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our energy program - 7/22/2008 1:32:03 AM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 789
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		funny,at work we just got a letter about our sells, BREAKDOWN::: RUSSIAN OIL,purchased 7,200 miles of oil drilling pipe for deep wells,,2,800 miles of natural gas well pipe,,,,, china oil co.purchased 6,700 miles of deep well oil pipe,(going to the coast of cuba),, 2,900 miles of natural gas well pipe ,,  belgium oil, 1,700 miles of deep well oil pipe,1,100 miles of natural gas well pipe,, U.S. OIL ,, 700 miles of deep well oil pipe, 200 miles of nat.gas well pipe, ,,, why are we so far behind the times, the rest of the world is flying by while we sit in washington,debating what we are going to do. this my friends is why you pay 4.00/gal at the pump

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH
Post #: 1
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 2:24:22 AM   
DanesDad

 

Posts: 1831
Joined: 3/21/2005
Status: offline 		We should be investing more in other energy technologies (hydrogen fuel cells for cars, nuclear, solar and wind energy for electricity generation) as well as drilling more and deeper.

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 2
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 4:10:12 AM   
track2514


Posts: 1802
Joined: 9/26/2003
Status: offline 		Rock

Your stats don't tell the whole story. Currently, in Russia gas is $3.97 (american dollars) and in China gas is $3.10 (american dollars). Gas is relatively cheap in the U.S. when compared to many other countries. According to CNN, out of 155 major countries U.S. gas is the 108th most expensive. For the most part the only countries that have cheaper gas are the major oil producing countries. The problem is not the price of gas, the problem is that we were unprepared for the increase. In the United Kingdom gas is $8.38 (american dollars) per gallon and it is not a big deal for them since they are prepared for it. In the U.S. we have moved to far suburbs, everyone has multiple gas guzzlers, we have empty carpool lanes, we fly everywhere, heat our huge houses, etc. Many other countries are ahead of us in terms of energy efficiency and technology. Drilling for oil is not the answer, we need to stop using so much oil and develop alternative energy.


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If its brown flush it down. Here we go Steelers...

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Post #: 3
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 4:10:49 AM   
track2514


Posts: 1802
Joined: 9/26/2003
Status: offline 		I almost forgot here is an interesting article: http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/01/news/international/usgas_price/?postversion=2008050109


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If its brown flush it down. Here we go Steelers...

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Post #: 4
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 6:03:23 AM   
jon_e_si

 

Posts: 302
Joined: 5/4/2006
Status: offline 		Repeat: www.PickensPlan.com
 

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Post #: 5
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 11:25:17 AM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 789
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		i agree,we should go full throttle into other energy technology,but until we get there ,we need to use the resources available,now,,, i do think we in this nation are conserving,see ,market drives that thought,not govt mandates, if you have a suv that gets 10 mi./gal,you dont drive as much, simple thinking,,,, track, i read that and see prices around the world, so when did it come that we should live like other countries, no foreign activity,should ever dictate how we live our life,, i dont feel we should pay 8.00/gal cause somebody else does,, i dont complain about 4.00/gal,dont like it ,but still cheaper than most, 

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 6
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 11:41:24 AM   
Porktown


Posts: 2295
Joined: 9/4/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ROCKHARD

i dont complain about 4.00/gal 


Now that's funnier than Beerman's Browns prediction!!!

Seems to me, you have a new thread complaining about the price of gas, drilling, how democrats tax too much and are responsible for every thing wrong in this country.  But yet you are an independant.  Maybe independant of which republican you support?

I really think Jonesi's post sums it up.  Too much foriegn investment in our economy.  With a weak dollar, it is getting worse and worse. 

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 7
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 11:42:41 AM   
Carpet Bagger

 

Posts: 2025
Joined: 4/18/2001
From: Greenville, PA
Status: offline 		The Electric Car will be the answer.  It didnt make much sense when gas was a dollar a gallon, but these days it does.  Its not even about being a liberal hippy and wanting to save the environment anymore, its about pure economics and your own budget.  Electricity is renewable through solar, wind, water, and other GREEN forms of technology that we can expand on (i cant believe i said green).  We could be taking all the money from the Iraq war and putting it towards advancement in our technology to create some froms of fuel and transportation that would take our interest out of the middle east and make us more energy independent as a country.

