Gene pool and antler restrictions

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sugarfuzz12
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/07 17:05:37 (permalink)
antler growth has to do with nature vs nurture.  the nature part is the genetics it is born with and has its whole life and nurture is what it eats and what kind of environment it grows up in  
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/07 18:52:09 (permalink)
Two more spikes tonight---one i've seen before and one new one.
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/07 21:00:31 (permalink)
S-10.....
 
One last time...
 
If you are hunting an area that does not have big bucks.... and that's waht you want... MOVE .....
 
 
complaining about the lack of big bucks where you are hunting
 
and blaming the PGC is NOT GOING TO GET YOU A BIG BUCK.....
 
move to an area where there are reports or sightings of bigger bucks...
 
If I recall you complained about the same thing last year... no big bucks where you were hunting and it was the PGCs' fault  ....
 
and your recent post makes it sound like you are right back there this year
 
????????????????????????????
 
I could complain about the lack of big bucks in the two squares miles behind my place too .... but I don't really complain.. I mention it and that's about all....
 
I know it has NEVER been good for big bucks and that's true  for the past 40 plus years...  but there's no great food for them and barely anything to eat in the early spring when they need it the most....  that's the main reason.. not anything to do with the PGC.. just basic deer biology.......
 
 
#33
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/07 21:24:07 (permalink)
And just why should I move out of the county and screw up somebody elses hunting. This article indicates most of the state except private ground and around the cities has the same problem. Used to measure 100, now measure 40. Your area is no better than mine. I am headed to Ohio as soon as our season is over. When are you going to admit the PGC made a mistake. I am going to ask the same question on your site and wait for the spin.
 
Measuring program good for the commission

George Block: Outdoors
This article has been read 273 times.




As I recently watched the Wildlife Conservation Officers measure antlers and bear skulls while chatting with the visitors, it brought a thought, "This is what makes the Deer Measuring Program so important."
It is not necessarily who shot the biggest buck or bear, but it is the interplay between officer and rack or skull owner that is of importance. The talk and kibitzing is informal and on an equal level unlike some of the meetings which take place in the field, where the hunter is nervous and the officer bound by duty to check everything.
Perhaps, to say it clearly, it is a chance for the hunter to find that Rod Burns, Mel Shake and Tom Fazi, are human beings just like they are.
Last Saturday, John Dino and I drove to the Southwest Office of the Pennsylvania Game Commission near Bollivar, to watch the Deer Measuring Program take place.



insertBanner("Island");


