RE: survived another scare......... (Full Version)

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rapala11 -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/5/2008 9:27:57 AM)

spoon spanks them again.............lol



ROCKHARD -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/5/2008 10:08:03 AM)

not defending bush ,but look what he had to deal with 9 months into his term,,,dont think it didnt affect the economy,,, i myself took a 6,800  dollar loss on my 401 after 9/11.... clintons numbers came 2nd term,,he tanked first term,, dick morris pushed him to center to get him re-elected,,, not making excuses spoon,, but you said look what clinton started with,,well bush had a rough start to



rapala11 -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/5/2008 10:19:03 AM)

bush had it made when he took office.  good economy, safe borders, and a stronger dollar.  he was successful though, as it looks as though he acheived all of his goals.



jonnyfishon -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/5/2008 2:11:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rapala11

bush had it made when he took office.  good economy, safe borders, and a stronger dollar.  he was successful though, as it looks as though he acheived all of his goals.

When he acheived all of his goals do you think he thought "SUCKERS"or did Cheney make him think It. F-bush



Over the Hill -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/5/2008 2:43:43 PM)

I remember a downturn in the economy just after bush got in office but before 9/11/2001. He didn't have it made.
Here's just one article. It was a smaller down turn than now, but, going down none the less.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/economy/jan-june01/economy_3-13.html 
http://www.bizwatchonline.com/Archive/May%202001/economic_downturn.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,32886,00.html

There were indicators showing it during the end of Clinton's term. Gore didn't talk about it during the campaign because he was vice president and could have been held accountable for it.

As has been said before, both parties bash an pass the trash on the other party. "Elect me and I'll fix everything", "I have a plan". I don't think anyone in any party really accomplished the majority of what they said they'll do. Lots of lipservice all around.



rapala11 -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/5/2008 3:36:30 PM)

oth, the economy goes up and down the same as crappie and grouse populations.  there can be no doubt.  a true indicator of a healthy economy would be retail sales.  i work for one of the largest retailers in the world, as an inventory control person.  i see figures and numbers daily.  when clinton (didn't care for him at all) was in the big house, we worked six and seven days a week.  today, we work four and five, with a whole shift laid off.  same store sales are dismal, at best.  bush inherited what jimmy carter inherited.  if we are going to give bush that alibi, it should also be extended to carter.

you speak of lipservice....i concur.  i think you and i have had our fill of it in the last twenty years.  guess honesty and integrity are not required to become an elected official. 



ROCKHARD -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/5/2008 5:53:03 PM)

yes, rap,, economy goes UP AND DOWN,,, no matter what administration is in charge,,, funny tho,, i read alot,, lot of proof this has been coming for a few decades,,policies clear back to rosevelt and wilson,started the change of this nation,,, the new deal,,welfare, medicare,,, all the start of big govt,spending away of our tax dollars,, now some will say, but rock,people need these programs, yes i agree,,few do,,but not the numbers that are on them,didnt have them thru the great depression, very tuff period, but people banded together and got thru it, man helping man,not the dumbing down ,making one lazy type of policies we have today,,, many steel mills closed during the 70's and 80's, many farm jobs lost, many mom/pop stores closed, many sectors took devastating hits,, well now it is manufacturing of all sorts,,retail, wholesale,airlines,, but see what it is ,is that when its not your job ,doesnt matter ,but when it hits home, the sky is falling,,, nothing new just different time and different face at the whitehouse



jonnyfishon -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/5/2008 6:59:36 PM)

nothing new just different time and different face at the whitehouse

HOLY CRAP. Nothing new. Read a little more into the last 7 years please. Is bush paying you to be blind. There is plenty new because of the different face that is in this white house. They all suck, but bush really, really, sucks. They have all failed us, but bush has really,really failed us. IF you dont believe that then you really,really need to wake up.



