RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration

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RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 12:20:39 PM

ROCKHARD

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rap,they are politician,,no matter what they say,they dont feel the pain,, these are all millionares,in and out of office,,,

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RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 3:55:03 PM

rapala11

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anarchy rocks............just kidding.

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01/20/09

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Post #: 32

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 4:23:54 PM

ROCKHARD

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maybe the show of a revolt will change some minds in washington,,never know

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Post #: 33

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 4:26:38 PM

rapala11

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don't things will change by just voting them out. rather, we need indictments and inprisonments in both the congress and above. they (all) should be held to the same standards and penalties as you and i.

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01/20/09

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 34

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 4:33:55 PM

ROCKHARD

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YEA, thats what needs to be done,they arent above the law in my books

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 35

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 4:56:58 PM

rapala11

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purge em

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01/20/09

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 36

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 7:55:13 PM

Split Shot

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RAPSCLLION say's "Well I guess you guy's have no objection then as to how Bush is spending on the war to keep our lives more valuable." I am not sure if you are kidding or you believe that Bush is protecting me by being in Iraq? If you do believe that then I say, The majority of the guy's on the planes on Sept. 11 were from Saudi Arabia. So W say's let's go invade Iraq. Because Saddam is a bad man and killed alot of people. There are dictators in Africa that have been killing millions of people and W hasn't invaded them to help the people and set up a democracy for them. ?????? Oh, and I almost forgot. Bin Laden is still out there somewhere! No offense Rapscillion, we all have an opinion!

< Message edited by Split Shot -- 7/13/2008 8:07:01 PM >

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RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 8:31:48 PM

Rapscallion

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My comment was made in regards to the amount of money that is being spent on the war, whether against the correct enemy or not, in order to in theory, protect us and give more value to our lives. If I'm understanding the point of this thread correctly, now Bush is being blamed for reducing the value of our lives. If that is the case, there should be no problem with the amount of money he is spending on the war to protect us and give our lives value.

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Post #: 38

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 8:50:26 PM

track2514

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I agree Split Shot, and I must say it seems history repeats itself.

War on Terror = Vietnam

Let's just hope the War on Terror doesn't last 20 years like Vietnam. One of my college friends just returned from his final tour in Iraq and he said the war is worse now than when it started. The insurgency is currently just toying with us and the new Iraqi government and as soon as large numbers of the troops leave, they will just take over again and it will be business as usual. But don't tell that to Bush since he declared victory years ago. All this war has accomplished is dividing America and fueling more hatred of the USA. Sorry for the rant, but this just gets me fired up because I have friends who have served and I am a professor who has lost former students to the war. One of my former students was killed this past winter in Iraq and all I could think when I heard the news was this kid had his whole life ahead of him (he was only 23 years old). He only went to Iraq as a means of paying for college and now we will never know what he could have contributed to society. Oh well, my point is this war has done nothing good for America or Iraq for that matter. After it is all said and done we will be remembering the War on Terror as one of the worst U.S. government and military failures.

On a final note, I will leave everyone with a quote from my former student's father: "We were told our son died fighting for our freedom. All I know is that we were free before our son went to Iraq and we are still free, but our son will never again enjoy that freedom."

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Post #: 39

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 9:15:43 PM

spoonchucker

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Ok rapscallion, by your thinking, you would be correct. Let's assume the war prevents an attack equal to 9/11. Cost of the war ( CBO estimate ) $1.6 trillion divided by lives lost 3,000 = value per life $533 million. So you would be correct. BUT, the war has also cost the US 4,118 lives, thus a net DECREASE in value.

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Post #: 40

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 9:26:02 PM

Rapscallion

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I'm referring to an entire country being attacked at will not just the lives lost in one attack. Again, if I am understanding the point of this thread correctly and please excuse me if I am mistaken, the value counts toward all American lives. Meaning, we are given a value as a living, breathing human that lives in America. By spending money on the war against terror, Bush is in effect trying to increase the value of each and every one of our lives. Whether we are killed in an attack or not, our lives are still being protected more in theory by spending money on the war everyday than they would be if he wasn't spending that money. Kind of like putting a Picasso in a locked glass case as opposed to letting it sit out in a thunderstorm everyday.

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Post #: 41

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 9:44:19 PM

spoonchucker

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scallion.

Divide that $1.7 trillion by ALL Americans ( 305 million )= $5,245 per life.

By the way, all National Intelligence Estimates, indicate that the war ( in Iraq ) is making us LESS safe. So every dollar spent on it lessens the value.

