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RE: survived another scare......... - 6/27/2008 3:10:38 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1571
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		VIRTUALLY--REASONABLE--SENSIBLE---When it comes to the rights of citizens to own firearms those are words to beware of. I will agree with Spoon that once precident is set it is not easily changed although the anti abortionists sure have high hopes.  

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 31
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/27/2008 5:40:29 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		riz, sorry, i was wrong in what i posted.  feel better?  my point, i am sick of the lib-con crap.  seems a conservative president nominated a liberal judicial candidate.  all libs and conservatives can't all be bad.

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to Over the Hill)
Post #: 32
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/27/2008 10:30:57 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		Rap,

You hit it. Too many people look at EVERYTHING as a matter of two extremes, left ( "liberal" ), and right ( "conservative" ), ALL Dems are "liberal" , and Reps. are "conservative". Mass multi electronic media has helped the Hannity's, and Rush's on one side, andf the Sharptons, and Jacksons on the other create a growing number of these people. Guys like S-10, Gone, and Rock, are, or at least "appeear to be such people. I could be wrong, I just get the impression the everything is either >left, or > right to them. Looking at everything, as two extremes, distracts us from the big picture, and the real issues. And it makes it difficult, if not impossible to reach real solutions.

There will ALWAYS  be those on the far left, and far right, and they will always be at odds. Those of us somewhere in the middle, must take care not to allow them to put us at odds with each other. We must find a way to work together, or we're forked.

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 33
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/27/2008 10:57:54 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1571
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		You may want to re-read all your posts and take a deep breath and cross your fingers before declaring yourself in the middle on the issues. Most of your posts are right out of the liberal Dems playbook on talking points and either your "slippery slope" was taken fron the Brady gun control presidents speach on the gun rights ruling or else he plaigerized it from you. I would expect the former. I don't need Obama telling me why I like my guns and I don't need your spin on who I am. I've been around long enough to see through the bullshit from both sides and know how and why most of the rulings affecting me came about. I also know who is most likely to concentrate on the criminals and not worry so much that I own guns and that man is not Obama. Have a nice evening.

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 34
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/28/2008 12:13:00 AM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		there is no one who should completely agree with party issues.  there has to be questions and dissent.  if one agrees completely, then there is no thought involved.  the party thinks for you.  and then you become a lemming.

case in point, i may appear to be a liberal, but i am anti-abortion and pro gun.  each issue deserves careful consideration instead of lip service and party loyalty.

spoon, excellent points.

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to S-10)
Post #: 35
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/28/2008 1:34:00 AM   
jonnyfishon

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline 		LEFT AND RIGHT = UPSIDE DOWN AND BACWARDS. (where is my gun)

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 36
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/28/2008 12:37:12 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		S-10,

Never claimed to be dead center, but I'm alot closer than you believe. I have also been on this earth for day, or two myself, and while I can't see to tie my leaders, I can see through the bull quite well myself. I have also seen the failures of "all, or nothing", "you're for ALL things conservative, or your a liberal, and vica versa" stances by either side. I can't see the average Democrat as a hardcore liberal, any more than the average Republican as a hardcore conservative. I don't doubt that you very much desire a nation filled with, and RUN by "conservatives", nor do I doubt there are those who would like to see a nation filed with, and RUN by "liberals". A look the history, shows that having EITHER in complete control has very bad results.  We need a little bit of both, and a whole lot of the middle. In fact we probabley need to lean a little to the conservative, but many of the so called "conservative" positions, and values, just don't seem all that "conservative" to me.

I did not see the speech you reffered to, and I doubt that the speaker has ever read any of my posts. The term "slippery slope" HAS been bantied about fairly often, in fact I'm fairly sure if I look back, I might find it in one of your posts. When I knowingly use someone elses words, I use quotations, and usually cite the source. Generally it is to cite comments contradictory, their own parties position.


