Is anyone the least bit surprised? (Full Version)

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DanesDad -> Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/13/2008 9:30:05 PM)

Attorney General Tom Corbett said,  the indictment of twelve people in a widespread political corruption case, is not an isolated incident but merely part of a "culture of corruption" within PA state government.  Basically the inference is that Bill DeWeese, Stan Ramaley, and former rep Mike Veon are not just "bad apples" but part of a longstanding tradition in Harrisburg of criminal activity!

These guys are ripping off taxpayers!  You and Me!  As if the price of gasoline wasn't bad enough!

When you go into the voting booth in November, please do NOT vote incumbent.  The widespread corruption is certainly not limited to one party.  It's when politicians are reelected time after time,  they begin to believe they are invulnerable and can do whatever they want....legal or not.  Your ONLY recourse to show your disgust is at the polls.  No politician should feel he's in for life, once elected.

So do yourself a favor this election and vote out the incumbents.



Grendel -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/13/2008 9:40:15 PM)

DanesDad,

I was flipping through the threads (the last one being value of human life), when I happened upon your thread.  Being that I subscribe to the Marxist/Radical/Critical side, I believe that the one's in power are doing more harm to human life than any street criminal could EVER do.  It is obvious to me that the value of human life (in its many shapes and forms), is in decay, not because of some radicals over yonder, but rather, by those we entrusted with running the ship right here.  It seems simply "throwing" money around is making matters much worse.

I believe we ned to focus our attentions to the matters right here in our own backyard.  When attention is placed in one direction, it allows the "rats" to run amuck in another.

Great thrread.

Doc




DanesDad -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/13/2008 9:45:23 PM)

I'll tell you this, as far as messing up the quality of my life and my ability to thrive and succeed and be happy, I am WAY more afraid of Rendell and Co. than any terrorist in the middle east.



Grendel -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/13/2008 9:50:40 PM)

The same holds true here.



spoonchucker -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/13/2008 9:57:36 PM)

We went from being 41st in job growth to 15th, in his term. Must be doing SOMETHING right.

Since taking office, Governor Edward G. Rendell has signed into law an unprecedented economic stimulus program that was overwhelmingly approved by bipartisan majorities in the Legislature.
The stimulus program leverages some $2.3 billion in grants, loans and guarantees over the next five years to generate at least $5 billion in private-sector investment to help start new businesses in Pennsylvania and help existing companies expand here. Municipalities and businesses throughout the Commonwealth are already dipping into the pool of resources now available to boost our business climate, spur private sector growth, revitalize our housing and rebuild our infrastructure.
The Governor's Action Team (GAT) has been hard at work ensuring that companies have the resources to expand their businesses here -- creating or retaining jobs for Pennsylvanians. During the Rendell Administration, GAT performance was the highest it has ever been since GAT began collecting statistics in FY97/98. Compared to the previous administration (1998-2002), the number of GAT projects completed successfully in the Rendell Administration (2003 – 2007) has increased by 25 percent.



spoonchucker -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/13/2008 10:20:22 PM)

Danes,

Most pols at that level I "believe" are honest going in, and have the desire to serve. However the "quid pro quo" game is hard to avoid. Especially as one gains seniority, and power. Another problem, is that folks want that ( seniority, and power ) in THEIR districts, plus they tend to prefer a known commodity. Hence I am leaning towards term limits. However this can be a two edged sword. Not having re-election concerns, might enable lawmakers to concentrate on the "job", and make the tough ( perhaps unpopular ) decisions. Not having the opportunity TO get re-elected, could ALSO make them even less reponsive to the electorate.



DanesDad -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/13/2008 10:35:27 PM)

I'm not going to argue the merits of the Rendell admin. with you, I'll let out great grandchildren do that while they are writing checks to pay the debts he is incurring right now.

Look at the front page of the sunday trib.  A rogues gallery of elected officials past, and present, that have had their hands in your pockets.  Pork barrel projects are bad enough, but how about when they pay aids YOUR tax dollars to campaign for them?  The crimes occurred over a long period of time, indicating that such criminal activity is the status quo in Harrisburg.  THAT makes me sick!

