October PGC Meeting Summary ==

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Dr. Trout
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2010/10/05 13:18:36 (permalink)

October PGC Meeting Summary ==

Release #111-10

Oct. 5, 2010





The following news release contains several articles regarding the results of today’s Board of Game Commissioners’ meeting in Wilkes-Barre.



BOARD TAKES STEP TO PROTECT GAME COMMISSION SHOOTING RANGES

WILKES-BARRE – The Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners today gave preliminary approval to a regulatory change to require State Game Land shooting range users to possess either a valid Pennsylvania hunting or furtaker license or purchase a range permit. In doing so, the agency is seeking to accomplish the twin goals of having unlicensed persons contribute toward the cost of maintaining the ranges, and to better quantify and control the use of the shooting ranges.


“Over the past few years, the Game Commission has made large investments into its 29 State Game Land shooting ranges across this Commonwealth,” said Carl G. Roe, Game Commission executive director. “These investments have taken the form of lead remediation, safety barrier reconstruction, shooting range redesign and other related projects. These investments came at a high cost, but kept many shooting ranges open and available to the public.


“Historically, hunters and furtakers have provided most, if not all, of the resources for keeping the agency’s shooting ranges open to the public through their license dollars. Additionally, the open use of State Game Lands for shooting activities by those not licensed has resulted in situations where ranges and State Game Lands have been used for illicit activities.”


The proposed regulatory change, which must be approved by the Board a second time before taking effect, requires all users of State Game Land shooting ranges to possess either a valid Pennsylvania hunting or furtaker license or a Game Commission-issued range permit, which would cost $30 per year for residents and nonresidents. Exceptions to this proposed permit requirement would be those 16 years of age and younger properly accompanied by a licensed or permitted person 18 years of age or older, and each licensed hunter or range permit holder could have one guest.


The proposed change also prohibits all other target shooting from taking place on State Game Lands, except at designated ranges.


This proposal will not result in any increased cost or change in privileges for licensed hunters and furtakers.





BOARD APPROVES MEASURE TO LIMIT TREESTANDS ON STATE GAME LANDS

The Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners today gave preliminary approval to a regulatory change to allow the placement of portable hunting stands from two weeks before the opening of the first big game season to two weeks after the close of the last big game season within each respective Wildlife Management Unit, excluding the spring gobbler season.


Game Commissioner Ronald Weaner requested that Game Commission staff prepare an amendment for the January meeting to require treestand owners to put identification information on stands used on State Game Lands.


A portable treestand is one that is not permanently affixed to a tree. They include climbing, hang-on and ladder treestands, as well as those constructed and lashed to trees. Treestands nailed or bolted to trees are illegal on State Game Lands.


“The Game Commission has historically permitted the placement and use of portable hunting stands on State Game Lands, and its continued support for the use of treestands has not diminished,” said Carl G. Roe, Game Commission executive director. “However, the agency has identified that this general permission has, in certain instances, resulted in the unintended consequence of some portable hunting stands seemingly becoming permanent fixtures on State Game Lands.


“Additionally, it has given some treestand owners the impression that they can lay claim to a section of State Game Lands.”


If approved by the Board in January, hunters would, in essence, be able to place their treestands on State Game Lands two weeks prior to the archery deer season, and then have to remove the stands two weeks after the late flintlock deer seasons.





BOARD MOVES TO ALLOW USE OF BAIT ON ‘RED TAG’ FARMS IN SOUTHEAST

To further the Game Commission’s efforts to find effective tools to manage the deer populations on agriculture lands in the southeast corner of the state, the Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners today gave preliminary approval to a regulatory change to create a focused, limited authorization permitting the use of bait for deer hunting in WMUs 5C and 5D on approved properties enrolled in the agency’s Agriculture Deer Depredation Program, commonly referred to as the “Red Tag” program.


“Earlier this year, the Game Commission’s three-year evaluation of the effectiveness of permitting the use of bait for deer hunting across the southeast Special Regulations Areas counties expired,” said Carl G. Roe, Game Commission executive director. “The agency concluded that broad scale and widely accessible baiting did not establish viable increases in harvest rates to justify an extension of the experimental program.


“Under this proposal, the agency is seeking to focus the use of bait on those farms most in need of deer control assistance during the ‘Red Tag’ deer harvesting timeframe. Farmers applying to enroll in the Red Tag program would need to include in their application justification for the need to use bait.”


