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RE: survived another scare......... - 7/1/2008 1:58:49 AM   
Over the Hill


Posts: 528
Joined: 3/28/2007
Status: offline 		Goby, thanks for the kind words. We do have faith that who ever did it will be caught and the facts of what really happened will be made public in court. With those facts, maybe we, outdoorsmen/woman can learn from it so we do not become victims ourselves. A priest once told me for everything that happens, there's a lesson to be learned.

As far as guns shows, I am against their being outlawed. It is a great way for a person to personally sell their firearms. A lot of exposure to potential customers. I also have seen the people of questionable character at the shows myself. We know why they are there; private sales of long arms do not require a background check. They don't need to have someone make a straw purchase. That's not to say they don't go into law abiding gun stores, I've just seen more at shows and less in stores.

A simple solution is to close the loophole for private sales outside the family. It is hipocritical to have a person go through a background check at a gunstore and not at a show. There are FFL dealers at the shows. The seller and purchaser go over to the dealers booth, run a check on the gun to make sure it is not stolen, run the check on the purchaser, and it's done. The FFL dealer would charge a fee for the service just like they do in a store.

Personally, all of my purchases and selling of firearms were done through an FFL dealer. I have nothing to hide also. I wanted a paper trail showing my time of possession (for purchase) and relieving me of the responsability of the gun (when selling).

I like the shows for the variety of items that are all in one spot. Competition between vendors sometimes makes great prices on guns/ammo/sporting goods. Plus, some vendors would mark down items towards the closing of the show. I got some great deals that way.

< Message edited by Over the Hill -- 7/1/2008 2:12:18 AM >

_____________________________

OVER THE HILL

Some people are like slinky's; not really good for anything, but, they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs...

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 61
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/1/2008 4:17:39 AM   
gobyking

 

Posts: 954
Status: offline 		Well said,Rap.

I was trying to get Spoons goat,he didn't bite on any thread.His responses were as if he was in a business meeting,gotta love that.There were truths in what I said but wanted to see if I could irritate the high poster,to no avail.Good job Spoon.

Overthehill,if all people followed the law in these events,we would have no problems.The scum are still going to break into a house and steal guns,no getting around that.Fact is,they can go to these gun shows and get what they need even though they're not legally allowed to own a gun mostly because they are convicted felons.However,there are other reasons that they aren't allowed.You're right,they should hold the same standards to these shows that dealers have to abide by.Who is to blame?Not sure,maybe the politician who cannot secure the law at the shows for the safety of the public at large.Raps right.They are the royalty who pass judgement on the surfs like ourselves.Get rid of a lot of them and they will start to actually listen to those whose paycheck they have to thank for.

(in reply to Over the Hill)
Post #: 62
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/1/2008 4:48:29 AM   
Over the Hill


Posts: 528
Joined: 3/28/2007
Status: offline 		Goby, your definatly right on the fact that criminals will go break into homes to get guns. The legendary John Dillinger use to break into police stations to get his arsenals for crime. The basis is they are criminals-they break laws- period. It sucks that we have to pay extra for BC's and jump thru hoops to be able to exercise our constitutional right.

With all the laws already on the books, threoretically we shouldn't have all the crime with guns. 

I was watching PCN tonight and one of the PA Supreme Court Justices was taking questions from people. One question was about gun control/crime. He said that PA has a MANDITORY 5 yr. sentence for using a gun in a crime. Funny, I never see the 5 yr. sentence on criminals around here who get convicted of armed robbery. Maybe I'm missing something or the papers just aren't reporting everything.

I do believe the politicians should pay more attention to their constituants. Term limits I think would help with that. They get too comfortable, powerful and lax when they have been in office for a long time. They aren't coming up with solutions so they must be part of the problem.

_____________________________

OVER THE HILL

Some people are like slinky's; not really good for anything, but, they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs...

