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sour grapes? - 7/21/2008 9:45:53 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2585
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: online 		Giuliani: Obama trip highlights inexperiencePosted: 07:12 AM ET
From CNN's Steve Brusk and Tasha Diakides




Rudy Giuliani visited Yankee Stadium with John McCain on Sunday.NEW YORK (CNN) – Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani said Sunday Barack Obama’s overseas visit is only serving to highlight the candidate’s inexperience in world affairs.
The one-time Republican presidential candidate made the comments as he visited Yankee Stadium with presumptive GOP nominee John McCain.
On the field before the Yankees took on the Oakland A’s, Giuliani told reporters, “the fact that Barack Obama is now making his first tour, in essence, of the world is an indication that John McCain is the man with the experience. John doesn't have to go for the first or second time to these places. He has been going there for 20-30 years. He knows the world. He understands the world.”
Obama has previously visited Iraq and other countries overseas, but this was his first visit to Afghanistan.
Giuliani said, “Without any disrespect to the other side, he's just so far more experienced that I think America will elect him. I think the American people are going to take a look and say we have got to be very serious about this…we need a man that has experience and John McCain has that experience."
Criticizing Obama’s strategy on Iraq, the former mayor said, “I think if you look at Senator McCain's record on Iraq - you don't fail to elect him president. He was right about Iraq when almost everybody else was wrong. It has turned out that if we had caved in the way Barack Obama and the democrats wanted we would now have a defeat. America would have a defeat rather than a possible victo

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Post #: 1
RE: sour grapes? - 7/21/2008 9:46:57 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2585
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: online 		 It has turned out that if we had caved in the way Barack Obama and the democrats wanted we would now have a defeat. America would have a defeat rather than a possible victory

a victory over who or what???????????????

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 2
RE: sour grapes? - 7/21/2008 11:21:11 AM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		this war bashing is really outrages, i know as a fact, that if at this moment,the dems said lets stay in iraq,there would be jubilation by the press and total support by party insiders,, but since the right went into this war ,it is wrong,,,we hear war for oil,,,what an assanine remark,where is the oil, bushs war,funny how unanamous vote by both parties put us there,, personally i say pull our troops out and let them people massacre each other out of existance,,that is the right thing to do, we arent the baby sitters,we need to stop protecting the world,these people wanna live under dictators ,i say let them and let there lives be as they may,like here ,if you cant help yourself,so be it ,dont ask me

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Post #: 3
RE: sour grapes? - 7/21/2008 11:53:16 AM   
Bughawk


Posts: 5897
Status: online 		Anyone who knows the least amount about the culture of the Middle East and especially Iraq will tell you this war was and continues to be a HUGE MISTAKE.  I know several people from that part of the world, one being from Iraq and they all said the invasion of Iraq was going to open a hornet's nest.  Don't be fooled into thinking because there is a lull in the violence that all is well and these folks are going to play nice.  In fact, many of the problems we have with that region stem from Western interference in the area, some going back to the crusades. 

I agree with your basic principle it was a political war and it is sad to think our leaders where that naive to get sucked into it.  I also agree that we need to pull our troops out, but this is not going to be an easy task.  Even if we decided to bring them all home today, it is going to take well over a year, perhaps longer to get everyone out. 

As for experience, experience is good to a point, but often is overrated.  People with experience tend to do what they know and this can be useful, but sometimes we need to do something different.  The unexperienced person frequently is a better choice at coming up with new and novel approaches, which maybe just what is needed.  Honestly, if John McCain believes experience is to keep up the policies of our current administration, his experience is not going to be very helpful.  I would rather take a risk with someone new than to stay the course of a policy which has lead to our current economic and energy crisis. 

Only history will tell, but I believe when all the dust settles we see that our current president will go down as one of the worst administrators this country has ever had.

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Post #: 4
RE: sour grapes? - 7/21/2008 12:01:32 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		bug ,when we do pull out,which we are told we must leave,yes ,long process,but are we going to go back after everthing accomplished falls apart,, i think lets start a meaningful withdrawal,not one that most politicians are asking for and just yank our troops out,,, i feel while we are still there we should go into support mode,minimize our casualties, and let the govt we put in place handle their own affairs,, we did our part,right or wrong, now lets start a cautious withdrawal, and leave that region to their own makings,,,,that region  has been warring for 1,000 yrs or more,we will not solve that problem

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 5
RE: sour grapes? - 7/21/2008 12:58:26 PM   
saltflyfisher

 

Posts: 1043
Joined: 8/14/2003
Status: online 		Rock, currently listening to obama he does not have the 'Just yank our troops out" policy. He has stated a timed removal over 16 months. McCain is a we'll stay forever policy. Malicily( sp) himself in the past couple weeks have asked for a timetable of removal of troops.

