RE: duh....the white house finally admits....

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/5/2008 10:01:06 AM

ROCKHARD

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greenhouse gas,,, it all depends on what you read,, now that is all speculation,,, put 20 scientist in a room,,, you will have close to a split on the ruling,,, we gonna stop the natural decay of plants,we gonna stop volcano eruptions,,, mother nature will hold its on,,been doing so for a billion yrs,, not disputing what you learned in school,, but i read to,,the earth is always spewing gases,,, unless you are talking thousands of yrs from now,, but we have no alternative right yet,, what we gonna do, hole up in our house like little mice, till something comes along

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/5/2008 10:16:58 AM

rapala11

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not speculation....fact. the disagreement is on how fast we are damaging our environment. even bush admits that there is global warming.

tell you what, stand in a room with car exhaust pumping into it. wait about an hour and see if nickle sulfide and other gasses have an adverse effect on your health. remember those scientists of whom you speak and their discrediting of greenhouse gas effects as you breathe those gasses. it is basically a very simple theory to understand. and it is most accepted by the scientific community, save those who work for energy companies.

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/5/2008 12:36:38 PM

spoonchucker

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One key acknowledgment in the article, is that drilling in ANWR is unlikely to have a significant impact on prices. It WILL give the oil industry, and it's investors an opportunity to make more money. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it will delay the needed transformation from dependence on THEIR product. Good for them, bad for us.

On a side note Rock. Remember those leases we talked about earlier. You know, the ones that the evil Dems tricked big oil into seeking, and signing, but where "unusable". I read yesterday, that all of the sudden they find them very usable NOW that oil is at $145, an are starting to tap some of them. Imagine that.

Oh, and they may be able to drill at that rate, but they still have to develope the site, and get equipment ( of which there are some shortages ) ( why your business is probabley doing well ) up there, and develope a system ( port, pipeline, or both ) to transport the oil, AND equipment.

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/5/2008 12:46:25 PM

spoonchucker

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When the population of a species, and it's activities, excedes the capacity of their enviroment, nature reduces their numbers. WE have developed the capacity to circumvent many of these natural corrections, at least temporarily. Somewhere along the line though, it WILL catch up to us, unless we make our own corrections. It is unlikely that WE can, or at least will, correct our population expnasion. So it is our behavior that must be correct, or nature will eventually correct the population. Perhaps dramatically.

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/5/2008 2:00:14 PM

jonnyfishon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: spoonchucker

When the population of a species, and it's activities, excedes the capacity of their enviroment, nature reduces their numbers. WE have developed the capacity to circumvent many of these natural corrections, at least temporarily. Somewhere along the line though, it WILL catch up to us, unless we make our own corrections. It is unlikely that WE can, or at least will, correct our population expnasion. So it is our behavior that must be correct, or nature will eventually correct the population. Perhaps dramatically.

It already has. War(natural?) earthquakes, tsunamies, floods, hurricains, ect. They are also more frequent and more deadly considering we are better able to protect ourselfs with technology and better structures. Unless we send the DEC to china,India,ect there is very little we could do. All we can do is the best we can. Dont smoke a whole pack, just 3/4. It will still kill you but you might live 5 years longer.

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/5/2008 6:15:04 PM

ROCKHARD

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yes spoon,,they are untapping,not much choice,,cant wait 30 yrs for some so called alternative full,can we,,,, congress wants big oil to seek alternative fuel,,stupidity,,, ford isnt going to find a new way to build a chevy,,, a dentist isnt going to discover a new way for heart surgery,,,, in a room full of exhaust, little different than out in the open,,, technology on emissions has come a long way,,, jonny, these disasters are mainly due to sun spot activity,,its a cycle that happens, some a hundred yrs ,some thousands of yrs,, we cant stop them unless you shut down the sun,,, that is a big thing in this climate control farce, you got countries with no control and then you have ones under strict control,,, cant work that way,,, sounds like our govt, you stay home and we will pay you ,while they go to work and pay us for you,,, spoon, still wont take 7 yrs,, 1 yr yes,,,, didnt trick them into these leases, just short term leases, takes that long to get the required permits to drill,,, lot of beuracracy in this game,,,

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/5/2008 6:49:01 PM

jonnyfishon

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Rock, I did not realize you were a scientist. Its funny how you say put 20 scientist in a room and they would be split on global warming. So if they arent sure, you are. No one really knows the effects people are having on the enviorment . Im sure scientist would argue about sun spots as well. Id like OUR country to CLEAN up OUR air,land,and water that I breath,eat,and drink from. Its the very least they can do.