Farmers enrolled in the “Red Tag” program are provided with a specific number of antlerless deer permits, which are red in color. Farmers then give these permits to hunters to use to harvest deer from Feb. 1 to Sept. 28 each calendar year, excluding Sundays, during the hours of dawn to dusk only. The permits are not valid from May 16 to June 30, and can only be used to take antlerless deer.


The listings of farms enrolled in the “Red Tag” program are maintained by the respective Region Offices as those landowners enrolled in the program change from year to year.





BOARD MAKES CHANGES TO DMAP PROGRAM

As requested at its April meeting, the Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners today gave preliminary approval to a regulatory change to enhance accountability for the public landowners seeking to enroll in the Deer Management Assistance Program (DMAP).


Under the new regulations, all public landowners will be required to provide an approved deer management plan along with their DMAP application. The regulation also proposes to advance the application date one month earlier to allow staff adequate time to review and process DMAP applications in a timely manner, as well as notify applicants about permit availability prior to the issuance of regular antlerless licenses.


The Board also directed staff to publicize the new application process and earlier dates for landowners to apply in early 2011.


In other DMAP-related action, the Board announced that it had taken a notational vote, on Aug. 17, giving final approval to issue 2,761 DMAP antlerless deer coupons to private landowners who are not enrolled in any of the agency’s public access programs for the 2010-11 seasons.





BOARD PROPOSES NEW TOOL FOR SNOW GOOSE CONSERVATION HUNT

To give waterfowl hunters another tool to assist with efforts to address overabundant snow goose populations, the Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners today gave preliminary approval to a regulatory change to allow the use of electronic decoys during the Snow Goose Conservation Hunt. If approved by the Board at its January meeting, this regulatory change could be in effect for hunters participating in the 2011 Snow Goose Conservation Hunt (Feb. 21-April 16).


For the 2010 Snow Goose Conservation Hunt, the Board approved the use of electronic calls and expanded hunting hours to one-half hour before sunrise to one-half hour after sunset.


“Snow goose populations have reached levels that are causing extensive and possibly irreversible damage to the arctic and sub-arctic breeding grounds they and other nesting birds use,” pointed out Kevin Jacobs, Game Commission waterfowl biologist. “For some populations of snow geese, their nesting habitats can no longer support these large numbers. What’s more, these geese are beginning to impact habitat and crops in Mid-Atlantic States and Quebec.



“It’s likely that North America has never had as many snow geese as it does now. They have become a huge and unexpected problem for themselves and other wildlife that shares the wintering and breeding grounds these waterfowl occupy. More hunting hours and electronic decoys should provide hunters additional opportunity to harvest snow geese.”





BOARD PURCHASES NEW STATE GAME LANDS AND ACCEPTS DONATION

The Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners today approved the purchase of 115.66 acres adjoining State Game Land 314, in Springfield Township, Erie County, from the Western Pennsylvania Conservancy for $400 per acre. The property consists of seven parcels with a diversity of habitat types, including roughly 780 feet of frontage on Lake Erie with undeveloped natural bluffs up to 75 feet high. Other habitat types include old reverting fields and woodland classified as Great Lakes Region Lake Plain Palustrine Forest, a critically imperiled plant community. The tracts are bisected by Old Lake Road, which provides access into the property. Although the majority of the property south of Old Lake Road is forested with maple, ash, beech, white pine and black cherry, there are small pockets of open wetlands and old fields reverting back to a natural condition. A tributary to Raccoon Creek flows through the southern portion of the property.


SGL 314 presently contains 3,178 acres in Erie County.


The Board also accepted a donation from Sofia Pearlman, of Camp Hill, of 10.4 acres in Franklin Township, York County, adjoining SGL 243. The tract is forested with mixed hardwoods containing yellow poplar, maple and beech as the predominate species. The understory is mostly spice bush and multiflora rose. The property lies south of Cabin Hollow Road.


SGL 243 presently contains 1,166 acres in York County.





BOARD APPROVES TWO LAND EXCHANGES

The Pennsylvania Board of Game Commissioners today approved a land exchange with Richard and Christie Youngkin involving a 25-foot wide by 3,448-foot long right-of-way across State Game Land 120 in exchange for three acres of land, both of which are in Beccaria Township, Clearfield County. The Youngkins own two interior parcels within SGL 120, and the Game Commission has agreed to accept one of the parcels in exchange for legal access across an existing road into the second interior. The easement for right-of-way shall not be used for the purpose of subdivision and the Youngkins have agreed not to construct any buildings closer than 150 feet from the boundary with SGL 120.


