ORIGINAL: retired guy

  The numbers of hunters are going down most everywhere CWD or none--nice herds or herds with falling numbers - As I have said before the young guys just have more stuff to keep them occupied today and us old timers are dwindling - Not a bad thing- just different than the way we "old Guys" grew up.
I am sure that numbers can be found to show different reasons in different places depending of course on the mind set of the one looking at  the numbers( no stones there just different ways of interpreting those numbers) but in general in most all states we are becoming a smaller group.
   So be it!!! just go out and enjoy as long as you can wherever you can - never mind the other guy.,

 
Right there is it RG. 

   Not hunting your state so it may very well be that had something to do with the drop. Would suggest though that you take the normal average drop for the area  then subtract that form your stats to see the likely real amount of guys who left for the local reasons.
   When its dropping all over for other reasons one cannot put the whole local number onto  one subject.
   No argument here with unpopular laws that you guys talk about - just pointing out thats not the whole picture we face as hunters in general .

ORIGINAL: deerfly

My response was that Essox was free to provide the data that shows I was wrong. If that isn't good enough for you ,please feel free to provide the data yourself.

The burden of proof lies on you.  Your representation of the data you provided was clearly flawed. 

How about posting the link to the information for everyone?   

You sound like a 5th grader; what is next are you going to take your ball and go home now?


To your dismay:

The data on the PGC site only has up to 2008 so not sure where you got yours from???

2005 Total Number of Rabbit Hunters =  149,647
2008 Total Number of Rabbit Hunters =  137,842
Loss of rabbit hunters 2005-2008 = 11805 or ~7.9%


I don't have infinite time to research further like yourself, but in the 2010 deer chronicles it states we have had an average of 731000 deer hunters over the last 5 years.  That is close enough to prove the point.

I am also going to assume your 31k loss in hunters from 2005-2008 is accurate.

31k deer hunters lost from 2005-2008/731k total deer hunters in 2005 = percentage of deer hunters lost over that time period.

~4.2% loss in total deer hunters from 2005-2008

To summarize: In the period of 2005 - 2008 Pa lost ~7.9% of its rabbit hunters compared to ~4.2% of its deer hunters.


Data cited from:  http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=574291&mode=2
                        http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=631768&mode=2


Do you like apples?

pesky wabbits

people who think the AR/HR didnt cause the decline of deer hunters are:

No.  I proved you can not be trusted to present data. 

Here is your quote regarding the information you posted in case you forgot:

Based on that data we lost deer hunters at over three times the rate that we lost hunters of other species.

 

However, once the data is portrayed correctly it tells a much different story, doesn't it?

I could care less what the actual numbers are, but it is clear you had no issues posting intentionally misleading interpretations of the data.  This is why no one here will ever take you seriously.

We all know that was no mistake.....

I really don't care what the PGC said and it is irrelevant in our discussion.  But since you brought it up, where is Dr. Alt now?

This is the last time I saw him

 

You also blew DT's theory that more hunters quit deer hunting than quit small game hunting,because small game hunting was easier than deer hunting on us old timers.

Deerfly.. that is a TOTAL lie...

I never said more hunters quit deer hunting than quit small game hunting, that's more of yor silly "word" games, spin, and not posting what was actually posted but what you turned it into to.. SHAME ON YOU !!!!

I simple said more OLDER GUYS were quitting deer hunting because it was harder on them that small game hunting .. older guys that continue to hunt something and buy a license..

the losss of small game hunters is across all age groups and deals with the lack of game

more folks quit small game hunting because of lack of habitat and lack of rabbits, phesants etc... nothing to do with old age...

If the topic was guys are quiting small game hunting because of lack of game, I would not argue that point at all, but I still say that lack of deer is not the reason we are losing so many deer hunters... and when you consider the size of our state and the number of hunters to start with I think it is understandable and is only going to get WORSE in the next 10 years with the baby boomers quiting...

ORIGINAL: Esox_Hunter

We all know that was no mistake.....

I really don't care what the PGC said and it is irrelevant in our discussion.  But since you brought it up, where is Dr. Alt now?

This is the last time I saw him

 

Where is he now?

Well when the merger didn't happen and he didn't get the Executive Director's position in the new agency as promised for going through all that he did in an effort to pad his retirement, he retired and moved to CA where he lectures for the bird watchers.

Interesting that the only pictures of Dr Alt are with photos of Large deer FROM BEFORE AR/HR.

the losss of small game hunters is across all age groups and deals with the lack of game

more folks quit small game hunting because of lack of habitat and lack of rabbits, phesants etc... nothing to do with old age

How in heck someone can claim that hunters are quitting small game hunting due to lack of game but deny that deer hunters are quitting deer hunting due to lack of deer is beyound comprenhesion.
It is much harder to run beagles or bird dogs through the fields or brush than it is to go out and sit on your favorite deer stand. It is much harder to chase after turkeys in spring or fall than it is to climb up in a ladder stand or tree shanty.
The only hard part for a casual deer hunter is the drag and after the deer is dead you have all day and time to get a friend or 4 wheeler to get it out.
Someone who tries to make that claim has not done much rabbit, ringneck, grouse, woodcock, or turkey hunting because on average they require much more physical energy then many types of deer hunting.

ORIGINAL: S-10

That picture never fails to chap some azzes on here

Yep--It kind of proves that we had some very good bucks taken BEFORE AR/HR and the whole deer slaughter was for reasons other than improving the deer.
The PGC called it "Selling The Dream" at the time. It's even wrote about in a Outdoor article about the time he started showing it. They were not sure they should send Alt on the road until they saw the interest when they showed big antlers and told the audience that was what we could expect to see after a couple years.

No, really ? Like.. really ? A big buck in PA BEFORE AR ? Just not possible !



I'm not sure why you spend the time pointing out PA had big bucks before AR or why you think it needs to be proven. Everyone understands that and it doesn't come as a surprise. But it doesn't get under anyones skin like the Gary Alt pictures do. I guess the amount of belief you took from his words is the amount of betrayal felt if you didn't directly see what he said you would. What I can't figure how is why people still get upset about him a decade later. I remember attending one of his meetings and seeing those antlers. I didn't think much of it at the time. Sorta shrugged my shoulders and thought we'll see and whatever. There were some hardcore guys that were all fired up. Maybe they are today's arse chappers. LOL

"What I can't figure how is why people still get upset about him a decade later."
 
Maybe because it took over 25 years to start, start mind you, to straighten out the mess Del Graf did with a similar type program for similar reasons with the PFBC.  Some of us don't have an extra 25 years to wait for Alt's doings to be undone.

ORIGINAL: DarDys

"What I can't figure how is why people still get upset about him a decade later."

Maybe because it took over 25 years to start, start mind you, to straighten out the mess Del Graf did with a similar type program for similar reasons with the PFBC.  Some of us don't have an extra 25 years to wait for Alt's doings to be undone.

You may not have another 25 years to wait but you did have a full decade to make some changes yourself, if it mattered enough. Course, you say it doesn't then act like it does. You're a tuff one to figure out Shawn.