(in reply to gobyking)
Post #: 63
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/1/2008 9:35:45 AM   
Loomis


Posts: 624
Joined: 9/19/2005
Status: online 		Someone commented about the pussification of this country and reading this thread I can totally believe it.  Gun control should be NON DISPUTABLE it's a rotten shame that this case even went to the supreme court.......Guns, like drugs, will always make it into this country somehow...Organized crime in Southern Italy continues to have the highest GDP of any government in the world, far suprassing ours by BILLIONS by arms trafficking and narcotics, extortion, and protection money.  Same with Romania and Hungary, and Albania...all arms trafficking hierarchies.  Go to the hill district in PGH at 2 am, I used to have to be accompanied down streets by a friend to go to Boxing Practice, cops wouldn't even come down the alleys and my friend told me that without him, I was toast....all it takes is for one of those mulignan's to mistake you as Task....can't even workout with having to take precautions.  DEA, ATF, FBI, and the Police will never, ever ever ever ever in a million years stop crime, stats prove that if you have ever been formally educated in the slightest about criminology. Us as Citizens of the United States should have the right to protect ourselves from it.  I encourage everyone I meet, guy or girl to get a handgun of some sort and carry it, everywhere.  Criminals will always get illegal guns, there will be shootings in section 8 housing projects, as well as in rich sections of cities and schools.  I carry and confide in my pistol, and in a situation where my life is threatened I will take another, no hesitation whatsoever. Ill be damned if im going to get robbed and killed like a piece of meat.  I also belong to the NRA and am in a group called SCCC (http://concealedcampus.org/) we are pressing IUP to allow people who meet a certain criteria to be able to carry on campus.  If im in school and some degenerate comes in shooting, im supposed to cower under my desk and take it?  Forget it, im unloading.  People need to grow a set....it makes me sick that an issue like this would even be up for debate on the supreme court floor.  People my age need to put on a mesh NRA hat, throw in a side chew and tuck a revolver in the back pocket and stop talking crazy about getting handguns banned or dissasembling long guns...pisses me off to no end that we want to elect these little babies into office that want this to happen....America is truly, truly, becoming totally pussified for lack of a better word.

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http://loomisflyfisher.blogspot.com

"I am by no means the most logical and educated person about fly fishing, but I will share with you what I know"

(in reply to Over the Hill)
Post #: 64
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/1/2008 3:50:45 PM   
carpin05

 

Posts: 408
Joined: 5/30/2005
Status: offline 		When and if i pull it out,, Your a dead man. it's not ment to scare you!!!

(in reply to Over the Hill)
Post #: 65
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/1/2008 4:23:16 PM   
Bughawk


Posts: 5951
Status: offline 		Pussified?  Could it be that people are tired of living in a violent society and are trying to create something better?  There is no question that violent neighborhoods exist and most likely always will to some degree, but they most certainly will not change as long as people think violence is the answer.  Carrying a gun may give you a sense of security, but it is a solution to a very short term problem.  If you ever have to use a gun to defend yourself, you are already in more trouble than you can imagine, and it ain't going to get any better.   If you want to be safe walking down a street, why not work to help create a less violent neighborhood?  Fight violence not with guns, but with concern for the problems of the people who live there.  I know this sounds like pie in the sky, but the reality is peace is hard work.  Violence is easy.  Maybe it is a dream to think we can do better, but I would rather cling to that dream and start to take steps to see it become a reality than to do nothing but stick a gun in my belt and think I am bad MF'er and no body is goin' be messing with me.  How is that attitude going to solve anything?  How is that going to make the world a safer place for anyone?  That is the same attitude as the gangbangers, a bit more refined perhaps, but not all that different. 

What is all boils down to is vision.  The short term solution to violence, is more violence.  Simple.  Shoot or be shoot.  Livning in the jungle means, acting like an animal.  A longer term solution is to work for a society where we will not have to resort to violence to solve our differences.  Where there will be justice and peace.  I would like to think our country is one moving forward toward a peaceful society and not one moving backwards toward a violent past.   

