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jon_e_si -> Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/5/2008 2:16:35 PM)





Eight Reasons Why ‘Global Warming’ Is a Scam
Written By: Joseph L. Bast
Published In: Heartlander
Publication Date: February 1, 2003
Publisher: The Heartland Institute






When Al Gore lost his bid to become the country’s first “Environment President,” many of us thought the “global warming” scare would finally come to a well-deserved end. That hasn’t happened, despite eight good reasons this scam should finally be put to rest.

It’s B-a-a-ck!
Similar scares orchestrated by radical environmentalists in the past--such as Alar, global cooling, the “population bomb,” and electromagnetic fields--were eventually debunked by scientists and no longer appear in the speeches or platforms of public officials. The New York Times recently endorsed more widespread use of DDT to combat malaria, proving Rachel Carson’s anti-pesticide gospel is no longer sacrosanct even with the liberal elite.
The scientific case against catastrophic global warming is at least as strong as the case for DDT, but the global warming scare hasn’t gone away. President Bush is waffling on the issue, rightly opposing the Kyoto Protocol and focusing on research and voluntary projects, but wrongly allowing his administration to support calls for creating “transferrable emission credits” for greenhouse gas reductions. Such credits would build political and economic support for a Kyoto-like cap on greenhouse gas emissions.
At the state level, some 23 states have already adopted caps on greenhouse gas emissions or goals for replacing fossil fuels with alternative energy sources. These efforts are doomed to be costly failures, as a new Heartland Policy Study by Dr. Jay Lehr and James Taylor documents. Instead of concentrating on balancing state budgets, some legislators will be working to pass their own “mini-Kyotos.”

Eight Reasons to End the Scam
Concern over “global warming” is overblown and misdirected. What follows are eight reasons why we should pull the plug on this scam before it destroys billions of dollars of wealth and millions of jobs.
1. Most scientists do not believe human activities threaten to disrupt the Earth’s climate. More than 17,000 scientists have signed a petition circulated by the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine saying, in part, “there is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.” (Go to www.oism.org for the complete petition and names of signers.) Surveys of climatologists show similar skepticism.
2. Our most reliable sources of temperature data show no global warming trend. Satellite readings of temperatures in the lower troposphere (an area scientists predict would immediately reflect any global warming) show no warming since readings began 23 years ago. These readings are accurate to within 0.01ºC, and are consistent with data from weather balloons. Only land-based temperature stations show a warming trend, and these stations do not cover the entire globe, are often contaminated by heat generated by nearby urban development, and are subject to human error.
3. Global climate computer models are too crude to predict future climate changes. All predictions of global warming are based on computer models, not historical data. In order to get their models to produce predictions that are close to their designers’ expectations, modelers resort to “flux adjustments” that can be 25 times larger than the effect of doubling carbon dioxide concentrations, the supposed trigger for global warming. Richard A. Kerr, a writer for Science, says “climate modelers have been ‘cheating’ for so long it’s almost become respectable.”
4. The IPCC did not prove that human activities are causing global warming. Alarmists frequently quote the executive summaries of reports from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), a United Nations organization, to support their predictions. But here is what the IPCC’s latest report, Climate Change 2001, actually says about predicting the future climate: “The Earth’s atmosphere-ocean dynamics is chaotic: its evolution is sensitive to small perturbations in initial conditions. This sensitivity limits our ability to predict the detailed evolution of weather; inevitable errors and uncertainties in the starting conditions of a weather forecast amplify through the forecast. As well as uncertainty in initial conditions, such predictions are also degraded by errors and uncertainties in our ability to represent accurately the significant climate processes.”
5. A modest amount of global warming, should it occur, would be beneficial to the natural world and to human civilization. Temperatures during the Medieval Warm Period (roughly 800 to 1200 AD), which allowed the Vikings to settle presently inhospitable Greenland, were higher than even the worst-case scenario reported by the IPCC. The period from about 5000-3000 BC, known as the “climatic optimum,” was even warmer and marked “a time when mankind began to build its first civilizations,” observe James Plummer and Frances B. Smith in a study for Consumer Alert. “There is good reason to believe that a warmer climate would have a similar effect on the health and welfare of our own far more advanced and adaptable civilization today.”
6. Efforts to quickly reduce human greenhouse gas emissions would be costly and would not stop Earth’s climate from changing. Reducing U.S. carbon dioxide emissions to 7 percent below 1990’s levels by the year 2012--the target set by the Kyoto Protocol--would require higher energy taxes and regulations causing the nation to lose 2.4 million jobs and $300 billion in annual economic output. Average household income nationwide would fall by $2,700, and state tax revenues would decline by $93.1 billion due to less taxable earned income and sales, and lower property values. Full implementation of the Kyoto Protocol by all participating nations would reduce global temperature in the year 2100 by a mere 0.14 degrees Celsius.
7. Efforts by state governments to reduce greenhouse gas emissions are even more expensive and threaten to bust state budgets. After raising their spending with reckless abandon during the 1990s, states now face a cumulative projected deficit of more than $90 billion. Incredibly, most states nevertheless persist in backing unnecessary and expensive greenhouse gas reduction programs. New Jersey, for example, collects $358 million a year in utility taxes to fund greenhouse gas reduction programs. Such programs will have no impact on global greenhouse gas emissions. All they do is destroy jobs and waste money.
8. The best strategy to pursue is “no regrets.” The alternative to demands for immediate action to “stop global warming” is not to do nothing. The best strategy is to invest in atmospheric research now and in reducing emissions sometime in the future if the science becomes more compelling. In the meantime, investments should be made to reduce emissions only when such investments make economic sense in their own right.
This strategy is called “no regrets,” and it is roughly what the Bush administration has been doing. The U.S. spends more on global warming research each year than the entire rest of the world combined, and American businesses are leading the way in demonstrating new technologies for reducing and sequestering greenhouse gas emissions.

