CWD Allegany County, MD

A harvested deer from November 2010 tested positive for CWD in Allegany County, MD this month.

http://www.dnr.state.md.us/wildlife/Hunt_Trap/deer/disease/cwdinformation.asp


What's this mean for the bordering WMU ? Is it WMU 2A ?

The high the deer population, the quicker it could spread. What's this mean for HR ? Hammer the deer in 2A to slow the spread even more ?

What's this mean for AR ? AR could potentially protect a CWD buck. Bucks disperse increasing the chance of spreading it so..... remove AR ?

Should all baiting (that includes in the off-season) be banned ?



yikes !

45 CWD positive deer have been found in Hampshire Co, WV over the past 6 or so years.

http://www.wvdnr.gov/hunting/chronicwaste.shtm

2 wild deer tested positive in Verona, Oneida Co, NY in '06 and '07.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/33220.html

It is only a matter of time until it is found in PA.  (most likely already here, esp. near WV border since so many have been found there).
 
It's funny that the MD site states that you should debone the meat, avoid contact with the brain, spinal fluid and lymph nodes and sanitize all your cutting tools/knives. 
 
Prions, which are thought to cause CWD, can't be "sanitized" by normal methods.
 
Prions can be inactivated by immersion in sodium hydroxide (NaOH 0.09N) for two hours plus one hour autoclaving (121 Â°C/250 Â°F). Several investigators have shown complete (>7.4 logs) inactivation with this combined treatment. However, sodium hydroxide may corrode surgical instruments, especially at the elevated temperatures of the autoclave.
 
Chlorine bleach is another accepted liquid sterilizing agent. Household bleach consists of 5.25% sodium hypochlorite. It is usually diluted to 1/10 immediately before use; however to kill Mycobacterium tuberculosis it should be diluted only 1/5, and 1/2.5 (1 part bleach and 1.5 parts water) to inactivate prions. The dilution factor must take into account the volume of any liquid waste that it is being used to sterilize.[23] Bleach will kill many organisms immediately, but for full sterilization it should be allowed to react for 20 minutes. Bleach will kill many, but not all spores. It is also highly corrosive.
 
Prions are highly resistant to chemical sterilization. Treatment with aldehydes (e.g., formaldehyde) have actually been shown to increase prion resistance. Hydrogen peroxide (3%) for one hour was shown to be ineffective, providing less than 3 logs (10−3) reduction in contamination. Iodine, formaldehyde, glutaraldehyde and peracetic acid also fail this test (one hour treatment). Only chlorine, a phenolic compound, guanidinium thiocyanate, and sodium hydroxide (NaOH) reduce prion levels by more than 4 logs. Chlorine and NaOH are the most consistent agents for prions. Chlorine is too corrosive to use on certain objects. Sodium hydroxide has had many studies showing its effectiveness.
 
Even high heat alone (temps. in excess of 800 F) have been shown to be ineffective against Prion sterilization.

RG,
Once it is there, it is there forever.  The pens that contained infected elk out west (I think Colorado), had all elk removed and the soil was actually heated to the 800F temp. for a decent amount of time and put back.  Healhy elk were re-introduced 20 or more years later and guess what, they were infected with CWD.  The prions were still in the soil that many years later. 
 
As far as the feed, certain regulations are in effect now to prevent certain parts of cervids to be included in feed.  Doesn't matter though, if one infected deer is running around and it is frequenting a feed area, there is a good chance it is shedding prions in the process (no matter what the feed is) and there is a possibility the other deer can become infected.  Nose to nose contact, saliva and feces seem to be the vector (but the scary thing is, scientists still really don't know for sure).  The less congregated the deer, the less chance CWD has a to spread but even then, you are only slowing down the process.

Yep, just double checked how many units were near Green Ridge State forest where the deer was killed. 4a, 5a, 4b, 5b, 2c are all closer than 2a which isnt even close. And there are quite a few that are equal in distance.

Hammer the deer in 2A to slow the spread even more ?

Only if you plan on taking out 3/4 of Maryland, 1/4 of WV and quarter of the state of Pa where it hasnt even been found yet for your containment zone. lol.