ROCKHARD -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/5/2008 7:30:12 PM)

jonny,do you have a solution,, if not dont comment,,, yea bushs policies suck, things are bad, but dont blame unless you spread it around,, repubs f---cked it up, along with the dems,,, things just snowballed the last 10 yrs,,, unless you are going to vote them all out and start over,where are you getting,,, do you think pelosi,reed,kennedy,kerry, dodds ,bush, cheney,and the rest,ah dont leave out mccain and obama,clinton, are filling the pain ,we talk about,, no they are living mighty well off your tax dollar,,,no matter how bad the economy is they dont cut there lifestyle,do they,, 



S-10 -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/5/2008 8:54:50 PM)

Interesting tidbit for those interested-- According to U.S bureau of labor % statistics the 50 year average unemployment rate is 5.66%



jackq -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/5/2008 8:56:40 PM)

O.K., let's say we vote out all the present politians and get fresh blood in their place. How long do you think it'll be before they are corrupted?? Kinda like sending a virgin into a brothel...sooner or later she's gonna spread 'em too!!



rapala11 -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/5/2008 10:55:05 PM)

s10, your facts are correct.  big difference now is that job losses are permanent.  they are gone.  has been happening for a few decades now.  it is scary. 



Over the Hill -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/5/2008 11:42:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rapala11

oth, the economy goes up and down the same as crappie and grouse populations.  there can be no doubt.  a true indicator of a healthy economy would be retail sales.  i work for one of the largest retailers in the world, as an inventory control person.  i see figures and numbers daily.  when clinton (didn't care for him at all) was in the big house, we worked six and seven days a week.  today, we work four and five, with a whole shift laid off.  same store sales are dismal, at best.  bush inherited what jimmy carter inherited.  if we are going to give bush that alibi, it should also be extended to carter.

you speak of lipservice....i concur.  i think you and i have had our fill of it in the last twenty years.  guess honesty and integrity are not required to become an elected official. 


We agree on a lot... Carter did inherit a rough time for being president. A few years earlier we had the opec driven gas crisis. Prices soared, much like they are today. That's why I feel we are in for a rough road ahead.

With your work, times and peoples purchases are different than from 10 yrs ago. I don't know who you work for, but, is it possible that there is competition from other companies biting into the sales of you company? I don't know it's just a thought.

20 years ago... Here's a thought: I never would have imagined that K-Mart and Sears would be merged together. Companies, like the economy, go up and down and have life spans for the service/product until it goes obsolete or someone else comes in with cheaper prices/product. Walmart has put a lot of other stores/mom and pop shops out of business.




spoonchucker -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 12:26:11 AM)

 "spoon ,i vote middle,do you,,sounds like you are more left than middle,,"

Rock

Never voted a straight party ticket in my life, and I would venture to bet I've voted for more republicans, than you have democrats. 



spoonchucker -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 1:20:14 AM)

The malls are full, and doing well, yesiree.

Community college classes in the old mall movie theater. A DMV office across from the Starbucks. Maybe a local library between the Victoria's Secret and the Gap.
Mall and strip center owners are turning to untried and untraditional tenants to brighten dark storefronts as the sluggish economy sends more retailers to bankruptcy or forces others to scale back their expansion plans.
Retail vacancies nationwide hover around 10 percent, according to ReStore, the retail division of commercial real estate services firm NAI Global, and could reach 12 percent or more by end of the year. Similarly, Property & Portfolio Research expects vacancies to rise and the total amount of new space leased to drop 94 percent from 2007.