Two thirds of the property that the Game Commission will receive in exchange for the right-of-way is reverting grassland, with the other third in mixed forest cover, including an old apple orchard. Acquiring the three acres will remove an interior property lying within SGL 120, and reduce future boundary line maintenance.


The Board also approved an exchange involving a number of adjacent property owners who have been accessing their properties through SGL 111 in Lower Turkeyfoot Township, Somerset County. Some have been paying annual right-of-way licenses fees, while others have questionable legal access. The landowners have agreed to exchange the right-of-way for replacement land.


The landowners have agreed to cause to convey to the Game Commission a four-acre tract of land adjacent to SGL 93 in Shade Township, Somerset County, from the Wildlife for Everyone Endowment Foundation (WFEEF), which the WFEEF acquired with generous assistance from the Laurel Mountain Midstream Operating, LLC/Williams Pipeline Company, The Conservation Fund and Waste Management Incorporated. The replacement land is within the Flight 93 National Memorial boundary and along Johnson Bottom Road. The land is a mowed field.


Acquiring this property will expand the recently acquired SGL 93, which was named and dedicated in honor of the heroic passengers and crew of United Airlines Flight 93 who bravely sacrificed their lives on Sept. 11, 2001.





BOARD TAKES OTHER ACTIONS

In other action today, the Board of Game Commissioners:



- Approved a resolution, introduced by Game Commission President Jay Delaney, to support legislative efforts to allow for adult mentors to transfer one antlerless deer license or permit to a youth under the age of 12 participating in the Mentored Youth Hunting Program. If such legislation is approved by the General Assembly and Governor, the Board would be able to add antlerless deer to the list of legal species for youth to pursue under the MYHP. Current legal game species are: antlered deer, coyotes, groundhogs, squirrels and spring gobbler;



- Approved a resolution, introduced by Game Commission President Jay Delaney, directing agency staff to provide the public with Wildlife Management Unit deer population estimates at or before the Board’s annual January meeting. The Board’s goal with this resolution is to increase the public trust in deer management. This resolution is consistent with the recently completed Legislative Budget and Finance Committee’s audit of the Game Commission’s deer management program, which was conducted by the Wildlife Management Institute;



- Gave final approval to falconry permit regulations to require that a sponsor for a new falconer be a general or master class falconer having at least two years experience as a general class falconer. The regulatory change also expands the list of eligible species of eagles that a master class falconer may possess with additional written authorization to include eagles not covered under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act;



- Gave preliminary approval to a technical change to remove conflicting language in the regulations (Title 58) that resulted when the law (Title 34) was changed to permit hunters or trappers to harvest furbearers with a firearm having a light mounted on it;



- Gave preliminary approval to a measure to apply the regulatory protections afforded to State Game Lands to State Game Farms, where the agency raises pheasants;



- Gave preliminary approval to expand the non-toxic shot authorization to both fall turkey and spring gobbler seasons. The Board previously had approved the use of types of non-toxic shot that could be used for small game;



- Gave preliminary approval to a regulatory change to prohibit the use of fishing hooks or snagging hooks or any other device that is not a lawful trap, firearm, bow or crossbow from being utilized during licensed trapping activities;



- Changed the dates of the Board’s January 2011 meeting to Jan. 30-Feb. 1, to be held at the agency’s Harrisburg headquarters, 2001 Elmerton Avenue, just off the Progress Avenue exit of Interstate 81.



# # #


post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/10/05 20:50:06
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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/05 13:27:42 (permalink)


    I like this one !!


    Approved a resolution, introduced by Game Commission President Jay Delaney, to support legislative efforts to allow for adult mentors to transfer one antlerless deer license or permit to a youth under the age of 12 participating in the Mentored Youth Hunting Program. If such legislation is approved by the General Assembly and Governor, the Board would be able to add antlerless deer to the list of legal species for youth to pursue under the MYHP. Current legal game species are: antlered deer, coyotes, groundhogs, squirrels and spring gobbler;




    This is is funny as HELL !!! =

    Unit deer population estimates at or before the Board’s annual January meeting. The Board’s goal with this resolution is to increase the public trust in deer management. This resolution is consistent with the recently completed Legislative Budget and Finance Committee’s audit of the Game Commission’s deer management program, which was conducted by the Wildlife Management Institute;


    I sure can't wait to see how the BOC thinks this can be done..