I like the idea of term limitations.  It automatically eliminates voter ignorance that has run rampant for so long.  Even if a voter pulled the straight ticket every time, he wouldn't be voting for the same guy again and again.  I'm not worried about politicians response to my concerns.  I'd rather have a guy ignore me than steal from me.  And this crew is robbing me (and you) blind.



spoonchucker -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/13/2008 10:58:42 PM)

"I'll let out great grandchildren do that while they are writing checks to pay the debts he is incurring right now."

What debt? We have a budget SURPLUS. Now, would you like to look at Bush, and the Republican congress' contibution to you greatgrandchildren's debt? 



ROCKHARD -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/14/2008 12:32:01 AM)

yea we have surplus,,but our schools are closing all over,many jobs are govt positions,and that is why we always have tax increases in pa.., havent seen the growth in western pa.,,must be in philly, oh yeah ,our mass transit is falling apart



DanesDad -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/14/2008 1:19:32 AM)

If we have a surplus, why are my taxes so high?  Why does the state have to lease the turnpike to fix roads?  What about Growing Greener, where did that money come from?



DanesDad -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/14/2008 1:21:15 AM)

Bush is no better.  But my main concern is not Rendell, or Bush.  It is, why do Pennsylvanians continue to re- elect criminals that are ripping them off???



ROCKHARD -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/14/2008 1:30:51 AM)

well d.d., your better off bashing bush,cause he is to the right, and rendell is to the left,and the left has all the answers on these posts, all these problems never existed until the last 8 yrs according to posters on here,, no one never lost a job,businesses never closed, never had a war before, prices never went up, it was the garden of eden til bush got in there,, im surprised if anyone ever had a medical problem before,, and these representatives you mentioned their dems,,all set up by bush



DanesDad -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/14/2008 3:41:55 AM)

Trust me, the corruption in this state has no particular loyalty to one party or another.



rapala11 -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/14/2008 5:48:49 AM)

rock, thought you didn't like bush, didn't vote for him and wanted to vote em all out.  you sure defend him on all these posts.



saltflyfisher -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/14/2008 6:52:34 AM)

ding, ding, ding, we have a winner
quote:

ORIGINAL: rapala11

rock, thought you didn't like bush, didn't vote for him and wanted to vote em all out.  you sure defend him on all these posts.



ROCKHARD -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/14/2008 11:11:22 AM)

no one defending him, d.d. made a post about how corrupt some elected officials are,been on the local news for a week,but he gets slammed by others on this post,spoon, others about bush,, their are more problems in this nation besides bush,, all i was stating in my comment was how quick rendell was defended for his policies ,know we are one of the highest taxed states in history, no surplus thru policies other than higher tax policies,,,our economy in pa is not on rebound, where if it is ,,,,,,about last 8 yrs, thats the message we all see on here,that at no other times in history,did we have problems,, that was my outlook rap



DanesDad -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/15/2008 3:54:42 PM)

I didn't take it as getting slammed on Bush...more like the thread changing direction.  That's OK.  It was odd that Rendell was defended so quickly.  Kind of like the woman defending the rapist.  Rock, I agree with you, tho.  Especially "no surplus thru policies other than higher tax policies".  Couldn'ta said it better.

I say again, folks.  Please vote against incumbents.  These guys get in there (some with good intentions, admittedly) and they join the government culture, which is one of entitlement and easy living.  Then they just assume that they are set for life.  It shouldn't be this way.  Any of you could lose your jobs tomorrow if you demonstrated half the incompetence or corruption that some legistlators exibit on a daily basis.  Remember, WE are their bosses.  They answer to US. And it's time to hold them accountable for their performance like all of us in the real world are held accountable for ours.



gobyking -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/19/2008 2:11:41 AM)

Funny,anyone who posts something somewhat political,Spoon defends the liberals and Rock defends the Republicans.Doesn't it seem weird that BOTH parties have problems with corruption?Read again Danesdad post above,WE are the bosses.Most other states don't have this kind of control of the people,but would like to.Vote them out,we have a better chance with someone who has idealistic morals rather than someone who is familiar with the system.