I almost forgot
F-BUSH

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Post #: 37

RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/5/2008 7:42:37 PM

ROCKHARD

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i think we already do that jonny,,, we have recovered many waterways that were polluted just 30 yrs ago,,,no jonny ,i am not sure as you stated in your statement,, the problem is, no long term data to show either way,, we hear about carbon footprints in the air,, well should we quite exhaling, we put out carbon every breath,,, earth is warming bs, actually the oceans show opposite,they actually cooled over last few decades,, no one doubts climate change in whole,,its wether its caused by humans and their lifestyles,,every problem is not bush related, no one man can destroy a world economy,, its a flurry of events that went on world wide,,

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/5/2008 10:52:40 PM

rapala11

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no one said it was bush. this has been a known fact since the 60s. man, you say you didn't vote for him last time and say his policies have failed, and all you do is defend him. what is your agenda, rock?

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Post #: 39

RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/6/2008 12:21:38 AM

spoonchucker

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",,,, and spoon,, them leases you mentioned,are 8 yr lease,takes up to 7 yrs to get all permits ok'ed,, they have a yr to drill ,,"

Your response on why they were not drilling on leases they already have.

NOW your reponse on how long it would take to start pumping from ANWR.

",,, spoon, still wont take 7 yrs,, 1 yr yes,,,, "

Which is it?

< Message edited by spoonchucker -- 7/6/2008 12:40:01 AM >

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/6/2008 12:38:44 AM

spoonchucker

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" jonny, these disasters are mainly due to sun spot activity,,its a cycle that happens, some a hundred yrs ,some thousands of yrs,, "

Wrong, sun spot activity is at an 11 year low, and not increasing.

"Although periods of inactivity are normal for the sun, this current period has gone on much longer than usual and scientists are starting to worry—at least a little bit. Recently 100 scientists from Europe, Asia, Latin America, Africa and North America gathered to discuss the issue at an international solar conference at Montana State University. Today's sun is as inactive as it was two years ago, and solar physicists don’t have a clue as to why.
"It continues to be dead," said Saku Tsuneta with the National Astronomical Observatory of Japan, program manager for the Hinode solar mission, noting that it is at least a little bit worrisome for scientists.
Dana Longcope, a solar physicist at MSU, said the sun usually operates on an 11-year cycle with maximum activity occurring in the middle of the cycle. The last cycle reached its peak in 2001 and is believed to be just ending now, Longcope said. The next cycle is just beginning and is expected to reach its peak sometime around 2012. But so far nothing is happening."

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/6/2008 12:43:37 AM

gobyking

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Well,if we are blaming sunspots on these occurances,we might as well blame the Loch Ness Monster,Bigfoot,and the evil Chupacabra.

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/6/2008 12:48:05 AM

spoonchucker

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"earth is warming bs, actually the oceans show opposite,they actually cooled over last few decades,"

MELTING ice, CHILLS water.,

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/6/2008 9:19:47 AM

ROCKHARD

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melting ice, that is cyclable to ,spoon,,, about your response on my statement,,, the leases they have are set to expire,unless renewed no time to drill,,,as far as anwr and outer shelf,,govt can fast track these permits in emergency situations,,, but congress right now doesnt and hasnt felt 4.00/gal is an emergency ,,to you and me it is,,, with enviro permits,safety permits, equipment permits,took as long to get those as they had the lease for,,, govt needs to get off their high horse and bypass all these permits,, get drilling and worry about permits later,,,thats my statement spoon,,,isnt it funny tho ,spoon ,scientist arent blaming cooler oceans on melting ice but air temp,,, no agenda rap,, you all have a mindset of blaming one man,,,i am not defending him,but looking at all involved in this mess,,,

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/6/2008 11:00:10 AM

rapala11

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again, global warming occurred long before he was in office. i blame him for iraq and the continuance of trade policies that have hurt our country. and for being not so bright.....read my posts.

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Post #: 45

RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/6/2008 2:55:05 PM

spoonchucker

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"the leases they have are set to expire,unless renewed no time to drill,,,"

Then why are they now starting to drill on them?

Answer: Oil is $145 per barrel, not $85.

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/6/2008 2:58:19 PM

rapala11

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i once believed in supply and demand, but now it has a third member.....greed. case in point, they just drilled natural gas wells at different sights around my house. all of these were immediately capped. waiting for the price to go up?

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/6/2008 5:45:12 PM

ROCKHARD

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rap, i dont believe they waiting for price to go up,,,those are more or less a winter time surplus,,no big demand right now for natural gas,,,

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/7/2008 5:36:17 PM

jon_e_si

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Might be waiting for pipeline to send it to market! Demand does go down in summer. I have some friends with wells and that usually happens in the warmer months!

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/7/2008 7:07:17 PM

jonnyfishon

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Jon what do your friends make off the well yearly? My buddy has 80+acres and is signing up with the coalition in a week for 3400$per acre(5 year lease) and 15% of the well(if they drill and produce). Just curious.

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/7/2008 7:17:01 PM

S-10

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That sounds more like a lease for deep well gas drilling. For years oil wells were little or nothing up front and 12 1/2% royalty on the oil.

