Cold
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Nymph/Pupa ID
Was fishing in the upper stretches of the loyalhanna (above Ligonier) last weekend, and starting flipping rocks to check for nymphs. I didn't find anything easily identifiable, like small mayfly or stonefly nymphs, but I did see quite a few large cased pupa. At first i thought caddis, but at over 1" long and 3/16 to 1/4" in diameter, the stick and leaf collections were pretty big. I sliced open one of them and there was a short, fat little creature in there, something like yellowish cream color and a faint pink mixed in it almost looked like a compact waxworm, but the segments were shorter and better defined, whereas many waxies look kind of stretched out or deflated. It didnt wiggle much, even when I put it back in the water, though it didnt have much of a chance, as a fish darted out and took it.
Any ideas?
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D-nymph
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/22 09:59:44
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Cold
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/22 10:19:24
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Really?! That's huge!  It didnt have any visible mouthparts either, like most caddis I've seen, but, you sound pretty confident.
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davef
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/22 10:45:49
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I haven't done much trout fishing in the last 20 years but if its under water and in a case of either sticks or stones i think it has to be caddis.
Many moons ago ago i used to pick up stick caddis in cases on laurel hill, pull the caddis out for bait and take the case home to tie an artificial using yarn for a body and threading the case over the hook. Actually caught a couple of trout on it if i remember right.
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jimhalupka 
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/27 00:57:39
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I believe midge larvae use sticks and other debris as well
"Sure, we can assiduously three-quarter our wets downstream, mend and wait out each fly swing, over and over again, which to my way of thinking, anyway, relegates the angler to the role, not of nemesis as it should be, but of butler." -Art Lee
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KJH807
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/27 08:13:45
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look like this? 
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Cold
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/27 08:50:46
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No.
It's hard to judge scale in that pic, but I've seen those cases elsewhere on rocks. This thing was easily 3-4x thicker than that and at least 3x longer. The case itself had visible twigs and leaves in it.
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fishenfool46
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/27 10:21:38
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sounds to me like a free living caddis
I didn't say these are the ten suggestions signed God
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Cold
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/27 10:23:57
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ORIGINAL: fishenfool46
sounds to me like a free living caddis
Except for the big case...
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Cold
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/27 10:31:45
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Shoddy pic, I know, and nothing for scale, but here 'tis...  The larva is all contracted because I was handling him. When relaxed, he was roughly double that length, but almost just as thick. Note the twigs in the case...that surprised me, compared to the neater, boxy caddis case.
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norm289
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/27 10:47:44
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Cold, did a little reasearch for you. Did a little checking in a hatch book I have. There is a kind of caddis, latin family name is Limnephilidae. They are a case building caddis that can get up to an 1 1/2" long. It would be hard to pin point which one it is though. "According to the book" there is over 300 species in this caddis family. From my reading, I would have to guess that it might be a caddis called a Great Brown Autumn Sedge, Giant Red Sedge. Hope this helps.
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Loomis
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/27 10:55:38
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ORIGINAL: jimhalupka
I believe midge larvae use sticks and other debris as well
Midge larvae would be so small you wouldn't even notice them. Seen those in there before though Cold, def a caddis.
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Cold
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/27 11:01:53
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Thanks norm, Loomis, et al.
The larva inside didn't look very caddis-y, but I think that was more in my head due to the size than anything. I'd love to see a hatch of those beasts...
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dano
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/28 05:08:47
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ginger caddis
starts hatching sporadically through the day near the end of september on through october up here while everyones out fishing for steelhead.
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Cold
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/28 08:49:05
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How big do they end up? Also, I'm assuming they fish well? I'm thinking they'd be about a size 12...
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dano
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/28 14:59:29
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Norm is correct in that they are in the family of caddis named Limnephilidae. The genus is Pycnopsyche( pick-no-sigh-key) = Ginger Caddis. Adults are closer to a 10 but a high riding 12 such as a stimulator works, too.
Some info from my DB:
As far as how they will fish depends on how large of a population the stream has and when what time of day you like to fish.
Unfortunately, one never gets to see the peak of the hatch because Pycnopsyche emerge and lay eggs mostly at night. But, you can still see some overlapping hatches early morning and late evening. I once hit em real good in the afternoon. The tribs were blown from lake effect rain so I headed to Caldwell Creek. Fish were jumping out of the water trying to nab dancing caddis. You could see fish chasing the bouncing and low flying adults for some distance as they slashed and splashed while missing more than a few. The only pattern I had that was even close was a yellow sally and it worked OK. I got some good results hitting the fish in the head and giving it a short twitch as soon as the fly touched the water.
Peak hatch is usually after the first good leaf flush.
I once thought they made thier cases by hollowing out sticks but found out that they build them with silk,cement and palnt material.
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Fisherboy86
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/29 20:40:52
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Ditto everything Dano said.
In Freestone streams, the "October Caddis", can grow much larger than the one you found.
The biggest to date that I have found was 1 1/2" long with a 3" case. It was the thickness of a pencil.
If you are fortunate enough to live near a wild trout stream with large pools and a good supply of these flies...venture out sometime at night in October. The fish go insane.
Mike
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Cold
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/29 20:55:01
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The biggest to date that I have found was 1 1/2" long with a 3" case. It was the thickness of a pencil.  Good lord...to tie up a dozen of those, you'll need TWO elk!
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indsguiz
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/29 20:56:01
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Used to love to fish when those wer hatching on the Bald Eagle and parts of the "J". Early morning, late evening. sometimes at night on a full moon. Just tie up a 2x large caddis and have fun. They usually hatch out slate brown to brown but I have seen some that were very cream and light brown. Saw on on the side of a rock and I watched a rainbow watch the bug for about a minute till the fish leaped clear out of the water to knock the bug off the rock.
Illegitimis Non carborundum
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Sculpin 14
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/07/31 08:43:56
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 I've seen some nice size cases as well.
post edited by Sculpin 14 - 2009/07/31 08:44:27
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blacknosedace
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RE: Nymph/Pupa ID
2009/08/19 10:02:53
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you know it... i am simply amazed at my ability with a camera!!! nice pic dont you think!! ... so when is the first trip steely run for us this year sculpin?
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