creek restoration

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kimish80
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2008/01/10 20:45:05 (permalink)

creek restoration

Has anyone heard any information on the restoration project and the fish ladders that are to be put in 4 mile creek?
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    FiveMilePete
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/10 21:35:52 (permalink)
    Who cares? Waste of money, in my opinion. Very few fish even made it to the first dam this season. Money could be spent opening up the mouths of some of the other east side creeks.
    #2
    tippy-toe
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/10 21:47:19 (permalink)
    I agree, 6 people and 4 mile in too crowded to fish..
     
    The $ would be better spent on ladders a 16..... JMO, I could be wrong

    I have the right to remain silent.....I just don't have the ability
    #3
    steelydaze
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/10 23:25:07 (permalink)
    I agree, 16 shoulda gottum.
    #4
    kimish80
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/11 08:55:11 (permalink)
    I beg to differ fivemilepete.  4 mile has a lot of beautiful holes above rt. 5 and the steel do make it up that far.  They're very hard to catch in that creek when you get away from the golf course.  Besides,  the creek is 8 miles long so that leaves alot of fishing room for anglers.  Also,  they didnt make it past the dam at that point in time because, if you remember correctly,  we didn't have that much rain then to bring the creek up so they could make it past that dam.  Evidently some people think this creek is worth it or there wouldn't be a restoration project and by the way,  ladders will be installed this year. Have any of you ever fished this stream other than below rt. 5?  I catch trout all year long out of there.  Even in august I found a hole with some decent trout in it.  Could you guys imagine fishing the winter green gorge for steel?  I think that would be fantastic.  Also, tippy-toe how clean can 16 really Be?  I mean come on, there is a sewage plant on the creek!
    #5
    T.T.
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/11 10:54:29 (permalink)
    Man, the more things change, the more they stay the same.  Why is that, and any other sewage plant for that matter, accepted as just a part of the water system?  There should be clean water flowing out of EVERY treatment plant.  In this day and age???  In this country???  I don't get it.  The high school I went to had a good sized treatment complex that drained right into a major marsh system that is part of a game land, and the water discharge had to be super clean.  I remember a science class where we went out to the "plant" and saw the teacher and engineer drink from the water that is being discharged into the marsh.  Grossed me out, but he never got sick from it.  That was 20+ years ago!!!  I understand municipal plants are bigger and handle a larger amount of sewage, but it can't be impossible.

    As much as I'd love to see chrome in the Gorge, I'd rather see $$$ go to cleaning up these fouled streams we have.
    #6
    cp13
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/11 16:03:37 (permalink)
    okay if 16 mile was that dirty, the fish wouldnt survive there...i fish there most of the time and ive never seen any dead fish except for roped ones...
    #7
    Presquisleanglr
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/11 18:30:10 (permalink)
    TT
    You went to Seneca !   Any Improvement on any creek is a plus.
    #8
    Grendel
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/11 19:42:11 (permalink)
    Kimish,
     
    You are right on the money there!  So much area for them to move to.
     
    Doc

    The strength of a person isn't measured by the muscle in their arm or how tall they stand, but rather, by the amount of knowledge and area of versatility they can cover. CM ~ 1987

    Not a fan of Burgh teams. Get over it...
    #9
    spoonchucker
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/11 19:44:03 (permalink)
    The ladders on Four mile will open up alot of fishing opportunities. The ladders, and some bank stabilization is being funded almost entirely through grants, and monies from organizations outside the PF&BC. I see no need to look THIS gift horse in the mouth.
     
    There are efforts in the works for funding the purchase of removable fish ladders for 16 mile.
     
    We may all be able to think of places where money might be better spent, or we would PREFER it be spent. But sometimes you have to accept, and appreciate what you can get. First, you can't do these projects on land you don't own, or have the permission & co-operation of the landowner. Second, if you have access to funding for project B, but not project A, you don't turn down B till you get A.

    Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

    Step Up, or Step Aside


    The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

    GL
    #10
    spoonchucker
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/11 19:48:01 (permalink)
     
     
     
    "Also, tippy-toe how clean can 16 really Be?  I mean come on, there is a sewage plant on the creek!"
     
     Kimish,
     
    There are also TWO sewage plants on Elk, and one on Walnut that I know of. Its not an issue.

    Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

    Step Up, or Step Aside


    The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

    GL
    #11
    FiveMilePete
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/11 20:14:30 (permalink)
    I agree, there are nice holes all the way up to the gorge, but what good
    are ladders if the steelhead don't even get to the dam by the golf course?
    The stockies are put in the creek for the kids mostly, and they are put in
    above East Lake Rd. (rt 5). I originally thought the ladders were a great idea, but after the last two years, I wonder if it is worth the effort, when there is so much more that be done to help the creeks that actually get some fish. Last season, fish got to the dam once, and then the golf course opened the dam, chasing the steelhead to the lake. Never saw many there again. This year, I have yet to see a steelhead anywhere near the dam. The days of the good runs on 4 mile (ala 2002,2003) are over in my opinion. I haven't seen a real run on 4 mile since before the big
    rains in 2004 washed out the lower section of the creek. Nate, if you are
    out there, you can back me up on this. You fished 4 mile more than anyone.
    #12
    TB
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/11 20:23:05 (permalink)
    I love it!  Let's run with the sewage plant idea....:)
     
    guys, how did all those fish taste that you smoked from Walnut, Elk and 16?  Very nice.  Good luck throughout the winter - may your stringers be full and your bellies also.. 
     
    Even though the plants are monitored - I know for a fact that they have releases on a weekly basis to keep some fresh nutrients in the water and ultimately in the fish that you all enjoy for dinner.  Bon appetit
    #13
    TB
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/11 20:25:39 (permalink)
    btw, I agree with the ladders on 4 mile.  it will only expand the fishery.  Once they are in place, they can stock more fish in that stream and #'s will improve.  I think it is a great idea to get that in and secure an easement with GE for their property while they are still in business at that location.
     
    16 should and will likely be next - not sure what the property situation is like upstream from the plant though.
    #14
    Grendel
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/11 20:41:57 (permalink)
    16-mile has some great water well upstream.  I have personally walked that and have found some nice holes holding bass in the summer.  OOOOOOOOPPPPPSSSSS - did i just give away a secret?
     
    Doc

    The strength of a person isn't measured by the muscle in their arm or how tall they stand, but rather, by the amount of knowledge and area of versatility they can cover. CM ~ 1987

    Not a fan of Burgh teams. Get over it...
    #15
    kimish80
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/11 20:43:11 (permalink)
    o.k. T.B. you got me. just my defense mechanism kicking in. Sorry.  I'm workin on it though.  Smoked fish taste good regardless.  5milepete, what do you think is the cause of the nice runs we used to get outa there?  Yeah, those stockies actually stay in there for quite some time.  I caught some brookies outa there in june. Surprised me,  I thought they, especialy the brookies, woulda been gone by than.  Caught my first trout on a dry fly that day too, a beautiful brownie, another holdover,  but did it ever get some color! not like those dull freshly stocked fish.
    #16
    FiveMilePete
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/12 01:27:21 (permalink)
    My guess is that the creek got washed out, pretty much down to slate from the dam to the first big hole at the mouth. This made the first falls
    higher, and fishermen corral them there. If they do make it up the falls,
    the water is so shallow and rock free, they have no where to rest, and end up sliding back over the falls. I've seen several doing this. Perhaps
    some move up the dam at night, but you would think you'd see at least a
    few somewhere. Or the steelies that were trying to get into 4 mile went to 20, or Mill Creek because there was no water in the creek for so long.
    Anyone have any better guesses? Skip?
     
    #17
    Skip16503
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/12 01:50:07 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: FiveMilePete

    My guess is that the creek got washed out, pretty much down to slate from the dam to the first big hole at the mouth. This made the first falls
    higher, and fishermen corral them there. If they do make it up the falls,
    the water is so shallow and rock free, they have no where to rest, and end up sliding back over the falls. I've seen several doing this. Perhaps
    some move up the dam at night, but you would think you'd see at least a
    few somewhere. Or the steelies that were trying to get into 4 mile went to 20, or Mill Creek because there was no water in the creek for so long.
    Anyone have any better guesses? Skip?


     
     
    East Side Sucks Pete remember.............

