Inexcuseable PGC action

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MuskyMastr
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2009/10/15 23:39:11 (permalink)

Inexcuseable PGC action

Just returned from our County Council meeting where our delegate gave the report from the recent PFSC annual meeting. He gave a nice report about the PFBCs presentation.

However the PGC did not show up. For years the PFSC has supported the PGC and attempted to work with (sometimes against the wishes of many members) them as sportsmen to further our pursuits. The lack of courtesy displayed by the PGC is disgusting. There is NO excuse for them not to show up at this meeting. Typically the executive director along with 3-4 commissoners attend.

I as a PFSC member would like to know who in the PGC has decided that a group of over 100,000 Pennsylvania sportsmen is not important enough for them to accept an invitation to attend.

Any pfsc members or members of clubs should be writing a letter or sending an email to some PGC people to find out who's brainchild this was.

I will not pass on the hearsay as to why they did not show up, until I can prove it. But, if the word on the street true (and I do not know that it is, yet) then Carl Roe should lose his job.

Bottom line, the members of the PFSC give up thier valuable time to work with the PGC and they can't take the time to show at thier biggest event of the year.......BS!

Better too far back, than too far forward.
#1

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    Dr. Trout
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/16 07:32:34 (permalink)
    MM..

    Your delegate to the convention should have told your group why for the first time since 1936 the PGC did not show up...

    but if you would really would like to know write the PGC and ask them why... or write to the past president and ask if he knows why ???

    I will not pass on the hearsay as to why they did not show up


    If the hearsay is what your delegate told you it may be the truth.. ????

    I knew from both the county PFSC delegate and my sources at the PGC that they(PGC) were not showing up two weeks before the convention... so it should not have come to anyone as a SURPRISE !!!!
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2009/10/16 07:39:16
    #2
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/16 08:04:04 (permalink)
    while some may think this is trivial, I want to stay with my practice of honesty....

    musky sort of makes a "claim" that is not 100% true...

    he wrote --

    that a group of over 100,000 Pennsylvania sportsmen


    To avoid sounding like the USP And their inflate membership numbers...  I would like to clarify that statement..

    The PFSC does NOT have 100,000 members...

    they have "CLUBS" which "REPRESENT" members of that club's opinions...and they have individual members..not all members at a local club are actually members of the PFSC...

    for example.. I am our clubs delegate... our club has 5 people who are individual members of the PFSC.... I hold meetings and get the opinion of all at the meeting on items for the PFSC... then I transfer that "opinion" to the PFSC......  so my one vote "REPRESENTS"  the opinion of xxx number of members of OUR club.. at the club  ....on that particular meeting night.. and it may or may not be what the PFSC ends up with as their position on any given item.


    While the PFSC represents all the people who belong to our club they actually only have 5 members of our club as members of the PFSC...


    The PFSC (to my knowledge) almost always states...   they REPRESENT XXX number of Pa. sportsmen..


    Today the PFSC ---
    Our membership is made up of affiliated clubs and individual members.  We currently represent approximately 95,000 members. 
     
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2009/10/16 08:17:22
    #3
    heyiknowyou
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/16 11:21:23 (permalink)
    congratulations, you called him out on being 5,000 over what the actual number is.
    #4
    bingsbaits
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/16 12:13:12 (permalink)
    Nope only missed it by 2500..
     
    Here are the PFSC membership
    numbers. We currently have 309 paying clubs, including 5 statewide organizations; 301 Club Individual members; 215 Individual members; 344 Life Members; 20 Supporting members; 58 Next Generation members. The Pennsylvania Federation of Sportsmen’s Clubs represents 97,429 sportsmen and women.

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


    #5
    rollcaster
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/16 12:16:46 (permalink)
    I heard they were all at Doc's house. He had a party.
    #6
    MuskyMastr
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/16 13:21:42 (permalink)
    Doc enable your PM.  I just spent 15 min typing you a response that dissapeared because your pm is disabled.  If you are going to PM me I would like to be able to respond.  And actually I don't want to fight over it.
     
    I would like to know how the most powerful sportsmans organization in the state is not important enough for the PGC to show up.
     