The current gov. in Iraq is a joke at best, they've had certain goals to make but the decider says and does nothing to hold them to them.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ROCKHARD

bug ,when we do pull out,which we are told we must leave,yes ,long process,but are we going to go back after everthing accomplished falls apart,, i think lets start a meaningful withdrawal,not one that most politicians are asking for and just yank our troops out,,, i feel while we are still there we should go into support mode,minimize our casualties, and let the govt we put in place handle their own affairs,, we did our part,right or wrong, now lets start a cautious withdrawal, and leave that region to their own makings,,,,that region  has been warring for 1,000 yrs or more,we will not solve that problem

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 6
RE: sour grapes? - 7/21/2008 1:02:00 PM   
Bughawk


Posts: 5897
Status: online 		Rockhard,

I agree that we cannot just pick up and leave, but we definitely need to start withdrawing.  The govt we put into place will need to take over.  Will it sink or swim?  Time will tell. 

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Post #: 7
RE: sour grapes? - 7/21/2008 1:09:09 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2585
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: online 		btw, rudy says obama has no international policy experience (and he doesn't) but rudy ran for the nomination also and has no i-p experience either.  pot calling the kettle........

that was the point of my post.

we need to get out also, no business there. 

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 8
RE: sour grapes? - 7/21/2008 1:12:26 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5815
Status: offline 		"we hear war for oil,,,what an assanine remark,where is the oil"

Bush himself, claimed at the onset that it would be financed through oil revenues. It's estimated it will COST us over 2 TRILLION dollars, when the smoke clears.

f"unny how unanamous vote by both parties put us there"

First of all, it was NOT unanimous. Second, they did NOT vote to go to war. They voted to give Bush the AUTHORITY to do so, IF, and WHEN all other options failed. Giving the president the authority to deal with such situations through a position of strength, is the right thing to do. Giving it to Bush, turned out to be the wrong thing to do.

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Post #: 9
RE: sour grapes? - 7/21/2008 2:10:24 PM   
Mikastorm


Posts: 2801
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Where do you want to fight them? Here or there? If the terrorists are massing in Afganistan, why not take them out?

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Post #: 10
RE: sour grapes? - 7/21/2008 2:16:10 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5815
Status: offline 		"If the terrorists are massing in Afganistan, why not take them out?"

Because the bulk of our resources are in Iraq.

Imagine that. 

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Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

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Post #: 11
RE: sour grapes? - 7/21/2008 2:55:00 PM   
Bughawk


Posts: 5897
Status: online 		Afganistan is a totally different issue.  I have no problem going after Bin Ladin and his cronies in Afganistan, Pakistan, or whatever 'stan that they might be hiding in.  Catch the criminals is what we should be about.

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Post #: 12
RE: sour grapes? - 7/21/2008 4:42:28 PM   
jon_e_si

 

Posts: 337
Joined: 5/4/2006
Status: offline 		Terrorists are Terrorists - We flushed them out of Afganistan into Iraq (via Iran and Syria) and now some are making it back to Afganistan (especially those released from Gitmo)!

What about Bosnia and Kosovo? or the 125 +/- other countries we have troops in???

(in reply to Bughawk)
Post #: 13
RE: sour grapes? - 7/21/2008 7:50:41 PM   
jonnyfishon

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline 		Yep the USA is the world most expensive babysitters. Id say put all of our troops in Iraq, clear the country in 5 months(go all out)then leave. Id like to see 80% of our troops around the world home, but someone has to protect the "special intrest" of our government. The men and women of our military protects the men and women of our country, Its to bad the gov is fooling them and us.

(in reply to jon_e_si)
Post #: 14
RE: sour grapes? - 7/21/2008 8:01:46 PM   
jonnyfishon

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mikastorm

Where do you want to fight them? Here or there? If the terrorists are massing in Afganistan, why not take them out?

Mika, can you say MOAB(mother of all bombs) when we were attacked on 911, we should have went all out ,balls to the wall,I mean kill everything, It would have been better received right after 911. If someone kicks your wife and you beat him silly, people will say he had it comming to him. BUT if you wait for years, and then attack him,only your close buddies would understand.

(in reply to Mikastorm)
Post #: 15
RE: sour grapes? - 7/22/2008 1:06:18 AM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		well jonny,i finally agree, we have the might but every skirmish we get into ,we dont use it,,, this war could have been done in a matter of days with the right one holding that button,,,,,, see spoon,but where is this revenue from oil,good intentions never delivered,and yes they did vote for war and they have tried all channels for yrs before bush got in office,,since desert storm 1,suddam went against every issue the un and the world threw at him,,how long do you play with someone like that,how many times has he defied and fired on our fighter jets in the north,,, i say ,pull troops out of every foreign land and then let all hell brake loose and sit back and watch....

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 16
RE: sour grapes? - 7/22/2008 8:30:45 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2585
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: online 		don't care who voted for the war, it was wrong.

this was not a united states problem, but a un problem....let them handle it.

there are many other countries where un laws are being broken, do we meddle in each of these too?

why are we in iraq?  afghanistan is the war on terror....bin laden and his bunch are in this region, not and never in iraq.

six years into this mess, it should be evident by now.

