Winter trout help/advice

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BASS ACKWARDS
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2008/01/30 06:22:24 (permalink)

Winter trout help/advice

Hello all - New to the post and am lookin for a little help. I am an avid fisherman (many many years) and have caught fish off all shapes and sizes. I recently moved up to NW pa and tried my hand at trout fishing (IE..Brookies, rainbow, brown). I am oviousely missing something. I am a true wintertime fisherman, I am on french creek almost daily and normally fish for walleye - SM bass - cat's. No season holds me back. I am not a "fly fisherman" , I normally use a ultra light setup with 2-4 lb test clear mono. I for some reason can not catch (or even get to bite) this little tiny elusive fish. I have went out about 20 times this winter (since Dec) to Woodcock creek. Nice creek, looks like there would be fish, but is there ? I fish it in the winter because I am a loner. I don't like to fish in crowds. I do also fish in the summer, but mostly off my boat. I love walking down the creek and figuring out potential places that the spotted little devil will be, but for the life of me I can not locate or catch them (even in summer/fall). This winter I have primarily used live bait and/or a large fly. Like a snone nymph or a black wooly bugger with a maggot on tip. I fish it real slow in deeper pools usually with a small strike indicator. I can catch little smallies, creek chubs and small gill's daily on this creek, but the trout still run's free - Any advice ?
#1

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    nut
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/30 06:51:14 (permalink)
    never fished french or the others, maybe try downsizing your bait. a waxworm or a red worm fished under a very small float always work for me. just experiment with different things, and most of all act like a deer in the woods. sneak up on them.

    the early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

    www.theonshorefisherman.bravehost.com
    #2
    bingsbaits
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/30 07:04:37 (permalink)
    If it were spring I would suggest using small rooster tails. Not sure if they will work in winter. Salted minnows or maybe a live shiner under a float..

    "There is a pleasure in Angling that no one knows but the Angler himself". WB
     
     


    #3
    BASS ACKWARDS
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/30 09:01:09 (permalink)
    Great advice - Thanks, I have never tried just a plain old wax work under a float. I guess I have this "Trout only like insects" in my head. As far as being quiet and stalking the fish - I guess I never paid attention to that. When I fish for Smallies and such, I know that I can be standing right on top of them without fear of spooking them. This will take a little time to learn this. I have a feeling that I am over complicating this sport. I have read about 20 or so books this winter on trout fishing - and none of what it tells me works. But, they don't give any advice on cold water trout fishing. Thay can't be that complicated to catch in winter......Right???
    #4
    jlh42581
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/30 09:59:23 (permalink)
    When i fished bait, live fatheads were the TICKET in winter, no split shot, get a big enough one to cast. Twitch it a couple times, pause... they usually hit on the pause.
    #5
    kimish80
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/30 12:33:50 (permalink)
    If you truly read all those books on trout fishing you probably should have a good idea on how to read the water.  With that in mind,  try a red worm or half a nightcrawler or a minnie.  Look for a promising hole and fish.  You may need to keep the bait out their for a while but isn't patience a part of fishing?  I like to use waxies or worms with just enough split shot to get me deep enough.  I place the shot at about 12-18 in  from the hook.  Size 8 are great. If you can get your hand on some eagle claw size 7 snelled bait holder stock up they're the perfect size and I only see them on the shelves once a year at Dicks.  when you retrieve your cast (after its been out there for a while),  reel it in slow and start over.  persistance pays.
    #6
    D-nymph
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/30 13:49:52 (permalink)
    I agree on the fatheads.  Don't use any swivels or pre snelled bait holder type of hooks either.  Just a #10 or #8 hook. and depending on the depth of the pools, a split shot or two or three.
     
    Try a different creek too.  Sugar creek maybe.
    #7
    BASS ACKWARDS
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/30 14:32:58 (permalink)
    From the books I have read - and all my years in the "big creeks" - I do have a general idea of how to read water. I don't think I will have a problem finding them once I know where they are this time of year. If I know they are in pools "X" deep or water moving "X" fast, I have no problem finding the current seams to find hiding fish. I know a lot of this is just trial and error - but sometimes it only takes a small piece of advice to pull everything together and get on the right track to catching fish. I appriciate everyones help ! I can't wait to try these new ideas -
    #8
    RIZ
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/30 14:38:37 (permalink)
    for flyfishing for trout try the delayed harvest of flyfishing only section.  most have been stacked since this fall.  most other streams that were stacked last spring fell on hard times this past summer.  the water got too warm and shallow for the trout to survive, except in very specific locatations, like where a cold water source comes into the stream.  check out the PFBC web site for fall stocking locations.
     
    http://www.fish.state.pa.us/stocking/fall.htm
     
    #9
    carpin05
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/30 17:03:04 (permalink)
    Dont forget the salmon eggs!!! use a size 12 or 14 hook and one egg one or two bb size shots...
    If they are in there they will take it...
     