    If it is because Carl Roe is upset with the past PFSC president, then he is basically posseses the tempermant equivalant to that of a three year old.
     
    Move on, we all deal with rearends in our jobs.  Accept that Carl Roe, move on and do your job.
     
    I don't want to fight about this.  I would seriously like to know how the PFSC can be ignored by the PGC. 

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
    #7
    MuskyMastr
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/16 13:22:57 (permalink)
    It does not matter if it was a suprise or not.  The PGC has basically refused to report to or accept input from those that pay thier salaries.

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
    #8
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/16 14:25:56 (permalink)
    Did  not know my PM thingy was turned off... THANKS..

    This last update here messed up alot of my log in stuff.. pasword etc etc worked with the admin and I quess everything is okay now..


    SORRY !!!!!

    BTW guys. I was not calling out anyone.. I was mearly pointing out that it is not members of the PFSC..it's representing xx number of folks not all of which are members......
    not actual number of members, but I thought folks would read and understand that... my BAD again...
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2009/10/16 14:31:50
    #9
    DanesDad
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/17 18:31:44 (permalink)
    Regardless of the actual number of people that are members of the PFSC, cant we agree that they represent a large number of hunters? And shouldn't the PGC realize this? Shouldn't the PGC at least make it look like the sportsmens opinions matter to them?
    #10
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/17 20:43:41 (permalink)
    The PGC has always respected the thoughts and have given sincere consideration to the wishes of the PFSC and I am sure our new president will restore those feelings.


    Relationships between the two got "strained" this past few months, but I have all the confidence in Ted Onufrak and our new exec. director to restore that relationship quickly..

    there is no doubt that the PFSC speaks for many many hunters and sportsmen state wide..
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2009/10/17 20:45:29
    #11
    BIGSLICK
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/18 00:41:27 (permalink)
    Over the past few years, I have lost all respect for the PGC....This comes as no surprise to me.....
     
    When are they going to wake up and stop running this like a dictatorship and let the sportsmen speak out to what they would like to see happen...



    #12
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/18 08:01:29 (permalink)
    Over the past few years, I have lost all respect for the PGC....This comes as no surprise to me.....



    NOR ME .....  probably 90% of the folks (THAT POST) about the PGC have a bone to pick with the PGC...
    many have bad expereinces and it's more " sour grapes" than anything..  most just have an opposite opinion and would not agree or RESPECT anyone/anything having a different opinion.. and basically, as I have said before --

    IT'S ===

    all about me... what I want .. what I think is right...what makes me happy....

    AND ===

    screw what the majority think or feel.............
    post edited by Dr. Trout - 2009/10/18 09:50:30
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    Rpgyard
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/18 08:59:20 (permalink)
    Every post I read of yours furthers my belief that you could be the biggest **** bag EVER...and that is saying a lot.
    #14
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/18 09:54:19 (permalink)

    see what I mean... he must dis-agree with my opinions
     
     
    #15
    MuskyMastr
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/18 13:23:00 (permalink)
    I still have not heard a valid reason for them not to show up. Got one Doc. Cause if strained relations is all you can come up with then Carl Roe is childish and should lose his job.

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
    #16
    heyiknowyou
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/18 16:16:54 (permalink)
    musky, search http://drtrout.aceboard.com/ to see if you can get an answer... haha, perhaps he posted the answer there
    #17
    Claypool313
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/18 17:24:11 (permalink)
    Here's an idea.

    Maybe the PGC decided that they did not want to be hypocrites anymore.  Since they do not regard the majority of the PA hunter's opinions anyway, they figured might as well make a real statement to how they feel.  So in case some folks still thought they cared, it's now truly out in the open for all.
    #18
    fishscab
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/18 17:57:14 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Rpgyard

    Every post I read of yours furthers my belief that you could be the biggest **** bag EVER...and that is saying a lot.

     
    +1


    I call """BS"""
    #19
    bingsbaits
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/18 18:01:57 (permalink)
    You would think if they gave a crap they could pony up somebody to listen to the representatives of "ALMOST" 100,000 hunters..What is that almost 10% of all liscenced hunters ?

