PGC meeting day 1

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dpms
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2009/01/26 08:16:13 (permalink)

PGC meeting day 1

Looks like a huge turnout at the first day yesterday.  SRO with spillover outside.  Over 60 people signed up to testify and as one would imagine crossbows dominated the testimony.
 
The UBP was well represented and for the most part opposed crossbows.  The Pa. Crossbow Federation had three speakers in support of inclusion.  The co-founder of the PCF stated that they favor the #200 cap be put back in the language and if after several years it is determined that the crossbow has had a negative impact, the PCF would ask the BOC to take part of the season away from crossbowers.  The PCF did not want any part of the existing 6 week archery season taken away from the current archers. I was not expecting that part but was impressed.
 
Those against crossbow far outnumbered those for by a margin of 3/1 by most opinions.  Also the Governors Youth Advisory Council did throw their support behind full inclusion and they showed up with 30 youth hunters in attendance.
 
Also, of all people, Commissioner Boop made a statement that this BOC is offended by some of the language floating around that they do not understand archery and have no archer representaion.
 
So, it looks like the those against inclusion were well motivated and organized for this meeting.

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#1

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    dpms
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/26 08:33:30 (permalink)
    Here is the official position of the PCF.
     
    They want full inclusion without a stamp.
    They would like the #200 cap be put back in the language.
     
    With full inclusion, if crossbows are shown to cause a negative impact to the resource, they will ask the BOC to remove days from the season that crossbows would be legal.  The PCF does not want to have opportunity or days removed from the current 6 week season that current archers participate in. 

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #2
    SilverKype
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/26 09:12:03 (permalink)
    The Youth Council had no where near 30.  I was right up front.   Probably about 14-16.

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    dpms
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/26 09:46:51 (permalink)
    I was not able to attend this one so my info is through others. 
     
    Any other observations Silver?

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    SilverKype
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/26 10:49:37 (permalink)
    I'll post whatever I can when it comes to mind.
     
    The place was packed.
     
    When I left, the count was 20 opposed, 8 for crossbows.   It started out 7 for, and 2 opposed.   
     
    I am disappointed that more folks didn't say they don't support legislative interference in wildlife management decisions.  There were some, maybe 2-3, on the opposed crossbow side.  Plenty of folks brought up the fact that the archery bear season was implemented slowly and encouraged the commission to do the same with crossbows.  One said -- don't run into this, please crawl.   Only one speaker seemed to be outright hateful of crossbows.
     
    There were a lot of folks that used the word "will."   -- like -- it 'will' shorten the season or it 'will' not shorten the season.  I find the use of these words to not be very persuavive and very subjective.  There were a number of people stating it 'will' shorten the season.  Bad choice of words.
     
    There were two guys that used the word 'lazy.'  One opposed to crossbows -- stating his dad won't pick up a bow but wants to use a crossbow because he was 'lazy.'  The other was a crossbow supporter representing himself.  He did not speak well, or loud, and I'm not sure the commissioners even heard him.  He was attempting to address the idea that some archers look crossbow folks as 'lazy.'  I was sitting right beside him and couldn't quite understand was he was saying -- many half sentences.  Another crossbow guy yapped more about his hatred for the UBP, than actual crossbows.  But again, I don't think the commission understood him much either.  I think two crossbow manufacturers spoke, one professional guide and one guy pro crossbow representing multiple clubs of about 600 people.  There were two guys sitting upfront that didn't speak, that wanted full inclusion.
     
    The Sportsmans Federation -- and the President stated their 101,000 membership numbers -- the representation opposed crossbow full inclusion.  He said a lot and read straight from the paper he had.
     
    A decent number of archers testified that didn't belong to the UBP.  The one guy in front of me made some great points, but again, read straight from the paper .. quite fast.   Another (from Beaver county) said archery was his life and he's adjusted his life and work schedule to be off for three months to archery hunt.  He stressed he doesn't want to be known as a 'vertical' bowhunter just a bowhunter.
     
    The funniest part of the crossbow debate was when one of the pro crossbow guys stated maginified scopes would benefit in identifying their targets.
     