< Message edited by spoonchucker -- 6/28/2008 12:42:31 PM >

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to jonnyfishon)
Post #: 37
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/28/2008 12:41:43 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		error

< Message edited by spoonchucker -- 6/28/2008 12:43:00 PM >

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 38
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/28/2008 12:59:44 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		"I have also seen the failures of "all, or nothing", "you're for ALL things conservative, or your a liberal, and vica versa" stances by either side. I can't see the average Democrat as a hardcore liberal, any more than the average Republican as a hardcore conservative. I don't doubt that you very much desire a nation filled with, and RUN by "conservatives",........ "



spoon, this will be on my desk at work this coming week.  seems as though i am loathed by the neocon evangelicals who question how I can be a Christian and at the same time distance myself from the current trends and political fads of Christians.  i reply that my faith guides my political decisions at times and that Christ was the ultimate hippie, seeking peace, loving the environment that his Father created and teaching forgiveness and tolerance.  man, these guys want to excommunicate me.  necon republicans do not hold the patent of Christian beliefs.  libs can also believe.  but it as what you once said, He would be disgusted with all of them.  in the end, if we all believed the same way and were governed by such, we would have a one party political system as seen in russia, china, and iran.  

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 39
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/28/2008 1:29:30 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		"I really don't like to get into "what if" scenarios, but, I wonder if my friend Lee was carrying CCW if he would have had a different outcome."

OTH,

If I recall correctly, your friend was hunting, and DID have a weapon, which was taken. It's sad, and unfortunate, but that weapon didn't help much. I'm sure there are statistics out there on this, but I suspect this tends to be the case. The "bad guys", know who they are, and what their intentions are. By the time YOU find out, it is most likely too late.


_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to Over the Hill)
Post #: 40
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/28/2008 1:41:44 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1571
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		Jews--Muslims--Christians-- All wanting to go to the same better place--All taking a different route to get there--All believing their way is the only way---Sure are going to be a lot of disappointed people.

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 41
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/28/2008 1:46:42 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1571
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		(By the time you find out it's most likely too late)---Often times true but 1. If they know you may have a gun they may decide not to chance fate.  2. If you don't have a gun you have no chance in a breakin.                    

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 42
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/28/2008 1:56:26 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		If by finding that there are others of different religions there when they get there would disappoint them, then yes.

I believe good people, and even some not so good people, of all religions, or none, wil find redemption. I DO believe the pathway to heaven goes through the lord Jesus, but those who have not found him here, will have opportunity to meet, and accept him in death.

I'm not trying to be offensive, or judgemental here. I'm just curious. Do you believe Ghandi would be denied a place in heaven?

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to S-10)
Post #: 43
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/28/2008 2:00:46 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1571
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		Don't know---how about the 9-11 terrorists with their 72 virgins?

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 44
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/28/2008 2:08:32 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		"Often times true but 1. If they know you may have a gun they may decide not to chance fate.  2. If you don't have a gun you have no chance in a breakin."

I'll agree with you on point 1, and to a degree on point 2. An attempt to reach your weapon, may trigger a response ( use of the "perps" weapon ) that might not have occured otherwise. No doubt there are times that there is no recourse but to TRY and defend yourself, but more often it would be wiser to let them have the money, or whatever, ad live to see another day.

Actually point one, is not entirely true. Look at the police reports on breakins, and robberies in you area. Many are carried out by people who would never spent so much as a second wondering if the victim might be armed. Carreer, or professional criminals, yes, but most crimes are commited by punks, and addicts, that don't have that kind of thought process, or capabilities.

It is your right to carry protection, and I have NO problem with your doing so ( have myself at times ). I am just pointing out that the overconfidence of being armed, has probabley cost more lives, than the security of being armed has saved. It is, and SHOULD BE your choice, just  make it with a realalistic understanding and expectations is all I'm saying.

< Message edited by spoonchucker -- 6/28/2008 2:16:18 PM >

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 45
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/28/2008 2:11:33 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		"Don't know---how about the 9-11 terrorists with their 72 virgins?"

Not very likely. I'm pretty sure there will be plenty "Christians" and even some so called "Christian" leaders, that will be missing from the ranks.

I'd like to believe, and pray that I'll be there. I am not real sure why he would want me though. I'm sure it's going to be a long conversation when I meet him.