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


    #20
    MuskyMastr
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/18 23:32:43 (permalink)
    Especially when they are an annual feature presenter every year! And now, no show. Delagates from around the state come expecting a report from the PGC and instead get what we are all getting used to getting from the commission.

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
    #21
    Rpgyard
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/19 08:32:07 (permalink)
    Your group should put its money where your mouth is and have your 100,000 members stop purchasing licenses from the state.  That would probably spill over to 2-3x more people.  If you cut their revenues by 20-30%, or more, they will fold like accordions. It certainly sounds like its time to send a message that will be understood by the PGC.  Dr. Trout will give his opinion on this issue as soon as he gets a hand free from all the handjobs he has been giving to his WCO's.
    #22
    MuskyMastr
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/19 08:41:51 (permalink)
    I am not an advocate of the don't buy licenses scheme, yet. The alternative to the PGC is game management with legislators involved. That would be worse.

    But, I have to wonder when the PGC is no longer interested in the opinions of those who pay their salaries through license purchase.

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
    #23
    heyiknowyou
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/19 09:07:56 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Rpgyard

    Dr. Trout will give his opinion on this issue as soon as he gets a hand free from all the handjobs he has been giving to his WCO's.



    he's busy emailing them and asking them questions to post a page long reply that will be edited

    4 times after it's been typed and is double spaced to add emphasis and ease of reading
    #24
    CrossForkWookie
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/19 09:31:16 (permalink)
    For every person who rants and raves and makes their voices heard there are that many more who sit quietly because they don't have a problem.  I guess what I'm saying is count me in as the second ****bag...........
     
     
     
     
    .
    #25
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/19 10:57:23 (permalink)
    The trouble is many of you that attack me do not take the time to read what I write or what others reply.
     
    You are in too much of a hurry to call me names , insult me etc... and just have to add your vicious comments to the thread... rarely do any of you add anything to the conversation.. just attacks at me or the PGC
     
    I'm a big boy--- I've  been ducking attacks like that for years.. it's just a shame there is no moderators here to control the attacks... especially when that is all they are .. nothing added to the conversation...
     
    The remarks about the PGC not listening to hunters... as I keep saying -- that is NOT TRUE ...
     
    those accusations are from the folks that do not like the decisions made after the PGC listens to the majority of the hunters
     
    and does what is best for the hunters, non-hunters of PA.. and wildlife of Pa.. that's there job.. it is not to please all the hunters all the time...  no one or NOTHING could do that...
     
    if you really want to see BAD and angry hunters.. let the politicians (legislators) run the agency... see what happens then... when the 90% of the non-hunters want their voices heard-opinions-desires met  by their elected official... instead of the PGC and BOC...
     
    As for the PFSC... the PGC has not always agreed with our stance on some items.. but for the most part many are supported.. not just because of the PFSC by itself.. but that it (PFSC) reflects the majority opinion of 1000,000 hunters state wide and from all age groups.. not just the younger ones typing away on their computers on message boards.. but never type a letter to anyone or pick up the phone and call and voice there opinions..
    They prefer bashing on message boards.. and in that way trying to get them (folks like me who support the PGC for the most part) to be quiet and go away.. and thus have folks think they speak for the majority..
     
     
    I posted the deer related resolutions for several of the last conventions that PFSC held and the resulting votes.... and you can see what the MAJOIRTY of the members the club thought.. not what you anti-PGC folk feel here....  now many here will not like those results because theirs are different....  but SORRY FELLAS.. they are what they are... and that's the opinions the PGC heard and recorded...
     
     
     you are the minority on many issues ...  and all the bashing me in the world is not going to change that.. makes for good laughs and a place to visit to get some laughs.. but adds nothing to the conversation or little in the way of making changes.. some of which may really need to be changed !!!!
     
    your just the "BIG Bad cursing voices" here because most do not want to waste their time confronting you for what you are.. anti-PGC and anti hunting in the traditional way...
     
    they'll read my post do some checking and find I post the truth as I see or know it  or my opinions .. and you guys are good for laughs and insults...
     
