Getting started

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carpin06
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2007/05/29 13:39:20 (permalink)

Getting started

My 13yr old wants to start tying any advice....
 
Thank's
#1

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    T.T.
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/29 16:57:51 (permalink)
    1.  If he/she hasn't fished many different types of flies, under various conditions, do it.  Knowing what to expect from a certain pattern is huge. 

    2.  Don't expect to make store-quality flies immediately.  Tie, tie, and tie some more.  Re-tie on the hooks from the first few dozen attempts. (save a few to laugh at in the future)

    3.  If you haven't purchased a vise yet, just get one.  The worst thing I did was wait to buy a good one.  Just get the child tying.  Good equipment will come when needed. (heck, maybe a Grandparent will buy them a top-dollar one for Christmas)

    4.  For me, steelheading is the main reason for tying, so I concentrated on steel patterns before branching out.  I tied approx. 100 sucker spawns before I moved to buggers.  Those are simple ones, as well, and the knowledge gained transfered well to other patterns.  Now, those first two patterns are locked in, and I am confident that I could tie any variation of them well, along with creating my own. 

    5.  Don't kill your budget buy buying tons of material that won't be needed right away.  Cheap yarn works instead of angora for a newbie.  I've seen "grab-bag" variety packs of feathers recently that would have saved me some $$$ when I first started.  Certain craft feathers work well early on.

    6.  You can NEVER have too many quality bobbins! (spool holders)

    7.  Did I mention quality bobbins?  You will cut thread constantly on plain steel-edged ones. 



    I know I missed a bunch, but this is my initial list.  Good luck.
    #2
    Lochswa
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/29 19:58:47 (permalink)
    I started about the same age with a Dan Baileys starting kit. T.T is right about Bobbins and materials. I am not sure about what the starting kits are like nowadays. I would reccomend a decent set of scissors as well.  <ceramic bobbins>

    Also another thing. I didnt stick with it when i was young but I did catch a couple of trout on the flies I tied. I am not sure where u live but i was lucky when i was in college. There was a gentleman named Thom Rivell who was offering free fly tying classes that coicided with me making the transition for good to Flyfishing. If it were not for him I might still be dunking garden hackle hehe. Check and see if anyone offers any classes in ur area. This might not be the best time of year because most people are out fishing
    post edited by Lochswa - 2007/05/29 20:00:28
    #3
    T.T.
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/29 20:13:16 (permalink)
    The title of this thread is perfect to have this as our "get a newbie started" thread.  It would be nice to see everybody add some good advice for beginners. 

    Skip?  Bug?  S/K?  Jeremy?  Dano?  ...and so on???
    #4
    tippy-toe
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/29 20:27:42 (permalink)
    TT speaks the truth. Specifically his # 4 above. don't start by tying difficult patterns. Start him or her off with simple patterns that catch fish ie.. buggers, caddis larva, midge larva, brassies. This will encourage them to continue tying.
     
    Buy him or her a good fly tying book, and then have him/her get a job to pay for material and tools

    I have the right to remain silent.....I just don't have the ability
    #5
    steelydaze
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/29 20:30:16 (permalink)
    Have patience and when all else fails superglue it.
    #6
    ronnie84
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/29 21:04:46 (permalink)
    I'm really going to have to consider tying my own soon because I'm just plain going through a lot of flies. I spent $80 on flies last Saturday for example.

    To be honest, I'd mainly like to get into it for tying bigger muskie/bass/pike streamers that I can't find anywhere in fly shops, Gander Mountain or Dicks...only online. Something tells me that these types of flies are probably the most difficult to tie though.
    #7
    T.T.
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/29 21:09:37 (permalink)
    My thinking is just the opposite.  Bigger hook, bigger material, easier than tying #20 BWO.  Then again, I've never tied either.
    #8
    RIZ
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/29 21:36:34 (permalink)
    get good scissors and bobbins, as said already.  a decent vise to start, like a regal.  also pick 3 or 4 flys to get real good at tying and using most of the techniques needed for future use.  also get a good book and tutotials.
    #9
    jlh42581
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/29 21:49:27 (permalink)
    Buy A Video.... seing what someone is actually doing with their hands makes it a million times easier for looking at illustrations.

    Stay away from winged and or hackle flies for awhile, they still even frustrate me sometimes. Not only that cheap hackle is that... CHEAP. My next necks will actually be masters grade saddles.... i recommend a neck for beginners because saddles often only offer two sizes of hackle(they are great if you know your gonna tie say... 1000 size 18's) but they come with a heafty price tag for a good one.

    Ceramic bobins are worth the weight in gold. Not only do you not get spurs but if your applying pressure right you shouldnt ever break the thread(unless you scrape the hook)

    I tied on a cheap vise for years, now that I have a Renzetti I dont think I could ever go back but the one i had worked and is good for a kid. I bought an entire kit on ebay for about $15, now eventually I replaced all the tools but they worked for awhile.

