kill

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gobyking
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RE: kill 2008/09/11 00:49:27 (permalink)
I would think the herd size would remain constant, with the ratio coming closer.
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dpms
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RE: kill 2008/09/11 07:47:59 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: SPIKER

So your opinion is that killing all the doe off is going to make it better to produce more feed for the non existing trophy buck in PA?

Hmmm,makes sence if your a moron!


 
Reducing the size of the herd will improve the feed for all of the deer in a herd, which will improve antler potential.
 
Look at the deer kill over the past several years.  Seems some hunters are finding bucks to shoot.  Don't cry because you are not one of them.
 
I don't know, I think most will see who the moron is.
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dpms
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RE: kill 2008/09/11 07:49:21 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: SPIKER

I really have no clue,

 
We know.
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S-10
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RE: kill 2008/09/11 07:50:39 (permalink)
Get the doe to buck ratio less than 30:1(or whatever it was)and you'll have more bucks even though there is still the same browse.
 
 
Care to explain how that will happen since 25% of the anterless deer we shoot are bucks and always have been. This is another one of the fallicies of Alts plan. He claimed no one would shoot button bucks without having a shred of evidence to support his claim. After the initial couple of years of killing the larger , older doe which got the ratio closer now you are changing the ratio very little. The only thing that will happen now is the total number of deer (both buck and doe) will either rise or fall with the licenses issued. To make it worse the junior and mentored hunters take about 20,000 bucks most of which are the yearlings we are supposed to be saving.
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SilverKype
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RE: kill 2008/09/11 09:15:23 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: dpms

ORIGINAL: SPIKER

I really have no clue,


We know.

 
 

My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
#65
gobyking
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RE: kill 2008/09/11 10:02:39 (permalink)
S-10, I am not sure of the % of button bucks shot. You are correct and if the buck population rises this would happen more often in doe season. I was just saying the ratio was out of whack years ago and hopefully it will get lower in the future.
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thedrake
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RE: kill 2008/09/11 10:08:04 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: SPIKER

ORIGINAL: DanesDad

How many bucks in PA are born with the potential to be 160 inches?  But, how many 160 inch bucks are killed each year?  The limiting factor is not genetics, but nutrition, health of the birth mother (nutrition again) and bucks being shot at a young age.  No buck is gonna be 160 inches in it's first year and probably not in its second.  But, in PA, we were shooting anything with horns and were killing the deer before they even had a chance of reaching their genetic potential.  Plus we were overprotecting does, leaving more mouths to feed, thus reducing quality browse for the bucks remaining.  Anyone on here older than 30 remembers the days of seeing 25, 35, 45 or more deer on opening day.  I saw 40 one year myself.  But when you see 40 deer and 39 of them are does and one is a spike, or forkhorn, doesn't anyone see anything wrong with that?

AR is not a perfect solution.  S-10 pointed out that the possibility that we are shooting the best bucks every year and leaving lesser bucks to carry on (a process called High grading).  A better way would be if bucks under 2.5 years old were not legal.  But it is too hard to age a deer on the hoof for that to work.  We are shooting more big bucks now, partly as a result of leaving some young ones walk.  That has to be good.


So your opinion is that killing all the doe off is going to make it better to produce more feed for the non existing trophy buck in PA?

Hmmm,makes sence if your a moron!







http://www.pasportsmenportal.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=800&Itemid=46

Click on the link to see some of these "non existing trophy bucks" from the 2007 scoring session.
post edited by thedrake - 2008/09/12 14:15:04
#67
thedrake
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RE: kill 2008/09/11 10:10:27 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: thedrake

ORIGINAL: SPIKER

ORIGINAL: DanesDad

How many bucks in PA are born with the potential to be 160 inches?  But, how many 160 inch bucks are killed each year?  The limiting factor is not genetics, but nutrition, health of the birth mother (nutrition again) and bucks being shot at a young age.  No buck is gonna be 160 inches in it's first year and probably not in its second.  But, in PA, we were shooting anything with horns and were killing the deer before they even had a chance of reaching their genetic potential.  Plus we were overprotecting does, leaving more mouths to feed, thus reducing quality browse for the bucks remaining.  Anyone on here older than 30 remembers the days of seeing 25, 35, 45 or more deer on opening day.  I saw 40 one year myself.  But when you see 40 deer and 39 of them are does and one is a spike, or forkhorn, doesn't anyone see anything wrong with that?