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Post #: 42

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 9:51:55 PM

Grendel

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cha ching!

Another "little Native American" for Spoon

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Must also be tamed
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RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 9:58:30 PM

rapala11

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We were told our son died fighting for our freedom. All I know is that we were free before our son went to Iraq and we are still free, but our son will never again enjoy that freedom."

my heart breaks reading that statement. too many brave americans and innocent iraqis have died and no one can tell us why. it is like reliving the viet nam era all over.

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Post #: 44

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 10:08:35 PM

Rapscallion

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It doesn't matter if he is spending 10 dollars or 10 trillion dollars. The point is that he is spending money to protect us thus making our lives worth more.
Well, I don't feel less safe. As long as the bad guys whomever they may be, feel that we as a country are after their arses, then I'll sleep a lot better at night. Maybe putting one of the bad guys own in the White House will cause them to look elsewhere for targets which to obliterate. You people seem to feel that anyone but Bush will be an improvement. I personally have had a very nice last eight years in my life. Hopefully, the next four will be just as nice.
By the way, hi Charlie! How about those Pens?

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Post #: 45

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 10:10:36 PM

rapala11

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You people seem to feel that anyone but Bush will be an improvement/ for the 4000 soldiers who died over there, it hasn't been a good 8 years and for the 1000s who have come home permanently disabled it is even worse.

any ways, it can't get much worse, but it probably won't be much better either. realism gets in the way of optimism.....sorry

< Message edited by rapala11 -- 7/13/2008 10:15:02 PM >

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..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 46

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 10:32:49 PM

spoonchucker

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"Maybe putting one of the bad guys own in the White House will cause them to look elsewhere for targets which to obliterate."

TRY to fit this into your brain. Obama is NOT a muslim, let alone an Islamic extremist.

Yeah I feel REAL safe knowing we're creating TEN terrorist for everyone we kill.

$1.7 trillion spent on education, healthcare, law enforcement HERE, and on our border, research into alternative fuels, repairing infrastructure ( bridges such as the one that failed a couple years ago, or the levees that failed last month ) and countles other things, would improve the quality, and value of American lives far more effeciently.

< Message edited by spoonchucker -- 7/13/2008 10:33:50 PM >

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RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 10:38:03 PM

rapala11

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kudos, spoon..

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01/20/09

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 48

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 10:43:54 PM

Rapscallion

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Easy there big guy. Neither you nor I know what obama/sama really is. I'm not even sure if he knows what he is. What I do know, is that the name he chooses to go by isn't going to be found on too many birth certificates in the good ole USA. Not like we're talking John Smith here or anything. I know if I wanted to portray myself as someone not of the Muslim religion or way of life, the name he goes by might not be the first one I would choose.
But who knows? Maybe, if elected, he'll be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then again, maybe not. I guess time will tell.
As for creating ten terrorists for every one we kill, of the ten that are created, each one killed is one less we have to worry about killing any of us. You can't honestly think that if we stopped pursuing them they would all of a sudden have a decrease in future members? Tell me your anti Bush views have not taken you that far down nirvana lane?

< Message edited by Rapscallion -- 7/13/2008 10:48:27 PM >

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RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 11:04:30 PM

spoonchucker

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"What I do know, is that the name he chooses to go by isn't going to be found on too many birth certificates in the good ole USA."

He goes by the name GIVEN to him by his parents. Did YOU choose YOUR name. That's one of the most ridiculous statements yet. By the way, his middle name could also be tied to KING Hussein of Jordan, who was a beloved leader of his nation, and a FRIEND to the US.

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Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

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Post #: 50

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 11:14:15 PM

spoonchucker

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"You can't honestly think that if we stopped pursuing them they would all of a sudden have a decrease in future members?"

If we stop pursuing THEM, no. But if we stopped wreaking havoc on peoples who previously HAD no terroristic inclination, YES.

How do you reduce the number of something by creating more it, than you eliminate?

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Post #: 51

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 11:16:04 PM

Rapscallion

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Then perhaps his parents may have some Muslim affiliations as well. Regardless, with the way the world is today, If I was running to become the most powerfull man in charge of the most powerfull country in the world, and I knew how the majority of it's citizens felt about a certain religion, I would most likely change my given name if it resembled the one he was given.
But, as I told another fine gentleman on this forum, when the big guy was handing out brains, I was in a different line.
As to your second point, no terroristic inclination that was ever verified, not no terrorist inclination that ever existed. For not having any terrorists over where we are currently fighting, we sure are eliminating enough of them. At the very least, one out of every ten.

