steelhead fly reels

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rapala11
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2009/05/27 12:44:34 (permalink)

steelhead fly reels

how necessary is it to have a large arbor reel?  can a conventional reel work?  do any of yuns (my picksburg talk) use regular (?) reels?

Joined: 10/8/2003


#1

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    Cold
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    RE: steelhead fly reels 2009/05/27 13:06:33 (permalink)
    I caught my first steelhead on the graphite reel that came with my starter kit.

    Would I want to do it again? No.

    Was the reel ever the same again? No.

    Did it bring the fish to hand? Yes.



    Hell of a fun battle, especially once he had the teeth on the drag worn off and it was basically a free spool! 5+ minute fight (clock time, not just what it seemed like), with the reel singing, my palm burning, and the rod ferrules (on the 5 weight kit rod) creaking the whole time!
    #2
    Loomis
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    RE: steelhead fly reels 2009/05/27 14:24:21 (permalink)
    So, you're considering getting a large-arbor reel,  But you hesitate, also having heard that all a large-arbor does is reduce backing capacity. What do you do? To answer that, let's look at some of the characteristics of large-arbor reels. Rate of RetrieveRate of retrieve, the major selling point of a large-arbor reel, is a function of the diameter of the reel spool. Let's define a standard-arbor reel as one with a spool arbor or hub approximately 1 inch in diameter. On such a reel, if the spool has only a few wraps of backing on it, one revolution of a (non-multiplier) reel will retrieve little more than 3 inches of line. (Remember your high school geometry?) Conversely, let's say a large-arbor's diameter has been increased to 2 inches. With this one change in the reel, you're able to crank in line at almost 6.5 inches per revolution with a similarly almost empty spool. Twice as much is 100 percent more line - on every crank! During a fight, the rate of retrieve becomes a function of the diameter of the portion of the spool filled with backing and line. Since the effective radius of the spool increases or decreases as the line comes in or goes out, the rate of retrieve increases or decreases as well. Increasing the arbor diameter only will do nothing to change the rate of retrieve with a full spool since the overall spool diameter hasn't increased. Instead, it will serve only to decrease the usable capacity of the reel. If, however, we increase the arbor of a reel and the overall spool diameter, we will increase the retrieval rate at both near-full and near-empty spool situations without losing capacity. Well-designed large-arbor reels, with both larger arbors and overall diameters, both increase the rate of line retrieval and retain sufficient backing capacity. The change in effective diameter and rate of retrieve is more than a two-dimensional problem, however. Since fly lines and backing occupy space, we're really dealing with a three-dimensional issue. This third variable, the width of the spool, affects rate of retrieve as well. Harking back to that geometry book, realize that a reel spool is simply a short cylinder turned on its edge, with a second cylinder, the hub or arbor, inside the first. Think of a doughnut. The hole is equivalent to the reel hub (arbor), and the edge of the doughnut is the outer edge of the spool. The actual edible part is equivalent to the useable space on the reel spool, or volume. The amount  can vary by changing any of three dimensions. If we increase only the hole or arbor diameter, we have less. If we increase the outer diameter, we have a larger doughnut and thus more. Finally, if we increase the width, we have a fatter doughnut, and thus more. Obviously, the dimensions of each can be varied simultaneously to achieve a reel maker's specific requirements. Large-arbor reels have a related benefit that's not talked about much, and that's cranking speed - how fast you can actually turn the reel handle. This is a two-part story. First, you can turn your hand in smaller circles faster than in larger circles, since you're "covering less ground" - you simply don't have to move your hand as far. Thus, while a smaller-diameter reel may not retrieve as much line per revolution, if we can crank in line at higher rpm, we're narrowing the presumed advantage of large-arbor reels. True, but - and here's the second part - turning your hand in those little, fast circles is considerably more tiring than turning them in slightly larger, albeit slower, circles. So when retrieving copious quantities of string, the large-arbor reel is a definite advantage. At least that's been my experience. There is a middle ground that some large-arbor-reel makers have taken, and it perhaps represents the ultimate compromise. On these, the handle has been moved inward slightly toward the spool center. The angler then has a slightly smaller cranking radius, not so small as to tire out the hand, but not so large as to necessitate lazy, slow circles either. Drag Consistency and ControlThis time, get out your physics book. Remember that the longer a lever, the easier it is to lift a load? Conversely, the shorter the lever arm, the more effort that's needed to lift a similar load. Drag pressure is a similar linear function. Say we have a large-arbor reel with a 5-inch diameter, and a standard-arbor reel with similar capacity (and similar width) with a 3-inch diameter. If each has enough line/backing removed to reduce the filled spool diameter by 2 inches, the large-arbor reel diameter will go from 5 inches to 3 inches, a 40-percent decrease. The standard reel diameter will go from 3 inches to 1 inch, for a significantly greater decrease of 66 percent. The fish, initially pulling 3 pounds of drag off each reel, will now be pulling against approximately 5 pounds of drag off the large-arbor reel, and a whopping 9 pounds against the standard-arbor reel. In addition to maintaining a more consistent drag pressure, large-arbor/large-diameter reels offer better fighting control simply because the spool is turning more slowly than a standard-arbor reel with similar capacity and diameter. The angler is better able to palm a slower-turning reel that, combined with the more consistent drag pressure, improves the chance of landing a fish. Line "Memory"Line memory, all too apparent when line is first stripped off the reel onto the boat deck coiled like a kid's Slinky, is a nuisance. The increased diameter of a large-arbor reel does reduce the coiling effect, or at least the coils are larger in diameter. But with today's fly lines - assuming they're matched to their intended climate - it usually only takes one good stretch to remove the coils. Reducing line memory ranks as a real, but minor, benefit in my opinion.  To gain maximum retrieval, get the largest arbor, largest outside-diameter reel you can find that provides the desired line/backing capacity. But - don't forget that larger is heavier. Unless you're built like Popeye, you don't want a 16-ounce reel "balancing" your 8-weight rod. Picking the right large-arbor requires that you select the best "balance" of retrieve rate, capacity, weight and other important reel features. Bigger is better, if chosen wisely.
    #3
    Plum Bob
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    RE: steelhead fly reels 2009/05/27 17:39:11 (permalink)
    Fly reels for steelhead - Erie:
     