 
Who should be parked right beside me but Jerry Sinkunis of Washington. Sinkunis, if one remembers, is the archer who downed the 36-point buck last season in Allegheny County.
It's always good to see friends when away from home, and Sinkunis told us how he had bagged a large turkey this spring with the same bow he used on the big buck.
n After commenting about the Game Commissions now and then, I wasn't sure how I would be greeted, but must admit I was treated very well - in fact, better than I probably deserved.
I had the good fortune to bump into an old friend and ex-director of the commission, Don Madl, and we talked of the old days when he served here in Washington County.
He asked about Denny Frederick and said that he thought Frederick was one of the best commissioners who has ever served a term in the commission.
I wasn't there long when I, too, held my tape and was helping score deer. I was really surprised at the low numbers of heads brought in, for this was the first measuring session to be held in some time.
We scored just over 40, and I remember in past sessions doing well over 100. Maybe it was because of the requirement of pre-registration. I don't know. Or perhaps, like I have found, scoring a big deer has fallen off, in both numbers and size.
Actually, the Big Game Records Program goes back over 40 years. The first scoring session was held in 1965 and resulted in 1,300 deer racks being measured.
The 1965 session was followed by sessions in 1967, '69, '71 and '73. It was the 1973 session that saw the scoring of the top non-typical deer ever taken in the state.
It was a big Erie County buck scoring 238-6/8, downed in 1942 by Edward Dodge of Knox.
It was during the 1979 program that the still standing typical record buck was scored, a Bradford County buck scoring 189-0, downed in 1943 by Fritz Janowsky of Wellsburg, New York.
I have always found it interesting that these two top scoring bucks were taken within a year of each other in the early '40s.
The state's measuring sessions have been going on since that 1965 start, usually on a four-year basis, but occasionally there is a hiccup where there is more time between sessions. Looking over the record book, I find a couple of interesting sidebars.
For one, there is a buck taken by Arthur Young in McKean County that seems to have some questions related to it. In the state book it is listed as being taken in 1930. In the book put out by the BYC Club the same buck is listed as being downed in 1830.
That is before the Civil War and before we fought the Mexicans at the Alamo.
If the 1830 date is correct it is the oldest date listed in the Boone and Crockett Book. Whenever it was taken at a score of 175-4/8, it is one great mountain buck.
Occasionally, the two books the Boone & Crockett and the state don't jibe exactly.
For instance, the Boone & Crocket book lists Ivan Parry's, Greene County buck as Pennsylvania's best typical entry. Yet the state book lists Janowsky's on top. This is because the letter has never been entered in the B & C.
Another interesting question relates to the Clarion County buck taken by Mead Kifer that scores 173-3/8. It is listed high in the Pennsylvania book as it should be. But in the Boone & Crocket book, right below the listing of this buck is another Clarion County buck which scored 170-2/8. That deer was shot by a Meade R. Kifer.
Is it a coincidence, or is it the same person with a misspelled name? Or is it a father and son duo?
Whatever, it is an interesting mystery of the record book.
 
 
#34
Dr. Trout
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/07 22:25:22 (permalink)
The way I read it he states he does not know why it dropped off. and mentions several possibilities...


My guess (opinion) is most guys really could care less...

they are happy with the big buck they harvested and they get it rough scored and mounted  and  do not worry about an offical score and having to travel some place to have that done...  they just want it on their wall....

I know you have read the stats from a local taxidermist on my board and his results at his shop since AR was introduced and he is convienced it has gotten better for both..

his business for more and bigger bucks than ever

and for the HUNTERS also experiencing bigger and better bucks for many...


The fact they scored only 40 at this particular session shows me nothing other than just that only 40 guys showed up....

I have attended deer open houses that had over 100 show up and there have been some with only 20-30 people showing up....  proves nothing...
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2008/11/07 22:29:45
#35
Dr. Trout
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/07 22:32:40 (permalink)
This article indicates most of the state except private ground and around the cities has the same problem

 
Could not find this anywhere in that article ????????????????
#36
fishscab
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/08 05:25:32 (permalink)
More and more of the same garbage..You should rename your site..You post on at least three different sites..Are you a techno hunter or do you actually go in the woods???
 
 
BIG BUCKS RULE
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/08 06:11:32 (permalink)
and evidently you  do the same on those three sites or have you been banned  from two of them ????

I see you do not have any profile info.. must be ashamed of who you are ????

and I have not read anything that you have contributed to any topic here ???

you have three posts and all three are insults to me ????
 
GET A LIFE !!!!
 
 
just one of those " internet trolls" IMHO.......

Just put me on your IGNORE list
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2008/11/08 06:14:15
#38
gobyking
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/09 00:15:01 (permalink)
Ok fellas, no need for a ****ing match, lets have a good discussion.
 
Where I live and hunt in 2B, there are mostly overgrown farming fields and a ton of logged out areas(in between the new housing plans popping up) so much that I have to search to find a tree to put my climber in. The main area I hunt is a mined out area owned by a coal company and there are 3 ponds along with a slew of brushy areas that are loaded with rabbits, small game, and songbirds. There is plenty of feed. I have only seen non-legal buck there this year in the 60 acre tract. Now, I have a couple other spots which are also the same general typography.
 
