A compromise?

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nightowl207
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2009/01/20 01:45:40 (permalink)

A compromise?

     To not turn this into another ****ing contest like the other threads on this subject. Try and not respond to anyone elses post on this. At least not negatively.
     But, my question is: In order to find an even ground on the subject of crossbow inclusion into the hunting year without sacrificing the "only bowhunters" regular archery season, what whould you suggest as a compromise.
May it be to give crossbow hunters inclusion during the first or last week of archery season, give Xbow hunters a week before or after regular archery season, or another idea.
 
What would you think to be a fair compromise?   
#1

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    casts_by_fly
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    RE: A compromise? 2009/01/20 06:01:47 (permalink)
    Allow crossbows during any seasons when muzzleloaders are allowed and for any species legal to shoot with a muzzleloader.  Thus, early season inlines does only, rifle season, and second season deer (after christmas).  Camo rules apply from archers, but seasons and bags apply from muzzleloaders.
     
    Special regs areas to stay the same.
     
    Do that for 3 years and require the possession of a free crossbow permit in addition to a paid muzzleloader or archery permit for hunting in the appropriate seasons.  Alternatively create a paid crossbow permit the same as an archery or muzzleloader permit.
     
    Over the three years monitor the kill rates for each weapon for each season and compare across the board against number of license sold for each type.  Then you can get a better estimation of impact of each weapon on the herd.
     
    thanks,
    rick
    #2
    bingsbaits
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    RE: A compromise? 2009/01/20 06:59:37 (permalink)
    I wouldn't mind a 2 week season at the start of archery..Try it for a couple years and see what the data says..Then look at mabee expanding....
     
    I would like to see a xbow permit required....We need the revenue...
     
    They could make a Senior Hunter permit...Set an age say 55 and you could get a xbow permit..There by eleminating the stigma of the disability permit...

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


    #3
    griffon
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    RE: A compromise? 2009/01/20 07:20:55 (permalink)
    True Story... I met a guy last week who took up archery hunting this past year.  His weapon of choice was a crossbow.  He had been a gun hunter (not to categorize) for several years, or so I gathered.  Anyway, this yahoo reports to me (for reasons unknown) that he shot 5 deer with his crossbow this year and recovered one.  It has always been my fear that many gun hunting mentality types will take marginal or poorly offered shot opportunities given the chance if they are allowed to use crossbows.  Now, I am not against them at all but I would like to see them used responsibly.  Perhaps a complete Crossbow training and proficiency course should be mandatory for any individual that wihes to hunt with a crossbow.  Upon completion of the course, you would be given a stamp and/or registration number which would need to be on you at all times when hunting.   
    #4
    dpms
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    RE: A compromise? 2009/01/20 07:59:37 (permalink)
    Adding more WMU to the list where crossbows would be legal for all archers.  I would start in the western and eastern part of the state.  Monitor for three years, present the data for all to see and go from there.
     
    While I like the idea of a stamp, that would require legislative approval and with the current state of affairs because of this issue I would be leary.
     
    A "free" permit has been discussed that a crossbow user would have to have in possession.  Good way to track the numbers and would not need legislative approval.  A user would still have to buy the existing archery license.
     
    Allow full inclusion for junior and senior hunters.
     
    Lots of options I guess but I like the idea of expanding the WMU and monitor the impact.
     

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #5
    nightowl207
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    RE: A compromise? 2009/01/20 13:17:16 (permalink)
    How about, 3 weeks of recurve and longbow only, then 3 weeks of compound/crossbow. The only technological advance you get through the first 3 weeks is that you dont have to widdle your own arrows and chip flints for arrowheads.
    #6
    DanesDad
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    RE: A compromise? 2009/01/21 00:34:32 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: casts_by_fly

    Allow crossbows during any seasons when muzzleloaders are allowed and for any species legal to shoot with a muzzleloader.  Thus, early season inlines does only, rifle season, and second season deer (after christmas).  Camo rules apply from archers, but seasons and bags apply from muzzleloaders.

    Special regs areas to stay the same.

    Do that for 3 years and require the possession of a free crossbow permit in addition to a paid muzzleloader or archery permit for hunting in the appropriate seasons.  Alternatively create a paid crossbow permit the same as an archery or muzzleloader permit.

    Over the three years monitor the kill rates for each weapon for each season and compare across the board against number of license sold for each type.  Then you can get a better estimation of impact of each weapon on the herd.

    thanks,
    rick

     
    This sounds like the way to go to me, but the xbow permit should cost the same as the archery or muzzleloader permit.
    #7
    casts_by_fly
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    RE: A compromise? 2009/01/21 15:15:22 (permalink)
    Danesdad,

    That is my idea for cost also. The free crossbow permit would only be a tracking number. They would still need an archery stamp or muzzle loader stamp to hunt in those seasons. The alternative would be to create a crossbow permit that costs the same as the archery or muzzle loader permit costs. I think the freebie would be better since the other permits are already in place and the crossbow permit would be like a registration number.