    If they do not like it the way it is being done, I'm dying to see their suggestions on how to count the deer in each WMU....

    The PGC will not even know how many were killed by the end of January...
    They will not even have half the harvest reports in by the end of January ....
    the deer season does not even completely end until Januray 15th... ???

    I guess they want WCOs out counting deer instead of enforcing game code laws during deer season... ??

    This just shows me how many on the BOC have NO IDEA what they are doing...

    LMAO at this one..
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/10/05 13:42:55
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    DanesDad
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/05 15:33:04 (permalink)
    I have no problem with the one about requiring unlicensed people to buy a range permit for use of the shooting ranges. I think that's a good idea.
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    wayne c
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/05 18:22:01 (permalink)
    Approved a resolution, introduced by Game Commission President Jay Delaney, to support legislative efforts to allow for adult mentors to transfer one antlerless deer license or permit to a youth under the age of 12 participating in the Mentored Youth Hunting Program. If such legislation is approved by the General Assembly and Governor, the Board would be able to add antlerless deer to the list of legal species for youth to pursue under the MYHP. Current legal game species are: antlered deer, coyotes, groundhogs, squirrels and spring gobbler;


    There had been a bill that was written by 2 environmentalists to get the youth doe tag transfer initiated. Word has it, the purpose for this will be the same two reasons every single change is made with pgc these days. more money. And more doe killed. First, it is thought that more doe tags will be able to be sold in some units where the maximum amounts that can be sold, are already being sold. Its also thought that more doe harvested will be acceptable to the masses if its pushed as "youth" doing the shooting. Also, some hunters will want more tags available if they give theirs to a youth hunter, and theyd like to have another for themselves. Then again, some who dont use doe tags may decide to give them to youth hunters and actually then be used.. While i support youth opportunity etc. 100%, this is just another scam job, and the two people who put the bill together are more than proof of this. 2 ardent pgc supporter known hard-core environmentalists. They wanna give us this seemingly noble gift, all wrapped up in a deceptive little package making it look as if they care about hunting and our "youth", when its just one more step in the agenda.

    Unit deer population estimates at or before the Board’s annual January meeting. The Board’s goal with this resolution is to increase the public trust in deer management. This resolution is consistent with the recently completed Legislative Budget and Finance Committee’s audit of the Game Commission’s deer management program, which was conducted by the Wildlife Management Institute;


    I think the wording that was used was so used because they want a total for THIS year, and the preseason estimate that shouldve been given of course....wasnt. A preseason estimate should be given every year, theres no logical reason not to. And no, sportsmen not believing figures they may present is not a legit. argument against. If theyd work on their credibility, that wouldnt be an issue. Extracting from the commission and cutting ties with the people spoken of in the Eveland report would be a good start.
    post edited by wayne c - 2010/10/05 18:42:34
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    dpms
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/05 20:35:20 (permalink)
    Wayne, really?? 

    My rifle is a black rifle
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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/05 20:39:07 (permalink)
    I can't believe how negative Wayne is when it comes to any and everything PGC ... ????


    now he wants to blame the youth for killing too many deer ... UNBELIEVABLE....

    Its also thought that more doe harvested will be acceptable to the masses if its pushed as "youth" doing the shooting


    the purpose for this will be the same two reasons every single change is made with pgc these days. more money. And more doe killed



    you sure don't seem to understand how the doe tag system works --

    there are X number of tags sold each year... 2F sells out every year and guys (adults) who would like a tag do not get them ... so why do you think they would increase the tags just for youths when they would not do it to allow more adult to get at tag (that too would be more money).. in fact they lowered the allocation (less money).. so the more money excuse is just BULL....

    at the same time = X number of tags equals X number of deer killed out of those tags...

    If I allow a youth to use one of my tags how does that increase the kill (or increase money)... it's a kid instead of me.. same result one tag used equals one dead doe....

    I find it interesting you seem to not want youth to get excited about deer hunting....

    I guess if they do not get involved it supports your argument about less licenses sales is because of a supposed lack of deer... and not older hunters or youth not getting invovled...

    for the future of our deer hunting sport we need to do everything POSIBLE to get and keep youths involved...

    I can see all the complaints about kids losing interest because they do not get to shoot a buck taking a back seat to a kid saying ==== "at least I shot a deer -- so I'll be out there next year to try again"...

    To me == allowing me to give my tag to a youngster is a no brain-er and may just be the thing to keep that child interest in Pa deer hunting..!!!!
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/10/05 20:52:40
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    wayne c
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/05 21:41:36 (permalink)
    Wayne, really??


    ummm, yes R-E-A-L-L-Y. lol.


    "I can't believe how negative Wayne is when it comes to any and everything PGC ... ????"

    Not any and everything. Just alot of what has to do with the scam deer management program. See the Eveland report for details.


    "now he wants to blame the youth for killing too many deer ... UNBELIEVABLE...."

    I never said anything of the such. Reread my post. You're taking a small part of my post, and taking it intentionally out of context, because you know every word i said is true, and have no rational defense against it.

    "you sure don't seem to understand how the doe tag system works --"

    Oh, i know ALL about it doc. Been following these things in depth for along time now.

    "there are X number of tags sold each year... 2F sells out every year and guys (adults) who would like a tag do not get them ... so why do you think they would increase the tags just for youths when they would not do it to allow more adult to get at tag (that too would be more money).. in fact they lowered the allocation (less money).. so the more money excuse is just BULL...."

    I said SOME wmus. There are wmus where they are selling as many tags as they can already. I said nothing about "2F', although even in units like 2f, i wonder how much more support would be gained for allocations if they increased because dad had given his up, and he wants one too?.

    "at the same time = X number of tags equals X number of deer killed out of those tags...

    If I allow a youth to use one of my tags how does that increase the kill (or increase money)... it's a kid instead of me.. same result one tag used equals one dead doe....
    "

    In your case it wouldnt. But its not all about YOU. I know of quite a few who buy tags, dont use them, but will let their kids etc. use them if it becomes legal. I think i explained quite clearly in my last post. Just because it may not pertain to EVERYONE doesnt mean there wont be impact. .


    "I find it interesting you seem to not want youth to get excited about deer hunting...."

    Yep, just as i and millions of others have without ridiculous bazillion added crutches. Especially when the usual suspect greenie enviros are the ones at the forefront and want it for OTHER reasons.



    "I guess if they do not get involved it supports your argument about less licenses sales is because of a supposed lack of deer... and not older hunters or youth not getting invovled..."

    Yeah, thats it Doc. You've got it all figured out..

    "for the future of our deer hunting sport we need to do everything POSIBLE to get and keep youths involved... "

    Exactly. And #1 on that list should be increasing their opportunities atquality hunting experiences and not limiting it even further by allowing the greed commission to take the herd even lower and forward their enviro agenda.

    "To me == allowing me to give my tag to a youngster is a no brain-er and may just be the thing to keep that child interest in Pa deer hunting..!!!!"

    Its more likely to have the exact opposite effect in the long run. The more the herd declines, so will the interest of adult and child.

    You dont have to tell me about mentoring youth. My rifle seasons are spent sitting with or driving for youth hunters. Id say hunting for buck is a helluva lot more opportunity than any of us had growing up, seeing as hunting wasnt legal at all prior to 12. But i think its just fine as is currently and support it 100% as is. Unfortunately for pgc and the greenie agenda, harvesting buck, squirrel, turkey etc. doesnt sell doe tags, and it doesnt reduce the herd via fawn recruitment.

    ITs the same reason they continually add opportunities like early rifle...early muzzleloader, crossbows..etc. CONSTANTLY. Except for inappropriate allocations etc. I can live with as is. But there comes a time when adding seasons etc. enough is enough and i think we are well past that point.




    post edited by wayne c - 2010/10/05 22:08:03
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    S-10
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 05:11:57 (permalink)
    I don't know which greens Wayne is refering to but the Audubon is on record pushing a mentored doe license which is unusual for a organization of mostly non or anti hunters. As far as fewer deer being the cause for fewer deer hunters, in the final report for 2010 on the KQDC they state that their research and surveys point to just that. They have lost hunters and fear losing more due to the reduction in deer numbers which currently average just over 15dpsm on the 74,000 acre experment. In fact one of the recommendations presently being acted on is getting sports writers to publish articles promoting the hunting on the properties and holding presentations to interest hunters into giving it a try. Mike Bleech is part of that group and is agressively pushing hunting the KQDC although the number of deer he talks about is way higher than the survey numbers on any of the sections of the properties. They have also documented that since AR/HR the ratio of buck to doe has gotten WORSE.Question-- would you rather have 20 days to hunt and see 6 deer or have 6 days to hunt and see 20 deer?
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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 08:38:24 (permalink)
    would you rather have 20 days to hunt and see 6 deer or have 6 days to hunt and see 20 deer?



