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RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/8/2008 8:07:28 PM   
pappy69


Posts: 359
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: online 		Rockhard, in order to get someone to believe you, you need to cite the sources of your statements. Then, readers can verify your findings.

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Post #: 61
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/8/2008 8:22:22 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		"most scientist (majority) work off federal grants and funding, which puts their findings in the political arena,"

And a Republican run administration awarded those grants for 6 of the past 7 years. HMMM.

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Post #: 62
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/8/2008 8:41:44 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1572
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: online 		Spoon--don't suppose I could convince you to cut 3-4 trips to Erie so I don't have to--purtty please

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 63
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/8/2008 8:52:03 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		S-10

At this point, I would normally have made at least six trips to Erie for walleye, and 1-2 trips to Ontario for kings. I have made ONE trip to Erie, and NONE to Ontario. None of my Steelheading trips were solo this year, as opposed to several in previous years, and several were co-odrdinated with other reasons to go there. I've even done alot more shore fishing on Arthur ( 5 miles from my home ), than I have taken the boat.

You're welcome

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Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

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Post #: 64
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/8/2008 8:56:38 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1572
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: online 		Thanks-I take back half the nasty things I've said about you. Now, about that gas money you've saved=====You don't suppose

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 65
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 9:12:08 AM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		spoon,balanced budget ammendment,i agree with neither bush,,,,reagan,i would disagree with you,, term limits,i feel both parties lost out and voted down on that,,,i agree with line item veto,,, see spoon ,i to am for all these,, as far as newts marital problems,well ,we dont know circumstances,, besides,im sure others in washington arent still on original marriage,, hell,clinton had fun in the whitehouse,, was told by madia and his party ,had nothing to do with his politics,,,,heard just tonite at work,,GERMAN SCIENTISTS, now saying to the contrary of gore and company,that increased carbon dioxide and greenhouse gases are actually beneficial to the growth of plant life on earth, studies show more greener plants ,a 10% higher yield in veg.and fruit output,,,also stated no one can say for sure what optimal temp is for life on earth,,,,, now ,my opinion, what do the enviros do now ,knowing that we want to stop plant growth with our global warming issues, tough decession for them now, great to be a tree hugger,,,also , a global petition debunker,going around the scientific community,where 31,000 top rated scientist have signed ,stating climate change and warming are not from mankinds usage of natural resources,,,,see,no one  saying there is no change in climate,its whats causing it to change,,,

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 66
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 9:15:33 AM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		spoon and s10,,why dont we all get together this fall and cut our expenses to erie,,,i promise no politics while fishing,, now on ride up and back,no comment

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 67
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 9:16:12 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		"global petition debunker,going around the scientific community,where 31,000 top rated scientist have signed ,stating climate change and warming are not from mankinds usage of natural resources,,,,


provide a link to your source.

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Post #: 68
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 9:31:09 AM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1572
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: online 		Rapala11----Type in (global petition debunker )on the net. There is a whole host of articles on just that.

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Post #: 69
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 9:40:23 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		gee.........

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Post #: 70
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 9:40:57 AM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		i heard it on a late nite talk show,rap,, but try s10 advice

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Post #: 71
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 9:41:20 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		did find this on the first site:







EPA Official: Cheney Wanted Climate Report Altered






Tuesday, July 8, 2008 2:22 PM


Article Font Size  




Vice President Dick Cheney's office pushed for major deletions in congressional testimony on the public health consequences of climate change, fearing the presentation by a leading health official might make it harder to avoid regulating greenhouse gases, a former EPA official maintains.

When six pages were cut from testimony on climate change and public health by the head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention last October, the White House insisted the changes were made because of reservations raised by White House advisers about the accuracy of the science.

But Jason K. Burnett, until last month the senior adviser on climate change to Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Stephen Johnson, says that Cheney's office was deeply involved in getting nearly half of the CDC's original draft testimony removed.

"The Council on Environmental Quality and the office of the vice president were seeking deletions to the CDC testimony (concerning) ... any discussions of the human health consequences of climate change," Burnett has told the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

The three-page letter, a response to an inquiry by Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., the panel's chairwoman, was obtained Tuesday by The Associated Press. Boxer planned a news conference later in the day.

Burnett, 31, a lifelong Democrat who resigned his post last month as associate deputy EPA administrator because of disagreements over the agency's response to climate change, describes deep political concerns at the White House, including in Cheney's office, about linking climate change directly to public health or damage to the environment.