Another is a 100 acre tract which borders a 1 square mile corn field(which is now mown down). Spotting throughout the late summer and early fall, I have not seen a legal 4 point on one side buck in this field. I have seen up to 35 deer in this field, mostly doe and occassionly a non legal buck. My hunting area is within 2000 feet of the corn field. My only hope for the next week is that one of the two areas have a roaming buck of legal size to take.
 
It may not happen and the odds are against me, but that is what I have to deal with. I cannot secure any more land to hunt because 90% of the areas around me are posted and I am not one to go to someones door mid season and ask for hunting permission, it is not right IMO.
 
Perhaps the EHD(CWD) has had some effect here, not saying I know but I have heard that last year some deer were found in the woods of northern Greene and Washington County. Now I know that the PGC said there was no proof of EHD in PA, but maybe people didn't know to report it or discarded it as an odd occurance.
 
 
#39
Dr. Trout
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/09 06:39:08 (permalink)
goby..


EHD..... not some deer ...I think the final count was over a thousand....and I am not sure any were from CWD ....

I have to search to find a tree to put my climber in. The main area I hunt is a mined out area owned by a coal company and there are 3 ponds along with a slew of brushy areas that are loaded with rabbits, small game, and songbirds.  






I think you will find that areas that have been mined and re-planted make great habitat for small game and birds... not neccassarily for deer though...
they actually do not eat that much in grasses.... they like their masts and browse more
 
 
There is plenty of feed.

 
What do you see there that they are feeding on ??????????????
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2008/11/09 06:42:39
#40
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/09 07:22:47 (permalink)
I think you will find that areas that have been mined and re-planted make great habitat for small game and birds... not neccassarily for deer though...

 
That is exactly the kind of land we hunt in S. Ohio and it supports lots of deer and our group takes at least one over 130 gross every year with the bow and pass on the 2-1/2 year olds I look for here. It is all reclaimed strip mines and thick with autumn olive, multiflora rose, hedge apples, isolated oaks , planted pine, and various grasses. Hell, even down your way my relations have good luck hunting those reclaimed mining areas. You really have to get off the farm more and listen to more people than just the PGC.
#41
bingsbaits
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/09 07:23:21 (permalink)
With deer densities at 10 deer per square mile..You mean every other deer in a 200 square mile area was killed...Seems like alot of deer to me...More PGC hype to quantify the lower numbers I think...
Glad I don't have to hunt in those units..Deer numbers are bad enough here now...

"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
 
 


#42
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/09 08:11:57 (permalink)
Ok Doc, you make excuses for and support everything the PGC says. You claim what I posted about the scoring program proves nothing. I CHALLENGE YOU ---You can get most any info you request from the PGC---What are the actual numbers, not the spin?  How many bucks were brought in to measure? How many made the minimum? How does that compare to previous years? How many that made the minimum were SINCE 2003 and how many were from BEFORE 2003?  Don't talk about a handful of good ones that prove nothing. Don't talk about the ones showing up at the taxidermists that may have come from Tracy Ridge, out of state, or some other game farm. Talk real numbers. While your at it, the PGC keeps records of the number bucks junior hunters take. The kill was 120,000 last year---how many were taken by junior hunters. The PGC, you, and others hyped the scoring program as going to prove what a great thing AR is, the PGC was concerned about being able to take care of the large numbers of deer they anticiapted being brought in to measure. You and others ridiculed those of us who dared question their program. The B.S. is over, the scoring session has ended. This is your chance to back it up with numbers if you can. The ball is in your court.
#43
gobyking
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/09 10:19:41 (permalink)
Dr. Trout. I think you are a little off base here and are commenting on something you assume you know from experience. This is not one of those exposed mine areas, it is probably 40-50 years old and nothing is exposed to the air, it looks as if this area has been fixed properly many years ago. Some kind of mining went on there, just not sure what it was. The ponds hold bass if that makes any difference.
 