< Message edited by Rapscallion -- 7/13/2008 11:20:16 PM >

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Post #: 52

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 11:26:10 PM

spoonchucker

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Is everyone in America, named John a Catholic, or even a Christian? One's family name MIGHT reflect their ethnicity, but not necessarliy ( in fact seldom ) their religion, OR that of their parents.

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Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

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Post #: 53

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 11:34:10 PM

spoonchucker

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"For not having any terrorists over where we are currently fighting, we sure are eliminating enough of them."

No, we are eliminating alot of folks fighting back against OUR invasion, and occupation of their country. Wouldn't YOU, and a whole lot of Americans BECOME terrorists if a foreign nation occupied the US. You can be DAMNED sure THIS GUY, would. And since I don't have access to an F-14, or rocket launcher, I might be inclined to use a few home made bombs myself.

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Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

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Post #: 54

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 11:40:08 PM

Rapscallion

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But first impressions are worth a thousand words. Either visually through ones looks or ones name. I personally would feel much better about Fred Smith than Barrack Obama if I was attempting to lead this country.
But, alas, it is late and I grow weary. You are a man of strong beliefs and convictions and you communicate both very well. Two things which I both share and admire. The verbal joust has been much appreciated. Perhaps we shall once again have the opportunity in the future to battle with our individual swords of convictions and beliefs another evening.
I bid you good night.

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Post #: 55

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 11:41:11 PM

spoonchucker

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Saddam Hussein: Secular or Religious Ruler?
Saddam Hussein's popularity in the Muslim and Arab world varied greatly, depending upon whom one asked and what the political situation at the time was. Because of his repression of the religious Shi'ite minority in Iraq and his long war with Shi'ite Iran, it was difficult for Shi'ite Muslims to find anything good to say about Hussein. In addition, because of his staunch secularism and his secularization of Iraq, it was difficult for devout and conservative Muslims of any type to think well of him.

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Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

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Post #: 56

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 11:55:10 PM

ROCKHARD

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all i know,the war in iraq, listen to one party,not a good idea,listen to the other party,had to be done,why,might never know,the true reason, not one politician will give a straight answer, majority voted to go to war, then once we get engulfed in the war ,politicians get cold feet,change their stance on the war, and say ,i was against it from the beginning, but (voted cause it was the right thing to do at the time), now i want to change my vote to no ,cause its election season ,and i want re-elected,, that my friends is our political leaders at work,,, lets leave the pres out to dry, cause our party changed and stabbed him in the back,,

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Post #: 57

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/13/2008 11:56:33 PM

track2514

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Spoon

You hit the nail on the head here. I hate to use the Vietnam analogy again, but before we invaded Vietnam how many supposed terrorists were there? It is as clear now as the day we pulled out of Vietnam, invading a country creates terrorists and does not eliminate or reduce them. The War on Terror should be re-named the War of Terror since we are basically the terrorists in this situation. In terms of who is elected for the next president, I will vote for anyone who rightly believes diplomacy as the first course of action and war as a last resort. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I don't remember Bush or anybody else from the current administration spending a significant amount of time on diplomacy. Additionally, why have we simply invaded other countries rather than fortifying our own borders? I don't know how everybody else feels, but I would feel much safer if we had troops at every airport, train station, nuclear power station, and border areas.

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RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/14/2008 12:23:21 AM

ROCKHARD

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i am strongly for enforcing our borders and strengthing our military for securing them,but also i am for stopping this protest against profiling also,, we know who and what the nationalities of these 9/11 terrorist are, so i say start rounding them all up in this country and hold them until they ,from their own mouths ,denounce the extremists from their culture,in front of cameras so all the world sees them, then have them swear allegiance to this nation and only this nation,, cause believe it or not,once we let our guard down ,there are cells in this nation that will do a 9/11 over again ,but at a larger scale,,,thats how you protect this country

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 59

RE: Value of life decline under Bush administration - 7/14/2008 5:31:45 AM

rapala11

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"we know who and what the nationalities of these 9/11 terrorist are, so i say start rounding them all up in this country and hold them until they ,from their own mouths ,denounce the extremists from their culture" rock, you cannot be serious. we have folks from the middle-east as members here. less than 7% (npr interview last night) can be called extremist. i think you may owe jon e and a couple of others here an apology. they are doing the same thing as us, trying to feed their families and get through this life.

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01/20/09

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 60

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