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/7/2008 7:22:45 PM

ROCKHARD

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yea ,i think it depends on who is doing the drilling,,,contracts vary,,, there is a farm in venango county,making roughly 13,000 a month,, not sure how many wells are there...

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/7/2008 7:28:13 PM

jon_e_si

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I don't really know - never asked, but one commented several (6-8) years ago that so far he had made about $50,000.00 on that well (which would get shut-in in the summertime)! At today's prices, I'm sure he's made considerably more! $3400.00/acre rental sounds astounding to me - probably way more per acre than they paid for it. It's like finding the money if they never do a thing with it, but for those kinds of bucks your friend stands to make some good money. One of the pluses for what we're paying at the pump now!

Mathmatically, (this is hypothetical) if it costs $1,000,000.00 to drill a well, the lessee is expecting to re-coup their investment and then some, so 15% of $1,000,000.00 is $150,000.00 - not a bad return for starters. There are many variables in wells, geology, company objectives so it's hard to be more specific. Just don't spend the $$$ before he gets it!! lol

By the way what and where is the "coalition"??

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/7/2008 7:30:36 PM

jonnyfishon

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My buddy sits on a good area in nys . The shale is about 3000 to 4000 feet below his land and about 100 or so feet thick. Ideal for drilling. He is also 1/4 mile from a pipeline. The lease alone is kick ass money. But a producing well would be better for him. There was a big land grab in pa and ohio as well. How are those people making out?

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/7/2008 7:40:26 PM

ROCKHARD

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there are different deals also on the product,,, nat. gas wells are bought by cu/ft,,, there are houses with nat. gas wells, that not only get a royalty but also are supplied with free gas,,, where as many run nat gas lighting to cut back on there electric usage,,

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/7/2008 7:40:53 PM

jonnyfishon

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The coalitions is in chenego county ny. Just outside of NORWICH NY. Im not sure of the name but it involves about i think 300,000 acres. Look up deposit ny which is close by, the coalition alread signed for I think 2400 an acre about a month ago. Its only going up.

A second wave of property owners are signing on to an offer now approaching $180 million for rights to lease land between Hancock and Binghamton as prospectors stake claim to mineral rights under the Southern Tier.

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The offer now on the table is part of an expanded land play by prospectors seeking natural gas. It originally included 37,000 acres and 300 property owners in eastern Broome and Western Delaware counties. That deal, for $2,411 per acre, totals $90 million plus royalties.
It has since been offered by XTO Energy to landowners in surrounding towns and matched by a competing company, members of land coalitions reported this week.
Since the deal with the Deposit group, members of groups collectively representing about 750 landowners in the towns of Windsor, Binghamton, Kirkwood, Colesville and Afton said they have been individually approached by XTO offering them the same deal as the Deposit group.
Also, Chesapeake Energy, a competing firm, has offered $2,500 per acre and 15 percent royalties for a seven-year lease, coalition organizers said.
Additional property owners are signing on to the original XTO offer, said Jackie Root, a land negotiator handling the deal.
Others are joining coalitions or waiting to see if energy companies might sweeten the pot.
Representatives from XTO and Chesapeake would not publicly discuss negotiations at this time.
The deal with the original group of 300 landowners in the Deposit area is scheduled to be signed next week in Binghamton. Root said another signing will be necessary for add-ons. “There will be a second round (of signing) and we are working out the details now,” Root said.
She would not disclose exactly how far the XTO deal extends, but the company has a clear idea of the land it wants, she said. Some people near the border but outside of the affected area may be disappointed. “I am careful about building expectations I have no control over,” she said.
Based on reports from the landowner groups, the area generally includes Binghamton to the west, Hancock to the east, Afton to the north and south through the Pennsylvania border.
The rush to stake out leasing rights over Marcellus Shale Formation, known in the industry as a land play, is unlike anything the area has seen and will significantly alter the economy of the area. Landowners with 200 acres or more living in eastern Broome County signing the XTO offer would begin receiving lump-sum payments of nearly $500,000 this year, based on information from Dewey Decker, organizer of the original group of landowners in eastern Broome and western Delaware counties. Landowners with more than 400 acres would receive nearly $1 million.
That money does not include royalties that could be paid to landowners if productive wells are developed.
The median household income is $37,000 in Broome county and $34,000 in Delaware County.
Jim Worden, coordinating a group of 250 landowners representing about 20,000 acres in Windsor, Colesville and Afton, is waiting to see if the ante will climb higher as his group continues to organize.
Right now, while the land rush is still in speculation stage, time is on their side, he said. The group is working with experts to draft leases before it entertains offers.
“We’re a few months from going to bid,” Worden said.

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RE: duh....the white house finally admits.... - 7/7/2008 7:57:46 PM

jonnyfishon

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Sorry got somewhat off topic. We are doing damage to "OUR" enviroment and you dont have to be a scientist to realize that.

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