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pax vobiscum +

(in reply to carpin05)
Post #: 66
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/1/2008 4:28:12 PM   
Grendel


Posts: 2403
Joined: 10/30/2001
From: Incommunicado
Status: offline 		I agree Bug.  I come from the ideology (although most would say unrealistic) that violance begets violence.  There is some great work out there from the Peacemaking Perspective.  My students hate reading it because it runs counter to their "in your face violence" mentality.  The perspective (as proposed by Hal Pepinsky and Richard Quinney) borrows ideas from the Law of Agape, Peace Churches, and Radical/Marxist Criminology. 

It is a tough "sell" indeed.

Doc

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Science like nature
Must also be tamed
With a view towards its preservation
Given the same state of integrity
It will surely serve us well ~ NP

(in reply to Bughawk)
Post #: 67
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/1/2008 4:51:08 PM   
STEELYS MANFISH

 

Posts: 263
Joined: 2/4/2008
Status: offline 		well put Bughawk, I am completely with u on your points. Peace is difficult no doubt about it. People need to realize strength is more than the ability to carry a weapon. Great statements again.

(in reply to Bughawk)
Post #: 68
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/1/2008 5:15:19 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		i think what loomis was saying is same as i posted,,,should have never been up for discussion,let alone a vote on our rights,,thats the problem,,

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

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Post #: 69
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/1/2008 5:20:38 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		jonny what numbers ,,the ones you are forced to see,,,27 qtrs without a negative growth,,some not good ,but you need two negative qtrs to say recession,,, look it up ,,general economics,, like s10 said,, go to the malls,or casinos,,,dont look like doom and gloom to me,,, but the left will have you believe that,,,election year politics,,, always has been sectors of the economy,that are doing poorly,, mine has and will again,, no matter who is running govt,,, 

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 70
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/1/2008 6:37:31 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		Rock,

What numbers do YOU need to see?

NEGATIVE savings rate, first time since the depression. Nation wide not SOME sectors
Home equity at it's lowest since WW!!. Nation wide
Energy, healthcare, and education costs well above inflation, Nation wide
A shrinking dollar. Nation wide, AND worldwide
Rising unemployment.
Consumer confidence at it's lowest in history.

Yeah the malls are full. Folks STILL need to buy SOME items. Go INSIDE, and ask the retailers how much spending is going on there. Kids hang out there, ( more when they lack money to go elsewhere ). The elderly, who can't heat, or cool their homes adequetly, seek refuge there. Many reaons for a full lot, and not always result in emptying shelves.

Casinos? Who do you think does most of the gambling? It isn't the affluent. Gambling is commonly viewed as the only way out for the economical stressed. Foolish maybe, but desperate people seldom behave rationally. For example: During the depression, when the average bet was 10 cents, numbers runners brought in 80,000 a day in Harlem alone. Look at the average person buying lottery tickets.

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

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Post #: 71
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/1/2008 6:55:02 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		",,,should have never been up for discussion,let alone a vote on our rights,,thats the problem,"

I try to remain respectful, as I truly hold no animosity toward anyone for their opinion.

But you continually show an ignorance of how our system works, why it works, and how it got that way. The consitution, was not sent down from God in stone tablets, and immediatley accepted by all. Read some history. The federalist, AND anti federalist papers are a good place to start. The consitution, and ALL of you "rights" wwere hotly debated, and voted on MANY times before ratification. In fact the Bill Of Rights, very nearly was not included. As I said before INDIVIDUAL rights to bear arms, was NOT specifcally included in the 2nd amendment. The DEBATE was whether, or not it was implied, by the intent of the authors. It is the supreme court's JOB, to make clear, what isn't clear. They got it right, be happy.

Does "The right of the PEOPLE" ( people, not individual ) mean each person, or the people as a collective? That was the question to be decided. The wording itself is hardly clear, and why BOTH sides were reluctant, to test it.