    Get a reference book of all the hatches in pa. I like 'Hatch guide to New England Streams' It shows a picture and description of every major hatching fly in this area of the country.

    Just cause a hook looks like it can tie a cool fly doesnt meen it will. Ive bought some hooks and wondered why I ever bothered. Get somthing good, a fly tying hook...tiemco,dai-riki... you cant tie on baitfishing hooks, nymph hooks are different then dry fly hooks also, nymph hooks are heavy.

    Dont get so carried away with tying a bunch of flies that you forget the staple foods. I fish spring creek(bellefonte) a lot and i know it holds tons of scuds,sowbugs and midges. Theres days I pound fish while guys around me "match the hatch" and catch nothing. They spent hours tying a box of sulphurs cause they see the fish physically eat them when in reality they are keyed onto those staple foods.

    The following caps are not intended to be rude!
    THERE ARE ALWAYS MORE FISH FEEDING SUBSURFACE(NYMPHS) THEN ON TOP...also the big fish are feeding sub surface as well. It has been shown that a trout can eat half its body length in one meal. Yes, a 20" rainbow can eat a 10" rainbow. A guy spent somthing like 800 hours in scuba gear with trout and he found that trout over 18" typically do not feed on nymphs.... lesson.... streamers work in certain situations!

    I guess this is enough for now, sorry I havent been around to chime in guys... new job, lots of yard work and other house work just has me so slammed I dont have time to tie or fish.


    #10
    ronnie84
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/29 22:24:33 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: T.T.

    My thinking is just the opposite.  Bigger hook, bigger material, easier than tying #20 BWO.  Then again, I've never tied either.


    That's true. A local fly fisherman from around here (very good I might add) mentioned how he would get bigger saltwater hooks and take the tail from a squirrel and tie something up that would almost resemble a carp, something along these lines, I can't remember exactly. Anyway, he would fish at night for muskies when they were chasing the carp around and had some very interesting, intriguing stories.

    Personally, I like fishing streamers the most simply because they seem to generate the most aggressive strikes and more often than not catch the biggest fish in a pool or ambush point. I've mainly nymph fished in my time fly fishing but fishing streamers is my favorite method, thus I'd like to mainly tie them or atleast the bigger ones geared towards northerns, muskies and bass.

    I haven't really looked into it that much, although I've thought about it alot, especially recently, but I really should start preparing to tie my own. I'm just spending too much on flies every week, that's probably reason enough.
    post edited by ronnie84 - 2007/05/29 22:26:03
    #11
    mook14
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/29 22:42:36 (permalink)
    I would look for a fly shop in your area most have some type of classes.the one I took was about 8 weeks 1 1/2 hors each week . every week a new fly simple but comon tying skills. plus you can get quality materials and tools.as stated by others your flys will not be as pretty as store bought at first but stick with it if fishing for stocked trout you will catch fish .then youll be hooked nothing like your first fish on your own fly .good luck
    #12
    T.T.
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/29 22:53:06 (permalink)
    r84,  I haven't tied the big stuff yet myself, but I've picked up a bunch of supplies to do it.  That pattern gives me an idea... fall-time squirrel hunting and musky on the fresh fly.  I've got a black's tail, but it has the bones in there, so it's only good for the hair.  I can just see it for those toothy b*$tards;  I'd have to invest in a good .22 scoped pistol to pack along on a fishing trip.  Shoot a tree rat, hack the tail, tie the tail on a hook, add some hackle, and cast.  Ahhh, I can see it now.  Those beercan duuds will have nothing on us.





    Jeremy,  Great stuff except that I disagree with staying away from hackle early on.   It's so important for so many flies that I think jumping into it on a couple simple patterns and making MANY mistakes is good.  The first hackled-fly I tied (3rd ever) was an olive soft hackle. (Thanks Bughawk)  Easy as toast... easy to mess up, and easy to correct.   JMHO
    #13
    carpin06
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/30 00:32:42 (permalink)
    Thank you boy's... the class is a givein as i have never tyed myself... But can do blood dot's and the glow dot's.. i was asking for eqitment....
    #14
    Lochswa
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/30 01:26:40 (permalink)
    Lemme look around online and see what i can find in regard to starting kits. I will have to see whats all included in the kits, but like mentioned i would upgrade the Bobbin to a ceramic one and get a decent set of scissors. Even if u only end up cutting stuff like chenille,yarn,tinsel and feathers you will be amazed how dull they get. Make sure if using wire to never ever use ur scissors to cut off. You can just twist it after u tie it off and prolong the life of ur scissors.
     