    Assuming you want the reel for a single hand 9 to 10 ft 7 or 8 wt rod I would recommend the following:
     
    1.  Lamson litespeed 3 - 3.75" spool diameter, around 6 oz, light weight with a smooth, sealed drag.  $339  Used this reel for the first time this spring, great reel.
     
    2.  Loomis Eastfork 7-8, 3.7" spool diameter, 5.7 oz, $195.  Used this reel last fall/winter and found it to be smooth and dependable with a good drag.  Fish USA carries this reel.
     
    3.  Lamson Konic - 3.7" spool diameter, $139
     
    4.  Ross CLA - C4, 3.75" spool diameter, 7.6 oz, $230.  Fish USA carries this reel.
     
    I have never used the Lamson Konic or Ross CLA but recommend them because I have heard nothing but good reports from experienced Erie steelhead fishermen regarding these reels.
     
    You can get a good, dependable erie sthd reel for less than $200.  IMO a reel diameter around 3.75" is ideal for fast line retrieve.  Reel weight of 6 to 8 oz balances well with most 7 or 8 wt rods.  All of these reels hold plenty of backing.
    #4
    indsguiz
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    RE: steelhead fly reels 2009/05/27 22:57:25 (permalink)
    Rap,   Don't sweat it!  Any appropriately sized reel for the rod you are using will be enough for the species of fish you are attempting.  A 3 wt reel on a 9 wt rod is inappropriate.   But a reel set up for 8-9 wt line will (should) have all the necessary features.  Heck, I still fish for steel with Medalists and 1930's South Bend Automatics and I still land fish.

    Illegitimis Non carborundum
    #5
    rapala11
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    RE: steelhead fly reels 2009/05/27 23:49:58 (permalink)
    jack, you came the closest.  thanks.  i will only fish for steelhead with a flyrod once or twice a year.  i have a new 7wt, but still don't have the reel i want.  i saw some english made orvis battenkills on ebay selling for about 50 bucks.  these are not large or even mid arbor reels.  i was hoping that with enough backing,  they would be usable.  i have seen pics on here with guys using regular reels.  i believe mikastorm does.  just wanted to get off as cheaply as possible, but still have a decent reel. 

    Joined: 10/8/2003


    #6
    thedrake
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    RE: steelhead fly reels 2009/05/28 00:18:48 (permalink)
    You dont need a large arbor reel for steelbows. Any fly reel with a decent drag will do.
    #7
    tank7791
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    RE: steelhead fly reels 2009/05/28 07:05:51 (permalink)
    I agree with thedrake, I've used a mid arbor reel for years and have had no problem with landing steel

    Tight lines and happy days

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    duncsdad
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    RE: steelhead fly reels 2009/05/28 08:22:20 (permalink)
    Buy the Orvis reel if it is the right size.  They are simple and don't break.
     
    Realistically, with the crowds on the tribs, if a fish gets into the backing, you are going to get drummed out of the hole in short order.

    Duncsdad

    Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion
    #9
    SilverKype
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    RE: steelhead fly reels 2009/05/28 08:48:46 (permalink)
    LA's are necessary with hot fish when they have room to run.  Hot fish don't stay hot long and Erie don't allow much room to run.

    My reports and advice are for everyone to enjoy, not just the paying customers.
    #10
    davef
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    RE: steelhead fly reels 2009/05/28 08:54:17 (permalink)
    Rich: I used a south bend finalist for about 6 years with no problems. Probably can find it or a medalist on ebay for a decent price.
    #11
    rapala11
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    RE: steelhead fly reels 2009/05/28 11:25:56 (permalink)
    man, you guys are okay.  i appreciate all the help, again.
     
    dave, still looking, seriously.  have no idea what happened to that stamp.  someday....

    Joined: 10/8/2003


    #12
    dano
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    RE: steelhead fly reels 2009/05/29 09:26:43 (permalink)
    Rap,
    I used to use an old Battenkill. It worked fine except the drag would slip and become inconsistent if the reel got dunked and on an occasional hard charging silverside.
    It didn't take long for me to wear out the spool bushing. You really need to keep that bushing and spindle clean and lightly oiled because of the small diameter spindle= high RPM=heat. Otherwise, the reel will develop a wobble.
    Granted, I fished the tribs quite often and put hundreds of steelhead on it and later purchased a large arbor. But if you are only going to fish steelhead a couple of times a year, I'd recommend it. 
    Also, if you do wear out the spool, Orvis can repair it for a minimal charge.
    #13
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