AR is not a perfect solution.  S-10 pointed out that the possibility that we are shooting the best bucks every year and leaving lesser bucks to carry on (a process called High grading).  A better way would be if bucks under 2.5 years old were not legal.  But it is too hard to age a deer on the hoof for that to work.  We are shooting more big bucks now, partly as a result of leaving some young ones walk.  That has to be good.


So your opinion is that killing all the doe off is going to make it better to produce more feed for the non existing trophy buck in PA?

Hmmm,makes sence if your a moron!






http://www.pasportsmenportal.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=800&Itemid=46

Click on the link to see some of the "non existing trophy bucks" from the 2007 scoring session.
post edited by thedrake - 2008/09/12 14:14:14
#68
S-10
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RE: kill 2008/09/11 11:45:40 (permalink)
Drake-- do you happen to know how many made minimum and from what years.
#69
dpms
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RE: kill 2008/09/11 12:09:32 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: gobyking

 Get the doe to buck ratio less than 30:1(or whatever it was)and you'll have more bucks even though there is still the same browse.

 
It is hard to understand unless you do some research on B/D ratios but a 30/1 ratio is impossible.  Most experts will tell you that the worst a ratio can get is 3 does to every 1 buck.
 
Our herd was probably around 3/1 10 years ago.  Now it is closer to 2/1 or 1.75/1. 
 
Kip Adams has some good info on the QDMA website about B/D ratios that make it easy to understand.
#70
DanesDad
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RE: kill 2008/09/12 00:56:32 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: SPIKER

ORIGINAL: DanesDad

How many bucks in PA are born with the potential to be 160 inches?  But, how many 160 inch bucks are killed each year?  The limiting factor is not genetics, but nutrition, health of the birth mother (nutrition again) and bucks being shot at a young age.  No buck is gonna be 160 inches in it's first year and probably not in its second.  But, in PA, we were shooting anything with horns and were killing the deer before they even had a chance of reaching their genetic potential.  Plus we were overprotecting does, leaving more mouths to feed, thus reducing quality browse for the bucks remaining.  Anyone on here older than 30 remembers the days of seeing 25, 35, 45 or more deer on opening day.  I saw 40 one year myself.  But when you see 40 deer and 39 of them are does and one is a spike, or forkhorn, doesn't anyone see anything wrong with that?

AR is not a perfect solution.  S-10 pointed out that the possibility that we are shooting the best bucks every year and leaving lesser bucks to carry on (a process called High grading).  A better way would be if bucks under 2.5 years old were not legal.  But it is too hard to age a deer on the hoof for that to work.  We are shooting more big bucks now, partly as a result of leaving some young ones walk.  That has to be good.


So your opinion is that killing all the doe off is going to make it better to produce more feed for the non existing trophy buck in PA?

Hmmm,makes sence if your a moron!






 
So, is it your opinion that trophy bucks are non existent in Pennsylvania?
 
Hmmm, makes sense if you cant hunt too well.
#71
DanesDad
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RE: kill 2008/09/12 01:06:06 (permalink)
I believe that the PGC claims that the percentage of of the overall antlerless kill, historically is about 23%.  I'm not sure how HR and AR have effected this.  I agree that the doe/buck ratio will not get worse than 3-1 under natural conditions, but for many years Pennsylvania, the hunting keep these ratios out of whack.  You cant allow any hunter to shoot anything with horns over a two week season, then allow a limited number of hunters to pursue antlerless deer in a short 2-3 day season (which is much more likely to have a lower harvest due to bad weather) without messing up the ratio.  So, I doubt 8-1 was unheard of.
#72
thedrake
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RE: kill 2008/09/12 13:28:11 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: S-10

Drake-- do you happen to know how many made minimum and from what years.

 
No I do not.
 
My point in the post you were responing to, was to show that trophy bucks, are not non-existent. It was not a post about numbers, it was simply to show trophies are out there.
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SilverKype
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RE: kill 2008/09/12 13:33:23 (permalink)
There were 50 some entered at the one session.

My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
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