If you cut the demand for gasoline, the price will fall dramatically...If modern technology can find a way to supply the everyday driver with an electric vehicle that can get 200-300miles on a charge and can go 70mph I see no reason why consumers wouldnt conform to it when filling it up is as easy as plugging it in and falling asleep...Running a battery charger all night cant cost more than a tank of gas...not to mention I would rather pay an American energy company than OPEC.

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CB

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Post #: 8
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 12:01:05 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 789
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		no pork, i dont complain about 4.00/gal,,my posts are about why YOU are paying it, if you dont like paying it ,its the dems holding that price there,,,yes they are a tax and spend party,same as bush a big spender but without the tax increase,,, true CB, when that technology is widely available,but its not, japan is sending like 200 cars of the future to calif. for a lease program, reason only for a lease and only 200 ,is the fact to build 1 of these cars cost nearly 1million /dollars,, not quite affordable yet, 

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Post #: 9
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 1:22:06 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2211
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		t boone has some great ideas (jon e, didn't read your links but i am sure that is what you posted).  oil man gone good, eh?

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Post #: 10
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 2:03:04 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 789
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		yea t.boone makes sense to a point,the money we spend overseas for oil is outrages,what 700 billion/yr,, we could use that here, on our own resources, also to find alternatives, but again ,we need oil now,here, not wait til something comes along,, 

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 11
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 2:21:19 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5662
Status: offline 		The oil companies already HAVE access to enough to double US output. Republicans blocked a measure requiring them to drill, or lose the leases.


From the house commitee on natural resources

"In the last four years, the Bureau of Land Management has issued 28,776 permits to drill on public land; yet, in that same time, 18,954 wells were actually drilled. That means that companies have stockpiled nearly 10,000 extra permits to drill that they are not using to increase domestic production.

Proponents of drilling in Alaska are most often focused on a 1.5 million acre area in the ... Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR).

However, in addition to ANWR, there are another nearly 91 million acres currently open to leasing in the Arctic region of Alaska, including onshore and offshore lands. Oil and gas companies have leased only 11.8 million of the 91 million acres.
Within the National Petroleum Reserve-Alaska (NPR-A), oil companies have leased 3 million acres of 22.6 million acres available to lease. No production has occurred on any of those lands and industry has drilled only 25 exploratory wells there since 2000."

"The 68 million acres of leased, inactive federal land could produce an additional 4.8 million barrels of oil and 44.7 billion cubic feet of natural gas each day. — That would nearly double total U.S. oil production, and increase natural gas production by 75%. — 4.8 million barrels of oil equals more than six times the estimated peak production from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. — Development of and production from the 68 million acres currently under lease but not in production would cut US imports of oil by one-third."

"But, on the other hand, saying oil companies don't invest in new refineries is just as much a red herring; it is obviously more efficient to expand existing refineries than to build new ones since there are already roads going in to those and pipes going out of them:
"Since 1985, U.S. refining capacity has increased by 20 percent even though there are 57 fewer refineries. " "


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Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

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Post #: 12
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 4:31:56 PM   
Porktown


Posts: 2295
Joined: 9/4/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spoonchucker




From the house commitee on natural resources


Hippy liberal tree huggers. 

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 13
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 4:51:19 PM   
Carpet Bagger

 

Posts: 2025
Joined: 4/18/2001
From: Greenville, PA
Status: offline 		A million dollars for an electric car???  We are building dual power hybrid vehicles now that arent that expensive...Where do you get this information???

its just like any form of technology...the first steps are always the most expensive...

Look at computers to powersaws...as things become more common and more used the cost of production dwindles...

< Message edited by Carpet Bagger -- 7/22/2008 4:52:21 PM >

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CB

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Post #: 14
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 4:54:03 PM   
Carpet Bagger

 

Posts: 2025
Joined: 4/18/2001
From: Greenville, PA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spoonchucker

The oil companies already HAVE access to enough to double US output. Republicans blocked a measure requiring them to drill, or lose the leases.



From the house commitee on natural resources

"In the last four years, the Bureau of Land Management has issued 28,776 permits to drill on public land; yet, in that same time, 18,954 wells were actually drilled. That means that companies have stockpiled nearly 10,000 extra permits to drill that they are not using to increase domestic production.

Proponents of drilling in Alaska are most often focused on a 1.5 million acre area in the ... Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR).