Scientists believe manmade pollution is warming the earth and if the process is not reversed it will cause significant climate changes that pose broad public health problems from increases in disease to more injuries from severe weather.

Senate and House committees have been trying for months to get e-mail exchanges and other documents to determine the extent of political influence on government scientists, but have been rebuffed.

The letter by Burnett for the first time suggests that Cheney's office was deeply involved in downplaying the impacts of climate change as related to public health and welfare, Senate investigators believe.

Cheney's office also objected last January over congressional testimony by Administrator Johnson that "greenhouse gas emissions harm the environment."

An official in Cheney's office "called to tell me that his office wanted the language changed" with references to climate change harming the environment deleted, Burnett said. Nevertheless, the phrase was left in Johnson's testimony.

Cheney's office and the White House Council on Environmental Quality worried that if key health officials provided detailed testimony about global warming's consequences on public health or the environment, it could make it more difficult to avoid regulating carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases, Burnett believes.

The EPA currently is examining whether carbon dioxide, a leading greenhouse gas, poses a danger to public health and welfare. The Supreme Court has said if it does, it must be regulated under the Clean Air Act.

Nowhere were these White House concerns more apparent than when CDC Director Julie Gerberding, the head of the government's premier public health watchdog, testified about climate change and public health before Boxer's committee last October. The White House deleted six of the original 14 pages of Gerberding's testimony, including a list of likely public health impacts of global warming.

The White House, at the urging of Cheney's office, "requested that I work with CDC to remove from the testimony any discussion of the human health consequences of climate change," wrote Burnett.

"CEQ contacted me to argue that I could best keep options open for the (EPA) administrator (on regulating carbon dioxide) if I would convince CDC to delete particular sections of their testimony," Burnett said in the letter to Boxer.

But he said he refused to press CDC on the deletions because he believed the CDC's draft testimony was "fundamentally accurate

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Post #: 72
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 9:48:09 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		okay...here is where we are at....thousands of international scientists from many countries so it is so.........31000 from our country (the biggest user and polluter) say it aint.

um, your president bush, in japan this week, says it is so (now).  he wants china and india on board to help curb the warming trend.

all i know is that the air we breathe, and the water we drink is pretty polluted.  there are whole lakes that can no longer sustain fish life due to acid rain (dirty fossil fuel induced).  our coral reefs where a lot of our edible fish come from are dying (news this week).  something is wrong and the deterioration is happening at an accelerated rate.  we are not the only generation using this rock and it was put here for future generations also, but we have not been good stewards of our gifts.

if minds are so closed that one must take a political stand on everything, i would venture to say that we are in serious trouble as a nation and as a specie. 

adios

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..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 73
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 9:48:18 AM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		Cheney's office and the White House Council on Environmental Quality worried that if key health officials provided detailed testimony about global warming's consequences on public health or the environment, it could make it more difficult to avoid regulating carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases, Burnett believes.

The EPA currently is examining whether carbon dioxide, a leading greenhouse gas, poses a danger to public health and welfare. The Supreme Court has said if it does, it must be regulated under the Clean Air Act.                                                                                                                                                                                                          rap,i see that,but read why, this is still an opinion by a health official,no fact,,that could scare people into believing it, and being forced upon us

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Post #: 74
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 9:48:31 AM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1572
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: online 		(did find this on the first site)---I don't think so

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Post #: 75
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 9:54:38 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		i think so........i googled as you said, and the first entry was www. news max.  i read the article and then this was also posted on the website.  i may have faults, but i will not lie.

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silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 76
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 9:55:21 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		groan

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Post #: 77
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 10:06:13 AM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1572
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: online 		Don't know about google---I just click on msn and type it in. may be why some folks have had trouble finding other articles. just don't know.

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 78
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 10:08:51 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		repeating...............

all i know is that the air we breathe, and the water we drink is pretty polluted.  there are whole lakes that can no longer sustain fish life due to acid rain (dirty fossil fuel induced).  our coral reefs where a lot of our edible fish come from are dying (news this week).  something is wrong and the deterioration is happening at an accelerated rate.  we are not the only generation using this rock and it was put here for future generations also, but we have not been good stewards of our gifts.

if minds are so closed that one must take a political stand on everything, i would venture to say that we are in serious trouble as a nation and as a specie. 