S-10 -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 7:49:55 AM)

What Spoon forget to mention is how that compares with past history since retail property and businesses have always come and gone. For example in 1998 and 1999 class A and B retail nationwide  occupancy average ranged between 88% and 89%. That means 11% to 12% were unoccupied. Must be an election year.[:)]



ROCKHARD -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 9:04:13 AM)

yea so far today ,seems like alot of agreement,,, s-10, right about those statistics, just heard analyst give same figures friday nite,, wonder why that number scares people today,, rap, yes their permanent,, but my steel job in the 70's was permanant to, my construction job in the mid 90's was a permanent lose,, most layoffs for last 20-30 yrs have been  permanent,,,spoon,i dont know about that,,i voted mostly dem thru 70's and 80's,,, but a different dem party then ,as we have now,,,, oth,,i think the merge beyween sears and k-mart was ,my opinion now, sears was a high market store which carried mostly their own brand items, when k-mart filed bankruptcy, with slagging sales ,i think sears seen a way of getting into that part of discount markets,, helped both sides...



rapala11 -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 11:05:43 AM)

rock, kmart came out of bankruptcy in extremely good shape.  eddie lampert, the owner, acquired sears afterwards and tried to merge the two.  poor sales at sears dragged km down again.  money was not put into the company.  in the meantime, he is going after auto nation, auto zone, home depot and more rough edged companies.  he continues to buy back stock in all of these, sometimes paying too much.  the man is into real estate and his own hedge fund (warren buffett style).  you may see the day where kenmore and craftsman are sold by other big box retailers as well as km and sears.   



spoonchucker -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 3:12:41 PM)

S-10

I never said it was the worst ever, OR a crises. I just countered YOUR point, that the malls are thriving, so everything is hunky dunky. Nor have I said, this is the worst economy ever, but things like this, an INCREASE in both inflation, and unemployment, along with other ecomomic data DOES suggest we are headed in the wrong direction. Yet you advocate continuing current policy, and "staying the course ". Let's wait till it gets worse than previous lows, THEN maybe we should do something. Keep that head buried in the sand.



rapala11 -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 3:23:26 PM)

hey, if we ignore all these problems, maybe they will just go away.



S-10 -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 3:49:41 PM)

Spoon--To start with, read back over my posts and try to find where I ever said anything about malls. I said resturants and casino's were full, I never mentioned malls. Some indicators do suggest we are headed for a downturn but you put out your numbers without comparing them to the past to try to make people BELIEVE the sky is falling. It's just what Clinton did to beat the first Bush. His team preached gloom and doom and not until a few weeks AFTER the election did they and the media start admitting things were already turning around. Bush made enough mistakes you can beat him up for without misleading folks. Count on me posting the other side of the story when you only tell the front half. BTW-- How can you tell the difference between Mckains and Obamas position on the Iraq war? Answer-- After this weekend maybe you can't. He sure left the anti war crowd and moveon.org swinging in the wind. [:)]



spoonchucker -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 3:57:15 PM)

Oh, but I HAVE compared numbers to the past.

Personal bankruptcy; Highest EVER.

Foreclosures, and defaults: highest EVER.

Negative savings rate: first time since the DPERESSION.

Home equity: Lowest since WWII.



rapala11 -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 4:08:42 PM)

how about auto sales at all time lows.

retail sales plummenting.

owners loosing up to 50% value on gas guzzler vehicles (npr yesterday).

airlines folding or undergoing massive layoffs.

resort and vacation destinations offering any kind of discount to survive.



ROCKHARD -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 5:12:09 PM)

if things keep going, maybe they will start giving away STEELER/BROWNS TICKETS,,  they tried giving away pirate tickets,no takers,,what pitiful team,good ,but no consistincey,,, sorry to get off track...



jonnyfishon -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 7:00:35 PM)

Spoon with the left, Rap with the right, KO[sm=claps.gif]



S-10 -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 7:13:30 PM)

Spoon said --Personal Bankruptcy Highest Ever---Fact = MSNBCApril 15,2008---Personal Bankruptcy in 2006  was 617,660 ------Personal Bankruptcy in 2007 was 850,912.  Per MSNBC that's still below the level earlier in the decade when they averaged 1,500,000 annually. Still think the sky is falling? the last year of the Clinton administration it was 1,200,000. Must be an election year.[:)]   



S-10 -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 7:37:04 PM)

Rapala- Care to cite your source on ( retail sales plummeting) and state as compared to what? Also on resort and vacation destinations offering ANY kind of discount to survive. Some no doubt are but many are not unless you care to back it up with some facts. The ones I've looked into sure aren't doing anything much different.-------As for the rest they are all due strictly to the price of gas which I thought most of us agreed no president is totally to blame for or can be expected to do much about.



