SPILLWAY

Author
JDRCAR424
Novice Angler
  • Total Posts : 80
  • Reward points: 0
  • Joined: 2007/08/22 08:48:59
  • Status: offline
2008/09/09 10:22:25 (permalink)

SPILLWAY

Can you guy sbelieve they are actually considering shutting the bread feeding to the carp at the spillway
 
Carp Meeting in Linesville
Reported by: Chris Cerenelli
 
Monday, Sep 8, 2008 @10:19pm EST
 
Does the Pymatuning Spillway look to you like the second largest tourist attraction in Pennsylvania? It does to Fred Schneider...he and his family have come here for decades to throw bread to the carp. But now that the state wants to substitute the bread for fish pellets, Fred feels the tradition is in jeopardy. 'There's reasons behind it...what it is, I don't know." he says. The state says feeding carp bread is unhealthy and would create less conflicts with ducks and geese...regardless, hundreds of carp loyalists came out to Linesville High School Monday night to defend the pastime. Senator Bob Robbins says he's had hundreds of phone calls and emails from the area and around the country clamoring to keep the feeding as-is.John Struthers Mercer agrees, saying that it's unfair for his grandson and others to be denied being a part of such a storied local tradition.People who have come here for years to feed bread to the carp are having a hard time making sense of the pellets and see it as another way for the gaming commission to make money- but the state says the result should actually be the opposite. According to Bob Barth with the Pa. Bureau of State Parks, "If anything it should generate a little less money for the commonwealth anyway...there's a concessioner here who's concerned that he won't be able to generate enough money."A few residents at the meeting say the new rule seemingly
#1

23 Replies Related Threads

    JDRCAR424
    Novice Angler
    • Total Posts : 80
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2007/08/22 08:48:59
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/09 10:25:22 (permalink)
    Here is the rest of the arcticle sorry guys .
     

    Carp Meeting in Linesville
    Reported by: Chris Cerenelli

    Monday, Sep 8, 2008 @10:19pm EST

    Does the Pymatuning Spillway look to you like the second largest tourist attraction in Pennsylvania? It does to Fred Schneider...he and his family have come here for decades to throw bread to the carp. But now that the state wants to substitute the bread for fish pellets, Fred feels the tradition is in jeopardy. 'There's reasons behind it...what it is, I don't know." he says. The state says feeding carp bread is unhealthy and would create less conflicts with ducks and geese...regardless, hundreds of carp loyalists came out to Linesville High School Monday night to defend the pastime. Senator Bob Robbins says he's had hundreds of phone calls and emails from the area and around the country clamoring to keep the feeding as-is.John Struthers Mercer agrees, saying that it's unfair for his grandson and others to be denied being a part of such a storied local tradition.People who have come here for years to feed bread to the carp are having a hard time making sense of the pellets and see it as another way for the gaming commission to make money- but the state says the result should actually be the opposite. According to Bob Barth with the Pa. Bureau of State Parks, "If anything it should generate a little less money for the commonwealth anyway...there's a concessioner here who's concerned that he won't be able to generate enough money."A few residents at the meeting say the new rule seemingly contradicts a measure years ago to attract more waterfowl to the spillway...in addition, the gaming commission says having the pellets would mean less litter in the area. Pennsylvania has invested over $3 million into the spillway through the years and over 300,000 people visit there every year.<< Back
    #2
    BASS ACKWARDS
    Avid Angler
    • Total Posts : 118
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2008/01/28 06:12:33
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/09 10:43:02 (permalink)
    Not to start a debate.....HEHE......But, I don't know what the big deal is. So little Molly and little Bobby will have to throw floating pellets, Big deal. I hope the money does get generated back to the game commission, at least they do something with the money to help conserve fishing. I love when people say - "that will ruin my business" or " that will put me under". True.....Maybe. I guess if you let it drive your business out, then your not that good of owner anyway. I think basing a business on bread and bread alone is probably a financial risk right off the bat. I have always enjoyed throwing bread to the carp and ducks, but it seems to me pellets are not that different than bread.  
    Now, how does this pellet deal work ? Do you buy it from the commission and then resell it ? Or will you have to buy it directly from the game commission as a retailer. I would hope that the commission would be smart enough to sell it to people to resell. They maintain a small profit off of the pellets and so does the small "Mom and Pop" shop.
    I believe that the best part of PA is that the commission is somewhat actively involved in conservation, preservation and insuring our great fisheries will be here for many generations to come. Weather it be stocked fish or not. I have lived in various places and can tell you first hand, with the exception of Alaska (GO PALIN ! Man she's hot !) and Oregon, PA has the best conservation effort. Do I believe that the bread is hurting anything ? NO. Am I going to be buying pellets ? NO. When I fish for carp am I still going to use bread as bait ? YES. I think the main problem people have is that the game commission will make some profit off of these sales. It does not seem to be an issue with the carp or the bread it's self, it has more to do with where the money is going.  
    #3
    MuskyMastr
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 3032
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2005/06/30 17:39:29
    • Location: Valley of the Crazy Woman
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/09 13:07:37 (permalink)
    If the only defense they have is "tradition", it may be one of the dummest arguments I have ever heard.  The studies show that the bread is polluting the lake with phosphates and the locals are worried about traditon?  Absolutley ignorant.
     
