Mean High Water Mark?

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indsguiz
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2007/10/11 15:57:17 (permalink)

Mean High Water Mark?

Gentlemen,
      I'm hoping somebody can clear this one up for me.  When I heard of the "Little "J"  ruling I was told that the wading was permitted to the "Mean High Water Mark".   When I was trying to fish the "j" last week a person told me I had to stay in the water.  The mean high water mark is defined as the mid point between the high and low EXTREMES of distribution.  That would make it the mid point between the flood and the drought stages.  If this is true half of the Espy land would be within the mean and travelling would be possible just about anywhere within 20 feet of the stream.  If you must stay in the water that is a different story.
     Pease tell me which is the truth since I don't want to break any trespass laws.

Illegitimis Non carborundum
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    Sculpin 14
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    RE: Mean High Water Mark? 2007/10/11 16:34:07 (permalink)
    It's very funny you asked this question. I recently took my father down there and we took two vehicles and parked one down at Rothrock, and started at Spruce, I knew about the high water mark rule and suggested staying in the water as much as possible cause I've been into so arguements down there before and there just a waste of time. Well my dad said if its high water mark then hell we could be walking down threw the farm, and after about 5 minutes of slipping on rocks he was. So the way I look at it, I think you can get away with walking on the shore but be sure of this, if your on there property just a little to far from the creek the'll be on your****
     
    What really ****es me off is the fact that all there signs are on tree that are easily in the high water mark.
    #2
    salmotrutta
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    RE: Mean High Water Mark? 2007/10/11 17:04:29 (permalink)
    So does anyone know where the actual marks are to be? Where could one get such information?

    Lyrical
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    jlh42581
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    RE: Mean High Water Mark? 2007/10/11 18:06:40 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: salmotrutta

    So does anyone know where the actual marks are to be? Where could one get such information?

    Aerial photos at flood stage
    #4
    dano
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    RE: Mean High Water Mark? 2007/10/11 18:28:51 (permalink)
    You must remain below the normal high water mark which is located somewhere between the banks.  
    Where that line lies, only God knows.
    Don't confuse normal high with flood stage or you'll be trespassing.
     

    Gone Fishing
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    casts_by_fly
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    RE: Mean High Water Mark? 2007/10/16 16:00:27 (permalink)
    The normal high water mark is defined as the point where riparian vegetation gives way to stream. It is NOT the flood line. When you look down a stream (especially a freestone PA stream) there is normally a shallow shelf of rock/gravel/sand along the edge that is just damp in the summer. If you move away from the stream you see normal long blade grass. The point where the vegetation changes is the high water mark.

    Also remember that you are permitted to walk onto private land OUTSIDE the high water mark where it is unsafe to stay within the high water mark. For instance, if the stream is a steep bank style stream and the water drops into a 6' deep hole, you are permitted to get out of the stream, walk around the deep portion, and get back in below. You aren't permitted to linger, just pass.

    Thanks
    Rick
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    Sculpin 14
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    RE: Mean High Water Mark? 2007/10/16 16:07:09 (permalink)
    Thanks Rick for the information about the unsafe part. Thats good to know!
    #7
    thedrake
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    RE: Mean High Water Mark? 2007/10/16 16:24:21 (permalink)
    If you guys have questions about where to fish there, call Allan Bright at Spruce Creek Outfitters. He is always more than happy to give information on Little J access. Afterall, he started the lawsuit against the SRC, and his flyshop is within view of the area in question.
    #8
    Thats_Hot
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    RE: Mean High Water Mark? 2007/10/16 16:26:45 (permalink)
    From http://www.adventuresports.com/river/nors/us-law-rights.htm

    "The ordinary high water mark is the highest that the water gets in an average year--but not the highest it gets during extreme flooding. For purposes of river recreation, it's simply a matter of where the vegetation and soil show the effects of the water. On most rivers it's pretty obvious--below the ordinary high water mark you see water-dependent vegetation like green grass, small green bushes, tamarisk, or other plants that you don't see up on the surrounding hillsides. And you see sand, gravel, and rock that have been washed over by water, while above the ordinary high water mark you see more dirt and soil."
    I've also heard that you can get around obstructions by walking on private property, but my guess is you shouldn't push that contention.  Sure, it may be "legal", but do you really want to go to court to prove you were right.  At least at the Espy water, you don't have to worry about that too much.
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    thedrake
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    RE: Mean High Water Mark? 2007/10/16 16:27:35 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: indsguiz

    Gentlemen,
         I'm hoping somebody can clear this one up for me.  When I heard of the "Little "J"  ruling I was told that the wading was permitted to the "Mean High Water Mark".   When I was trying to fish the "j" last week a person told me I had to stay in the water.  The mean high water mark is defined as the mid point between the high and low EXTREMES of distribution.  That would make it the mid point between the flood and the drought stages.  If this is true half of the Espy land would be within the mean and travelling would be possible just about anywhere within 20 feet of the stream.  If you must stay in the water that is a different story.
        Pease tell me which is the truth since I don't want to break any trespass laws.

     
    The reason that many people tell you to stay in the water is so there is no doubt that your staying within the law. Donny Beaver will call the police if he sees someone out of the water and on dry land along the espy water. I have seen it with my own eyes.
    #10
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