Time for Common Sense
The global warming scare has enabled environmental advocacy groups to raise billions of dollars in contributions and government grants. It has given politicians (from Al Gore down) opportunities to pose as prophets of doom and slayers of evil corporations. And it has given bureaucrats at all levels of government, from the United Nations to city councils, powers that threaten our jobs and individual liberty.
It is time for common sense to return to the debate over protecting the environment. An excellent first step would be to end the “global warming” scam.



Joseph L. Bast is president of The Heartland Institute.




jonnyfishon -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/5/2008 2:36:01 PM)

I know I would like to breath cleanish air. Global warming true or not,  its proven that all those gases in the air is bad for OUR HEALTH. Instead of "GOING GREEN" how about "SAY NO TO RESPIRATORS". Lets clean up our country for the right reasons.




Over the Hill -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/5/2008 2:47:53 PM)

I agree Jonny. Keep our environment clean as we can. [:)] Climate change or not, it's the right thing to do.[;)]




rapala11 -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/5/2008 3:30:30 PM)

jon e,  same test that i offered rock.  start your car up in the garage. and stay in there a couple of hours to see if emissions have any adverse effects on your health.  this is a contained environment test.




rapala11 -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/5/2008 3:45:17 PM)

jon e.  this guy also debunks national health care.  thought he may be an extreme right-winger instead of an unbiased scientific source, so i did a little reading:

Application




Search Exxon Secrets using Google Search:



A


document.write('');

[image]http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/gplogo.gif[/image]
project.

FACTSHEET: Heartland Institute, Heartland
DETAILS
19 South LaSalle St., Suite 903 Chicago, IL 60603
Phone: 312-377-4000
Founded in the early 1990s, Heartland Institute claims to apply "cutting-edge research to state and local public policy issues." Additionally, Heartland bills itself as "the marketing arm of the free-market movement." http://www.capitalresearch.org/search/orgdisplay.asp?Org=HEA100

The Heartland Institute created a website in the Spring of 2007, www.globalwarmingheartland.org, which asserts there is no scientific consensus on global warming and features a list of experts and a list of like-minded think tanks, many of whom have received funding from ExxonMobil and other polluters.
The Heartland Institute networks heavily with other conservative policy organizations, and is part of the State Policy Network





this guy has political agendas to support, not scientific ones.  come up with a more creditable source when you come out of your gassed filled garage.  lol 




rapala11 -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/5/2008 3:49:47 PM)

jon e...how about this.  you throw one biased link out and i will counter it with another.  we can spend days filling up this site with these.  but in the end you have to admit that there are adverse changes taking place involving our climate, our environment and our long term health.  i have read your posts and your are far too intelligent to deny it. 




ROCKHARD -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/5/2008 7:56:37 PM)

rap,, since it is a conservative who put this out, you say its bull,, what about gore and other left wing thinkers who push other way, they are right in your mind,, your exhaust in a garage, well that is extreme,,thats like saying put your head in a plastic bag,and see how long you live,,should we stop breathing,,, who determines what is our optimal living conditions and climate,al gore or his scientists who are payed by his backers, no one knows what or how these changes are coming about,, thats a fact by most reputable scientist,, no bias, before we give up our freedom of life,i think we should have some kind of proof




ROCKHARD -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/5/2008 7:59:36 PM)

i also debunk national health care,,doesnt work,look at countries who tried it,,canada for one,, shortage on care,long waits for life saving surgery, shortage of physicians, short supply of prescription drugs,,list goes on,,, we need affordable heath care not a govt run system




gobyking -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/5/2008 8:31:28 PM)

I have to agree with all of you.Yeah,I'm probably going to kill the thread with this but......No one knows what the futures holds.Is this current rise in temperature a normal cyclical uptick,or is it in direct association with the greenhouse gases being emitted? I think it is a little of both,no one knowing what the outcome will be.Hell yes we all want clean air and water.