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 72
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/1/2008 7:41:55 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		spoon, healthcare was never affordable by average citizen,,,,, education, not many could ever afford it,without student loans or grants,nothing new,,,weak dollar,,world market and commodities,plus an over zealous govt trying to borrow from other countries for their spending policies,plus the feds keep lowering interest rates,,,, i do study what the founding fathers have discussed,,one place to look is "CONCOURSE.ORG ",, ALL CONSTITUTION,,,,they also added to our rights the 10th ammendment,which states any power not delegated to the fed govt shall be given to the states and /or the people,,  the feds hold the states at ransom by not giving them any funding if they dont go along with washington...you for that .. happens all the time,,, partly the cause of our civil war,not over slavery ,but the feds getting to much control,,,unemployment ,,not fed problem wholly,,partly from states who have a high tax base,,companies go where treated more fairly,like out west,,economy doing pretty well,,,or south,right to work states,,,dont know if bush controls home equity either,,sounds like a market problem,,,savings rate,that is a fed problem, not soley bush but the feds

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 73
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/1/2008 11:58:35 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		spoon, healthcare was never affordable by average citizen,,,,, education, not many could ever afford it,

rock, when i got out of high school in 72, tuition at youngstown state university was 300 dollars a quarter, not including books.  while i was there, i was also a steelworker.  my health care was excellent, covered everything and cost me nothing, not a penny.  no deductibles, no co-pays.  we had a system that worked from the 30s through the 70s.  the middle class prospered, unions grew, and business owners made money.  something happened.

go to the malls,or casinos,,,dont look like doom and gloom to me,,,         uh, the two malls in the youngstown-warren area are empty during the week.  there are empty store fronts and kiosks.  things are not doing well at eateries either.   i work retail, i see the figures and know that things are not going well.  wish they were....

ford, chrysler, and gm along with toyota, all took a kick in the chin today.  sales were dismal at best.  this is NOT a thriving economy, nor a growing one.  

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 74
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 12:01:34 AM   
jonnyfishon

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ROCKHARD

jonny what numbers ,,the ones you are forced to see,,,27 qtrs without a negative growth,,some not good ,but you need two negative qtrs to say recession,,, look it up ,,general economics,, like s10 said,, go to the malls,or casinos,,,dont look like doom and gloom to me,,, but the left will have you believe that,,,election year politics,,, always has been sectors of the economy,that are doing poorly,, mine has and will again,, no matter who is running govt,,, 

The number I see are far worse than the 1930's when the great depression snuck up on people. Those very same people said the same thing you did.Everything is fine, people still play the slots,life is dandy. To allow the credit cards companies, the stock market, oil co. ect do whatever they want with no regulation will destroy everyone except the rich.  Read Albert Einsteins theory on the great depression. Trickle down economics does not work. Money flows up. Its not all bushes fault, reagans trickle down bs is still effecting this country. Mr bush and his administration(80%) and a bunch of blind democrats(20%), have some people fooled, but not me. They could have prevented the cancer from spreading,Instead they FED the tumor. Some people just ignore thier cancer, thinking it will go away or just not admit they have it. Id rather live. The numbers are all there. This is not a political crisis, Its an economic crisis, and it is severe. To say people go out to eat and to the mall means were not in a recession is silly. I understand those are "signs" of a recession in the 1930's, but not now. Times have changed. We need to do something about it and it needs to be done soon. I hope I never have to say I told you so Rock, But to ignore the numbers will do more harm than good.

< Message edited by jonnyfishon -- 7/2/2008 12:06:08 AM >

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 75
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 5:58:33 AM   
saltflyfisher

 

Posts: 1050
Joined: 8/14/2003
Status: online 		Spoon, rocks feeding off of the GDP numbers and yes they have not shown 2 months in a row of neg. But then again these numbers don't take in account all the factors like food and fuel. Two of the majors that our money goes to.
quote:

ORIGINAL: spoonchucker

Rock,

What numbers do YOU need to see?

