Ethics on a dead fish out of season

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spoonchucker
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/27 11:25:51 (permalink)
The law, and ethics can not be a direct parallel. As the law tends to be a rigid line, while the subjectiveness of ethics creates peaks and valleys. But they do tend to follow the same line. The law also tends ( not always ), to run along the low end of ethical behavoir. Thus while one CAN act ethically, AND illegally, it is very rare. While it is quite common to act legally, yet un-ethically. Hence many professional bodies, or organizations create standards of ethics beyond the law. The test comes when one's personal "ethics", come into conflict with the law, or personal need.
 
Let's take the example of the 15 yr old driving to the hospital. One could make the arguement that he is acting ethically, yet illegally. This might be true, if he has a basic knowledge of operating the vehicle, and the rules of the road. Otherwise he could be putting himself, the victim, and others at serious risk. Both illegal, and un-ethical IMO.
 
Another example. You are in serious financial distress, and your family is in need ( actually suffering ). Luck has it that you find a large sum of money on the street corner. Now you have the conflict between your ethical responsibilty to your family, and the ethical, and legal obligation to turn it in. What do you do?
 
It comes down to, ( What price are you willing to pay, to maintain YOUR personal ethics? ). In the case of the out of season fish. If you feel "ethically" obligated to keep the fish, and "not waste it". Are you willing to pay the ensuing fine, to uphold that ethic?

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside


The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL
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RhnstnCowboy
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/27 11:31:23 (permalink)
You're right Spoon, the ethical thing to do is to let the old man die. The heinous crime of operating a vehicle underage outweighs saving a dying parent. We are a nation of laws, after all. In all cases, adherence to the law is the most important thing.

"Part of being a Leftist is the smug conviction that you and people like you are smart, while everyone else is stupid and/or evil"
- T. Fleming
#32
spoonchucker
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/27 11:35:31 (permalink)
And if he has no clue, causes an accident, and kills three others? How was his action ethical? Did you read the WHOLE paragraph?
 
"This might be true, if he has a basic knowledge of operating the vehicle, and the rules of the road."

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside


The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL
#33
Cold
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/27 11:49:13 (permalink)
What 15 year old has never seen a car being driven? What 15 year old doesnt have a basic understanding of a steering wheel, gas and brake pedals, and "Park" "Reverse" and "Drive". Even if they dont have a good grasp of it...what should they do? Sorry, I'd like to take you to get help, but I've never driven before, so I guess we'll just have to sit here till you die?

In another remarkable occurrence, RC and I agree again!

In the fish situation, though, spoon sums it up best here:

Are you willing to pay the ensuing fine, to uphold that ethic?


That's all it boils down to.
#34
Mr.Slickfish
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/27 12:08:31 (permalink)
This is hilarious....

What would Jesus do?
post edited by Mr.Slickfish - 2009/05/27 12:11:38

I don't always snag fish, but when I do...
I choose Little Cleos

I'm the best looking smartest snagging poacher alive...
#35
RhnstnCowboy
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/27 12:11:25 (permalink)
Letting someone die because of the very small chance that you could wreck and cause an accident, etc. Spoon, that is just absurd. I hope you are never in that position. An experienced, licensed driver could wreck, as well. Maybe ambulances shouldn't exceed the speed limit, run red lights, drive on the wrong side of the road? I would trust a wet-behind-the-ears 15 year old driver in a critical situation like that over most of the senior citizens I see driving.

A little more thinking and a little less blind adherence might serve you well...
post edited by RhnstnCowboy - 2009/05/27 12:20:12

"Part of being a Leftist is the smug conviction that you and people like you are smart, while everyone else is stupid and/or evil"
- T. Fleming
#36
spoonchucker
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/27 12:27:00 (permalink)
"very small chance" ?
 
We are talking about someone who has never driven, in distress, adreneline running, and likely focussed more on the oldman than his "driving". Seasoned drivers commonly make critical errors in stressful, or emergencey situations.
 
Some may be capable of doing so with limited risk, others not. It is not a one size fits all scenario, and a difficult choice. Also does the 15 yr old have the judgement to drive only to the point where he can signal another vehicle, or to the first occupied house/building. Or does he try to continue the whole way to the hospital?

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside


The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL
#37
spoonchucker
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/27 12:31:24 (permalink)
"Maybe ambulances shouldn't exceed the speed limit, run red lights, drive on the wrong side of the road?"
 
Actually, they can't legally. Blast through a red light in an ambulance, and cause an accident, YOU are liable. At least partially.

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside


The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL
#38
RhnstnCowboy
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/27 12:32:48 (permalink)
Its a hypothetical situation with no limits on interpretation, so arguing it further makes no sense. The bottom line is that I hope a 15 year old in that situation would have the good sense and survival insticts to do everything within his power to save his old man.

"Part of being a Leftist is the smug conviction that you and people like you are smart, while everyone else is stupid and/or evil"
- T. Fleming
#39
D-nymph
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/27 13:19:02 (permalink)
Is Sportsman's Warehouse still open?
 