    Thanks
    Rick
    #8
    DanesDad
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    RE: A compromise? 2009/01/21 22:23:18 (permalink)
    If there is a specific xbow stamp (with a cost) then it will be easier to set up a specific xbow season.  You make it free, but with a required muzzleloader or archery stamp, then you'll get many more casual guys into it.  Anyone that wants to use an xbow should pay the same as anyone else using "specialty" type weapons.
    #9
    dpms
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    RE: A compromise? 2009/01/22 08:36:19 (permalink)
    Danes,
     
    I talked to one commissioner at length about this idea.  A free crossbow permit.  A crossbow user would need to purchase an existing archery stamp and then secure a free crossbow permit.  Being free it would encourage true participation that added cost might taint.  Would not need legislative approval as well, plus the PGC would realize some added revenue from archery stamps.
     
    I can assure you that those I talked to on this board do not want to go to the legislature for a crossbow stamp.  The free permit would circumvent that process and still have the desired results.
     
    Now, where to go from here.  This "idea" needs to be presented by a commissioner in "committee" and would need the support of the other commissioners in attendence.  From there it moves forward to possibly being placed on the agenda for a upcoming meeting.  How long does this process take?  Much longer than we have been discussing this issue.
     
    Yes, it is an idea that I support and if this proposal does not pass next week I will be pushing for either expanding crossbow legal WMU or the crossbow permit.
     
    Right now, I support expanding crossbow legal WMU to areas of the state where deer numbers are still fair to good.  Monitor the impact and report back. 
     
    Good idea though and maybe we will be bringing it up again depending on the vote.
     
     

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #10
    griffon
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    RE: A compromise? 2009/01/22 08:59:50 (permalink)
    The problem with approving crossbows in these areas only is that often you are referring to suburban areas.  Too many people IMHO that hunt with crossbows have a mentality that they must shoot at everything they see.  I have no doubts that allowing crossbows in these areas will result in higher incidences of Hunter/Landowner conflicts.  That will be bad for all hunters.  That is why I feel that you should have to take a special course for Crossbows (and no it should not be free) as well as obtaining a separate permit/stamp.   
    #11
    dpms
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    RE: A compromise? 2009/01/22 09:15:58 (permalink)
    Griffon,
     
    It is fair to say that the SRA were crossbows are already legal are as suburban as one could get?  I agree with you that with more hunters comes more hunter/landowner conflict.  If the crossbow legal WMU were expanded, that would be into more rural areas around the surburban areas where deer numbers are still relatively good and access better.
     
    Also, the free permit would not really be free as one would still have to purchase the existing archery license(new participants).  If you required crossbow users to purchase a crossbow stamp, would be a wash.  If you required crossbow user to purchase a archery stamp and a crossbow permit, that may minimize true participation somewhat because of the added cost and could be a factor in the data.
     
     

    My rifle is a black rifle
    #12
    tippecanoe
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    RE: A compromise? 2009/01/22 12:43:51 (permalink)
    I wouldn't mind seeing them include it in all of the seasons when you can use a regular bow.  I shot a crossbow once.....and I am way better with my compound bow....and it was really loud.  So I guess it's just a choice for people.  I really don't care.
    also...........
    I am certain that the crossbow producers are already in most of the game commissioners pockets.  It's not about representing us anymore folks.  3/4's of hunters could stand against it and it wouldn't matter one bit.  It is standard with all politics.  It is the sound of money that most people listen to.
     
     
    #13
    SilverKype
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    RE: A compromise? 2009/01/22 13:01:09 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: tippecanoe

    I am certain that the crossbow producers are already in most of the game commissioners pockets. 


     
    Not so sure about that one tippe.  Wouldn't surprise me if an offer from the xbow manufacturers was made.  These commissioners are good people.  The only question to me that arises from a monetary gain perspective, is Isabella.  That said, I haven't been to his store and I'm not sure how much affect this decision would have on him (even if he does sell crossbows, some say no) since crossbows are already legal in his area.
     
     

    My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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    DanesDad
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    RE: A compromise? 2009/01/23 16:54:32 (permalink)
    I agree that the last thing the PGC would want to do is go to the legislature for a new stamp (xbow specific).  So, I suppose the best way to make Xbow users pony up is require an archery stamp.  But they should have to get the free permit so xbow use can be tracked.  I'd still like to see the xbow user have his own stamp, like archery and muzzleloader guys, but I see that may not be practical.
    #15
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