erie tribs

any body have any idea of the amount of steelhead that would be in the tribs if the PFBC did not stock them? i mean with "normal" fishing pressure, such as at your local trout stream. just natural reproduction and mother nature would be the constants.

i don't think so, the catfish, bass and walleyes all go upstream to spawn, yet they aren't fished out. true they don't live in the stream forclose to half the year.

I don't know if it would be zero, but it would be extremely few.  My guess is if PA stopped stocking steelies, as already mentioned in less than 10 years they would be very rare.  The few you would find most likely would be fish from New York or Ohio stockings.
 
As for natural reproduction, the experts say there is absolutely no way it can happen, but there is some andectotal evidence that a very small amount may be occuring.  Even if there was a small amount of natural reproduction, that would not be enough to sustain the fishery as it is right now.
 
My understanding is that without stocking, the steelhead fishery in PA would collapse.

Good answer tippy! few far and in between i must say that i did catch 3 last year 07 all came from elk Early.                               centerpin_drift!

So if they can reproduce and make it, then whats the problem getting in their way of sustaining a population of natural reproducted fish?  Thanks, Krott

a "limted amount"  means that maybe 100 fish in all of the PA run in a given year are wild...
that is maybe half the amount of fish in manchester hole...
 
there are close to 2million smolts stocked a year...
 
PA will never have a measureable population of wild steelhead...

Krott,
 
Let's say 1,000 return to spawn, and we have even an unrealistic 10% success rate. Even if all survive to return, that's only 100 fish. So let's say the success rate doubles to 20%. That's only 20 fish in the following run. It of course would be different if ( as in other species ) you had in subsequent years, both the parents AND off spring spawning, but that is not the case. Few survive to spawn a second time, and fewer if any a third time. And NO it has nothing to do with them being roped.
 
 

ORIGINAL: spoonchucker

Krott,

Let's say 1,000 return to spawn, and we have even an unrealistic 10% success rate. Even if all survive to return, that's only 100 fish. So let's say the success rate doubles to 20%. That's only 20 fish in the following run. It of course would be different if ( as in other species ) you had in subsequent years, both the parents AND off spring spawning, but that is not the case. Few survive to spawn a second time, and fewer if any a third time. And NO it has nothing to do with them being roped.

Thanks spoon, I never said nothin about fish being roped..lol

Nut,
      I would imagine that if the upper reaches of the creeks were made "off limits", no fishing, or wading, the natural reproduction process whould be much greater.  I can never see it as being even close to what the state stocks.  The fish need gravel bottoms; cold, well oxygenated water; the redds need to be undisturbed (no wading through them) and the parent fish must be left alone for long enough to establish the redds and to spawn.   I can hear the screams if the state would not allow fishing way upstream on the tribs.  And you're right spoon, I have also seen small steelies on the upper tribs that shouldn't be there.

Indy,
 
I wouldn't REALLy be opposed to it, but doubt it would change things significanly. Water temps. are a much greater factor. Plus even if the NP rate doubled, or even tripled it still would not be sustainable. Most of the NP is occuring on spring fed tribs. to the tribs. One might make an arguement for making these off limit, but they see little if any angling pressure anyway

It really is human nature to want to tinker with things, albeit, fix what is not broken.  This really has to be looked at and accepted as an artificial fishery that is replenished every year regardless of numbers reproduced or harvested.  Those are the facts.  To get into the:

FFO
ALO
DHCARO
etc... is really meaningless in this case.  I strongly advocate for :

LITFA&GAFL!  If anyone can figure it out - you win a guided trip by Eddie (the character that is on the left).

Doc

Steelhead fishing in Erie is like going to an amusement park with thrill rides.  The rides give you a sense of danger and adventure, but are safe (at least most of the time) and only mimic "real experiences" like sky diving or white water rafting or mountain climbing, etc...  Just because they are man made does not mean they are not fun and exciting and enjoyable.
 
I am not that much of a purist to believe that catching a natural spawned fish is more exciting than catching a stocked one, or it is somehow more of a challenge to catch a "native" fish, or it is somehow a more fulfilling experience, etc...  I like the fishery and enjoy fishing for steelies and don't care how they got into the stream.
 
I would however find it interesting to know if the fish are actually reproducing in the streams.  I am curious and think it would be neat to know more about the biology of the fish and the streams.  Whether this will change the current state of affairs when it comes to stocking, I would tend to think it won't.

You guys are to much

The Lake Erie Fishery as we know it would not support the fisherman. The states with good streams for natural reproduction would simply not have the fish to reproduce.

ORIGINAL: Grendel

It really is human nature to want to tinker with things, albeit, fix what is not broken.  This really has to be looked at and accepted as an artificial fishery that is replenished every year regardless of numbers reproduced or harvested.  Those are the facts.  To get into the:

FFO
ALO
DHCARO
etc... is really meaningless in this case.  I strongly advocate for :

LITFA&GAFL!  If anyone can figure it out - you win a guided trip by Eddie (the character that is on the left).

Doc

I know LITFA = Leave It The F*ck Alone
& I'm guessing that GAFL might me Get A F*cking Life?