     
    My last comments on the PFSC versus "no show PGC"...
     
    As a member of the PFSC I am not PROUD of what was said and done by some that was TOTALLY not in line with the PFSC opinions as a club... they made their personal opinions sound like PFSC positions and that's too bad.. and was not the TRUTH...
     
    It's dirty laundry now.. and something many of us are not proud of.. but it happened...so I'll not post statements or quotes to put blame on those that did the deed/deeds....
     
    IT will be resolved and both the PFSC and PGC will be on working terms again..
     
    just my 2 cents and some information ... again ....  in a page long post.. that will need edited since I have no spell check that works..
     
    now sit back folks and wait for the one or two sentences bashings to come  ....
     
    BTW... Thanks Cross Fork.. that took courage !!!!
    #26
    MuskyMastr
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/19 10:58:30 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: CrossForkWookie

    For every person who rants and raves and makes their voices heard there are that many more who sit quietly because they don't have a problem.  I guess what I'm saying is count me in as the second ****bag...........
    .


    I haven't called anyone a name here yet. But I would like to know why it is that it does not bother you that the PGC has, without reason, turned thier back on the largest single group of hunters in the state?

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
    #27
    CrossForkWookie
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/19 12:31:33 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr


    ORIGINAL: CrossForkWookie

    For every person who rants and raves and makes their voices heard there are that many more who sit quietly because they don't have a problem.  I guess what I'm saying is count me in as the second ****bag...........
    .


    I haven't called anyone a name here yet. But I would like to know why it is that it does not bother you that the PGC has, without reason, turned thier back on the largest single group of hunters in the state?

     
    Without reason?  They obviously had their reason they just haven't shared it with anyone yet.  Until I know exactly why............
     
    By someone's own admission all the facts are NOT out on why they made that decision.  So how can YOU rush to judgement before they are?  That is my point.  To me it sounds like opinions are being formed on hearsay and plain old thoughts and opinions. 
     
     
    Listen, I've sit here quietly and listened to everyone's position regarding this for a couple years now.  Groups that I'm members of have been approached by the PFSC to "join".  I have been, and remain to be "neutral" on that.  There are good things the PFSC represents that I have no problem supporting, but there have been many items I've viewed as just a little too over the top for my liking. Just so happens those are related to deer management.  I myself have elected to not pay as a direct member.  But I didn't stand up and say my group shouldn't be an affiliated club or whatever it is they call them.
     
    Any time you affililate yourself with a group like that you are going to have a very vocal minority in that group (on both ends of the discussion at hand) that tend to be very over the top.  I myself can't stand that type but hey, that's just me.  Then somewhere in the middle lies everyone else.
     
     
     
    #28
    Dr. Trout
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/19 13:44:05 (permalink)
    I hope I am not one of the over the top guys
     
    There have been several things the PFSC supported that I did not agree on and as an individual member voted against... the majority ruled .. do I have sour grapes.. NOPE that's the way it works majority rules.. have to take the good with the bad. As a result have I changed my opinion or stopped fighting for "the cause" I think is the correct one.. NOPE.. BUT I also am not going to bad mouth a fine organization just because we disagree on some items... or a certain officer said/wrote/published things that were not truthfully and not the position of the PFSC on the subject..
     
    There have been times I had to report our local clubs vote and it too was not my personal opinion.. but I had to do what I had to do and report the true opinion (vote) of the local club ... not try to push thru the opposite and  hope the board did not catch me....
     
    The PFSC is a good organization,  in fact,  in my opinion, the only good one we have..  the others have turned to the radical/self serving approach to having things changed/or not change and that just does not cut it with the majority of Pa hunters and sportsmen (the quiet majority) 
     
    Face it guys Pa is still a fairly conservative state...
     
     
    #29
    MuskyMastr
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    RE: Inexcuseable PGC action 2009/10/19 14:03:39 (permalink)
    The PFSC is a good organization. And a cornerstone of what makes them good is the working relationship with the PGC.

    Reasons or no reasons. They have a responsibility to report to those who pay the bills, and have declined to do so. Reasons don't matter, they should have been there.

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
    #30
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