"That is why I asked what WMU is closest. Why don't you correct them on that "other site?""

Now that you know better and are free to confirm it for yourself, why dont YOU correct them? Otherwise, im quite content to let the ignorant remain so. I have no interest in conversing with the parties in question. Beside we are speaking of knowitalls. Id hate to make them look foolish by pointing out they are wrong and end up banned....Sounds ridiculous, and it is, but ive seen it happen. I also dont doubt one bit that they already KNOW what ive posted. But that wouldnt counter the requests for proposed split seasons and or cutting tags quite as well now would it? Split seasons for 2a are one of the most recent proposals from the last meeting and many hunters are now clamoring for that and reduced tags.

Could you explain how those deer hunters on that site are "anti-deer" ?

Im not convinced in the least that at least one of those im speaking of even is a deer hunter. Though anyone whos been a member over there long knows alot about them and others, Their avid "deer hunting" is certainly not what they are known for. lmao But my intent here isnt to make things personal and to bash them, or anyone else thats why im leaving id's and names out of it but of course youve read it so already know anyway who, and im not gonna give a history lesson of the peoples lives if youve been around long enough youd know and if you dont...then you dont. But what i said about antideer was 100% spot on and documented. Proven in details of cac participation, Harrisburg lobbying, groups affiliated with and other things. Long story- i dont wish to revisit.

Anyway, i just saw incorrect information that you posted....know where it started and why...I set the record straight in regard to the info in the initial post and to me, that was a bit more important than further bashing someone for their antideer beliefs which they are free to hold....Whether you believe the ones spoken of are malcontents or have hearts of gold, respectfully, i really couldnt care less. My main focus was setting record straight on the units etc. Job done.

"Why don't you correct it ? "

Do you have some kind of repeating or comprehension disorder? Because i dont want to laugh if you legitimately did. But I believe i answered that. And its not the first time youve posed the same questions over and over after having been clearly answered, you have a strong history of it.

"This website has very very few hardcore hunters compared to huntingpa and that's no secret."

I didnt say a word about here or there having "hardcore hunters". I know there are some here and many there as well, that just dont post very often. I also dont care if there were 1000 or none here. I corrected a very erroneous statement. Dont care if its read by Jackie Bushman, or Barrack Obama..

"Also who runs "the show" The place to set the record straight would be, first, at the source and second, where the larger (much larger) volume of hunters are, if you're able to."

OH NO! Im not able to... Im not a member cause im banned right? Every single person who is against the deer plan has been banned from every other site and is a usp member...Isnt that your warcry? lmao. WRONG. I have an active accoumt on that site. Ive explained it already why i seldom post, and will not explain again. But I think someone is trying to goad me into posting over there so you can see who i am and so i CAN BE. Mamma didnt raise no fool, and im more than aware of the b.s. games played over there. IVe seen bannings on account of postings from other boards, and ive seen ip adresses shared (something i need not worry about) by admin. for that purpose across boards as well. Nice try at psychology though. lmao.

Now if its all well and good, then how about we stick to the topic? You brought it up incorrectly remember...not i. BTW, Youre welcome.


...So should we kill the deer herd from the Ohio river to the susquehanna now?

post edited by wayne c - 2011/02/22 23:37:36

ORIGINAL: wayne c


Do you have some kind of repeating or comprehension disorder? Because i dont want to laugh if you legitimately did. But I believe i answered that. And its not the first time youve posed the same questions over and over after having been clearly answered, you have a strong history of it.

You said your focus is setting the record straight. So do it. It counts a lot more there than here. Correct the source. Correct the author of the statement. I think you're scared.

I didnt say a word about here or there having "hardcore hunters". I know there are some here and many there as well, that just dont post very often. I also dont care if there were 1000 or none here. I corrected a very erroneous statement. Dont care if its read by Jackie Bushman, or Barrack Obama..

Once again, if you are really concerned with correcting the information, do it at the source and where the information has the majority of exposure. You didn't correct any statement here. I did not pose a erroneous statement. I asked a question. Has it occured to you that there is a reason I repeat myself ? It's because you're spinning words or are not interpreting correctly. You've got quite a strong history of both.