    What would we rather do feed bread to the carp or actually go fishing in a productive lake?  By eliminating the bread they are taking a step toward fixing that lake.
     
    Besides how long is it going to take the local merchants to start packaging up the cheaper dog food as opposed to fish pellets?

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
    #4
    joebaker79
    Expert Angler
    • Total Posts : 805
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2003/11/13 14:58:47
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/09 13:34:59 (permalink)
    Pellets may grow bigger fish to feed.  Raystown you can buy dogfood and feed it to the carp in the marina and every fish is 15-40 lbs.  Dont know how pellets compare to dogfood but has to have more protein than bread.  I've seen carp at Raystown that were larger than the small children feeding them.
    #5
    *commander*
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 2647
    • Reward points: 0
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/09 17:28:47 (permalink)
    since when has it become an unproductive lake? maybe for catching the zillion 14 3/4" walleyes that used to feast in open water, but other than that i'd say the lake is pretty strong. has it been researched and proven that bread is the cause of the walleye problem?
     
    also, how many zillions of fish do you think are thriving on the nursery waters side where the bread gets tossed into?
     
    if bread was a problem to the fish in that lake there would have been a problem 10's of years ago.
    #6
    Big Fathead
    Expert Angler
    • Total Posts : 915
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2006/04/04 21:41:12
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/09 17:41:32 (permalink)
    Is it true that weed killer may have done a fine job on the Walleye fishery in Pymatuning?
     
    Back to the purpose of this discussion, I don't see what the pellets will hurt. Yes I have fed the bread to the carp as long as I can remember (30+ years) but I won't mind buying a couple handfulls of pellets to throw in so the kids can just watch in total amazement! As far the vendors selling the bread I'm sure they will be able to sell the pellets, IN FACT: You cant walk into a sheetz and buy fish pellets therefore pepople are more likely to spend money at the store "where the ducks walk on the fish". This should help business. Just my thoughts! I guess there will be alot more bread for stuffing. LOL
    #7
    CRANKMASTER
    Expert Angler
    • Total Posts : 256
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2008/08/06 15:28:00
    • Location: Mercer,Pa
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/09 20:27:07 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: MuskyMastr

     The studies show that the bread is polluting the lake with phosphates 

     
    Just curious how the bread could possibly cause pollution to the lake unless its passed through the bowels of the carp ? I've never seen a pc. of bread last more than 5 seconds. It is quite fun to frisbie toss a whole bagel out there though.
    #8
    RIZ
    Expert Angler
    • Total Posts : 915
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2002/04/17 11:44:29
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/10 10:56:58 (permalink)
    so if i bring my own bread will i be fined.  plus i think the spillway is patk of the DCNR not PGC.  the the PGC will not profit.
    #9
    Bughawk
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 3247
    • Reward points: 0
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/10 11:15:43 (permalink)
    Feeding wild animals anything, be it bread or fish pellets can cause a potential problem.  I am not sure why bread is worse for the lake than fish pellets but lets say for the sake of the discussion it is.  So change to pellets, no big deal. 
     