< Message edited by spoonchucker -- 6/28/2008 2:20:27 PM >

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 46
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/28/2008 3:54:54 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		i think that if all men followed their hearts, not their leaders, they have a better chance of getting there.  this goes not only for political leaders, but a lot of religious ones as well.

72 virgins can turn into 72 wives with 72 honey-do lists.  no time for fishing in the eternity.  think i will stick with one.

figure it is up to Him to judge, not me.  i am pretty unworthy with a lot of work still needing to be done.

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 47
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/28/2008 11:27:56 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1571
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		(72 virgins can turn into 72 wives with 72 honey do lists. No time for fishing.)  Wow-- If you can convince the Muslims of that it may cut way down on the violence.  Would certainly work for me.

(in reply to rapala11)
Post #: 48
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/29/2008 8:29:44 PM   
Over the Hill


Posts: 528
Joined: 3/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spoonchucker

"I really don't like to get into "what if" scenarios, but, I wonder if my friend Lee was carrying CCW if he would have had a different outcome."

OTH,

If I recall correctly, your friend was hunting, and DID have a weapon, which was taken. It's sad, and unfortunate, but that weapon didn't help much. I'm sure there are statistics out there on this, but I suspect this tends to be the case. The "bad guys", know who they are, and what their intentions are. By the time YOU find out, it is most likely too late.



Spoon, I really try not to do the "what if's". After spending countless hours and nights especially, thinking about who, what, where, when and WHY? it happened, with the little information available, it MAY have been more even odds if he had a semi-pistol than a manually operated deer rifle. It was just pure speculation on my part out of frustration because the murderer has not been caught. Everyday we pray for strength for his family and for the police to get information to arrest who ever did it so they can be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law will allow. Until that time, it is like an open wound, there is no healing or closure. (sorry for getting side tracked)

I do agree with you that the bad guys know what they're intentions are most of the time before you do. I just want the opportunity to defend myself and family if at all possible. I don't want to be led like a sheep to slaughter.





< Message edited by Over the Hill -- 7/1/2008 12:12:47 AM >

_____________________________

OVER THE HILL

Some people are like slinky's; not really good for anything, but, they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs...

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 49
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/30/2008 3:39:36 AM   
gobyking

 

Posts: 954
Status: offline 		I wanted to stay out of this but can't.

Over the hill,I really feel for you and the loss that all of your friends and family feels also.Your right,hindsight is 20/20 and there is no telling whether there were more than one assailant or what would have happened had he had a handgun.What if he was approached from behind?

I disagree with Spoon because I feel that he is a liberal from his posts and don't believe his central stance on most subjects.I am a Libertarian and am registered as such.More people carrying guns makes for a safer society IMO.Look at areas that have had a so called ban on handguns,how have the crime stats lowered?I don't know where you live Spoon,but most of us near the BIG CITY see what kind of results come from your middle of the road votes.Did I mention I lived near a St Pete in Florida in the last couple years in which they had shootings nightly?That is with our CURRENT LAWS.You can spin this whatever way you want,I'm not on the computer 24-7 and don't care if you respond to this but I'm sure you will with your unlimited time,but you and people like you are the pussification of this country whether you believe it or not.If you think you're somehow swaying some who are on the fence,you're right.They are the weak and are not sure of themselves and are thinking about choosing which side is going to be the winner.You love to make superior posts and paint yourself as the all knowing,but your not.Go ahead and make 5000 more posts,we of our convictions know who you are no matter how intelligent you type.We are all not as stupid as you think.

On another subject,I think we should have an ABSOLUTE BAN on gun shows.Only the shady and odd are buying guns there.Don't bring up some BS about it because I worked for my dad for 5 years at these events seeing the neo-nazi,indigent,and nefarious characters who came there to buy guns and ammo.These outing should be ALL OUTLAWED.Why can't you go into a legal gun store and buy a gun?Got something to hide?

This rare happening to the young man could have happened to some of us hunters for sure.It was a terrible tradegy to a young man with a bright future.Don't spin this into a Republican vs Democrat dispute.