NEGATIVE savings rate, first time since the depression. Nation wide not SOME sectors
Home equity at it's lowest since WW!!. Nation wide
Energy, healthcare, and education costs well above inflation, Nation wide
A shrinking dollar. Nation wide, AND worldwide
Rising unemployment.
Consumer confidence at it's lowest in history.

Yeah the malls are full. Folks STILL need to buy SOME items. Go INSIDE, and ask the retailers how much spending is going on there. Kids hang out there, ( more when they lack money to go elsewhere ). The elderly, who can't heat, or cool their homes adequetly, seek refuge there. Many reaons for a full lot, and not always result in emptying shelves.

Casinos? Who do you think does most of the gambling? It isn't the affluent. Gambling is commonly viewed as the only way out for the economical stressed. Foolish maybe, but desperate people seldom behave rationally. For example: During the depression, when the average bet was 10 cents, numbers runners brought in 80,000 a day in Harlem alone. Look at the average person buying lottery tickets.

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 76
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 8:12:40 AM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1571
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		Rising unemployment= Avg during Clinton years was 5.65%  Avg during Bush years is 5.04%-----------Inflation when Clinton left office 3.70%  Current inflation 4.1%.  Not exactly a earth shattering difference.

(in reply to saltflyfisher)
Post #: 77
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 8:46:25 AM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1571
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		(Casinos-who do you think does most of the gambling? It isn't the affluent)--- According to two polls done in both the United States by Harrahs and one in Canada, Americans and Canadians in the upper income brackets have the highest casino gambling rates. Also, casino players are more likely to hold white collar jobs.

(in reply to S-10)
Post #: 78
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 8:52:38 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		well, throw in illegal drugs and drinking.  money is needed for both of these and sure seems to be a lot of people using them, so the economy must be good.  vices flourish in good times and bad.  seems as though vegas is on hard times these days.  second highest area for foreclosures. 

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

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Post #: 79
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 11:51:24 AM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		"Rising unemployment= Avg during Clinton years was 5.65%  Avg during Bush years is 5.04%-"

Here's the difference S-10. Clinton inherited a rate of 7.4% from Bush I. It declined steadily through his terms, and he left Bush II with a rate of 3.9%. It had increased to 6.4% by 2003 ( not all his fault. there WERE factors beyond his contol ). It then dropped to 5.6% ( Clintons average ) in 2004, and to 4.4% ( still higher than he started ) in 2006. It currently sits at 5.5%.

The point is. Clinton took office at 7.4%, had an avg. that was much lower of 5.6%, and left office even lower at 3.9%. Bush took office at 3.9%, had an avg. noticabley higher of 5.04%, and with 6 months left, looks to leave office with a rate that is as high as Clintons avg. and appears to be headed higher. Much higher than the rate he started with.

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 80
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 12:33:22 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		spoon, correct me if i am wrong, but during the clinton years, extensions were available for an additional six months.  under bush, there were no extensions, meaning layed-off workers fell from the unemployment ranks faster, even though there are fewer jobs.  again, i may be wrong, but i thought co-workers who were layed off were eligible for an additional six months unemployment which was funded by the feds.

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 81
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 12:56:27 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		Rapala,

There was a bill to extend benefits recently. I believe it failed, but I may be wrong. Bush opposed the extension, because he didn't believe the current rate warranted one. One thing to consider, is the way unemployment is calculated. The number of NEW filings does give them a picture of where things are headed, but not an entirely accurate picture of where they are. If you lose your job today, you are among the "officially" unemployed, after six months, ( whether, or NOT you find a job ), you are no longer a part of that figure.

Job creation is another misleading, or at least more complicated figure than most realize. There is creation VS loss, ( net gain ). The there is increasing work force size ( it takes 1.8 million new jobs per year just to match that, and break even ). And there is the issue of jobs created @ X-wage VS jobs lost @ Y-wage.