    I do wonder what the consequences are of having such a high concentration of fish in such a limited area has on the ecology of that part of the lake?  It would seem to me the high concentration of fish would be a bigger issue than what you are feeding them.  I wonder if anyone ever thought about what might happen is a fish pathogen were to enter the population?  Most likely it would spread like wildfire through those carp.  Just another thing to think about.
     

    pax vobiscum +
    #10
    MuskyMastr
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 3032
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2005/06/30 17:39:29
    • Location: Valley of the Crazy Woman
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/10 11:24:35 (permalink)
    The issue is the amount of phosphate added to the lake, by the bread.  It is three times the normal level that the lake would experience, this greatly increases productivity of the algal and weed communities upsetting the natural balance of the lake.  The pellets will be much lower in pass through nutrients.

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
    #11
    earlysecond
    Avid Angler
    • Total Posts : 212
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2007/11/24 13:09:48
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/10 15:37:45 (permalink)
    Holy Crap (or carp in this instance) I now know why I want to quit eating white bread!  If it contains that much phosphate then can it be good for us?  Do any of the regulatory agencies have a rough guess how much bread is thrown into the spillway annually?  It must be tractor trialer loads to produce a problem!
     
    Brent
     
    Fish feed pellets contian high concentrations of omege 3 fatty acids.  This is one reason that a stocked trout is better for your bad cholesterol (LDL) than a wild trout.  Just a little cholesterol education for those interested.
    #12
    Bughawk
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 3247
    • Reward points: 0
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/10 15:51:46 (permalink)

    pax vobiscum +
    #13
    earlysecond
    Avid Angler
    • Total Posts : 212
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2007/11/24 13:09:48
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/10 21:20:50 (permalink)
    I bet the geese in the video would be good eaters.  It is hard to beat a bread fed goose.  Almost like pre-stuffed for your convienence!
     
    Brent
    #14
    JerryS
    Expert Angler
    • Total Posts : 275
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2006/06/25 23:50:13
    • Location: N.W. PA
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/10 21:59:29 (permalink)
    Here is a article from the Sharon Herald about the meeting in Linesville on Monday.  They gave a completely different reason for eliminating bread at the meeting, too many goose droppings chasing tourists away.  Sounds like more politics.

    http://www.sharon-herald.com/archivesearch/local_story_252221506.html

    Jerry
    #15
    MuskyMastr
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 3032
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2005/06/30 17:39:29
    • Location: Valley of the Crazy Woman
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/10 22:07:11 (permalink)
    The original study on the phosphate input (he did have what they felt was an accurate estimate on how much went in per year) came from Dr. Andy Turner of Clarion University, while he was working at the Pymatuning Lab of Ecology for the University of Pttsburgh.  I don't have the study handy, but if someone searched enough online I am sure it is somewhere.  If not I will try and find it later.

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
    #16
    *commander*
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 2647
    • Reward points: 0
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/10 22:47:05 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: JerryS

    Here is a article from the Sharon Herald about the meeting in Linesville on Monday.  They gave a completely different reason for eliminating bread at the meeting, too many goose droppings chasing tourists away.  Sounds like more politics.

    http://www.sharon-herald.com/archivesearch/local_story_252221506.html

    Jerry


     
    good story. also HEARD(did not see it) there was another article that was talking(joking) about what was going to happen when the geese and ducks get hit in the eyes with the pellets.
     
    first it's too much litter, then its too much carp crap, then its ruining the fishing, then its bread causing problems, now its too much geese crap. cant wait to hear whats next.
     
    #17
    Bughawk
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 3247
    • Reward points: 0
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/10 23:07:32 (permalink)
    Next it will be too many people coming to look at the fish....  Just had to say it.
    post edited by Bughawk - 2008/09/11 08:31:50

    pax vobiscum +
    #18
    earlysecond
    Avid Angler
    • Total Posts : 212
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2007/11/24 13:09:48
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/11 08:28:46 (permalink)
    Bughawk,
     
    Now YOU have probably hit the nail on the head.  Often times, people are the problem when it comes to ecology. LOL
     
    Brent
    #19
    Bughawk
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 3247
    • Reward points: 0
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/11 08:33:58 (permalink)
    Basically  the fish would not be there in the high concentration if it were not for people feeding them.  I am not against feeding the fish, but we do need to consider the consequences of doing so.  As with all things, too much of a good thing can lead to problems.

    pax vobiscum +
    #20
    JDRCAR424
    Novice Angler
    • Total Posts : 80
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2007/08/22 08:48:59
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/11 11:04:34 (permalink)
    I just find it funny after all these years the problem is being linked to the bread people are throwing into the lake....Sorry but I do not buy that. Look into the real issues affecting the lake I doubt you will find that bread is the culprit of the pollution in this lake.
     