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 17
RE: sour grapes? - 7/22/2008 11:11:16 AM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		rap,dont worry,we are leaving iraq,,hell obama is pulling troops out, not sending them home tho,but right next door to afghan.,,, now if bush would have made that call,he would be castrated,but the messiah says its ok ,so now the media is jumping for joy we are at war,,read the n.y.times, overwhelmed and happy ,obama is going to send our troops to afghan.,, funny how it all depends on what party wants war

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 18
RE: sour grapes? - 7/22/2008 11:23:45 AM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5815
Status: offline 		Bull,

They have been ASKING BUsh to do the same thing for 4 years, BEFORE the situaton there deteriorated, which it has. This has been the criticism of the war in Iraq. That it has taken focus from the true front, Afghanistan.



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Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

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Post #: 19
RE: sour grapes? - 7/22/2008 11:27:38 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2585
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: online 		all those troops should have been afghanistan from the start, not iraq.  this has nothing to do with political parties.  this is about what is right or wrong.  we have a right to defend ourselves and bring those who attack us to justice (afghanistan) but we don't have the right to attack another nation without reason (iraq).

btw, the only thing i hate worse than politics is war.  wish we could live, as a people, without both.  would be fun to see some of these congressional jokers working in a mill or warehouse. 

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 20
RE: sour grapes? - 7/22/2008 11:28:13 AM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		we always had a force in afghan.,spoon,iraq didnt take no troops from there, obama wants to hit pakistan also, what they do to you,same arguement as iraq,, bin laden ,i believe isnt even near that whole region

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 21
RE: sour grapes? - 7/22/2008 12:07:18 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5815
Status: offline 		"obama wants to hit pakistan also, what they do to you,same arguement as iraq,, bin laden ,i believe isnt even near that whole region"

Have you paid attention at all? Pretty much EVERYONE, agrees that he is along the Pakistan, Afghhan border. It is where al qaida basically formed, where they trained, and where they are regrouping. Our force in Afghanistan isn't a third of what it is in Iraq. We had Bin Laden cornered there, and turned control over to the Afghani's to focus on Iraq. We may not have pulled troops FROM there, but additional troops NEEDED there, were diverted to Iraq.

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 22
RE: sour grapes? - 7/22/2008 12:20:22 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		yes he was there,but i dont feel no more, i bet he is long gone,, i also believe we did lighten up in afghan.way to soon,, when we won WW2, WE USED THE MIGHT OF OUR FORCES,to bring berlin to its knees,we did same to JAPAN,thats what needs to be done now,, to end this war in afghan or anywhere else we need to bring them to their knees, which means level the tallest mountain tops to rubble,no place to hide, not leave a single structure standing, if it means killing inocent,oh well,that might be what it takes for them to give in and surrender, or face a backlash of their own people, remember,it was the bombing of berlin,and the leveling of hiroshima that ended the war ,not killing their soldiers

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 23
RE: sour grapes? - 7/22/2008 12:43:58 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2585
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: online 		obama wants pakistan, and mcsame wants iran....so what's your point?

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 24
RE: sour grapes? - 7/22/2008 1:08:48 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1532
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		The point is lets make sure we clean up the Iraq mess before we start another one. The terrorists are moving out of Iraq now because of the pressure we put on them. To leave too soon will just cause them to move back in. What kind of a mess do you think we would have by going into Pakistan? They already have the big bombs.

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 25
RE: sour grapes? - 7/22/2008 1:15:43 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2585
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: online 		never pakistan, our first order of business all along was afghanistan, where the taliban was giving bin laden refuge.  we had the support of all the "stans" at the time and we were moving in the right direction to hit that genocidal maniac.

as for iraq, we have to clean up the mess we made, no doubt, but iraq was not a refuge of terrorism.  remember how saddam and bin laden hated each other?  bin laden saw hussein as a dictator, not worthy of the muslim community.  in fact, iraqs' only ally at the time was syria. 

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 26
RE: sour grapes? - 7/22/2008 1:19:09 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2585
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: online 		,, i also believe we did lighten up in afghan.way to soon,, when we won WW2, WE USED THE MIGHT OF OUR FORCES,to bring berlin to its knees,we did same to JAPAN,thats what needs to be done now

rock, we never had much troop strength in afghanistan to begin with.  went something like 160,000 to iraq and less than 30,000 in afghanistan.

might of our forces?  general petraeus is already saying we are stretched to the breaking point...remember?  that is with 200,000 military personnel between the two nations.

hope you weren't suggesting nukes.  as s10 says, pakistan (and india and maybe iran) have nukes.  ain't gonna work there. 

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 27
RE: sour grapes? - 7/22/2008 1:59:09 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		no rap,not necassarily nukes, but we should never put troops on ground til clean up time,,bomb til nothing standing,not even a tree,,, keep terrorist running,no rest,bomb ,bomb,bomb,,,yes as far as troops,we are stretched, as far as others having nukes,take them sites out first, no chance for a launch from them,, anihalation is how these terrorist want to play,i say lets do it first

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 28
RE: sour grapes? - 7/22/2008 3:20:19 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1532
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		So Rap---as you said--- obama wants pakistan and mcsame wants iraq-----who are you going to go with?

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 29
RE: sour grapes? - 7/22/2008 3:21:45 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1532
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		Sorry--Iran not iraq

(in reply to S-10)
Post #: 30
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