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 82
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 1:35:53 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		so the current unemployment numbers are not a true indicator then?  sure seems as though there are more folks out of work or making less than there were during the previous administration.  (our local gm plant is hiring, but the new jobs only pay 14.00 an hour).  so even though there has been job creation, wages are lower and taxes collected from these wages are lower.  think that is an indicator of an unhealthy economy also. 

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 83
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 1:57:23 PM   
gobyking

 

Posts: 954
Status: offline 		We seems to be getting off track here.The issues of the Supreme court ruling of 5-4 which was too close IMO,should have been much further apart.This again is a clear signal to Americans that your gun rights will be slowly whittled away to a series of hoops you have to jump through until it becomes a huge ordeal even to own one.Anti's will always point to high crime rates and murder stats,even though that will continue even IF guns were ever severly restricted.Crime will exist in any country,state,or province just like prostitution,no matter the law.

I will use an example.Why is it that you have to have your boat and car inspected in PA but not in Ohio?Because of the bureacracy in place here and a silly line on the map.What happened in Australia,Great Britain,and other civilized countries?Fox hunting was outlawed in England,what for,environmentalists?Is it mean to have dogs chase after a fox?

This is not about violence,we will always have it no matter what.Pie in the sky hippie thoughts died in the early 70's.Yes,I wish it could happen,but then we wouldn't need police officers because everyone would OBEY whatever laws are approved whether they are good for the free individual or not.Think about it,it is a vicious cycle and no real answer is available.And I won't quote how I know the law,history,or societal problems better than someone else because that is just patronizing.

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 84
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 2:46:44 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1571
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		Even though the Supreme court ruled in the gun owners favor the politicans who want gun control can use our own money to slow or circumvent the ruling. A prime example is Chicago where mayor Daley is going to keep his restrictions even though they are nearly identical to what was struck down in D.C.  He is going to spend millions in taxpayers money to defend them up to the Superme court knowing he will be defeated. WHY--because he knows the NRA will have to raise and spend the same amount to fight him. When there is no one left with the money and clout to fight these illegal restrictions the anti gunners will have won. That's why -love them or hate them -organizations like the NRA are our only chance.

(in reply to gobyking)
Post #: 85
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 5:14:45 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		There is one important difference between the law in Washington, and the ones in Chcago. DC's pertained to ALL homes private, or public. Chcago's from my understanding, applies to PUBLIC housing, owned, or funded by the city.

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to S-10)
Post #: 86
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 6:11:57 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		rap,i grew up just across the border from y'town,,that place died in the late 70's,before bush and reagen,,,auto industry,own fault on most part,, unions and high cost of vehicles 28,000.00 for a truck on avg. now,, in the 70's i but a brand new chevy truck for under 11,000.00 ,loaded,,,spoon, you compare clinton to bushs unemployment numbers,,, well lets see,, reagen inherited a lot worse economy from carter,than things now.. we seem not to mention the mess carter put us in, a very dimal inflation... bush opposed that extensions cause of all the add ons from the dems,no one reads anymore,,only what they want to believe...jonny,trickle down economics most certainly works,but not when you have govt spending away like they have unlimited funds,,, these give me bills and policies are killing this country, no one wants to do nothing on their own anymore,,its wait on govt to bail me out,,, like this homeowners bailout package,,, real fair to the people who keep their payments current,and do whatever it takes ,and turn around and give it to someone who couldnt afford that house to begin with,,a clinton brain thrust, he made sure all minorities and low income would get approved,, it was only a matter of time before it blew up in our face,,bush just happened to be in office when it happened.. now bush has done some very damaging policies himself ,i agree, but if we are going to compare,, lets compare the whole last 50 yrs,,

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WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 87
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 6:25:09 PM   
Over the Hill


Posts: 528
Joined: 3/28/2007
Status: offline 		Sunday's paper said the senate passed a 13 week unemployment extension. Don't know if prez signed it though.