The area is 60 acres of well grown over passages around ponds. The un-passable areas are thick jagger bushes around the ponds. A powerline cuts through it and deer feed down it and use it as a travel corridor. 60 acres does not make a habitat of course. There are numerous fields everywhere and some are farmed, some are just cut. There are also large hardwoods abutting both sides of the property and they are posted. The deer feel safe where I hunt because of the cover, but hardly anyone hunts either side and the deer are so calm it is like hunting season has not started yet because they are on regular travel patterns except for the small bucks chasing.
 
 
I have seen tons of larger buck and does, probably more than your used to seeing, in the past 10 years or so in this area. Also noticed a couple twin fawns this year.I shot my largest buck every here in this spot in 2004 a 130 class 10 point.
 
AS for the question of feed, I am not a biologist nor claim to be. The deer wouldn't stay there for long if there was no food. 9 times out of 10 a deer is working its way towards me with its head down eating.
#44
Dr. Trout
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/09 20:14:52 (permalink)
Thanks for explaining the type re-claimed mine you discribed... I was not thinking of one that old...
#45
Dr. Trout
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/09 20:31:34 (permalink)
S-10.
 
You wrote...
 

The PGC, you, and others hyped the scoring program as going to prove what a great thing AR is, the PGC was concerned about being able to take care of the large numbers of deer they anticiapted being brought in to measure.

 
Now there is some real BULL !!!
 
you can not find  where I said anything about any scoring programs.... never heard of them until you posted it....  and
 
I could care less about guys who want to brag about their BIG BUCKS...  how much they scored... etc...
 
give me the 14 year old and his spike ... a succesful harvest of any whitetail... or my venison cooking on the grill  and I'm a happy camper...
 
As for getting the info... as you know... I could get that easy enough...
 
but I don't care ... and it has come to a point here on this baord that no matter what "figures" I post some claim they are just spin... or not accurate .. so truth is they really do not care what they are.. they believe what they want... especially if they (PGC figures) show something different than what they believe to be true.
 
You and I have debated for years and have agreed to disagree.... and that's okay...
 
But I see no need to find out how many guys went to a scoring session...
the article you posted said 40  .. so 40 it is  .. I'll believe that.
 
But that does not prove IN ANY how many trophies were killed and are just hanging on walls in dens at this time.....
 
 
#46
Dr. Trout
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/09 20:35:14 (permalink)
Here's a challenge for S-10..
 
You wrote...
This article indicates most of the state except private ground and around the cities has the same problem

 
I asked where you saw that in the article and I see you are TOTALLY ignoring the answer to where that came from..
 
TALK ABOUT SPIN  and BULL !!!!!
#47
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/09 21:26:35 (permalink)
It's not in the article but it is in the data from the PGC's deer antler scoring results. You would post anything from the PGC in a heartbeat if it supported your, and their, claims that AR is working. Your refusal to obtain and post results and the PGC's lack of interest in spreading the word of the results is more telling than their trying to put a positive spin on it. Sorry Doc but both on this site and your own you have done nothing but support their AR/HR program and the deer scoring program was done by them to prove how well it was working. There are a couple dozen articles on the net either from the PGC or papers and mags quoting them hyping the anticipated results. WELL-- rather than always telling us how well things are going show us the proof. You said you could get the info, you have been telling us for years how well AR is working, It's time to put up or shut up. (figurtively speaking of course)
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/09 22:10:55 (permalink)
I just do not understand how X  number of guys who travelled to
a scoring session shows anything about if AR is working state wide and for the MAJORITY of deer hunters....

It was never the soul intention of AR to get trophy bucks anyhow...

some of you just took it that way.. or expected that

the comment I heard, read, and viewed on the tape was .... "BIGGER BUCKS"......  NOT "TROPHY BUCKS" would be average

remember they wanted to  get a mixed age in the buck population... and to save some 1.5 year olds..

You guys that thought that meant everyone would be shooting B&C record books bucks just heard what you wanted to hear and since you are not killing B&C Bucks you blame the PGC for something that was never their goal...

I am not even sure just what you are after....