     



    #18
    Grendel
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/12 10:36:19 (permalink)
    Pete,
     
    Don B. of the DEP attended a fall PSA meeting and explained the benefits of having fish ladders inserted into 4-mile.  After his excellent presentation, there was no doubt amongst the group present that such a move was a well designed and calculated move.  Many agencies and people have put their minds together and have moved on this project; it merely did not sit on the shelf as "this would be a cool idea if."  You might want to join and attend some of the meetings to get some great ideas and facts.
     
    Hope all is well at your end of the state!
     
    Doc

    The strength of a person isn't measured by the muscle in their arm or how tall they stand, but rather, by the amount of knowledge and area of versatility they can cover. CM ~ 1987

    Not a fan of Burgh teams. Get over it...
    #19
    FlashDance
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/12 11:19:46 (permalink)
    Spoon, ah... umm.. ah... actually, I think that there are Three on Elk.

    One near Girard Boro Park.
    One near the Elk Creek Inn.
    One up in Mckean, behind the school.

    Right???
    #20
    spoonchucker
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/12 15:09:59 (permalink)
    I said that I know of. Actually I knew about the one behind the school, but I think the one by the Inn replaced that one.

    Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

    Step Up, or Step Aside


    The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

    GL
    #21
    carpitiss
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/12 15:26:59 (permalink)
    i suggested a long time ago that they start looking at putting fish ladders in areas that significantly impeded steelhead migration. spread the fish and fishermen out. therefore, you don't have areas overrun with both which only causes problems (littering etc.) PRIME EXAMPLE? MANCHESTER HOLE (remember, we USED to have BOTH sides to fish) it did not go over very big to say the least..... good to see this is finally happening. i hope it doesn't start and end with 4 mile.
     

    Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrppppppp!!!!
    #22
    FiveMilePete
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/12 19:03:49 (permalink)
    Doc,
     
    Well, I hope I'm proven wrong, but I don't think the fish ladders will do anything at all. My concern is that the project was probably proposed
    looking at fish numbers from 5 years ago. If these folks had seen the
    pitiful "runs" (note the quotes) the past two years, I don't think anyone would even consider putting in ladders. They will do as much good as ladders on McDannel Run, or 5 mile creek.
     
    Happy New Year, Doc.
     
    fmp
    #23
    Grendel
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/13 09:16:01 (permalink)
    FMP,
     
    I am hoping it will be a positive thing as well.  All we can do is cross our fingers and have some faith!
     
    Happy New Year to you as well!
     
    Doc

    The strength of a person isn't measured by the muscle in their arm or how tall they stand, but rather, by the amount of knowledge and area of versatility they can cover. CM ~ 1987

    Not a fan of Burgh teams. Get over it...
    #24
    krott243
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/13 11:15:50 (permalink)
    I have permission to fish the golf course, who wants to come with me????

    The Lord has blessed us all today... It's just that he has been particularly good to me.
    #25
    dano
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/13 11:17:49 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: krott243

    I have permission to fish the golf course, who wants to come with me????

     
     If you get permission to play the golf course, let me know.

    Gone Fishing
    #26
    FiveMilePete
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/13 22:38:52 (permalink)
    I have permission. You can too. There is a deal right now, no initiation fee.  1850 a year membership fee, 75 a month dues, 700 food minimum.
     
     
    It sure makes fishing seem cheap. Especiallly when you only play 20 times, like I did in 2004, because of my back.
     
     
    #27
    flyfisherman
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/14 11:27:09 (permalink)
    I think they should put a ladder in at the waterfall on walnut just above the chutes...
    #28
    spoonchucker
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/14 12:10:48 (permalink)
    First, MOST fish that want to get past those falls, do so during any high water. In fact I doubt that fish ladders would be any easier for them to traverse than the falls themselves ( they're not that big ). Fish will stack up at the first, easiest holes. I don't know why, maybe they're like some  fishermen, lazy. The mudhole, and access on elk are prime examples. Fish "stack up" in both, yet nothing impedes their movement.
     
    Second, you can't install fishladders on property you don't own, or control.

    Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

    Step Up, or Step Aside


    The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

    GL
    #29
    fishrmn
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    RE: creek restoration 2008/01/14 13:17:21 (permalink)
    What spoon said ^
     
    I'm so tired of people talking about building a ladder in the chutes.  Anyone who has fished upstream of the falls the past two or three years knows that there is ABSOLUTELY NO need for a ladder. 
     
    -Tim 
    #30
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