     
    P.S. use the good eggs not the rubber ones....
    #10
    Fishtamer
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/30 17:42:52 (permalink)
    Approach creek cautiously with sun at your back, but do not cast a shadow on the hole(fish will see you in clear conditions). If sun is in your face, the light reflects off you & fish see you easier. Wear camo & move slow. I use a small hook & a single waxworm, a 4# flourocarbon leader & tiny float. Cast into creek above hole & let it drift into hole. Use a long enough leader to drag bottom occasionally. Stealth is the key. I also had luck in Nov. with powerbait honeyworms in natural color. If you use them, they come hooked together in a string. Used two of them hooked together. Hide the hook in the first one & let the second one dangle. Small shiners also work well. Hope this helps. It works for me.
    #11
    Over the Hill
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/30 20:00:23 (permalink)
    I have to agree with minnows. Fatheads are great. If you can get rosy reds, I think they're even better. 2 x 1 better!  Good Luck. OTH
    #12
    BASS ACKWARDS
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/31 06:01:11 (permalink)
    Hey RIZ - Thanks for the link. I didn't know they had that info available. Looks like the stream I have been fishing was stocked on Oct 1 2007. I went out for a while last night and the stream was very high and muddy - and VERY windy. I managed to have a fish hooked, but whatever it was pulled me into the trees and I lost it. I don't know that it was a trout, but it definently was not one of the smaller gills of creek chubs that I have been catching. Boy did it get my blood pumpin ! I was fishing at a spot where the riffles are partialy blocked by a fallen tree. On the other side of the tree there is a small pocket that has been dug out about 4-5 feet. I must have made 50 cast to that spot, then I made a perfect cast on the far side of an eddie and it pulled my little chub right into a slow current. I waited for what seemed like eternity (maybe 1 min ??) and them my float started going into the current. It did not pull the bobber down - just moved it like a shark with it's fin out of the water. I gave it a tug and it definently pulled back.Then it went up under the fallen tree and instead of being patient - I kept tuggin. I am so glad that there is a forum for NW PA where real sportsmen give sound advice to a novice. I can't wait to return the favor and help someone with advice that will help them catch my favorite fish - 
    #13
    jlh42581
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/31 09:33:26 (permalink)
    I have really been paying attention to the winter time feeding habits of trout on my home streams in the last 3 years. Heres what Ive found. Keep in mind I fly fish.

    The trout on very cold days will take very large flies. Im talking 4" streamers, size 10 glow bugs, and size 12 nymphs when usually 16-22's are the winner. When the temp rises slightly thats not the case almost instantly. While I find trout in the deep holes poked right up against the riffles in the spring and summer, this is not the case in the winter. The cold water has so much oxygen they dont need to stay in those areas. The temp is so cold that they are living in basically suspended animation. In the winter the fish move out of those feeding lies into very shallow water. Im talking water that doesnt even cover the top of my boots. You really gotta either have exactly what they want or use something that puts off alot of motion. Hence the 4" streamers they hit. When fishing a streamer they rarely hit it on the move, its almost always on the stop. Twitch the rod and strip it at the same time, pause, let it drift for a second,move it, pause. If you see a fish following point the rod upstream and twitch it, let it drift, twitch it back up like your teasing them. They cant resist.

    The moral of that story is look for the fish in winter in shallow water. They dont seem to hold in the deeper runs. This doesnt pertain to steel though, just normal trout.
    #14
    RIZ
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/31 10:28:56 (permalink)
    Hi Bass  glad to be of help.  what section of french do you fish.  i normally float a section from rt 6 bridge down to a mile above cambridge springs.  not trout water but some nice water there for other types of fish.  but i would like to expand my range and find new water.  also remember in winter, fish do not like to fisht current and hold where they can expend less energy but still can get something to eat.  that's why you got the hit behind the tree, just letting it sit there.  also another place to try up your way, maybe a bit far west, is the shenango outlet.  they stock a lot of trout there and you can also catch many other types of fish there.  however you have to water the water release, to much get dangerous, especially if you're wading.
    #15
    doubletaper
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/31 10:42:09 (permalink)
    jlh, i have to agree with you some-what. i'm sure some trout stay in the deeper pools but upon careful observation found some in the open absorbing the sun. i used to do observation fishing up on little sandy during cold weather and found i had to wait untill the sun was upon the creek, sometimes not until 9:00am, until the brookies started feeding. just something to think about fishing in colder weather, the sun does have an effect on stream fishing. ~dt 

    http://streamsidetales.bl...015/05/helles-yea.html
    it's not luck
    if success is consistent 





    #16
    jlh42581
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/31 11:31:47 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: RIZ

    Hi Bass  glad to be of help.  what section of french do you fish.  i normally float a section from rt 6 bridge down to a mile above cambridge springs.  not trout water but some nice water there for other types of fish.  but i would like to expand my range and find new water.  also remember in winter, fish do not like to fisht current and hold where they can expend less energy but still can get something to eat.  that's why you got the hit behind the tree, just letting it sit there.  also another place to try up your way, maybe a bit far west, is the shenango outlet.  they stock a lot of trout there and you can also catch many other types of fish there.  however you have to water the water release, to much get dangerous, especially if you're wading.