Just to show the power of our collective minds here on planet Earth,the so-called ozone hole is now gone and you haven't heard anything about it for years.Guess that new freon we're using is working for the better.Did they know it would work,no way.The guessed back then that the hole may continually be there every year for decades and may have even gotten bigger.They didn't know,just like now we don't know on this subject.

Our regulations are very strict compared to Chinas,they only have 1/6th of the planets population and the most polluted river,city,air,etc.You can go on and on.Take that into consideration,we just don't know what the future holds.




Inukshuk -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/5/2008 9:48:05 PM)

You are right goby, we dont know what the future holds, however, we do have the intelligence and ability to give ourselves the best chance of free and happy living in the future.  So, as some have already suggested on this thread, why not do what is best for ourselves and those that come after us.  If that means limiting CO2 emissions then so be it.




gobyking -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/5/2008 10:46:19 PM)

Inukshuk,I totally agree.Just don't want to play politics on who is to blame.Remember a long time ago every thought asbestos was a great new invention to install in buildings.Times change and thinking changes.We are on the right track,just need time to figure it out and get everyone in the world on board with scientists and the POSSIBILITY of good results from intelligent thinking.It is going to be a hard road to convince China to go even remotely close to our laws concerning the environment.




rapala11 -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/5/2008 10:49:05 PM)

this gift, this planet is not just for us.  we have to be good stewards as we pass it on to future generations.  right now, i don't think we are doing too well.  cancers, fish advisories, smog advisories, melting polar ice, and so on.  we need to make changes, even libs and conservatives.  al gore may be different, but i will believe him before i believe this guy. 




gobyking -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/5/2008 11:06:44 PM)

I wonder why PGHMARTY never chimes in on any of this political stuff,he seems to be very intelligent.Marty,care to comment?




pghmarty -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/5/2008 11:29:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gobyking

I wonder why PGHMARTY never chimes in on any of this political stuff,he seems to be very intelligent.Marty,care to comment?

I worked in bars and clubs long enough to know not to debate politics or religion.
And only some sports!

This is more about science than politics and I don't have much of an opinion on the subject.
Some experts say it is just part of a cycle while others say it is from the depleted ozone.
I tend to believe both sides.
All I know for sure is that I only used the snow blower last winter twice-or was it three times[:D]

In current winters it is a waste of time to fight the ice and snow.
Wait 3 days and the temp will be in the mid 40's and all of the stores will have milk and bread again.[8|]




ROCKHARD -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 9:35:49 AM)

i agree with alot of what was just mentioned,,no one knows for sure, i just aint willing to give up my freedoms of living my life,just because someone says we are the blame,,, better prove it first,,, al gore,bush and obama,mccain also,are all globalist,tight in with the world elite,, for yrs these world elitist have been trying to make two sectors ,the haves and have nots,, were they can control all life activities thru their money,power,and global policies,,, conspiracy theory,maybe, but look at all the global policies being pumped out daily to restrict our lifestyles,, not just here but worldwide,, ever see al gores house,,, he consumes more energy in one month than 260 homes in a winter,, dont sound like a enviromental friendly person to me.




jon_e_si -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 10:37:07 AM)

I learned as a young lad in school that we (mammals actually) breathe in oxygen and exhale carbon dioxide, and that plants breathe in carbon dioxide and exhale oxygen - not a bad relationship!

On the other hand, the internal combustion engine (our cars, trucks, boats, lawnmowers, atv's, planes, etc. -we all love to drive) is a great source of carbon monoxide harmful to both man and beast and plant life. (Surely you wouldn't want Rock & me to enclose ourselves in a garage and breathe what we know is harmful!! ???)

During the so-called oil crises in the 70's, it was readily apparent that the wealthy would have all the fuel they needed, while the masses have to scrimp, save, make do the best they can - similar situation that we have now! Gore espoused $5.00/gallon gas, which no doubt will have it's desired effect!