    I know very few people who have either of those choices...

    most folks get about 3 days to hunt, so with a two week concurrent season it gives them 12 days to pick which 3 they can hunt..

    anyone that hunts 20 days and sees only 6 deer needs to find a new place to hunt... or call me and I'll tell them where/how to go to see deer.........

    not to get this thread off topic from the meeting decisions BUT... here's a report from my board about a guy from Erie who has a camp 4 miles from here...

    I went spotting for about 1 1/2 hours Friday evening around the camp. We saw about 95 deer altogether, with about five bucks. Two were nice 8 points. We also saw one coyote, which I've never seen before while spotting.


    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/10/06 08:43:35
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    270wbmag
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 08:48:16 (permalink)
    doc, do you have a guide license??? now when we were kids, we were all excited about deer hunting and never shot does for 20 years...my camp was full of high school kids getting illegal absenses for deer hunting..bucks..not does..kids don't have to shoot does..they can shoot spikes ..totally against youngens shooting does,, will end up...mentors will shoot them for the kids..just like most of them do with the bucks..its the parents who can make the kids hunters, its how they teach them..to be hunters..not killers...doe hunting is just killing imo...
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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 09:32:27 (permalink)
    REALLY ????

    what do I need a guide license for... the day I need to hire someone to show me how to hunt or find deer is the day I QUITE deer hunting!!!!

    I do not need a guide license to tell folks where to go to shoot or see deer....

    doe hunting is just killing



    you got to be kidding me... when the buck is laying their dead .. you didn't kill it...

    hunting is killing it's that simple no matter what the species... ..

    so if I do not think ducks should be shot anyone shooting them is just killing ducks and less of a sportsman ????? childish thinking at best...



    getting today's youngsters into hunting has nothing to do with seeing large numbers of deer in my opinion...

    I got hooked when you did not see hundreds of deer every trip into the woods on the rifle opener... how did that happen .. ??

    it was a time to spend time with my Dad or Uncle away from home and away from work for them.. it was fun just being with them in the woods and learning about wildlife.

    Did I get bored.. you bet !!!

    but I was ready to go the next time .. always the optimist



    here's the kicker.. I never shot a deer while hunting with either of them as a youngster.. but was hooked on fishing and hunting because of them and the time spent with them... not seeing hundreds of deer.....!!!!

    There's just too many things for kids today that is fun for them that does not involve spending time with adults.... and look at the facts... most kids today are being raised by a single adult... many guys (adults/Dads) are not hunting because of child support too, they need to work as much as possible to make those payments and still some extra left to support themselves.

    If I had been brought up by just my mom I doubt I would be a hunter... and odds are she would not have left me go with an Uncle who was related to my "missing Dad"....

    the main thing is all the "things" today's youth have to occupy their time... I am still amazed at the computer games and how real they are... and sports that were not available when I was small..

    On the funny side.. I still have not allowed myself to buy a deer hunting game... with my personality I can see me getting hooked and sitting here playing it and not going into the woods to scout or maybe even hunt... and if I based my love of hunting totally on killing bucks... I'd have quite a long time ago....

    luckily I was taught that killing a good mature doe was just as hard as killing a young 1.5 year old buck.. in fact I was taught it could be harder. Today's deer hunter thinks it's all like on the TV shows... watch a food plot and see 30 deer and pick out the biggest.. they do not even pay attention to the fact that many of those "canned" hunts still take several days and all day hunts... they just see the kill and remember that and think it's easy and that's the way it is or should be in PA...

    rant over... off to work........
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/10/06 09:33:10
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    dpms
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 09:57:53 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: 270wbmag

    ...doe hunting is just killing imo...


    Good fuel for the antis.  They would love to pick your brain some more.

    It is our job to explain the positive role hunting plays in sound game management to non-hunters.  Shooting female deer, bear, turkeys, grouse, moose is vital to that management and we as hunters should understand and promote it.