S-10 -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 8:06:01 PM)

Spoon said---Negative savings rate--first time since the DEPRESSION.  What he forgot to mention is that took place in 2005 and improved the following year. He also FORgot to mention that the savings rate started a gradual slide in May of 1985 which got us to here. I helped reduce it by taking money out of the bank to go on a trip in 2005. Must be an election year.[:)]



rapala11 -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 11:03:57 PM)

s10, i work for one of the largest retailers in the country.  i see our sales figures all the time.  they have been dropping for well over 8 quarters.  jc penney has failed to meet earnings expectations and noted a sales drop also, citing the sagging economy.  disney is closing stores nationwide.  linens and things about to file.  value city closing stores.

i am not blaming bush completely.  i think that reagan and clinton did just as much to hurt us today with their policies years ago.  free trade and favored nation agreements.  i have said this all along. 



rapala11 -> RE: survived another scare......... (7/6/2008 11:06:56 PM)

s10, this may help:


Retail Joins Slump With Poor Sales
Merchants Report Worst January Performance in Four Decades





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A family shops at a Target in Raleigh, N.C. The chain reported a decline in same-store sales of 1.1 percent drop owing to shoppers' concerns with, among other things, high gas and food prices and a slumping housing market. (By Jim R. Bounds -- Bloomberg News) [image]http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/gr/ico_enlarge.gif[/image]  Enlarge Photo    


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By Anne D'InnocenzioAssociated Press
Friday, February 8, 2008; Page D02

NEW YORK, Feb. 7 -- The nation's retailers delivered more evidence of a stumbling economy Thursday, as merchants reported their weakest January performance in nearly four decades.

The sales figures made it clear that consumers wrestling with high gas and food prices, a slumping housing market, an escalating credit crisis and a weakening job market retrenched further. The disappointments cut across all sectors, including discounters such as Wal-Mart Stores, teen retailers including Pacific Sunwear of California and mall-based apparel chain Limited Brands. Even affluent shoppers are pulling back, hurting such stores as Nordstrom.
"Clearly, this is a reflection of a very difficult environment for the consumer," said Ken Perkins, president of Retail Metrics, a research company in Swampscott, Mass. "It looks like consumer spending is stalling."
But many retailers either backed their earnings forecast or even raised guidance, signaling that they were able to control their inventories. Hot Topic and Wal-Mart stuck with their earnings forecast, while Pacific Sunwear, Wet Seal and Gap raised their profit outlooks despite sales drops.
The UBS-International Council of Shopping Centers preliminary sales tally of 43 retailers rose 0.5 percent in January, well below the original 1.5 percent forecast. The results followed an anemic 0.7 pace in December and were below last year's same-store sales average gain of 2.1 percent. Same-store sales are sales at stores that have been open at least a year.
Some retailers' efforts to control inventories are expected to salvage their earnings; they're also likely to pare merchandise offerings further in the coming months to respond to slowing demand.
Wal-Mart, the world's largest retailer, reported a 0.5 percent gain in same-store sales. The company said that it continues to do well with staples such as groceries but that home furnishings remain weak. Wal-Mart noted in its news release that gift card redemptions were below expectations and that customers appear to be holding gift cards longer and "using them more often for food and consumables rather than discretionary purchases."

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Wal-Mart's rival Target reported a 1.1 percent decline in same-store sales in January, while Costco Wholesale reported a 7 percent gain.
J.C. Penney's same-store sales fell 1.9 percent, Nordstrom's dropped 6.6 percent, but Saks said sales rose 4.1 percent.
Limited Brands reported an 8 percent drop, and Gap posted a 2 percent decline in same-store sales



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