The oil/gas reserves are there, but need to be developed economically. The "powers that be" in Washington (& Statehouses), again both sides of the aisle are the prime deterrents to a sensible and forward looking energy goal! If they need more $ for the cost of living, etc. they vote themselves a raise or increased mileage fee or per diem fee or what the hell all three!! Like Ted Kennedy says, "we have the best system money can buy"

The person with minimal or near minimal wage does not have this luxury! I, too, feel we need to "unemploy" more of those in Washington & the Statehouses. Unfortunately, the problem won't be cured in this election and will probably take several more to cure! We can start sending the message though! Listen to what Newt says:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UOpcPfAarjY




rapala11 -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 10:56:21 AM)

aw, good ol newt, mr. lipservice.  while investigating will bill, he was involved in his own little mess.  no....give us someone else that can speak for all of us.




rapala11 -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 10:57:05 AM)

btw. doen't breathe the gas...........don't drink the water..........etc..........lol 




lhazlett -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 11:03:07 AM)

Just my take. Can anyone say that the earth has not been changing since the begining of its time?  Or can anyone say that what is happening now is not the earths normal path? I agree that it's like fishing when it comes to what you do to the world, if i see trash floating in the water it goes in my trash at home ..But i do not buy into this we are killing the earth..Its all meant to come to an end someday anyhow even if it's when the sun burns out..Change is always going to happen and if you dont change well i guess you become extinct.
..




rapala11 -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 11:06:51 AM)

guess those ph.ds that taught me were all wrong.




S-10 -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 12:20:11 PM)

Liberal Arts?[;)]




rapala11 -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 1:07:49 PM)

[:D]biology




spoonchucker -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 3:26:11 PM)

"Gore espoused $5.00/gallon gas, which no doubt will have it's desired effect!"

Actually editorial writer Charles Krauthammer, ( HARDLY a liberal voice ) recently advocated the same basic thing.

The basic premise is to find the price point were people will dramatically alter consumption rates. Then set let the Govt. set the price AT that rate through taxation, rather than let the oil industry do it through increased profiteering. This way rather than the money going to OPEC, or others, it goes to AMERICAN coffers, and can fund tax cuits in other areas, and fund research into alternatives. He put it in more eloquent, and comprehensive terms, than can I. I'll try again to find the article online, but have been unable thus far. 




rapala11 -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 3:37:54 PM)




At $4, Everybody Gets Rational
June 9th, 2008 Posted By Pat Dollard.
[image]http://patdollard.com/wp-content/uploads/gas.jpg[/image]
I’m posting this Krauthammer editorial due to this report coming out today that states:
Oil seen hitting $150 this summer.
(Reuters) - Oil prices are likely to hit $150 a barrel this summer season, the global head of commodities research at Goldman Sachs said on Monday, as tighter supplies outweigh weakening demand.
What is America going to do when we are paying 5.00 or 6.00 per gallon?? Because diesel fuel is already past the 5.00 mark here in California.