 
#40
Skip16503
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/27 13:19:38 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: D-nymph

Is Sportsman's Warehouse still open?




I heard a rumor they were closing but you know how rumors get started

 



#41
Cold
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/27 13:21:54 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: D-nymph

Is Sportsman's Warehouse still open?




Message board WIN.
#42
hiclassHilbilly
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/27 22:18:18 (permalink)
"A little more thinking and a little less blind adherence might serve you well... "
 
AMEN Cowboy....  I only obey the laws that are logical and overlook the ones that have no bearing on anyone, when no one else is around.

For example:  You come to an intersection and you can see atleast a quarter mile in every direction and it is all farm fields around.  Do you stop at the stop sign if there is no one in sight?

Me:  of course not!!!  Be kind to mother earth and don't use up those brake pads and rotors.  It also saves a little gas by not slowing down.  it is totally logical... haha

"A Homewood man led police on an hourlong car chase that ended with a crash injuring three officers.

"The car was driving itself," Wright said. "The car has a GPS. It's a Lincoln Navigator. They drive themselves. I wasn't running nowhere."
#43
duncsdad
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/28 15:32:00 (permalink)
Since this thread has stepped slightly away from the fish out of season thing, let me ask this one...
 
A couple of years ago during rifle deer season in PA, I came across a fairly heavy blood trail in the snow quickly melting snow.  There was only one set of tracks, so the deer bleeding was the only deer making the trail.
 
I followed it for a few hundred yards, but never caught up to the deer.  I gave it time, but it never laid down for long enough to stiffen up.
 
But let's say I did see the deer.  It is clearly the wounded deer and it is clearly wounded badly -- leg hanging, entrails exposed, blood coming from a body hit, etc.  It will die on its own sometime.
 
And let's further say that I have already harvested and used my tag for that gender of deer (I still have a tag for the other gender -- I am still legally hunting after all).
 
The nearest hunter in my party that would (make that may, since I have no idea what they may or may not have shot since I have left them to make this little push) have an appropriate unfilled tag is a mile or more in the opposite direction from which the deer is heading.  There is no easy road access to circle around and "cut the deer off" from where it is going.  In another couple of hundred yards it will be where there is no access at all.  With the melting snow and the impending rain the trail will soon be gone.
 
Do you
 
A) shoot the deer even though you don't have the correct tag to end its suffering and then go get someone from your hunting party to tag it
 
B) let the deer go knowing it will die a slow death
 
C) leave the deer to get someone from your hunting party knowing that it is very likely you won't find it when you return a considerable time later?

Duncsdad

Everything I say can be fully substantiated by my own opinion
#44
JMZ82
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/28 16:09:38 (permalink)
My decision could be much different in a slightly different situation, but say I somehow knew it would die for sure, and that no one would have a chance at shooting it other than me.  I would shoot it, after that taking it would depend on if it was in good enough shape to be usable.  Like a few other posters mentioned this would bother me but given the situation I think would be the best.

It most situations where I hunt I would leave it go,  their arn't guys everywhere but in enough places to give it a chance at being taken down.  Same goes if a deer was hit on the road, I would want to put it out of its misery and leave it or tell someone to come get it.
#45
hiclassHilbilly
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/28 18:22:38 (permalink)
Duncdad, 
 
The answer to that one is easy.  Shoot the dear to be mercifull, then shoot the top of its head off so you cant see if it was a buck or doe, and gut the bugger.  Then get it the heck outta the woods.
 
haha

"A Homewood man led police on an hourlong car chase that ended with a crash injuring three officers.

"The car was driving itself," Wright said. "The car has a GPS. It's a Lincoln Navigator. They drive themselves. I wasn't running nowhere."
#46
washdog
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/28 21:34:09 (permalink)
I  saw a doe on my farm during the rifle season some years back. Her whole lower jaw was blown off, just a tongue hangin downward. She stood there and made no attempt to run as i approached. The decision was clear, the ethical thing for me was to shoot which I did, and stop the deer from suffering. I didn't even consider the law. I took the deer back to my barn and called the local game warden, I explained the situation and he thanked me and told me what I did was the right thing to do and issued me a doe tag for the deer.
 
Now, Back to the original post. If an angler has one fish thats out of season, not a stringer full and is keeping it because it died and couldn't be released, and is approached by an officer, I would like to think and believe that the Officer would use his experience and judgement after hearing the reasoning behind keeping the fish, as did the Game Warden with my deer and would not give a citation, and either take or allow the angler to keep the one fish. The reality though is most would probably issue a citation for the money aspect.
#47
albud1962
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RE: Ethics on a dead fish out of season 2009/05/29 06:04:03 (permalink)
Bottom line is everyone is entitled to their day in court.  In many instances a judge or jury may interpret the law to the benefit of the defendant based on the evidence presented by the state.  So when you keep that extra trout on the stringer, make sure you have Perry Mason on retainer.
#48
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