"Also who runs "the show" The place to set the record straight would be, first, at the source and second, where the larger (much larger) volume of hunters are, if you're able to."

Explain to me why you added that first statement into mine. I don't know who runs the show there. Tell me. I'm interested in your theories. LOL Let the hate out. Let it all out. It might make you feel better.

OH NO! Im not able to... Im not a member cause im banned right? Every single person who is against the deer plan has been banned from every other site and is a usp member...Isnt that your warcry? lmao. WRONG.

Caps ? Boy, you got a temper. I know lots of people against the deer plan that aren't usp members. There are very distinguishing characteristics one usually meets to qualify as a potential usp member.

I have an active accoumt on that site. Ive explained it already why i seldom post, and will not explain again. But I think someone is trying to goad me into posting over there so you can see who i am and so i CAN BE. Mamma didnt raise no fool, and im more than aware of the b.s. games played over there. IVe seen bannings on account of postings from other boards, and ive seen ip adresses shared (something i need not worry about) by admin. for that purpose across boards as well. Nice try at psychology though. lmao.

...and so you CAN BE what ?

Let's say I did have interest in knowing who you were over there. What's the hurt ? Are you afraid of something ? I've seen you make comments on other folks pictures here, even threaten them based on their pics, yet the only pic I've seen of you is with your head cut off. I think you're scared. I don't care who you are. I'm not out to get you. Perhaps someone is elsewhere.

Now if its all well and good, then how about we stick to the topic? You brought it up incorrectly remember...not i. BTW, Youre welcome.

Considering you wrote a page about your insecurity and only one sentence on the topic, I'm not sure you're ready to discuss. At most, all you had to was say where Alleghany county lined up and stopped there. But no, you had to muster more disgust about huntingpa and some of its members. Going to another website and talking about someone with putting forth the effort you have here, says alot. It says alot more than you just not posting there often.

...So should we kill the deer herd from the Ohio river to the susquehanna now?

I hear herd eradication does not help. I don't know what we should do. That is why I originally asked questions.

That is, how CWD is theorized to be passed from animal to animal.

That bring's up an interesting question...
Has there ever been any hard evidence that CWD is passed by baiting/supp. feeding?

Ironhed

That bring's up an interesting question...
Has there ever been any hard evidence that CWD is passed by baiting/supp. feeding?

Ironhed

The answer to that question is NO---There is evidence that suggests that there is an increased potential for disease transmission(including CWD) whenever animals are concentrated in a small area. There are also wildlife biologists that think CWD got it's original start from feed stations but there is no hard evidence that can pinpoint any of it.
Common sense tells you that whenever a group of anything (animals or humans) are concentrated there is more potential for spreading any germs that are around. Common sense also tells you that most game managers don't approve of feeding in the winter because it allows more animals to survive
than the habatit can normally support. We no longer have that problem in most of this state.
The hard fact is that no one has a good handle on how to stop CWD because no one really knows enough about how it came to be or how it spreads although the knowledge is increasing..

Considering you wrote a page about your insecurity and only one sentence on the topic, I'm not sure you're ready to discuss. At most, all you had to was say where Alleghany county lined up and stopped there. But no, you had to muster more disgust about huntingpa and some of its members.

No i didnt. I said the truth. I told you the statement was flawed. Where it came from. And why.

Then you proceeded to whine because you didnt like the term "antideer". But it is what it is.

Now the floor is yours. Wont entertain your nonsense on this longer.

wayne...whoa...you took this one way out into left field on your first post and sorry for me being blunt, you are looking the fool for it. 
 
Silver was just asking a simple question...sheesh...
 
Small article on the spread of CWD...the lack of knowledge is the most concerning to me. 
 
http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/about.faqDetail/ID/209ea1b39c93f85dde9a5a4261400ea2
 
But, there is a large vaccuum out there for all these types of diseases and how they are spread...BSE, Scrapies, Creutzfeldt–Jakob (human form).  A cousin of a cousin (far removed) died from this many years ago in Maryland at a young age (in his forties). Terrible way to die.  One thing that was "scary" to me, he was an avid hunter and ate "tons" of squirrels.
 