     First fly I ever learned was a Wooly worm. Jlh mentioned stay away from hackle flies until u get some basics down and get a feel for things.< I think he means dry flies> I agree with him 100% but woolyworms and buggers are very easy and it seems u can never have enough of em in ur box
    #15
    salmotrutta
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/30 07:16:26 (permalink)
    Get a bobbin threader/cleaner set. Worth every penny.

    The Ceramic bobbin is a God send. Dubbing wax on the ends once in a while keeps the spools spinning nice.

    Zap a gap (super glue) works well. I find myself useing that stuff more and more to finish instead of a knot. The only time I don't anymore is on small sizes. Never need to worry about the things unravelling. I always keep 2 spare tubes of the stuff. LOL.

    The first flies I tied were a simple bead head, ribbed hares ear nymph. I didn't even put the caseing on the top. It taught how to put dubbing on and the importance of winding tight. The best thing was those first flies, as ugly as they were still caught fish. Hard to beat that one.

    I too have a Renzetti now and I could never go back. I had to special order mine on account of being left handed.

    The overlooked thing to keep it going is encouragement. Show intrest and complement the beginner often.
    The key to fly tying for me was getting over the self doubt.
    In my area there are places that put on free tying clinics once in a while. Fly shops often have tyers and they are always willing to share some little tricks.
    If you look around online there are tutorials both pic and vid. form.

    I started tying to save money. Cheaper to tie vs. buying them. Well that looks good on paper. LOL. The greatest thing to me is no longer do I need to make a trip and hope the flies I need are in stock, and of coarse catching a fish with something I created.

    I've been tying for 6 or 7 years. I often don't tie untill the night before I need them sacrificing precious sleep, but I would never go back- no matter how aweful my flies look when compared to the store boughts.

    Good luck to all who are gonna start up. It's a good thing.

    Lyrical
    #16
    dano
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    RE: Getting started 2007/05/30 17:50:16 (permalink)
    A good quality vice that you don't have to fumble around with, Regal. c-clamp instead of pedestal.  
    I think that if your going to tie mainly steelhead flies such as spawn streamers and nymphs, The Regal vise is hard to beat. I had a Regal and it was nice for basic flies. Later on in my tying years, I sold it and purchased a Renzetti rotary because I was into tying tiny trout flies and dries. The Regal was just too bulky for that. Now I'm in the market for a used Regal (ebay and such) for steelhead season.  
    One pair of quality 3 1/2" arrow point scissors for tying and one pair of sewing scissors for cutting yarn and hair. Synthetic yarn and hair will take its toll on your tying scissors.  
     
    The local fly shop should be able to set you up with quality tools and classes. Just let em know your budget.
     
    Even if he is taking classes, a good reference book for beginners is still a must.
     "The Art of Fly tying" is popular.
    Beginner books by Skip Morris is good.
     
     
     

    Gone Fishing
    #17
    fishenfool46
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    RE: Getting started 2007/06/26 07:50:51 (permalink)
    a nice starter vice from basspro will cost ya bout 35.00 is a clamp on vice with a squeeze type clamp head.also a quality light is very important don't burn out the lil guys eyes early.Hooks buying good ones is the way to go.and from there just keep the patterns simple to start with san jaun worm sucker spawn crystal meth. green winne and some nymph patterns will get him started and fishing for steelies. tight lines and screeming drags to ya.
    #18
    Porktown
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    RE: Getting started 2007/06/26 20:31:09 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: carpin06

    Thank you boy's... the class is a givein as i have never tyed myself... But can do blood dot's and the glow dot's.. i was asking for eqitment....

     
    Carpin-
    First off, I am not a fly fisherman.  I am a fisherman, that happens to enjoy fly fishing, fly tying, spin fishing, making lures for spinning gear, and just about anything that involes fishing.  So, my views on this subject are probably going to be a little different than most fly fishermen.
     
    My advice would be to buy a tying book and get him/her started on the blood dot's, glow dot's, San Jaun worms, and green weenies.  These teach the basics for your kid to become comfortable with (refer to the book, to make sure you are teaching the proper basics...).  More importantly to a child, these flys catch fish.  They also make you the teacher, so if you do start a class, they have some basics down that their Dad taught them.  (10 years from now, it will be "my Dad taught me how to tie.")  A hobby like fly tying can grow old and disapointing, if your child or most people for that matter, don't catch a fish on what they tied.  Also, probably not a bad idea, to get them started when you know the fishing is going to start to get good...  Once they get into the swing of things, take that class, or move them on to the buggers, clousers, and some simple nymphs and simple dries that are relatively easy to follow along with in a book.  Anything more than that, and it gets rather complicated, feels too much like work, can lose enjoyment.  I'm sure classes would show tricks of the trade, and make it easier.  I'd rather spend that time fishing.  
     
    I have about 10 flies that I can comfortably tie, and they all work.  I also tie jigs, which work great too.  If I lived on a trout stream or even relatively close to one, I'd probably tie more flies though. 
    #19
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