I have a casino a few miles from my home. From MY personal observations, and watching all the different news stations reporting from inside the casino, all I ever see is white people with grey hair a bald spots. They're plugged in with their players cards going to town on the one armed bandits. I wonder if these are the same seniors who for YEARS say in the paper's editorial section that they can't afford to stay in their homes anymore because of the increase in taxes. I personally know a few seniors who do that and go to the casino once a week, gamble, eat the buffet for $24 a head, AND have cocktails. Drinks there are VERY expensive compared to local fancy restaurants. Once again, gambling and vices are a person CHOICE to participate in (aside from serious addictions.)

There has always been the "haves" and the "have nots" in this country. In our countries beginning, you have the landowners, the rich, and the poor, the peasants. There really wasn't a middle class as we know it today. I think there is a new "classification" of living today compared to years ago.

Growing up and do OK in life was:
*One car; not several in the family as there are today,
*a home that was affordable from 1 income in the family-usually just the father's-moms stayed home to raise the kids, a home with 1 bathroom; not 2+ like we so commonly see today, 3 bedroom or less,
*one phone in the house-a rotary; not a cell phone for every person in the family $100+ phone bills,
*no $500+ multiple computers in the home,
*new clothes for the year, in the beginning of school year-3 or 4 flannel shirts- 2 pairs of dungarees that we would cut the legs off next summer to make shorts out of, plus hand-me downs,
* One fishing pole and one reel; lures? what's the matter you afraid of worms?
*Most importantly NO CREDIT CARDS with 15-23% interest payments.
*extras were saved for. 

I know I forgot a lot of other things and I am not trying to play feel sorry for me. The way I grew up was like everyone else in the neighborhood. All of our necessities we taken care of. Today, I feel a lot of people don't spend their money wisely.

And, I am not judging ANYONE on this board, I do not know any of you personally to even hint at such a thing.

People I do know who are having a hard time, and did not loose thier jobs because of the shringage of the middle class job market, really piss their money away. They have "needs", needs that my family didn't have when we were growing up.



A good example of statistics that are not a TRUE reflection of reality is the consumer price index (CPI). The cpi doesn't include food and fuel in it's evaluations. A government official said recently on tv that those two items aren't included because no matter what, you will consume them, kind of like neccesities.


Sorry for going off track here from the original subject. There has been many interesting subjects discussed here along with peoples opinions. I'll start another thread called "depression" if anyone wants to continue these other topics on there.



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OVER THE HILL

Some people are like slinky's; not really good for anything, but, they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs...

(in reply to S-10)
Post #: 88
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 6:44:46 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		o.h. ,,that was great,i guess thats how it was from my look back on growing up,,,, cant blame govt on every problem we encounter,,, i work with a guy now,,crys all the time how money is tight, cant make house payment ,but just went and bought a new boat (3 yrs old ) 4,500.00... complains about gas,food, bills,, but you can find him at the corner bar,on the golf course and out west going on some elk hunt... house , a moderate home,,,sometimes we got to look at ourselves instead of blaming govt for it all,,,, jobs have always come and gone,,this last seven yrs is nothing new for job loss, bad economy,,media will tell you doom and gloom ,but they have agendas too.... empty store fronts,,hell i seen them in bunches all my life,,, 

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

(in reply to Over the Hill)
Post #: 89
RE: survived another scare......... - 7/2/2008 7:17:06 PM   
Over the Hill


Posts: 528
Joined: 3/28/2007
Status: offline 		Rock, your right about jobs coming and going. When the tin mills, steel plants and coal mines closed up, my forefathers had to change jobs, learn new skills and move to find work to take care of their families. I did it once and hate to think of it, but, I will probrably have to do it again for retirement.

Got to get moving--- taking my better half out for my FREE lobster dinner.  I only get treated good once a year..........

_____________________________

OVER THE HILL

Some people are like slinky's; not really good for anything, but, they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs...

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 90
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