However, in addition to ANWR, there are another nearly 91 million acres currently open to leasing in the Arctic region of Alaska, including onshore and offshore lands. Oil and gas companies have leased only 11.8 million of the 91 million acres.
Within the National Petroleum Reserve-Alaska (NPR-A), oil companies have leased 3 million acres of 22.6 million acres available to lease. No production has occurred on any of those lands and industry has drilled only 25 exploratory wells there since 2000."

"The 68 million acres of leased, inactive federal land could produce an additional 4.8 million barrels of oil and 44.7 billion cubic feet of natural gas each day. — That would nearly double total U.S. oil production, and increase natural gas production by 75%. — 4.8 million barrels of oil equals more than six times the estimated peak production from the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. — Development of and production from the 68 million acres currently under lease but not in production would cut US imports of oil by one-third."

"But, on the other hand, saying oil companies don't invest in new refineries is just as much a red herring; it is obviously more efficient to expand existing refineries than to build new ones since there are already roads going in to those and pipes going out of them:
"Since 1985, U.S. refining capacity has increased by 20 percent even though there are 57 fewer refineries. " "




Spoon you are right the oil companies have enough places to drill more wells for oil.. All bush is looking to do is get them in more control of more area....It has nothing to do with our gas prices as it does for oil companies to take more control of more land and sea.

_____________________________

CB

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Post #: 15
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 4:54:28 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 789
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		spoon that article forgot to mention the costs to drill these areas,the regs that go with them permits, the difficulty in drilling deep in these areas, the costs of extracting from these areas, most older refineries dont have the capacity or capability of taking on higher production levels,need new high tech refineries to conform to enviro standards,there are 2 sides to this story

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Post #: 16
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 4:59:55 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 789
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		Supporting views A report from the United States Department of Energy expects the following impacts from the opening of ANWR to oil and gas development: [4] * reducing world oil prices,
* reducing the U.S. dependence on imported foreign oil,
* improving the U.S. balance of trade,
* extending the life of TAPS for oil, and
* increasing U.S. jobs.


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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 17
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 5:20:18 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 789
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		    Earnings     The oil and natural gas industry is one of the world's largest industries. Its revenues are large, as are the costs of providing consumers with the energy they need. Among those costs are finding and producing oil and natural gas, refining, distributing and marketing those refined products. The energy Americans consume today is brought to us by investments made years or even decades ago. Today's oil and natural gas industry earnings are invested in new technology, new production and environment and product quality improvements to meet tomorrow's energy needs. The industry's earnings are very much in line with other industries, and often they are lower. See below for more information. Putting Earnings into Perspective
It may surprise you to find out our industry’s earnings are typically in line with other industries, and are often lower.  From just who owns “big oil” to how we invest what we earn, we’ve prepared this short paper, based on well-documented data, to help you better understand the oil and natural gas industry’s earnings by putting them into perspective.

Investment and Other Uses of Cash Flow by the Oil Industry
Today's oil and natural gas industry earnings are invested in new technology, new production and environment and product quality improvements to meet tomorrow's energy needs. This new Ernst & Young study shows the five major oil companies had $765 billion of new investment between 1992 and 2006, compared to net income of $662 billion during the same period. The industry overall, which includes 57 of the largest U.S. oil and natural gas companies, had new investments of $1.25 trillion over the same period, compared to net income of $900 billion and cash flows of $1.77 trillion. High oil and gas prices in recent years increased oil and natural gas companies’ cash flows from operations and net income, which facilitated record levels of investment spending. Download the complete report below (Published May 2007) .  
S
New study finds ownership of America’s oil and natural gas companies “broadly middle class”
WASHINGTON – Who owns ‘Big Oil?’ It’s not who you think. As Congress debates national energy policy, a new study finds that ownership of oil and natural gas company shares is made up of a broad cross section of Americans. “This study disproves the popular misconception that ‘Big Oil’ is owned by a small group of industry insiders. In reality, across the oil and natural gas industry only 1.5 percent of shares of public companies are owned by company executives,” said study author Robert J. Shapiro, undersecretary of commerce for economic affairs under President Bill Clinton. “The data show that ownership of industry shares is broadly middle class, with the majority of industry shares held by institutional investors, often on behalf of millions of Americans through mutual funds, pension funds and individual retirement accounts.”
Earnings
The earnings of our nation's oil and gas industry are important to all of us. The energy we use today is brought to us by investments these companies made over decades of growth, throughout good and bad economic times and in spite of periodic threats to world stability.
U.S. Oil and Gas Industry Investments in Emerging Energy Technologies
To help meet projected U.S. energy demand growth of 34% in the next two decades and to diversify the U.S. energy portfolio, U.S. oil and gas companies invested $98 billion from 2000 through 2005 on emerging energy technologies in the North American market. This expenditure is 73% of the estimated total of $135 billion spent by U.S. companies and the Federal government. Of the industry investments, $86 billion (or 88% of the $98 billion total) were directed toward frontier hydrocarbons. The ability of major oil companies to upgrade inferior grades of oil (tar and oil sands, heavy oil) into refinery feedstock, and to turn waste and residue hydrocarbons (gasification including hydrogen production) into high-value products, is a natural extension of the industry’s expertise.  