Washington Post
By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, June 6, 2008;
So now we know: The price point is $4.
At $3 a gallon, Americans just grin and bear it, suck it up and, while complaining profusely, keep driving like crazy. At $4, it is a world transformed. Americans become rational creatures. Mass transit ridership is at a 50-year high. Driving is down 4 percent. (Any U.S. decline is something close to a miracle.) Hybrids and compacts are flying off the lots. SUV sales are in free fall.
The wholesale flight from gas guzzlers is stunning in its swiftness, but utterly predictable. Everything has a price point. Remember that “love affair” with SUVs? Love, it seems, has its price too.
America’s sudden change in car-buying habits makes suitable mockery of that absurd debate Congress put on last December on fuel efficiency standards. At stake was precisely what miles-per-gallon average would every car company’s fleet have to meet by precisely what date.
It was one out-of-a-hat number (35 mpg) compounded by another (by 2020). It involved, as always, dozens of regulations, loopholes and throws at a dartboard. And we already knew from past history what the fleet average number does. When oil is cheap and everybody wants a gas guzzler, fuel efficiency standards force manufacturers to make cars that nobody wants to buy. When gas prices go through the roof, this agent of inefficiency becomes an utter redundancy.
At $4 a gallon, the fleet composition is changing spontaneously and overnight, not over the 13 years mandated by Congress. (Even Stalin had the modesty to restrict himself to five-year plans.) Just Tuesday, GM announced that it would shutter four SUV and truck plants, add a third shift to its compact and midsize sedan plants in Ohio and Michigan, and green-light for 2010 the Chevy Volt, an electric hybrid.
Some things, like renal physiology, are difficult. Some things, like Arab-Israeli peace, are impossible. And some things are preternaturally simple. You want more fuel-efficient cars? Don’t regulate. Don’t mandate. Don’t scold. Don’t appeal to the better angels of our nature. Do one thing: Hike the cost of gas until you find the price point.
Unfortunately, instead of hiking the price ourselves by means of a gasoline tax that could be instantly refunded to the American people in the form of lower payroll taxes, we let the Saudis, Venezuelans, Russians and Iranians do the taxing for us — and pocket the money that the tax would have recycled back to the American worker.
This is insanity. For 25 years and with utter futility (starting with “The Oil-Bust Panic,” the New Republic, February 1983), I have been advocating the cure: a U.S. energy tax as a way to curtail consumption and keep the money at home. On this page in May 2004 (and again in November 2005), I called for “the government — through a tax — to establish a new floor for gasoline,” by fully taxing any drop in price below a certain benchmark. The point was to suppress demand and to keep the savings (from any subsequent world price drop) at home in the U.S. Treasury rather than going abroad. At the time, oil was $41 a barrel. It is now $123.
But instead of doing the obvious — tax the damn thing — we go through spasms of destructive alternatives, such as efficiency standards, ethanol mandates and now a crazy carbon cap-and-trade system the Senate is debating this week. These are infinitely complex mandates for inefficiency and invitations to corruption. But they have a singular virtue: They hide the cost to the American consumer.
Want to wean us off oil? Be open and honest. The British are paying $8 a gallon for petrol. Goldman Sachs is predicting we will be paying $6 by next year. Why have the extra $2 (above the current $4) go abroad? Have it go to the U.S. Treasury as a gasoline tax and be recycled back into lower payroll taxes.
Announce a schedule of gas tax hikes of 50 cents every six months for the next two years. And put a tax floor under $4 gasoline, so that as high gas prices transform the U.S. auto fleet, change driving habits and thus hugely reduce U.S. demand — and bring down world crude oil prices — the American consumer and the American economy reap all of the benefit.
Herewith concludes my annual exercise




rapala11 -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 3:39:23 PM)

for those who don't know, mr. krauthammer is a regular contributor to fox news and sits in with the beltway boys.  definately not a liberal or al gore supporter.  




spoonchucker -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 3:42:14 PM)

And I just found it too. Thanks Rap.




ROCKHARD -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 5:41:15 PM)

al gore ,and his global warming buddies have been ,for a few yrs,,even obama more recently admitted he wanted higher fuel prices,,, he said he just didnt think that quick,,,, profits ,oil co. make are not extreme,,8%,, one of the lowest of all business,,, they just have large demand on their product, in turn sell more of it,,, dont look at dollars,go by percentage,,, no other business out there work for under 9 to 10 %,,, govt makes 2x what oil does per gal.,,,cant believe you spoon ,when you are for taxation to feed govt spending,,, krauthammer isnt stating nothing that already is known,,, i take his view as drill here for our own fuel now,,not giving to these oil rich nations,who are extracting our tax dollars,,,




tippy-toe -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 8:25:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rapala11

this gift, this planet is not just for us.  we have to be good stewards as we pass it on to future generations.  right now, i don't think we are doing too well.  cancers, fish advisories, smog advisories, melting polar ice, and so on.  we need to make changes, even libs and conservatives.  al gore may be different, but i will believe him before i believe this guy. 


Oh God...not this topic again...

Rap, well said.

We have the responsibility as the apex species on this planet to make as small of a footprint as we can....




LDD -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 8:46:14 PM)

Yeah, I agree Tippy...no matter which side you're on...talk about barking up the wrong tree...
Really, what's the point??  Again???[image]http://forums.fishusa.com/micons/m15.gif[/image]  If you want to know what the truth is...follow the science...the science that is UNPAID to come up with a study. 

I read some interesting thoughts lately on the heritage that we will leave.  Make your choices, live what you believe.  Leave your own personal heritage and lead by example. 




LDD -> RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! (7/6/2008 8:50:37 PM)

One other thing Jonesi...if you're going to bring this topic up, bring some real science to the table, not another ridiculously blatant opinion piece thought up by some conservative hack to spin the already true believers into an even more intense "SSSSPPIIIN"
...the only crowd this is convincing is the crowd the stands at the pump filling their SUV and actually believes that more drilling will bring down the cost of gas.  If you stand at the pump and believe that the oil companies want to drill more to bring gas prices down for you, you'll also believe that the world will be a nicer, more hospitable place if we artificially influnence the envrionment.
Look up the Greening Society...they're a nice conservative group that wouldn't mind the world warming up and having millions and millions of the world's poor, who live in low lying areas of Indonesia, Thailand and India, displaced and dying. 




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