40 people showed up at the one you posted...  so what if state wide 90 showed up or 120.. it only proves how many folks took the time to go and get their deer scored..


do you mean to tell me you believe that the only "trophy deer" harvested in Pa were the ones taken to the scoring sessions ??????? the only 3 year olds were the ones at the sessions... the only 2.5 year olds.. at the sessions....

As I said the session proved  nothing except how  many guys wanted their deer scored by the PGC.... The fact the PGC did it would probably keep a couple hundred guys away  


Only 40-45% of successful hunters turn n report cards
let alone travel to some silly
scoring session ...


How does that support or disclaim wether AR is working....

I'd rather listened to taxidermists and look at photos from successful hunters.... and listen to hunters in my area.... and around here they all agree

""" I'M MORE BIG BUCKS THAN I EVER REMEMBER""""

None are saying every buck they see is big...

we are all seeing those scrubs we became use to seeing and harvesting in the "hay day" when seeing 30-60 was common...


BUT we are also seeing 5-10 BIG BUCKS in the area when in the "hay day" we saw or heard about maybe three or four in a season....

and the PGC is saying 50% of the HARVESTED  BUCKS THEY EXAMINE (THAT'S DEAD DEER ... NOT THE GENERAL POPULATION) are 2.5 years old..

And I am sure you can show studies, etc that show not all 2.5 year old deer are bigger than 1.5

But it has been my experience that most things 2.5 years old are bigger than when they were 1.5.....




But as usual the anti-PGC folks do not believe that.....( 50% of the checked bucks are 2.5)

they have no figures... no counts... no examinations of thousands of dead deer... etc...they just choose to not believe those figures....

or compare it to other states....


You know .. like this...

California grows grapes and grapes grow in Erie, Pa...
so all of Pa should be able to grow grapes..
 
 
P>S>....
 
you wrote--
but it is in the data from the PGC's deer antler scoring results

 
If you already know the results you don't need me to post them
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2008/11/09 22:12:55
#49
bingsbaits
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/10 05:37:14 (permalink)
You'd have a little bit more credibility Doc if you could take off your blinnders...You were asked to produce numbers that don't support your views...So
As for getting the info... as you know...

""I could get that easy enough...

but I don't care ... and it has come to a point here on this baord that no matter what "figures" I post some claim they are just spin... or not accurate .. so truth is they really do not care what they are.. they believe what they want... especially if they (PGC figures) show something different than what they believe to be true. ""

 
post edited by bingsbaits - 2008/11/10 06:06:38

"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
 
 


#50
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/10 05:43:12 (permalink)
Demember recently writing this Doc----Make it 4 points state wide.... another thing that would decrease the number of hunters

I have only seen two bucks (in season, while hunting for them) in the 20 years I have lived here that were 4 on a side here in 2F.. that I could have harvested....

This would just make for MORE disgruntled deer hunters.. and personally I think we have enough of those for now
 
Tell us again how great the hunting is.  I would rather you show us.
#51
Dr. Trout
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/10 08:41:57 (permalink)
Again with the out of content quotes.....

The comment was refering to rifle season...

and I was refering to the area behind my house where I hunt  not anywhere else in the two square mile area back there



remember since concurrent seasons  (AR/HR) most years I'm back home cleaning a deer by noon and do not return to this area... second day I'm at clear creek and again usually home cleaning before noon.. the rest of the season (before retiring) I was soaking up overtime because other guys were off hunting 





I have written about the 2 square miles in other posts where I mention what was the total seen and harvested by the other guys hunting here... 

I just mentioned that guys around here are seeing some GREAT bucks and they are also seeing those scrubs we have grown accustom to seeing...


Okay I'll post some figures for you guys to tear up again...