    Hunting is a sport and a pastime that we cherish.  Shooting a doe does not change the sport or the excitement level for many folks.   If someone chooses to only shoot bucks or boars or gobblers, so be it.  That is their choice.  To diminish the accomplishment or the enjoyment that someones else gets out of a hunt has little room in our sport if we, as hunters, want to see the sport survive. 
    post edited by dpms - 2010/10/06 10:02:35

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #12
    270wbmag
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 10:12:24 (permalink)
    hey doc,where is the food plot with 30 deer...??????.....my dad taught me that shooting a doe was for people who couldnt shoot a buck..no challenge...its my opinion whether you like it or not..now if these youngsters were to qualify at a rifle range..how many do you think would hit the target at 100 yards?? not many..but let them cripple does anyhow ,, right...they can't use big caliber guns, most of them can't hold it up and take the recoil..still my belief that the mentors do most of the shooting..great way to get a deer...kid stays home after he tags it, wife off your back and you got meat for hunting season..rest of season is for your self..people wont admit that but i bet it happens alot..Doc, how can you get excited about shooting a doe???? if that floats your boat, what would a big buck do for you..probable never shot one..doc, start taking or showing guys where to hunt and dcnr will be after you on state land..
    #13
    S-10
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 11:32:45 (permalink)
    Doc Quote=luckily I was taught that killing a good mature doe was just as hard as killing a young 1.5 year old buck.. in fact I was taught it could be harder. End Quote

    You sure have proved them wrong on that one haven't you.
    #14
    S-10
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 11:37:51 (permalink)
    Doc Quote= here's a report from my board about a guy from Erie who has a camp 4 miles from here...

    quote:

    I went spotting for about 1 1/2 hours Friday evening around the camp. We saw about 95 deer altogether, with about five bucks. Two were nice 8 points. End Quote

    I see that HR/AR has really corrected the buck/doe ratio in your area hasn't it Doc.
    #15
    Ironhed
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 13:49:00 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: 270wbmag

    hey doc,where is the food plot with 30 deer...??????.....my dad taught me that shooting a doe was for people who couldnt shoot a buck..no challenge...its my opinion whether you like it or not..now if these youngsters were to qualify at a rifle range..how many do you think would hit the target at 100 yards?? not many..but let them cripple does anyhow ,, right...they can't use big caliber guns, most of them can't hold it up and take the recoil..still my belief that the mentors do most of the shooting..great way to get a deer...kid stays home after he tags it, wife off your back and you got meat for hunting season..rest of season is for your self..people wont admit that but i bet it happens alot..Doc, how can you get excited about shooting a doe???? if that floats your boat, what would a big buck do for you..probable never shot one..doc, start taking or showing guys where to hunt and dcnr will be after you on state land..


    Plots and fields with 30 deer in them are not that hard to find.
    Although, they are little harder than placing a pile of corn on the ground and setting up a trail cam.

    How do you know how hard it is to kill a big, old mature doe when you claim to not do it?  Maybe ask your dad.

    I'll tell you what buddy, pick out a big mature doe and hunt her.  You'll change your tune real quick.  You won't do it because you gotta harvest "a buck".
    You think these bucks learn to survive on their own?  Who teaches them?  The squirrels?

    We are still waiting on the pics of the monsters, too.

    Ironhed



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    #16
    deerfly
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 18:05:29 (permalink)
    Approved a resolution, introduced by Game Commission President Jay Delaney, directing agency staff to provide the public with Wildlife Management Unit deer . The Board’s goal with this resolution is to increase the public trust in deer management. This resolution is consistent with the recently completed Legislative Budget and Finance Committee’s audit of the Game Commission’s deer management program, which was conducted by the Wildlife Management Institute;


    IMHO ,since the resolution stated that the WMU should provide the "population estimates at or before the Board’s annual January meeting", it is pretty obvious that they were requesting the preseason DD or the OWDD that was used to calculate the PS DD. The bottom line is they are asking for more accountability from the WMU in direct response to the audit.
    #17
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 18:46:00 (permalink)
    and just how would you suggest they count the deer..

    never mind --- I know you nor anyone else have any idea on how to count free roaming living deer... it would be impossible to get any where near an accurate count of living deer in the summer time... look how poor the fly-overs were... do you count BBs as does or bucks when you're counting them ..???

    S-10.. you have NEVER heard me say anything about HR/AR correcting the buck doe ratio around here.. In fact I have always said it has been and still is messed up.. way too many females...