Here is an article on an outbreak in Kentucky in the late 90's and the people who contracted CJD, all ate squirrel brains.
 
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9500E0D91231F93AA1575BC0A961958260
 
Here is a map of the current known CWD locations.
http://www.cwd-info.org/images/CWDmaphi.jpg

"A member of HPA will not be suspended or banned if the rules of the board are followed."

Ive been a member there longer then you have, and im more than familiar with how things have worked. It went from a great message board to clearing out the nonsupporters for years left and right with the new ownership. Since then, very recently its mellowed just a bit but only compared to then. Perhaps things have changed a little. But ive seen that not to be the case. MANY times through the last few year. Im guessing that hasnt changed with guys like "dennyf" as moderators! lol Might also contend that most of the vocal supporters have learned to keep their mouths shut, and most of the rest are long gone after the opinion cleansing years that occurred previously and was well known, and in fact often joked about openly by the ban-ers. lol. Guys are still moderated, censored and banned unfairly based on deer management positions. Though its done as discretely as possible. I dont spend nearly the time over there as i had. Dont care much for the company. Though you do get good scoops once in awhile.

But make no mistake, the board has one purpose. Put on a good show for the many legislators & commissioners that visit the boards and everyone knows it. Screw with the perceptions trying to be portrayed and you are flat out TOAST!

Only ones that dont know or care are the guys that "just hunt" and dont get involved in the politics of game management. Though they help because they add some needed bulk to the membership and make the website carry "weight" through numbers. They do have one very sizable membership due to getting in the business early with no competition. Although a large portion of the total membership total listed is previously banned id's. lol

As for the moderating, Ive also seen that work in reverse. Some free to do as they please for years unobstructed as others get banned or censored for far less. Just ask John S. lol. And several other of the "good ol boys".

The post two up would result in a suspension there

I agree. And thats even excluding the slightly distasteful "p" word. Probably would be at the least sternly warned without that statement. And thats not a "higher standard" thats pure heavily biased BULL-. Nothing was out of line. Only reason it wouldve been a problem is because of who was stating it, and the fact it came from the keyboard of a "nonsupporter" who they would be looking for an excuse to get rid of anyway. lol

The only different standard is that which the two sides of the deer management issue are held to. And you arent gonna paint it as anything else. Youre not a dumb guy and i wouldnt label you a liar. So im gonna give benefit of the doubt and just say your a bit overly the optimist and looking at through rose colored glasses. The "cleansing process" was well known fact and too infamous of a situation to simply be kept discrete and swept under the rug. All from both sides know this well, even legislators and some of the commissioners are more then aware.

Gills says: wayne...whoa...you took this one way out into left field on your first post and sorry for me being blunt, you are looking the fool for it.

I dont think you feel that way at all, but i do see the "buddy system" is alive and well. lmao. Some things may have been taken out of context by both of us later on, but my 'first post' was perfectly spot on the money and its interesting and "telling" that you'd infer otherwise. Also pretty telling that you didnt point out any inaccuracy in particular, just attacked the post in general. It was 100% factual and was no jab at kype, you, or anyone else.

Now if youre done "piling on"....Im done whining.

I'm starting to wonder if CWD can effect humans by means of the written word.

I got crushed by EHD on my favorite farm but most folks it didn't affect.

A couple farms i hunted were almost completely wiped out.

Yep. Had a rabid cat on the porch one day a few years back. A cat that always ran soon as it saw ya. That day, it came towards us had LOTS of foamy salive dripping from its mouth and meowed once. I went in the house to get the gun, by the time i got back my buddy had squirted it with the hose and said it left but not easily. I was hoping it didnt bite someone elsewhere. Id seen that cat often previously. I never saw it again after that day. Apparently it either died or someone else saw it and killed it or called animal control.

Id also once seen a coon in the middle of the day, a young coon in the middle of my uncles large yard, and didnt pay any mind to us or anything else, going round and round and round in a two foot circle nonstop walking. Have no idea what was wrong with it. I was a kid at the time and was leaving and dont recall what he did if he killed it or called someone.