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to S-10)
Post #: 79
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 10:29:47 AM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1572
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: online 		Won't argue with a thing you said. Al Gore (the inventer of the internet) and the Calif enviromentalists put out a movie supported by many scientists saying global warming was serious and man made---There was a competing movie put out, supported by many scientists saying it is a hoax and supporting it with their version of the truth. Now both sides are blasting each other. Forgetting the ones on each side with vested interests in their adgenda there are enough credible scientists that disagree to make this ignorant laymen not willing to take a position. I do know this---I don't like breathing or drinking anyones pollution and believe we should make affordable changes to reduce that from happening. The more serious problem is how to deal with the real problem which is overpopulation.

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 80
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 12:20:17 PM   
Inukshuk


Posts: 1393
Joined: 2/11/2007
Status: offline 		"GERMAN SCIENTISTS, now saying to the contrary of gore and company,that increased carbon dioxide and greenhouse gases are actually beneficial to the growth of plant life on earth, studies show more greener plants ,a 10% higher yield in veg.and fruit output,,,also stated no one can say for sure what optimal temp is for life on earth,,,,, "

Rock, I read an article in SEED magazine that stated the opposite.  Over a 12 year period, research scientists living in the tropical rain forest found the increase in global temperatures actually slows the rate of photosynthesis and ultimately having a positive feedback of CO2 emissions into the atmoshpere. 
It is in regions like the tropical rainforests, oceans, great barrier reefs and polar ice caps that global warming has the most severe affects, and can do the most damage to the planet.
I dont buy into the argument that global warming has a positive affect on the planet.

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 81
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 12:45:00 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		spent an afternoon at the rain forest in the cleveland zoo, and every exhibit mentioned that a specific specie or it's environment is threatened by climate changes.  inuk, this just adds credence to what you said.



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silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 82
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 12:56:50 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		THe greatest, most immediate threat to the rain forest, is cutting. Now doubt, there is a need for a relatively high level of preservation. But how do you tell a poor, and starving people, that their greatest, and perhaps only resource is off limits? It's a very tough balance.

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Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 83
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 1:09:33 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1572
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: online 		Global warming--global cooling = each has both positive and negative effects on plant and animal life. Scientists use the latest computer modeling to try and predict the effects. Problem is  our information and modeling programs are new developments and are constantly being changed as more data becomes available. In the mid 70's they predicted a global cooling. When the people who are the experts can't all agree I guess It's not surprising the rest of us can't.

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Post #: 84
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 1:16:49 PM   
Inukshuk


Posts: 1393
Joined: 2/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: S-10

Global warming--global cooling = each has both positive and negative effects on plant and animal life. Scientists use the latest computer modeling to try and predict the effects. Problem is  our information and modeling programs are new developments and are constantly being changed as more data becomes available. In the mid 70's they predicted a global cooling. When the people who are the experts can't all agree I guess It's not surprising the rest of us can't.


The information I gave did not use modeling but data collected from the Rainforest over a 12 year period, but, I understand your point. 
As far as global cooling, the scientist who suggested this, retracted his theory shortly after suggesting it.  The rest was just hype!  I dont think it is a valid example.

(in reply to S-10)
Post #: 85
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 1:22:52 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		seems as though john mccain recognizes the impact that fossil fuel emissions have on the environment and plans to act on it if elected.

< Message edited by rapala11 -- 7/9/2008 1:26:58 PM >

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Post #: 86
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 1:25:24 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1572
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: online 		If you like to read a lot go on msn and type in (benefits of global warming) there are back to back Wikipedia papers comparing the cost/benefit of global warming. In a nutshell the experts they quote seem to think them about equal. It's a lot of reading but covers the topic fairly well.

(in reply to Inukshuk)
Post #: 87
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/9/2008 5:39:40 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		that 31,000 scientist, i tried post it here,,, go to yahoo,31000 scientist debunk global warming,,,, its a newsmax story from  may 2008

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Post #: 88
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/10/2008 12:40:20 PM   
gonefishin

 

Posts: 464
Joined: 4/30/2001
Status: offline 		Krauthammer had it right the other night if you saw him.   Global warming is pure speculation and will be until proven otherwise.   Isn't it odd how people with $30K per year salaries that purchased $300K homes were called homebuyers (all parties involved somehow believing home prices always go up).   People that bought homes with no intention of living in them and intended to flip them for a profit (again because home prices always go up---NOT) were called real estate investors.  Some people that promote global warming are called scientists.  People that invest in the commodity oil believing the future price will go up are called dirty, rotten speculators.  Why are they not all called speculators?  

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 89
RE: Let's talk about "global warming"!! - 7/10/2008 1:02:15 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		Global warming is pure speculation?????????????????

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Post #: 90
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