These deer were all taken in the 2 square miles behind my place on the 1st day of rifle season..... they are the deer that were taken by the guys "I hang with" at nearby camps... not ALL the camps here.. just "my friends" from 4 camps counting me... and some years archery bucks were taken and guys could not shoot a buck even if it appeared... but had doe tags...



year.. number of hunters... bucks ....does
2000 - 12 - 4 - 0  (before concurrent seasons and the average for 20+ years for here)
2001 - 10 - 0 - 4 - all the scrubs are now protected
2002 - 15 - 0 - 3  - all the scrubs are now protected
2003 - 13 - 0 - 0 - terrible weather - some never left camp
2004 - 16 - 2 - 6 - guys from Ohio & others had no doe tags
2005 - 14 - 1 - 1 - only two doe tags available
2006 - I was just home from hospital and did not visit or get results... 


Here's some of my thoughts on those figures....... and espeically the guys...

....NO one is "buck hungry" ... we do not take long difiicult shots.. rather let someone else get an easy shot than lose a deer....

...We have not really lost any great number of hunters in the group.. we're older but still out there.. only some of us do not venture as far

...The last three years the doe harvest is off because only two of us got tags for 2F

... those figures are for the FIRST DAY OF RIFLE ONLY.... any deer taken the second day or later are not included.... I run a contest for the first day and have  since 2000 and I  keep track off what was harvested on the 1st day ....


... I hate to admit this one -- but there are two in the group that have not harvest ANY deer on opening day since before 2000... and two of us that harvest one almost every year since 2000... go figure ???

It's location - location  - location..... one of the two that does not harvest is also an older guy and I would NEVER post where he does.... but that's "his spot" from years ago and like some here, does not want to move to another...

I told him he could even move a couple hundred yards and sit in "my spot" in the Hemlocks last year .... he didn't.. but saw deer run into them about 10:30am... but no shot from doc

On average I would say at least 2 more bucks come out of there and to a  neighboring camp in the remainder of the season...

There is also one camp at the end of the lane that has bucks hanging every year 1st day and they are from SGL#54 but not right here...  and not in "the contest"...

In my travels in the area there are VERY FEW camps that do not have at least a deer or two hanging on the pole on the 1st night...... but there are a couple.. and some are even empty.... those guys stay in Allegheny County now for buck hunting.... they're gone from up here after bear season...


Also keep in mind the 2 square miles can be accessed from "the other side" of the hollow and stream and we all see guys that are NOT in "our group" and hear shooting that is not from any of us....  so there are other deer taken from here......... they just "go out" the other side and to who knows where ..



well let's see how you guys tear this post up
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2008/11/10 08:43:47
#52
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/10 09:31:29 (permalink)
Just for fun here's mine ---

2000 - 7 point.. my biggest deer -7:30am
2001 - zero  (sick.. 2 hour hunt, already had archery buck... doe on day #3)
2002 - doe.. 11:15am
2003 - zero   (doe on Dmap - day #2)(no one got one here 1st day, I MOVED)
2004 - doe.. 11:50am
2005 - doe.. 10:30am
2006 - doe.. 8:00am
2007 - did not hunt

Here's the #2 guy in the bunch
2000 - zero
2001 - doe.. 2:40 pm
2002 - doe.. 9:00am
2003 - zero
2004 - 6 point.. 8:30am
2005 - 7 point.. 10:35am
2006 - zero
2007 - no report  
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2008/11/10 09:41:08
#53
Dr. Trout
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/10 10:30:29 (permalink)
Okay... I did a little research and this is the only release I see coming from the PGC about the scoring sessions and is anther example of how different folks read the same thing and come away with two different opinions....
 
Now S-10 would have you believe this is  ----"HYPING THE SESSION TO SHOW ARs ARE WORKING""-----  I do not see it that way at all !!!!
 
what say you ??????
 
Over the years, scoring sessions were typically held every three years, but because of budget constraints, it's been six years since the last scoring session," said Carl G. Roe, Game Commission executive director.
 
"Also, thanks to the antler restrictions implemented in 2002, the chances of a buck living long enough in Pennsylvania to grow a trophy-sized rack are better than ever before.
 
"For these reasons a couple changes from past scoring session procedures have been made."