    Im going to disagree with you a little bit here RIZ based on scientific findings. All fish expend less energy in faster water then slow. In slow water fish use all their fins to hold position. In fast water they can hold simply by holding the fins in position rather then moving. Have you ever been to the beach on a windy day and the seagulls hold in one spot without flapping their wings. The same prinicipals work with fish and hydrology.

    Check out the video feeding lies http://www.underwateroz.com/oz_page_4.htm

    these are not fishing videos, they are on feeding behavior, how fish act in water types and so forth. They are filmed almost entirely underwater.
    post edited by jlh42581 - 2008/01/31 11:37:03
    #17
    BASS ACKWARDS
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/31 12:04:00 (permalink)
    Man - what awesome replies. I am going to blow out of work early and hit little sugar creek for a while today. I am going to try to fish some place that is not controled by a "Dam" dam. I have also heard that they have wild brookies there. Just what I have heard. Don't know the truth to it. I guess in a round about way, ever stream is different and every day is different. Where the fish are today - they might not be tomorrow. Everyone has given great advice of how to start, where to look and what to fish with. I guess the rest is up to me. I have learned a lot that will help me single out good spots - not just casting into every spot in the creek. It will help me single out a lot of water.
     
    RIZ - I fish all over french creek. I have fished spots from NY at the beginning and spots where it dumps into the Allegheny. I do have my favorites though - The stretch from Saegerstown down passed the potato fields is excellent fishing. I have caught as many as 100 smallies in a day there. Mind you - most of them are 8-12" , but on 2-4 lb test it is fun. It really depends on what I am fishing for. Walleye - my best spot is in downtown meadville. Bass - as mentioned above. Musky - where it meets the allegheny. Pike and pickeral - upper state by NY line (in the mud bottoms).
     
    Oh well - Off to try it again. Wish me luck and thanks for the great post.
    #18
    RIZ
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/31 15:05:29 (permalink)
    checked ou the link and the video played about 30 secs.  do i have to by it to see the rest to understand what you're saying?  because what it looks like is a trout like to hold in faster water to get the food that comes flying past but has found a 'dead' spot so it can stay put.  you can treat wind the same as water, basically a fluid moving over a solid object, only that the water is 10,000 time more dense therefor applying more pressure.  saying that, as you drive down the road, you put your hand out the window at 60 mph and you feel a lot of force pushing your hand back but as you slow down to 20 mph when you see the cop car up ahead, yuo feel a greatly reduced amount of pressure on your hand.  because the amount of force upon an object is directly proportional to the velocity, this is called Stokes' Law.  so to stay in in position a fish has to exert the same amount of force, which is directly related to energy, as the amount of force applied by the water.  so what i actually believe is happening is that the fish is able to find a micro-eddy in the fast water where all it has to do is maintain it's position by using small adjustment using it's fins.
    #19
    jlh42581
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/31 15:17:25 (permalink)
    Yeah, you will have to by the video to fully understand it but that is not whats happening. When you stick your hand out the window your creating a flat surface. Turn it sideways and now your hand is stream lined, turn the back of your hand down and the arm goes up, turn the leading edge down and it dives. Keep in mind trout have two peck fins and those arent the only fins they use for control. A fish with a damaged peck fin would have problems in that fast current. To undertand whats really happening under the surface, feeding wise, how the trout moves and what fins do what you really should buy the movie. I plan to buy all in the series. Most people also think fish always face upstream which isnt true. There are heavy riffles where you do get the underwater eddy effect and although the current on top looks to be moving down stream, the water is actually moving upstream. The reason a log holds fish is because its cover, combine that with that most times the water breaks up forcing food to the bottom and you have a prime feeding lie. It has nothing to do with energy expended. They show this in the video where the fish are holding in the heavy current and using basically no fin movements. In the clip of slow water every fin on the fish is moving(pecks,anal,adipose, dorsal,tail) in order to hold that fish in its position.

    Be the best $20 you ever spent to learn about fishing, promise you that much.
    #20
    psu
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    RE: Winter trout help/advice 2008/01/31 17:16:17 (permalink)
    RIZ,
    Stokes Law applies to an object moving through a fluid, the drag equation applies to the relative velocity of an object in a fluid.  It's also dependent on the area of the object perpendicular to the flow, which for a trout is very small.  jlh knows his fish, and apparently his fysics as well...
    #21
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