RE: human feces in raystown waters

RE: human feces in raystown waters

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RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/2/2008 12:19:18 PM

glenp

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....and it does matter how many cows. The original post to which I responded stated that there was manure from 1000 cows being dumped into Spruce. Regardless of the way you try to skirt the issue, that statement was blatantly false.

I would guess there were cows in Spruce Creek long before you were born. When I was young, farmers were much more likely to allow cows free access to streams. I would be more inclined to think that pesticide use by farmers may be the cause of the decline of bug life.

Or, and this we frequently forget - streams and ecosystems go through natural and unexplainable changes.

(in reply to glenp)

Post #: 61

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/2/2008 12:52:44 PM

SilverKype

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There, no at that time. I'm not going to sit in some guys driveway and wait for them to walk over to it either .. just to prove what I already know.

Doesn't matter anyway. They are on a hill slanted towards the creek only a few yards away. Don't play dumb. Sounds to me like you DO have some type of agenda. Sounds like your very unfamiliar with Spruce Creek too, or act like it. ANYONE who spends time in the area knows the deal and the smell, after a rain.

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Post #: 62

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/2/2008 12:56:28 PM

SilverKype

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No, really cow numbers don't matter. You said, as stated below >>

"and I can tell you that their manure does not go into the creek. Prove to me that it does...that's right...you can't because it doesn't."

quote:

ORIGINAL: glenp

I am fully aware of Harpster's cow numbers...and I can tell you that their manure does not go into the creek. Prove to me that it does...that's right...you can't because it doesn't. DEP keeps a close eye on these kinds of things. Farmers spend huge $$ on nutrient plans. Incidentally, Harpster's manure storage is far from the creek. I just get tired of the kind of crap that was passed off as factual here.

It most certainly does.

I don't care what Shawn said about numbers. My point is that it happens.

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Post #: 63

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/2/2008 1:55:36 PM

thedrake

Posts: 1529
Joined: 11/14/2005
From: Hollidaysburg, PA
Status: online

I have no doubt whatsoever that manure ends up in spruce creek. If the stream smells like poo, it's poo. Nothing else smells like manure.

As I said earlier, the manure does not have to be dumped into the creek for it to end up there. Anything you spread on the soil, can get into groundwater. Spruce Creek is spring fed from the springs around all the farms. Look at the problems around the Spring Cove area. There have been a lot of springs that have been ruined because of Agriculture. If I can find the newspaper article about it, i'll post it.

As for aquaholic's questions: Agriculture has been going on for a long time on Spruce Creek, and the hatches there have been diminishing for a long time as well.

< Message edited by thedrake -- 7/2/2008 1:57:39 PM >

(in reply to SilverKype)

Post #: 64

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/2/2008 2:05:49 PM

thedrake

Posts: 1529
Joined: 11/14/2005
From: Hollidaysburg, PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: glenp

Or, and this we frequently forget - streams and ecosystems go through natural and unexplainable changes.

Yeah, in this case Spruce Creek is going through natural and unexplainable changes............only near the farms.

(in reply to glenp)

Post #: 65

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/2/2008 2:39:37 PM

thedrake

Posts: 1529
Joined: 11/14/2005
From: Hollidaysburg, PA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

No, really cow numbers don't matter. You said, as stated below >>

"and I can tell you that their manure does not go into the creek. Prove to me that it does...that's right...you can't because it doesn't."

quote:

ORIGINAL: glenp

I am fully aware of Harpster's cow numbers...and I can tell you that their manure does not go into the creek. Prove to me that it does...that's right...you can't because it doesn't. DEP keeps a close eye on these kinds of things. Farmers spend huge $$ on nutrient plans. Incidentally, Harpster's manure storage is far from the creek. I just get tired of the kind of crap that was passed off as factual here.

It most certainly does.

I don't care what Shawn said about numbers. My point is that it happens.

I don't care what Shawn says either

It is obvious to us that know duncsdad, that he is not being completely serious, it was merely a humorous exageration.

(in reply to SilverKype)

Post #: 66

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/2/2008 4:05:55 PM

glenp

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Joined: 4/10/2005
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Oh i get it...now that you have been caught making and supporting statements that are blatantly false (1000 cows dumping their waste daily), now it was only a humourous exaggeration!

I do not even live close to Spruce Creek...I do not personally know any farmer who has land bordering Spruce Creek. I do work in the private sector of the ag industry. We constantly deal with uninformed people making assinine statements and trying to pass them off as fact.

This is part of the tension we deal with in this great country between cheap, easily available food and environmental issues.

I would guess you guys are fly fishermen...your desire for pure pristine fishing amuses me. Those "native" browns and rainbows are not native at all. The are an invasive species. I can tell you that 1000 years ago, there were no brown trout or rainbow trout in Spruce Creek. Yet that change in aquaculture is applauded. How ironic - the fish you seek are the result of human intervention.

Anyway...I have thoroughly enjoyed this dialogue!