 
That change was pre-registering and you had to rough score your own deer to see that it was close to the minium limits....
 
rough scoring --- because they (PGC) did not want tons of folks showing up with their "biggest buck" they ever shot or maybe seen...  and having no idea what a scoring seesion is about or how to score a rack ... just thinking I have a trophy here...
 
 
 
 
I would agree the chances of a trophy are better than ever before for the average deer hunter  because of AR allowing deer to get older.... and I suspect a new state record will be in the near future for PA...
 
 
What hyping ????
 
Let's see the articles pointing out this HYPE ???
 
Probably some outdoor writers opinion of the above statement by Carl.........again just someone opinion(interpretation) about what the PGC states....
#54
Dr. Trout
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/10 10:41:24 (permalink)
Here's another quote from the PGC....
As the results of the past 13 measuring sessions have shown, Pennsylvania is home to outstanding white-tailed deer and black bear," Roe said.  "There is no doubt that this will continue to be the case after the upcoming measuring sessions are held and, this time around, we'll add elk to the list of big game records.



He claims we will continue to have OUTSTANDING deer and bear hunting ... he did not say trophy.. or anything about ARs....



I don't call that HYPE... just another fact

what say you ???
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2008/11/10 10:42:40
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Dr. Trout
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/10 10:52:25 (permalink)
Here's one of those outdoor writers opinion....





By Bob Frye
TRIBUNE-REVIEW OUTDOORS EDITOR
Monday, February 25, 2008







Plain and simple, Pennsylvania is producing some very big bucks these days.

That truth was on display at South Buffalo Sportsman's Club when it held its fifth annual antler scoring event earlier this month.

Of 54 bucks brought in to be scored according to Boone & Crockett measuring,
40 scored 130 or more. Nine of those finished in the 140 class, six in the 150 class,
one in the 160 class,
three in the 170 class,
and two in the 190 class.


The biggest rack scored was a behemoth that totaled 191 0/8.


That's quite a change from how things used to be.

When the club held its first scoring event in 2004, the average buck scored between 95 and 110 points, said Joe McAnich, who organizes the antler scoring event.
 
Last year, bucks were averaging 128 to 128 points, he said, with some topping 150.  This year's class of bucks was even more impressive than that.  

 
So this was a private session but as you can see from the results not many would have qualified to go to the PGC one in the first place.....
 
Maybe the PGC should have lowered the minium score to attend and got more people there....
just another  reason for the low turn-out -- PGC if you are reading this
 
again NOTHING TO DO with ARs  workinhg or not... just who shows up.....
 
 and in fact, this author seems to think they are working and producing bigger deer based on the session he is reporting on... 
 
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2008/11/10 10:59:52
#56
bingsbaits
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/10 11:11:24 (permalink)
"When the club held its first scoring event in 2004, the average buck scored between 95 and 110 points, said Joe McAnich, who organizes the antler scoring event.

Last year, bucks were averaging 128 to 128 points, he said, with some topping 150.  This year's class of bucks was even more impressive than that."
 
 
 
Mabee a bunch of those trophy hunters have taken over the club and they don't shoot small buck...
 
Or the hunters them selves in the last 4 years realized if they quit killing the 100" bucks and let them get some age every one has a chance for a Wall Hanger..
 
P.S you guys should try antler tea..It will make your sticker peck out...

"There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
 
 


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Dr. Trout
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/10 11:19:48 (permalink)
or MAYBE the deer are older  



I give up..................

let's see how active this is with out me posting  my opinions ..........


 
I'll go back to just reading all the BS and silly crap
 
 
BYE BYE....
post edited by Dr. Trout - 2008/11/10 11:21:23
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PAFISHERMAN1981
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/10 11:27:53 (permalink)
The Bucks are where you find them!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
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jlh42581
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RE: Gene pool and antler restrictions 2008/11/10 12:49:19 (permalink)
Ill gladly take a 4pt minimum, spread restriction... whatever

I dont agree we need to keep killing doe's in the masses, thats my only gripe.
#60
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