ROCKHARD -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/19/2008 10:36:36 AM)

gb,not at all defending repubs in whole,,actually i think the repubs hurt the credibility of the conservative branch of the repub party,, i am basically an indep. voter,but tend to lean towards conservatism ,, i believe in super small govt,low low taxes,less intervention of govt in all our daily lives,and less intrusiveness in the business world by govt....yes with rendell,i do think pa.,is going no where but less job growth,and higher taxes...



DanesDad -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/19/2008 3:39:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ROCKHARD

gb,not at all defending repubs in whole,,actually i think the repubs hurt the credibility of the conservative branch of the repub party,, i am basically an indep. voter,but tend to lean towards conservatism ,, i believe in super small govt,low low taxes,less intervention of govt in all our daily lives,and less intrusiveness in the business world by govt....yes with rendell,i do think pa.,is going no where but less job growth,and higher taxes...


If this is all true, being a resident of PA must be like a living hell for you, since government here is the exact opposite of your beliefs.



ROCKHARD -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/20/2008 1:03:55 AM)

yea,d.d., it is the opposite of what i believe in,but then again all of america is,,, i guess the dakotas and montana are still open range for a type of my beliefs,,, i love the country, but despise the govt for the way they spend our tax dollars and try to run every aspect of our lives



jonnyfishon -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/20/2008 3:28:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ROCKHARD

gb,not at all defending repubs in whole,,actually i think the repubs hurt the credibility of the conservative branch of the repub party,, i am basically an indep. voter,but tend to lean towards conservatism ,, i believe in super small govt,low low taxes,less intervention of govt in all our daily lives,and less intrusiveness in the business world by govt....yes with rendell,i do think pa.,is going no where but less job growth,and higher taxes...

The gov. did not regulate business and this is the reason why we have all these issues. The lack off regulations allowed all the big corperations to rob us rock. I know you will defend this but how can you say you want the corperations to rape you as long as the government lets them. I like low taxes, but since there was not gov. oversite(regulations) the opposite will happen to make up for all the crap that is happining to the economy.



ROCKHARD -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/21/2008 11:26:57 AM)

no jonny,there is more govt control than you think, its just they have their hands in the pie to, these politicians live the sweet life, what you see in our economy is not only corp greed but also govt greed and incompetence, bush has enlarged this govt to all time highs,spent us into oblivion,and now we have obama that wants to add to this govt berauecacy, add another trillion to our debt, so who has the greed,corp. or govt



spoonchucker -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/21/2008 2:19:56 PM)

"now we have obama that wants to add to this govt berauecacy, add another trillion to our debt,"

If only adds another trillion, he would have a far better record than Bush, Bush I, OR Reagan.





DanesDad -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/21/2008 5:52:40 PM)

I agree with corporate and government greed.  Really, politicians are probably mainly made up of guys that were too stupid to become successful businessmen.  (OK, not all of them....but many).

"yea,d.d., it is the opposite of what i believe in,but then again all of america is,,, i guess the dakotas and montana are still open range for a type of my beliefs,,, i love the country, but despise the govt for the way they spend our tax dollars and try to run every aspect of our lives"

Yep, I agree with ya there.  Pennsylvania is so over governed, it's ridiculous.  I think we'd get better service with half the laws and a quarter the legislators.  Do, I need the Feds, the largest full time state legislature in the nation, and county and local government-each with a hand in my pocket?   I dont think so. (as an aside-I'm really glad I dont live in Allegheny county-what a bunch of misfits and screwballs run THAT place).

Thank goodness for Tom Corbett.  He's on the warpath and heads are gonna roll!  Veon is just the first legislator that's gonna go to jail.  But not the last!