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 18
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 5:21:11 PM   
Carpet Bagger

 

Posts: 2025
Joined: 4/18/2001
From: Greenville, PA
Status: offline 		This guy supports big business and opec and complains about not having 2 nickles to rub together.......odd



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CB

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Post #: 19
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 5:22:40 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 789
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		who supports big business

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 20
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 6:14:57 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5662
Status: offline 		"spoon that article forgot to mention the costs to drill these areas,the regs that go with them permits, the difficulty in drilling deep in these areas, the costs of extracting from these areas"

But drilling in ANWR wouldn't have ANY costs.  

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Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

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Post #: 21
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 6:22:19 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5662
Status: offline 		HOUSTON - As giant oil companies like Exxon Mobil and ConocoPhillips get set to report what will probably be another round of eye-popping quarterly profits, just where is all that money going?
The companies insist they're trying to find new oil that might help bring down gas prices, but the money they spend on exploration is nothing compared with what they spend on stock buybacks and dividends.
It's good news for shareholders, including mutual funds and retirement plans for millions of Americans, but no help to drivers making drastic cutbacks to offset the high cost of fuel.

Story continues below ↓




The five biggest international oil companies plowed about 55 percent of the cash they made from their businesses into stock buybacks and dividends last year, up from 30 percent in 2000 and just 1 percent in 1993, according to Rice University's James A. Baker III Institute for Public Policy.
The percentage they spend to find new deposits of fossil fuels has remained flat for years, in the mid-single digits.
The issue has become more sensitive as lawmakers and Americans frustrated by high gas prices have expressed concern over gaudy reports of oil industry profits. ConocoPhillips is scheduled to kick off the latest round of Big Oil earnings reports Wednesday.
Oil prices are set on the open market, not by the oil industry. But that hasn't stopped public protests, a series of congressional grillings for top oil executives, and a failed attempt by lawmakers to slap Big Oil with a windfall profits tax.
In the first three months of this year, Exxon Mobil Corp., the world's biggest publicly traded oil company, shelled out $8.8 billion on stock buybacks alone, compared with $5.5 billion on exploration and other capital projects.
ConocoPhillips has already told investors that its stock buybacks for April to June of this year will come to about $2.5 billion — nine times what it spent on exploration.
Stock buybacks are common throughout corporate America, not just for Big Oil. They shrink the amount of stock on the open market, essentially increasing its value and giving individual shareholders a bigger stake in the company.
But some critics say Big Oil focuses too much on boosting stock prices, in an industry that sometimes ties executive pay to stock price.
And in focusing on buybacks and dividends over exploring for new oil, some critics say, oil companies jeopardize its already dwindling share of world supply.
"If you're not spending your money finding and developing new oil, then there's no new oil," said Amy Myers Jaffe, an energy expert at Rice University who's studied spending patterns of the major oil companies.
Investor-owned companies like Exxon Mobil and Chevron hold less than 10 percent of global oil and gas reserves, way down from past decades. And finding new oil has become harder and more expensive.
State-run oil companies, like those in Saudi Arabia and Venezuela, control about 80 percent of oil reserves — and at today's prices, it's not surprising they're keeping a tight grip on what they have. Scarce equipment and hard-to-find labor also pose problems.
No one questions that Big Oil is rolling in cash. The cash the biggest oil companies bring in from running their businesses, or operating cash flow, is four times what it was in the early 1990s.
"It becomes a management decision," said Howard Silverblatt, a senior index analyst at Standard & Poor's. "It's not like they're going to the board and saying, 'Well, I can do one or the other or the other.' The balance sheets are flush with cash."