Nothing any law could produce would have prevented what happened to this fine young man.IT SUCKS.

Spoon,you believe all the spew you post,you're not always right and I won't be responding MUCH to it because I have a life.YOU DO NOT.Spin away.

(in reply to Over the Hill)
Post #: 50
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/30/2008 7:44:39 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		i been out away for 3 days and come back to a great discussion,,, 1st,, its funny some of you can put down conservatives,,but never bash liberals,,real middle,right,,,, rush and hannity issue,,i bet you never listened to a ,lets say a week of their shows,, cause they arent far right as you think,, they talk politics and give their opinion,, which can be proved on anything they say, they mention sources always,, they question bush and company also on policy,,, never catch main stream media question a liberal on their stance,, NBC,CBS,ABC,CNN,never questioned obama on none of his CHANGE AGENDAS, never ask what change,never ask the tough question,,,supreme court ruling, 5/4, should have been 9/0,, liberal judges by republican pres., only ones the libs would approve,, its just funny how you all claim to be middle but bash only the right,,, how can you say youre anti-abortion but lean to the left,,3,000/babies a day,killed,,, how can you complain about youre life being screwed by bush but vote for a canidate who is raising youre taxes,, put down oil company profits ,but youre govt makes 2.5 times that off the tax of oil,,, heard an economists today , he said on fed land ,govt gets 25% off top before BIG OIL,starts to pay their operating expenses and taxes out of the remaining 75%.. that only 1.4%, goes to corp insiders in oil, rest goes to pension funds,401's, teacher pensions, exploration costs ,,,, 2 party system doesnt work,need a third to make other two think,,

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

(in reply to gobyking)
Post #: 51
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/30/2008 8:24:47 PM   
jonnyfishon

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline 		Let me think, June stock market,the worst since the great depression? This situation is far more futile than the 1930's. I blame the CEO of our country(BUSH) and the rest of his staff(congress ,rep or dem)period. You dont go after the previous CEO if the company fails. Dont worry you bush fans, he will be just fine. Living off his stolen money we so happily gave him.

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 52
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/30/2008 8:30:23 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		"We are all not as stupid as you think."

I never suggested you are stupid. But since your only counter to any of my arguements, is to place a label on me, it doesn't speak much for your position. IE:

"I disagree with Spoon because I feel that he is a liberal from his posts and don't believe his central stance on most subjects."

Present ANY proof, to invalidate anything I post, and I would be more than happy to listen.

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 53
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/30/2008 8:42:38 PM   
spoonchucker


Posts: 5905
Status: online 		Keep believing Rock

Keep believing, that a 1.5% increase in production ( the HIGH estimate of what ANWR will provide ), will lower prices by 25%.

Keep believing, that big oil is chomping at the bit to go get it, and sell it to you cheap. Even though they are sitting on over 8,000 leases, with the potential of more oil than ANWR contains.

Keep believing, that those CEO's who defrauded their own companies, employees, and stockholders, are your friends, and did it all to help you. So we should de-regulate them, and make it even easier.

Keep believing, that deficit spending, and out of control consumerism, is a good thing.

Keep believing the economy is still strong, regarless of the facts.

Keep believing that things, and people are ALL conservative, or ALL liberal.

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 54
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/30/2008 9:14:36 PM   
ROCKHARD


Posts: 807
Joined: 10/13/2007
Status: offline 		dont you get it,jonny,numbers are fixed to make you think its bad,,,, and spoon,, them leases you mentioned,are 8 yr lease,takes up to 7 yrs to get all permits ok'ed,, they have a yr to drill ,,worth it....you know and i know the dems dont want drilling,,they want high prices and a stalled economy to benefit them in elections,,, go look it up how the votes are going in congress,the libs are against it,,, its no hidden secret,,, yea bush rose the deficit out of reach, cause he and the other big time republicans act like libs,big govt,,tons of spending,,,economy slow ,not near recession,,,  north dakota is booming,low taxes,business expansion,etc.,, most western states are doing good,, its just this northeast ,unionized work states that arent,,dont think that isnt a fact,,, michigan is a dem run state,,pitiful, ohio,pitiful, also dems,,pa ,also dem run,(gov), not far from pitiful... right to work states are booming,,,jonny, look who  has the most millionares in congress and senate,libs 2 to 1 over republicans,, dems are in bed with so many political action groups you cant count em all,,, spoon ,i vote middle,do you,,sounds like you are more left than middle,, youre posts say it,,, i never defend bush on policy,but i do defend as far as he not the only blame,,   gas prices risen 75% since dems took control of congress,,still waiting for pelosi to lower them...