DeWeese-YOU are next!  And if the law dont get you, the voters will!




spoonchucker -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/21/2008 7:03:10 PM)

Rock,

You keep making statements of opinion as facts, WITHOUT the data to back it up. IE:

"know we are one of the highest taxed states in history, no surplus thru policies other than higher tax policies,,,our economy in pa is not on rebound,"

Governor Rendell, joined by Michael Dell, announces that the Commonwealth has awarded Dell a contract that is expected to save Pennsylvania taxpayers $19.1 million annually.
The Governor's strategic sourcing program is broad in scope but simple in concept. It seeks to make the state live by the rules that families and businesses have lived by for years-- buy only what you need, not what you want. For the first time, the Commonwealth will take advantage of the full purchasing power of the state's agencies to drive down prices.
This purchasing approach has been used by successful businesses in the private sector for years, and has generated substantial savings for the taxpayers of a number of other states including Delaware, Illinois, Virginia and Florida. We're not even halfway through the process and already this new strategy of smart buying has generated more than $180 million in annual savings:
  • Shared Services Center Procurements - $2136 Million in Savings
  • Personal Computers Contract Renewal - $8.2 Million in Savings
  • Auto Parts, Police Vehicles, Coal, Prison Health Services, Maintenance for Capitol Complex Security Systems - $2.8 Million in Savings
  • Insurance for Properties - $2.2 Million in Savings
  • Pre-Sort Mail - $4.5 Million in Savings
  • Maintenance - $2.1 Million in Savings
  • Printing - $2 Million in Savings
  • Health & Human Services Call Center - $2.2 Million in Savings
  • Medical Services - $2.7 Million in Savings
  • Commissary - $3.0 Million in Savings
  • Telecommunications - $6.8 Million in Savings
  • Advertising - $2.6 Million in Savings
  • IT Staff Augmentation - $19.8 Million in Savings
  • Vehicles & Tires - $3.1 Million in Savings
  • Food - $10 Million in Savings
  • Networking Gear & Peripherals - $8.5 Million in Savings
  • Cleaning Supplies - $3.5 Million in Savings
  • Computer Servers & Storage - $13.4 Million in Savings
  • Office Furniture - $7 Million in Savings
  • Personal Computers - $19.1 Million in Savings
  • Copiers - $11 Million In Savings
  • Office Supplies - $9.6 Million in Savings
  • Computer Maintenance - $4.2 Million in Savings
  • Asphalts - $2.4 Million in Savings
  • Software - $4 Million in Savings



spoonchucker -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/21/2008 7:08:07 PM)

Plus, you keep saying the president is just a puppet, and congress "controls" things. The governor, would fit this discription as well. Keep in mind, that REPUBLICANS have held both house through both his terms. HE can't pass a budget, or tax increase without THEM. It was the fiscal irresponsibilty ( and neglect of our infrastructure ) of the previous administration, that brought about the need for tax increases in the first place, and house Reps knew it. That's why they went along with the increase.



spoonchucker -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/21/2008 7:17:14 PM)

  • "know we are one of the highest taxed states in history"
 
Again, opinion, NOT fact.



jonnyfishon -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/21/2008 7:32:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ROCKHARD

no jonny,there is more govt control than you think, its just they have their hands in the pie to, these politicians live the sweet life, what you see in our economy is not only corp greed but also govt greed and incompetence, bush has enlarged this govt to all time highs,spent us into oblivion,and now we have obama that wants to add to this govt berauecacy, add another trillion to our debt, so who has the greed,corp. or govt

You  dont make sense. They DID not control anything. Subprime morgage, no gov regs there,but a nice bailout. Gas spectulator,no gov reg there. Your administration ALLOWED big corp to run this country without any REGULATIONS. Do you think for one second it i had my hand in the pot i would regulate anything. If the government did its job this would not have happend. Gov greed and incompetence I agree, this is what you get when you DO NOT REGULATE anything. Show me gov control or regulations .



ROCKHARD -> RE: Is anyone the least bit surprised? (7/22/2008 1:21:55 AM)

jonny, who do you think raised them regs on mortgages ,your buddy bill,,,,and not my administration,big corp been running this country for decades,,oil companies have so many regs you couldnt post them here,there are so many permits and regs to drill, it takes yrs to get,,, steel industry,regulated into near exstinction,auto industry,full of regs,,,, another thing jonny,is your idea of regs a hefty tax on profit or regs to bring business in line,big difference there,, spoon,thats why our taxes went up,state income tax went up,all those savings are for govt,we still pay the taxes,,,school taxes forever going up,property taxes,wheres the savings,wow,we should all get a huge refund soon



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