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Post #: 22
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 6:44:43 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 789
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		spoon,that is a msnbc report,not very biased or nothing,, rice university,all liberal minded,not many university are not left thinking,,,notice a few things in that report,exxon and chevronhold LESS THAN 10%,IN OIL AND GAS  reserves,also stock buybacks are common in corp.america,NOT JUST BIG OIL...AND OIL PRICES ARE SET BY OPEN MARKET,NOT OIL COMPANIES,,, SO SPOON ,AGAIN, WHAT ARE YOUR POINTS, not allowed profit, wonder what the profit margin is by the pavers doing a 6 mile stretch of I-70, bet more than 8%,, home contracters,bet more than 8%,,, CB, YES THAT IS WHAT THAT REPORT SAID,i just tried to find it again, it cost 200 million for the development of these 200 hybrids, break it down,,,,cb,not making up story,,,i will post as soon as i find it,,,

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Post #: 23
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 6:44:59 PM   
jackq

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 3/31/2008
From: Altoona/Newville, PA.
Status: online 		Thanks Spoon,
That same article was in the Altoona paper today too and I was trying to figure out how to post it. Saved me alot of grief.

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 24
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 6:58:57 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 789
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		why is a big deal with the left,to make a profit, no profit,no product,plain and simple,, so you cap their profits,they make that cap in 4 months,do they shutdown the wells and say gotta wait 8 months before we get more oil to market, or should they give it away for nothing,, dont know anyone,retail,wholesale,construction,home builders that work for no profit,, this country is full of whiners when it comes to some have and some dont, thing is everyone here has that same oppertunity to have if you take that RISK,as the others have,,, i work with 700 people,and i bring up the question of how much corp america makes,very few,i mean very few can care less what the ceo of our company makes as long as they provide the jobs, most americans bitchin about it,even middle class,pay little or no tax at all when it is settled, its a liberal talking point when it comes to CLASS ENVY, 

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Post #: 25
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 7:05:45 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5662
Status: offline 		The point is, that they ( and YOU ) want to blame dems, liberals, and anyone else for stopping them from doing, what they DON'T intend to do anyway.

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

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GL&TC

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Post #: 26
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 7:34:15 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 789
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		spoon, here it is,did you readmy post above about who actually profits from big oil,,think it states MIDDLE CLASS, only 1.5 % of stock is owned by oil execs, majority is held by investors for millions of americans thru mutual funds ,pension funds,and ira's,,, yea alot of profit ,but also alot of expenses,,,, they do drill were it is feasible, our engineering dept is always trying to improve on our well drilling products,for deeper wells and hard rock bases where that oil is laying,, not as easy as drop a drill and go, lot of sure investigating before hand, that reason why lot of these leases are just held and not used, at later date ,probably,but technology to get it now,not quit there,,, i dont know how to keep explaining this, only what i know now,is what i comment on, dont want to argue on this spoon, yes every one hurting, but condemning a industry isnt helping either,, need for other forms of energy,yes definately, but gotta do with what we have now,,, when gas was cheap, no concern from nobody,how much money was being made,but now that it hits the pocketbook,its a major crime,,, to bad we didnt hold our free spending govt to those same standards 

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 27
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 7:46:30 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5662
Status: offline 		"not as easy as drop a drill and go"

Yet you seem determined that it WOULD be just that easy, if we opened up ANWR. This is the point I'm trying to make.

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 28
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 7:56:38 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5662
Status: offline 		,"it cost 200 million for the development of these 200 hybrids, break it down,,,,cb,not making up story,,,i will post as soon as i find it"

The 200 mil was for the developement, not actual production cost of the vehicle. 200mil / 200 cars IS 1 mil per, but once you have deeloped the technology, that cost is spread out over each vehicle produced. 2000 cars= $100,000 per ( plus actual production cost ). 20,000 cars = $1,000 per ( plus actual production cost ).

The lease, is 3yrs. at $600 per month. Here's the link:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25243581/

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 29
RE: our energy program - 7/22/2008 8:30:08 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 789
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		thanks spoon,that is the report, ive heard a few weeks back, it was from dif.source ,but that is it,,, what i am saying is this is no cheap technology to get these hybrids to market,, yrs away from becoming affordable to market

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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