be below .500, and who knows for how long?  They were a very talented team when Cowher left, no doubt about it.  One that went .500, obviously there are factors, but there are always factors.  Two years ago team, was better than .500 in terms of talent, IMO, but not much.  Last year probably was .500, this year, unless drastic improvement, below .500.  Ben seems to have issues every year.  Broken thumb, accused of**** emergency apendectomy, leg issues, it's Ben, he usually fights through them.  Sure, part of the reason they went .500 that year, but do they go .500 with Belichek or Harbaugh?  Just about every year, they lose at least one key player.  They came back two years after and win a Super Bowl under Tomlin with some new guys, two years after that and lose a Super Bowl, with only a few guys that were from the Cowher era.  A coach that sucks, wouldn't have gotten them to either or the rather successful regular seasons that he has had, besides the past two.  Sorry, if you are going to talk down on a guy for not leading when things are bad, you've got to give credit for leading when they are good.  Guys very easily could have went for big contracts and been individuals, crushing that foundation...  Oh wait, that didn't happen during those first 5 years???  Even if every piece of the puzzle was inheritted talent, a bad coach is not getting them there.  He is dealing with a team now, that doesn't have the roster that either coach has had to deal with.  From my understanding, neither Cowher or Tomlin had/have much say on the drafting of players.  Some of the current drafting strategy may very well have been Rooneys & Colbert knowing they were going to be in a slump with the cap wave catching up to them.  Possibly wanting projects that would take longer to develop, keeping their costs low, until they are ready to be back on their feet and possibly stars at that point?  I at least hope that was the strategy, and not the future of their drafting.     
 
Let's not forget, there were some very good players drafted since 2006, along with their projects. 
 
#28
BeenThereDoneThat.
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/15 14:27:59 (permalink)
Hey Porktown...... thought you run off and left me.

There's more to coaching then knowing about the rules of the game which, after his sideline antics last year, Mr. Tomlin knows little about. Time and time again he has demonstrated a total lack of 'people skills'. Each time he appears on a interview Mr. Tomlin insults the intelligence of the viewers with his fodder. I believe he actually thinks we're stupid and he can just blow smoke.

Personally I am more disappointed with the Rooneys'
in that they shoved it to 'The Stiller Nation' which, in my book, says they have little appreciation for the fans.

Anyway we all agree, there's hope in the future.

Enjoy the chat and Gooo Stillers.

Give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you will feed him for a life time. ~Anne Isabella Thackeray Ritchie (1837–1919)~
 
 
 
  Old fisherman never die; we just smell that way. 
 
#29
Porktown
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Re: _________ Is Going To The Super Bowl!! 2014/10/15 15:06:19 (permalink)
There are a lot of coaches that blow off the media, his in much more of a unique fashion.  I have no problem with it.  I watched a few and figured they are all basically the same waste of time, so stopped watching.  The slightest slip, could compromise their game plan or even season.  Many, including Tomlin, do it, per NFL rules only.  Other coaches are much more informative, buddies with the media and makes for 1/2 hour of enjoyable entertainment.  Good beat reporters are able to get the information they need without a weekly press conference, so I put that as a non-issue with a coach of a team.  If the people watching his interviews are the same as those calling into Nightly Sports Call or other shows, then he is is correct in them being stupid. 
#30
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