Yet another follow up on everybody's AR/HR population of deer troubles of death and love and hate

No the title does not make sense but,

What the Average (and fanatic)PA hunter would love to see is to go back into time around 10 years ago when the herd was strong.

Where they could walk into woods near or far and see deer in it, hell i'd like to see that too.

Where they could harvest ANY kind of buck just becuase they didnt apply for a doe tag...nor maybe didnt want to a shoot a doe anyway.

Where they still could trophy hunt no matter what the antler restrictions said...

And when it was just fun to be out and actually see deer in general.


THAT being said, I really think the PGC needs to think of the average people. I am not average. But they really need to think of them more so then not, like Danes said there is and still probably will be MORE of them in the woods still harvesting a greater total of deer then any of the guys that lives in the woods. percentage wise its just inevitable that they will harvest a greater total of deer. the PA hunter is not known to pass deer. and never will be. they really did take that into consideration when they put the Herd Reduction Program into full force, they knew what we'd do...thats why they did it.

Now that being said, this is the real task at hand that is the hardest, I really think our voices not complaining about the game commision but to other then complain to the "new guys" (not the same freaking internet people) about what is up with the herd in your area and what WE NEED TO DO TO HELP IT! Play by the typical pa rules but hey tell a guy not to shoot 5 does how about 2? what can you do with 5? that you cant do with 2...thats a terrible metaphor but i think you know what im trying to say...instead of saying yeah..man there is no deer POW shot a doe in the next breathe, think about it..

The herd isnt going to really get populated unless the Game Commission steps in and says hey, you cant shoot deer anymore. and they aren't going to do that obviously...

I'm not one to say stop shooting the does off, but it really needs to be looked closer at...around my area i do remember woods having a great number of deer so great it would have alot of hunters in there..now the percentage it gets hunted is probably down 80% but yet where did those people go? to infringe on another area with deer?

I guess my point is the guys that fill the doe tags move to areas where the deer are..good for them they found a new spot for deer...what about the old?

Hunters are like parasites they will bounce around to the herd pockets to produce more posted land and produce a herd reduction everywhere. and make it harder for alot of the average joes that dont have there own land, and cant get permission to the posted areas, thus is why they quit or give up. THATS what the problem is with the two weeks of doe hunting and the large amounts of doe tags printed out.


i was for herd reduction......not herd murder every year...

adapt or perish? or go to meetings and voice or opinion to the money hungry game commision. i would personally love to go back to the 3 day of doe-that was plenty enough time to get your deer, and just my opinion but left alot less deer injured in the woods. i have seen more gimpy deer in the past couple years, i know not all from an arrow or a bullet, but there has been an incline. i have no respect for the pgc, and never will. And from your post noplace i can tell your a HORNEATER, not me i like meat!!

You hear from alot of the younger hunters about the nice bucks now as compared to before AR. As for myself, the top 10 bucks a have ever seen were all seen before 2000. In 43 years I have seen a lot of bucks. The big bucks were there then too, they were not ALL spikes or 4 points.

If you look at the PGC's own numbers, the best years for buck hunting statewide both in sheer numbers of bucks killed and bucks making the record book was the decade BEFORE HR/AR.

im not saying this horn restriction isn't producing bigger deer. i believe it is in my area atleast, but i am not one to "horn hunt". Noplace just a question for you!!! Do you take any of your kids(if you have any) or nieces or nephews hunting with you?? this question is based on when i was a child and was waiting for daylight to come and see what all the rukus was around me, let alone 20-30 deer around my stand. Any kid in there right mind would die to have that again, and be able to see and experience the woods in them days. But now we have been strickened by the "trophy hunter mentallity". they do have childrens days which i am totally for, but without the numbers it is not the same!!

Trout, my daughter is 11, and she only likes to hunt squirrels. My 14 year old nephew killed a 7 pt his first year hunting(1B). His second year he killed a doe. This year he decided he was going to take a year off!!!(could not believe it). But guys don't live in the past, live in the present. What's done is done. You got to play the hand you are delt. You know you CAN'T make a kid\person hunt.   

I've hunted I while ( as little Bull knows)and he has seen the changes.When he was youger he had no problem shooting does,{because any woods I took him to had tons of deer)now that he's older he CHOOSES not to shot them, (because they aren't everywhere),and I respect his choice,he hunts long and hard during bow season in Ohio and Pa.He's had great luck (and skill) the past few year on bucks,I on the other hand have been unluckier and have shot a few bucks but more does.I've always hunted doe and only will,I not going to shoot a doe from a area that has a hand full,I saw 27 does the first day,and they where not repeats,because they all came from one way and crossed a road into posted property.I felt the herd could be reduced in that area without really hurting the herd,so thats where I shot my 2 does.I hunt where deer are and so does he.I think there have been all but 2 seasons that I have not shot a doe(in 45 years)(excluding the years I shot bucks)Some years you where only had a one deer limit,buck or a doe,then they started giveing out more doe tags and expanding more shootable doe days,I never had a problem with a two day doe season. Maybe some of you think things are better now,some of us things where better then,but the truth is we have the find somewhere between what we have had and what we have.The herd needs to come back 15-20 percect,change some laws,less doe tags ,less days to kill them for a few years,if the herd get too larger,give out more doe tags for a year,I can't see a huge difference with the AR,but I can live with it,so keep it or change it it doesn't matter to me.First of all I'm a hunter and live with my choices as what to kill,this is the real world not TV,and in my opinion Pa. deer herd can NEVER BE MANAGED RIGHT,to many variables,to many hunters,not enough huntable land,AR,save alot of small bucks to be shot by kids,That fine but sort defeating the purpose (or there Daddy)At least 50% of the buck kill in our local paper where small 6 pt and under bucks,by-by young bucks,some area have good numbers, other area have none,HOW CAN THEY BOTH BE MANAGED THE SAME WAY,the areas with few get less and less,then there will be none.Don't think it can't happen(Buffalo),it's not to late but somebody better step in quick,The whitetail is an amazing animal and can rebound,I will always hunt(till the day I can no longer walk or Die)If Pa.deer hunting take a more downway spiral,I will hunt more out of state,and if out of state hunting gets bad,I'll go back to my 1st love running beagles and shooting squirrels with a 22,I,m a hunter and always will be.Thank god there still geese,that's the only shotgunning I've done in the last 8 years.PGC is in money trouble,so chances are there going to keep things the same way,my opinion thing in the Pa deer woods are going to get worst,so the choice will be put in the hunters hand to do the right thing.Good luck where all going to need it.

I never want to go back to the two or three day doe season after the buck season. If you want to lower the kill, sell ferwer tags. Dont put hunters in the position that they have to use more vacation and be away from their families even more than they are now.

I would be happy just to go back one year, worst year since the alt massacre of brown/down season in my opinion..write the commissioners, only way to help the hunters..there has always been big bucks in the woods, just nobody waited to shoot one unless it was the first one bye..reason for bigger bucks now, no one in woods to shoot any buck in most mountainous areas,..stop the "dmap"....first year of brown/down..counted 150 shots before 8am first day, now you don't hear 30 shots all week..tell's you something..no deer or no hunters.

Be patient, this may take a while.....also, it is only my opinion....may not even be the right place to express my feelings...........

1. A/R isn't that bad.
It gives most bucks a chance to live an extra year.  I understand that it is not enough time to produce huge bucks.  That wasn't the idea.  The idea was to balance the herd.  I think it is working.  If you want big bucks(old bucks) hunt private property, and manage it.  If you don't have that option, remember that people in hell want ice water.  Few, and I mean FEW bucks are lifetime spikes/fork horns.  I also understand that some are lifetime 6's with no brow tines.  These are definitely the exceptions.  If you have one of these exceptions where you hunt, and you aren't legal to shoot him, then take a kid along and let him/her shoot him.

2. H/R has gone too far. 
This is the general assessment from what I am hearing around the state.  If you own property, and you want more deer, post it no doe hunting.  Don't shoot does. That is pretty simple.  I am lucky, I hunt primarily Greene Co. in Pennsylvania, and we haven't been hit as hard as some of yinz have.  We got hit with the EHD is some places a few years ago really hard, and as a result, we have much more localized deer concentrations.  Some places have tons of deer, some places have very few still, including where I hunt at in GreeneCo.  I haven't shot a doe since the EHD, and I am not complaining.  I don't see nearly the deer I used to see, big deal.  I don't shoot does, and hopefully within a few years, the population will begin to climb back up.

3. Small Game Hunting/KIDS
This is something that I can't stop griping about.  If you want to get a kid involved in the outdoors, and you haven't had any luck deer hunting, take him/her squirrel hunting.  The rabbits are pretty much concentrated to yards in the suburbs(thanks to the wonderful protection of the most efficient/intelligent predators in the world, the raptors), they virtually quit trying with pheasants, and grouse are a gamble from year to year.  The only thing that remains constant is squirrels.  There always seems to be a decent abundance of them, and they are fun to shoot, and delicious.  It is how people in the 50s-60's got into hunting.  Why not now?  If the kid needs the instant gratification of killing a 4-pt buck that he picks out of a herd of 30 doe, then I suspect he might not be cut out to be a hunter in today's world.  This may suck, but it is a fact. 


Finally.............

Instead of bickering amongst ourselves about crap we don't stand a chance in hell of changing, we should all be getting on board with the stopping of the raping of our natural land.  Has anyone seen Mountain Top Removal Mining?  Picture the Marcellus Shale gas rigs, to the power of infinity on the destruction scale.  The biggest problem with our rural areas is that there is no one there with any true intelligence/power/money to protect them. 

We need to STAND TOGETHER; bow guys, 1st day rifle guys, small gamers, fly fisherman, and the once a year trout guys.  This is the only way we will ever get anything accomplished.  Some things will never be changed.  We will never be able to go back in time.  If we can get together on some other issues, preferably the ones looking ahead and not back, then we can stand a chance to win some battles for the common good of our sport.

And with that said, begin tearing me a new one, telling me I'm an Idiot, Cussing at me with these **** star things, whatever you want to do.


have a MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!

ORIGINAL: 270wbmag

 now you don't hear 30 shots all week..tell's you something..no deer or no hunters.

 
No hunters but no deer either ?    Clearly, there are other issues at hand.
 
 
 
I hear the same thing every rifle opener.    All the shootin' down low and not much up top.  Some say all the deer are down low.   Or is it just all the hunters are down low.

ORIGINAL: Ironhed

Very well put, Tippe!

Ironhed

 
+1

jus adding my two cents here but i like the way things are going right now, AR is great. archery season allowed me to see some amazing deer that dragged me in the woods many nights , doe numbers are low , but whos fault is that , i personally dont think theres a problem with someone filling their tag and a bonus , its just the people that claim to kill more. today at school i had a conversation with a kidd that said he and his buddy between the two of them killed 16 deer last rifle season, thats what potentially 48 deer to a herd. me and my dad took out 2 doe, which is like 6 doe. those two guys killed the equivilent of 8 people taking a doe a piece.. thats a problem we have to deal with . there are many people out there doing this.. open your eyes ... sorry i jump around alittle my main ideas usually get jumbled as im not the best writer ..

Deer season about over and this subject is about ready for bed. There was very good discussion on these subjects . Everyone had some very good points even if I disagreed with their view. I learned a lot from some of you and I thank you. I am still leaning to my arguements but can understand some other points of view much better. I had a successful season overall and I hope most of you did also. We can hope for better seasons ahead. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all. WF