    If bucks are so wise why do they let the females decide if it is safe to enter a field ???

    As for the fields with 30+ deer.. between my house and the writers camp (4 miles) there are 6 fields... 4 of which have been and are/were green tags.. red tags.. and open to anyone for hunting..plus his camp is across the street from 3 more fields and SGL#54 borders all of these fields..

    You sure have proved them wrong on that one haven't you


    If you 're referring to my not seeing a AR legal buck...not sure that has anything to do with it.. I just do not hunt the safe, secure area bucks like to travel in nor do I spend alot of time hunting just bucks..

    BUT I have seen more legal bucks in my travels this year than in years past...my hopes are up for 2010...

    I'll get my crossbow this week-end and plan on trying to shoot one of those legal bucks in archery season this year.. heck maybe even next week.. just to prove to you guys that if I really wanted a buck I could get one... especially in archery season.. stay tuned for that update
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/10/06 18:57:18
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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 18:51:21 (permalink)
    doc, start taking or showing guys where to hunt and dcnr will be after you on state land..


    BULL POOP ....

    The officlas at DCNR have thanked me more than once for helping to promote deer hunting at Clear Creek State Forest.. in fact they were the ones that set-up and asked would I agree to be interviewed by a Pittsburgh radio station several years ago about just that.. deer hunting on Clear creek state forest...

    so I have no problem promoting and talking about where to go on CCSF to hunt deer...

    well gotta run.. sportmen's club meeting night !!
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2010/10/06 18:53:20
    #19
    270wbmag
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 19:04:37 (permalink)
    never said old does weren't smart ironhed...just said no challenge to shoot something without lot of calcium in its head..shot a nice 8pt tonight with my Sony camera..33 yards..seen 12 deer,3 bucks 7 gobblers..good 2 hours..sony 60X power zoom..shoots still shots also..great camera..
    #20
    wayne c
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 19:27:50 (permalink)
    PGC has deer density estimates per wmu, posted every so many years on annual reports. Take that data for this year and add it up, and thats all thats necessary to put together to give us a statewide estimate. They have also released deer estimates in the past. Therefore there is no reason why they shouldnt do so now.

    We should EXPECT wmu estimates & statewide. Only reason they havent given us this yearly is because they know the data will be questioned and their credibility with many is already very low. Giving the estimate will also give insight into the thinking of the pgc from year to year, When they might be guessing there are more deer and also would make it possible to see how their "stabilization" is going from year to year, and over a period of years. Also would show us just how comparatively low they are willing to go over a period of time.

    All these things wouldnt require an individual to jump through hoops and study up on pgc annual reports etc. to figure out as is now the case. These things will be glaringly evident to everyone, including those not willing to put forth any effort to find out. -- Bring on the estimates!
    post edited by wayne c - 2010/10/06 19:35:45
    #21
    S-10
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 20:32:05 (permalink)
    1.Doc Quote-- and just how do you suggest they count the deer

    Count them the same way Alt did when he KNEW we had 1,600,000 of them

    2.Doc Quote--If bucks are so wise why do they let the females decide if it is safe to enter the field.

    You proved my point, let the girls go out first and if they don't get their heads blown off or stuck with an arrow maybe the SMART buck will sneek out for a bite,otherwise he will melt back into the woods.

    3.Doc Quote--I just do not hunt the safe secure area bucks like to travel in

    You proved my point again, why are those smart doe wandering around close to the road in unsafe areas where you can kill them,by your theory they should be in those safe secure areas and those dumb bucks should be coming under your gun.
    #22
    Ironhed
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 22:46:47 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: 270wbmag

    never said old does weren't smart ironhed...just said no challenge to shoot something without lot of calcium in its head..shot a nice 8pt tonight with my Sony camera..33 yards..seen 12 deer,3 bucks 7 gobblers..good 2 hours..sony 60X power zoom..shoots still shots also..great camera..


    You are unbelievable.  Really, you are.

    Ironhed

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    #23
    Ironhed
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/06 22:53:39 (permalink)
    .
    post edited by Ironhed - 2010/10/06 23:12:59

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    #24
    270wbmag
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    RE: October PGC Meeting Summary == 2010/10/07 18:12:31 (permalink)
    thank you...hed.. don't believe what i post????????? I am not a liar like some that post here..got proof on film...go get em S 10...you are one of the few that know what they are talking about when it comes to deer...
    #25
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