_____________________________

WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE,, SOME MEN YOU JUST CANT REACH

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 55
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/30/2008 9:45:56 PM   
jonnyfishon

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline 		DONT STOP BELIEVING. THE NUMBERS DO SCARE ME. THE FACTS REALLY SCARE ME. I WISH I HAD YOUR FACTS(DREAMS) SO I CAN SLEEP BETTER AT NIGHT. DONT YOU GET IT, WE ARE IN A RECESSION. NOT NEAR A RECESSION, CHANGE YOUR NEWS SOURCE ,PLEASE. 

(in reply to ROCKHARD)
Post #: 56
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/30/2008 10:07:35 PM   
S-10

 

Posts: 1571
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		We may be in a recession but I still have to wait in line to get into a good resturant and the casinos are wall to wall people on the weekends. Hope your right so I will have the steelhead creeks to myself this fall. Fat chance

(in reply to jonnyfishon)
Post #: 57
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/30/2008 10:07:43 PM   
gobyking

 

Posts: 954
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spoonchucker


Present ANY proof, to invalidate anything I post, and I would be more than happy to listen.

It is an opinion of mine,I am allowed to have it.Just like you have yours.It is MY OPINION that you post a lot of stuff that is very far left,not middle of the road.Thus,some of your views on many things are in my opinion wrong.Take it however you want.I have some views that are more conservative(i.e. gun ownership/laws,more severe penalties for criminals) and some very liberal views(get away from having special interest groups in Reps pockets,Bush is not good and has not been for our country and has only hurt it).

I see your posts as right out of one sides playbook and that is what is wrong.Division of the masses into two opposing groups is the true way to divide and conquer.I just made that up but it sounds good anyway,might make it my signature.

(in reply to spoonchucker)
Post #: 58
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/30/2008 10:33:59 PM   
jonnyfishon

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: 2/7/2008
Status: offline 		CAUSES OF A RECESSION.
  • SPECULATION
  • CURRENCY CRISES
  • INFLATION
  • NATIONAL DEBT

Every thing is just dandy.



< Message edited by jonnyfishon -- 6/30/2008 10:35:29 PM >

(in reply to gobyking)
Post #: 59
RE: survived another scare......... - 6/30/2008 11:58:43 PM   
rapala11

 

Posts: 2709
Joined: 3/5/2006
Status: offline 		did you guys ever think that while we argue as to who gets to watch the front door, the thief is going in the back door?  why does pride make one defend what he knows in his heart is not right.  point being, we are in a bad way in this country right now, and things are not going to get better until we all get involved and try to change things.  somebody who truly loves this country would try to change things for the better.  a patriot is not afraid to dissent.  we need some change.  oil, recession, war, joblessness, weakened dollar.....all these have become malignant in the last seven years.  this is NOT about liberals vs. democrats.  this is about a few hundred men and women who have manipulated things for their benefit and their special interests.  (and guys like hannity and limbaugh are the mouthpieces for those who do wrong at our expense).  say what you will, but in the last seven years, even in the last twenty years, things have gotten real bad for the middle class in the country.

if you really want to feel bad about defending the status quo, read about the pension benefits of our elected officials.  greed at its finest.

spoon and jonny...don't you guys dare quit caring.  we need people who are not afraid to be ridiculed because the fight for what is right.

_____________________________

silence means consent

..."Old men start wars...young men die in them."

(in reply to jonnyfishon)
Post #: 60
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