     
     
    By the way thanks for all input to this post...I enjoy seeing other peoples opinions. 
    #21
    BASS ACKWARDS
    Avid Angler
    • Total Posts : 118
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2008/01/28 06:12:33
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/11 11:37:55 (permalink)
    I don't get the big deal about feeding the fish ????? I understand that children, as well as adults, like to go and feed them - But I apparently am missing the big picture. I lived in Linesville up until about 4 years ago, lived there about 5 years. I do know that it is a tourist attraction, but the people throwing a fit about the "bread ban" are mostly people in the surrounding community - Not the tourist. Instead of taking the children down there to feed the fish, put a fishing pole in their hands and give them the opportunity to catch one ! What would be more fun and challenging - throwing bread or pellets to the fish, or taking a kid out and teach them about the fish, it's habitat, it's feeding cycles, how to "hunt" them and ultimately - Time together with the family. Why go to a littler and carp infested area of a lake and just throw bread ? Seems to me, the spillway has turned into a spot for teenagers to go and hang out with their Buddy's. Seems to me like their have been reports of robbery and harassment there in the past couple years as well. Why expose children to sh#t like that. Every time I go there, or have been there, there is always someone throwing rocks and all sorts of things at the carp ! Not a habit or lifestyle I would want to instill in a child - especially at an early age. Bottom line - a lot of people that go there have no respect for the creatures that are there for our enjoyment. I would be satisfied if they did away with the spillway all together. I don't think fish are here for our amusement - they are here for our enjoyment !
    #22
    SuperTroll123
    New Angler
    • Total Posts : 20
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2008/08/25 01:27:13
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/11 12:34:41 (permalink)
    What is the big deal?
    post edited by SuperTroll123 - 2008/09/11 12:35:34
    #23
    MuskyMastr
    Pro Angler
    • Total Posts : 3032
    • Reward points: 0
    • Joined: 2005/06/30 17:39:29
    • Location: Valley of the Crazy Woman
    • Status: offline
    RE: SPILLWAY 2008/09/11 12:36:47 (permalink)
    Below is the link to the full text of the study which indicates the problems that phosphates from the bread cause.    Below that is the abstract of that study.
     
    http://web.ebscohost.com/ehost/pdf?vid=4&hid=2&sid=8c29983d-eb23-4aa1-ae9e-04600396faae%40SRCSM1
     
    The Linesville spillway of Pymatuning State Park is one of the most visited tourist attractions in Pennsylvania, USA, averaging more than 450,000 visitors . year(-1). Carp (Cyprinus carpio Linnaeus) and waterfowl congregate at the spillway where they are fed bread and other foods by park visitors. We hypothesized that the "breadthrowers" constitute a significant nutrient vector to the upper portion of Pymatuning Reservoir. In the summer of 2002, we estimated phosphorus loadings attributable to breadthrowers, and compared these values to background loadings from Linesville Creek, a major tributary to the upper reservoir. Items fed to fish included bread, donuts, bagels, canned corn, popcorn, corn chips, hot dogs, birthday cakes, and dog food. Phosphorus loading associated with park visitors feeding fish was estimated to be 3233 g day(-1), and estimated P export from the Linesville Creek watershed was 2235 g.day(-1). P loading attributable to breadthrowers exceeded that of the entire Linesville Creek watershed on 33 of the 35 days of study, with only a heavy rainfall event triggering watershed exports that exceeded spillway contributions. Averaged across 5 weeks, breadthrowers contributed 1.45-fold more P to Pymatuning Reservoir than the Linesville Creek watershed. If Linesville Creek P exports are extrapolated to the entire Sanctuary Lake watershed, spillway contributions of P added 48% to the non-point source watershed P entering the lake. Park visitors feeding fish at the Linesville Spillway are a significant source of nutrients entering Sanctuary Lake.
    post edited by MuskyMastr - 2008/09/11 12:38:40

    Better too far back, than too far forward.
    #24
    Jump to: