Can anybody tie this fly?

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indsguiz
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2007/08/18 13:00:30 (permalink)

Can anybody tie this fly?

Gentlemen,
      A while back I witnessed a man down on the Cumberland river using (and tying) a very unique streamer type fly.  When finished it looks like a silver minnow.   The man started with a very long shank hook, he then tied some lead wire around the shank about the frist 1/3 of the shank back from the eye.  Then he built up the body using a fluffy/shaggy type of yarn, in pearl, that looked like tiny christmas tinsel.  Then he took some very long, dark grey/black fur and tied it on facing forward over the eye and he tied some pearl/cream fur facing forward under the eye. he then tied 4 tiny red feathers under the body about where the lower fins are on a trout and two tiny feathers up front where the eyes of the fish would be.  Then he used a cone device to pull the forward facing hair back over the body and tied it to the beginning of the curve of the hook.  Then he pulled the small feathers out thru the over fur and trimmed the tail in a vee and the thing looked like a tiny brook trout, or silver minnow.  It was a killer on the big browns on the Cumberland and I figure it would be great if I could find out the name to buy some for the tribs.  Wish I had a picture but I lost the one the man gave me.  Anybody have an idea what I just described?

Illegitimis Non carborundum
#1

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    indsguiz
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/19 11:40:32 (permalink)
    Gentlemen,
         There has got to be ONE Tye Flier who knows what this is?   Anybody, , , Anybody, , ,  Beuler?

    Illegitimis Non carborundum
    #2
    atroutbum2
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/20 07:34:07 (permalink)
    It soundl like a triple threat (or a variant of it). Its a pattern tied by Mike Laskowski up at Oil creek outfiters.  Once you know the trick on how to tie it they are easy but describeing the trick is hhard without seeing it done.

    The trick is to put on the cone , then tie the fur po8inting over the eye of the hook , then pop the fur tie on point into the base of the cone, this forces the fur to flow over the body of the fly ,  then tie the rest of the fly.

    There was an article in fly tyer mag last year with a step by step but i cant remember which one.
    post edited by atroutbum2 - 2007/08/20 07:37:26
    #3
    kyler16
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/20 08:13:08 (permalink)
    Im gonna attempt to tie this... Ill post a pic after I finish murdering what you described lol 

    "If you kill it, eat it. If you eat it, cook it right."
    -Steve Rinella
    #4
    jlh42581
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/20 08:22:17 (permalink)
    I tie basically the same pattern as a clouser, sounds to be about half the work of the fly you describe. If I could see it, I could prob tie it.
    #5
    indsguiz
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/20 13:53:55 (permalink)
    Gentlemen,
          Well, I would have posted a picture, BUT there's a big brown trout about a mile below the dam on the Cumberland that wanted the fly more than I did.

    Illegitimis Non carborundum
    #6
    dano
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/20 17:07:28 (permalink)
    Ya got me, Jack.
     Not a triple threat. Kind of like a thunder creek or bullet head but not quite that either.
     They do make a tool to help push the reversed tied hair backward. Called a bullet tool but a piece of tubing works just as well.
     Sounds like your going to have to find "that guy".  

    Gone Fishing
    #7
    indsguiz
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/20 17:43:32 (permalink)
    Dano,
        The gentleman in question could knock out one of these in about 10 minutes and keep up a conversation!  Finished; the fly looks like a minnow or young brook tout.  The pearl "tinsel" gives the body some bulk and sort of pulses thru the outer hair.  Plus the long outer hair has the general shape of a minnow body.  It's an absolute killer on big browns.  Should have held on to the one he gave me.  Sort of "swims" head down on the retrieve putting the hook right up in the strike zone.   Might be good for steel.
    post edited by indsguiz - 2007/08/20 17:44:39

    Illegitimis Non carborundum
    #8
    indsguiz
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/24 07:24:54 (permalink)
    Gentlemen,
         Still nobody who even wants to attempt it?  Let me put it this way. . . I'd like to buy some if anyone ever gets it right.  Just post pictures of your best guess.

    Illegitimis Non carborundum
    #9
    jlh42581
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/24 08:27:51 (permalink)
    That really sounds to me like something he home cooked. I doubt you'll ever find that specific pattern without talking to that person again. I am willing to show the clouser brook trout if you want. Its not exactly rocket science.(dark gray black fur huh?) Squirrel tail hair? Eye of a newt? lol. Just buy a yozuri pins minnow and slap that on then work it like a streamer. 
    #10
    luvinbluegills
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/24 12:09:53 (permalink)
    Sounds like a variation on "hi-tying". Without the cone it sounds like you coulds just pull the hair/synthetic back and tie in at the hook bend. I've got some old flies I did this with using Krystal Flash and a yarn body and if I can find them I'll take a picture to see if it's similar to what you're describing. The process sounds similar except for the additional fins. 

    Faith is only as good as its object
    Adventures with Fish
    #11
    indsguiz
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/24 13:59:46 (permalink)
    luvinbluegills,
         That's exactly what made this fly unique.  Tying the "tail" at the bend of the hook and then trimming the hair that extended past the bend (about 3/8 - 1/2 inch) into an approximation of a tail.  The thing looked just like a minnow in the water.

    Illegitimis Non carborundum
    #12
    pghmarty
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/24 14:17:54 (permalink)
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    jlh42581
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/24 15:51:49 (permalink)
    Tell me we havent been guessing about a deciever.
    #14
    indsguiz
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/24 16:44:42 (permalink)
    Jeremy,
        My knowledge of fly names usually runs to:  Some kinda hopper, somekinda ant,  almost a mosquito, and sucds, caddis, and wooly buggers.  Once it gets past there I'm LOST.  I usually fish by colors; like brown, grey, tan, black, bright red.  Make one, post a picture and I'll tell you if it is.

    Illegitimis Non carborundum
    #15
    dano
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/24 17:44:28 (permalink)
    Jack, I can picture the fly you speak of. Not sure of the materials.

    From your description, It doesn't Have a cone head or bead at the eye, correct?

    Here is a thunder head. The hair is pulled back but is secured a third way down the shank instead of at the rear.



    Here is a bullet head. Kinda like the thunder head.
     

    Here's a triple threat with cone head. It uses artificial fur but no under body.



    I was thinking that the triple threat style would work. A body of pearl estaz could be tied in before the fur is drawn back.
    The little red feathers can be tied in reverse style. Then the the outer fur (or veil). That way, when we push it back (reverse it) the red will be on top. 
    All we have left is to tie down at the bend and clip.




    .
    post edited by dano - 2007/08/24 19:58:02
    #16
    indsguiz
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/24 19:39:17 (permalink)
    Dano,
        The bottom one is close but no hard head, or eyes.  He used small pieces of feather for eyes and the body was much plumper, and the hook longer.  The body was fluffy, but soft almost like sponge. But the hair colors are right.   Picture the top fly, with no pronounced head/body seperation;  Fatter and with the hair tied at the bend of the hook (actually right where the bend starts or a little below).  Then with about 1/2" of "tail" extending out as long as the bend of the hook, or a little longer.  Fat in front like a muddler.

    Illegitimis Non carborundum
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    woodnickle
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/25 10:31:05 (permalink)





    -1376)



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    woodnickle
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/25 10:32:59 (permalink)

    #19
    indsguiz
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/25 16:23:14 (permalink)
    Mikastorm,
         the bottom fly/streamer; the colors are right the bulk is right, just lose the eyes  and tie & trim the tail behind the hook bend and we've got a good start here.  I think the feathers he used on the front represented eyes and the bottom red "fins" were him changing a pattern.   Did you tie these?

    Illegitimis Non carborundum
    #20
    woodnickle
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/25 22:19:14 (permalink)
    Jack, I wish I was that good. I saw these on the sight above. Just wondering if one of these were close.

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    jlh42581
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/26 09:44:50 (permalink)
    Guys,
    That streamer doesnt look to be anything more then some bucktail, a colored grizzly hackle and some dumbell eyes. Im SURE you guys can tie that.
    #22
    dano
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/26 11:24:20 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: jlh42581

    Guys,
    That streamer doesnt look to be anything more then some bucktail, a colored grizzly hackle and some dumbell eyes. Im SURE you guys can tie that.

     
    Yea, sure. But it's not the exact fly were trying to figure out.
    I'm still trying to figure out the little red feathers.
    I'm thinking polar fiber or craft fur for the outer veil/body. That would bulk up the head but not sure if it would flare well for the tail.
    Inner body could be pearl estaz.

    Gone Fishing
    #23
    indsguiz
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/26 13:25:54 (permalink)
    Dano,
         If pearl estaz looks like tiny, christmas garland, then probably yep!  I'll try to describe it again in slow motion.  First he tied some long silver/black fur facing forward over the top of the eye.  Then he flipped the fly over and tied some yellow/cream fur forward on the bottom.  (If I had to guess I'd say squirrel tail/fox on the top and doe tail on the bottom.  Then he wrapped a little bit of metal around the ties of the fur and about 1/3 of the way down the hook.  Then he wrapped the sparkly tinsel around the hook starting at the head and geing thinner as he went back,  Then he tied in the little red feathers,  (He said they were road kill cardinal.)  And then the "eye" feathers.  Then he gathered all the hair and pushed it  back and tied it back by the bend of the hook but he left enought streaming out behind the tie to trim a tail.  He also pulled the long hair a little tight to make the fly minnow shaped.  Then he picked out the red feathers and the eye feathers so they stuck out through the fur, and that was it.   The little things looked like a silver minnow going through the water.   This is turning out to be harder that I thought.  I actually figured somebody would chime in and say:  "Oh, that's a Howards' Funky Dreadnaught"  and we'd be done with it.  I'm going to scour some fly references on line to see if I can find it.

    Illegitimis Non carborundum
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    jlh42581
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/26 15:38:10 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: dano

    ORIGINAL: jlh42581

    Guys,
    That streamer doesnt look to be anything more then some bucktail, a colored grizzly hackle and some dumbell eyes. Im SURE you guys can tie that.


    Yea, sure. But it's not the exact fly were trying to figure out.
    I'm still trying to figure out the little red feathers.
    I'm thinking polar fiber or craft fur for the outer veil/body. That would bulk up the head but not sure if it would flare well for the tail.
    Inner body could be pearl estaz.


    If you used polar fiber then combed it you would get that effect. Although im inclined to belive a full feather would make a better tail... then again fish do compress the tail.
    #25
    racinray
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/26 19:57:15 (permalink)
    .
    post edited by racinray - 2007/08/26 20:03:46

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    la Fish Hog
    #26
    indsguiz
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/26 20:16:54 (permalink)
    Ray,
       Thats getting closer, or should I say clouser.  LOL  But I am beginning to think it is a home brewed fly that the guy made up that just happens to work better than any streamer I have ever used.   It has a thick torpedo shaped head, the eyes are feather pieces and the tail is tied.  I'm ready to give up.  Wish I had the manual dexterity to tie,  that and feeling in my fingers.
     
    Ray, are you coming up for the One Fly?
    post edited by indsguiz - 2007/08/26 20:17:52

    Illegitimis Non carborundum
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    racinray
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/26 20:45:11 (permalink)
    Indi,this one has glued on eyes figured it might be a little closer,starting tying these last year for smallie fishing..Wish I could make it maybe might be a late entry if I'm free that day....As far as salmon fishing on the other forum it really isn't that bad up there ,just do what you normaly do for steel but on a little bit heavier scale and you will get bit  no problem and no hassles from anyone on your technique.Ray

    la Fish Hog
    #28
    indsguiz
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    RE: Can anybody tie this fly? 2007/08/26 22:59:57 (permalink)
    Ray,
         Thanks lots.   Really want to get back up to the Salmon before I get too worn out.  It's ben like 25 (+) years.  I always used to fish with 7wt rods and I had success but now everyone tells me to go to 9wt.  Where (generally would you suggest?  Mouth, 1st 5 miles or way upstream before the dam?   See; general.  I'll hold youa spot and some dogs.  BTW  I looked at umpquah feather mercahnts on line catalogue and the closest thing I found was a Janssens Minnow, which looks like a hard bait but has the correct shape, coloring and tail shape.

    Illegitimis Non carborundum
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