    The first UBP guy, Dale Miller said -- ' I don't know about that guy, but I was taught to never use my scope to identify my target.'  The place went nutz, and every speaker against the crossbow after that got a big round of applause.   President Palone tried to stop the clapping, but eventually said to keep it to a minimum.  The only pro crossbow clapping that occured was the when the youth council testified.
     
    I will give my impressions of the commissioners and executive directors attentiveness/interest in the crossbow subject a little later.  As some have stated, many decisions have already been made.  It was quite clear.   Plus, I'd like to give a bit of prediction on which way this will unfold.
     
    Yesterday was 'game day' -- it's clear which way this would go if hunter participation numbers ultimately decided the decision.

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    dpms
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/26 11:23:35 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: SilverKype


    I will give my impressions of the commissioners and executive directors attentiveness/interest in the crossbow subject a little later.  As some have stated, many decisions have already been made.  It was quite clear.   Plus, I'd like to give a bit of prediction on which way this will unfold.

    Yesterday was 'game day' -- it's clear which way this would go if hunter participation numbers ultimately decided the decision.

     
    Thanks for the inside update.  Would love to hear your thoughts on the BOC/Director and how this may play out. 
     
    It was game day and the pro-inclusion guys got overwhelmed by the turnout.  No doubt.
     
     

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    #6
    Ironhed
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/26 14:40:02 (permalink)
    dpms, Kype,
    What is the next step?

    Ironhed
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    SilverKype
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/26 14:44:07 (permalink)
    Tomorrow is the day, Hed.  The final testimony was 32-10.  That of course could have no affect on tomorrow's decision.

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    DanesDad
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/26 15:20:36 (permalink)
    It was probably decided before these meetings even took place.
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    Ironhed
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/26 17:42:49 (permalink)
    Would you keep us posted?  Thanks.

    Ironhed
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    thedrake
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/27 00:21:52 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: SilverKype

    The Youth Council had no where near 30.  I was right up front.   Probably about 14-16.

     
    Yep, it was nowhere near 30.
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    thedrake
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/27 00:28:46 (permalink)
    I also feel it was decided before the tuesday vote. I noticed Palone and other commissioners somewhat ignoring many of the speakers as they were talking to each other, and reading paperwork while speakers giving testimony. I guarantee if Palone was asked to repeat what many of the speakers had said after their speech, she among other commissioners would have not had a clue what the speaker presented. 
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    bingsbaits
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/27 06:06:41 (permalink)
    If they already have their mind made up and aren't going to listen to the hunters Why even bother with the big Powwow???

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


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    dpms
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/27 07:25:34 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: thedrake

    I also feel it was decided before the tuesday vote. I noticed Palone and other commissioners somewhat ignoring many of the speakers as they were talking to each other, and reading paperwork while speakers giving testimony. I guarantee if Palone was asked to repeat what many of the speakers had said after their speech, she among other commissioners would have not had a clue what the speaker presented. 

     
    While you observations are probably accurate, that surprises me.  In October her and Delaney seemed very attentive to the speakers.  It was Boop who seemed to care less.
     
    Oh well.
     

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    SilverKype
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/27 08:01:20 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: bingsbaits

    If they already have their mind made up and aren't going to listen to the hunters Why even bother with the big Powwow???

     
    Because some of their minds aren't made up.

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    dpms
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/27 08:15:50 (permalink)
    Silver,
     
    You expecting  ammendment poker or just a straight up vote on the proposal? 

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    SilverKype
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/27 08:42:42 (permalink)
    I suspect Scheffler to introduce amendment.   Didn't seem to me that there was much interest in it from the commissioners.  May end up being the reason the crossbow falls.

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    dpms
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/27 08:48:34 (permalink)
    I tend to agree.  A commissioner told me that there was little support for the optics ammendment within the BOC.
     
    If that ammendment does not pass does he vote down the inclusion proposal?  Tough call but I would guess he is leaning no.

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    SilverKype
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    RE: PGC meeting day 1 2009/01/27 08:50:09 (permalink)
    Yes, he will "probably" vote no.

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