(in reply to thedrake)

Post #: 67

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/2/2008 5:55:31 PM

tommybanzai

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amen.... i am tired about hearing people bicker about spruce creek.... like its the only trout stream in PA or something

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Post #: 68

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/3/2008 1:04:52 AM

thedrake

Posts: 1529
Joined: 11/14/2005
From: Hollidaysburg, PA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: glenp

Oh i get it...now that you have been caught making and supporting statements that are blatantly false (1000 cows dumping their waste daily), now it was only a humourous exaggeration!

I do not even live close to Spruce Creek...I do not personally know any farmer who has land bordering Spruce Creek. I do work in the private sector of the ag industry. We constantly deal with uninformed people making assinine statements and trying to pass them off as fact.

This is part of the tension we deal with in this great country between cheap, easily available food and environmental issues.

I would guess you guys are fly fishermen...your desire for pure pristine fishing amuses me. Those "native" browns and rainbows are not native at all. The are an invasive species. I can tell you that 1000 years ago, there were no brown trout or rainbow trout in Spruce Creek. Yet that change in aquaculture is applauded. How ironic - the fish you seek are the result of human intervention.

Anyway...I have thoroughly enjoyed this dialogue!

I did not make the statement that 1000 cows were dumping their waste directly in spruce. I made that statement that it gets there through run-off and through groundwater.

Please point out where I mentioned the trout in Spruce Creek are native. I did not at any point make that statement. Many are wild, and many are stocked. None are native. Regardless, I still enjoy catching them. That being said, it's not the fish that are being killed off, its the mayfies and caddisflies which are the fishes food that are being diminished. Kill them off, and you've killed the fishery. Not only the trout, but the truly native species in the creek.

Yes, you got me, I am a fly fisherman. I am one of those guys who stand in the water in Spruce Creek, while it smells like manure.

I'll say it again, if the creek smells like manure, there is manure in the creek. If I, for whatever reason walked near a farm and my shoes smelled like manure when I got home, should I believe it's anything else but manure on my shoe? If your answer is no, then why should I believe the water in a stream that smells like manure, and runs through farms, smells that way because of anything other than manure?

I am not saying any of this with an agenda against agriculture. If I believed the degradation of spruce creek was because of anything else, I would be posting about it. I understand the importance of agriculture, but I dont have to like what is does to one of my favorite trout streams.

< Message edited by thedrake -- 7/3/2008 1:19:31 AM >

(in reply to glenp)

Post #: 69

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/3/2008 2:00:15 AM

cjbs2003

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Joined: 1/29/2008
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WOW! And I thought my post about killing carp caused a lot of heat!!! So the question becomes, since the creek smells like poop, what would The Drake or anyone else who is upset over what has happened to Spruce Creek like to be done about it?

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Post #: 70

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/3/2008 7:43:13 AM

SilverKype

Posts: 3861
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: State
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: glenp

Oh i get it...now that you have been caught making and supporting statements that are blatantly false (1000 cows dumping their waste daily), now it was only a humourous exaggeration!

I do not even live close to Spruce Creek...I do not personally know any farmer who has land bordering Spruce Creek. I do work in the private sector of the ag industry. We constantly deal with uninformed people making assinine statements and trying to pass them off as fact.

This is part of the tension we deal with in this great country between cheap, easily available food and environmental issues.

I would guess you guys are fly fishermen...your desire for pure pristine fishing amuses me. Those "native" browns and rainbows are not native at all. The are an invasive species. I can tell you that 1000 years ago, there were no brown trout or rainbow trout in Spruce Creek. Yet that change in aquaculture is applauded. How ironic - the fish you seek are the result of human intervention.

Anyway...I have thoroughly enjoyed this dialogue!

Oh i get it ... I stated that Shawn wasn't serious at the beginning but you musta forgot.

I figured you where a poop lover. Maybe you'd like to come down to the area streams just below the poop areas and take a few sips. Perhaps wait until a rain. Yummy. slurp slurp.

No brown or rainbows here long ago? Really? You are SO intelligent. I'm impressed!! LOL

< Message edited by SilverKype -- 7/3/2008 7:45:24 AM >

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Post #: 71

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/3/2008 12:29:49 PM

glenp

Posts: 82
Joined: 4/10/2005
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Kype

be careful...your maturity level is starting to show!

(in reply to SilverKype)

Post #: 72

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/3/2008 12:32:21 PM

glenp

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Joined: 4/10/2005
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quote:

So the question becomes, since the creek smells like poop, what would The Drake or anyone else who is upset over what has happened to Spruce Creek like to be done about it?

Good question. What are the solutions?

(in reply to glenp)

Post #: 73

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/3/2008 12:54:14 PM

SilverKype

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From: State
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I didn't realize I was under surveillance.

< Message edited by SilverKype -- 7/3/2008 12:55:57 PM >

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Post #: 74

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/3/2008 1:01:35 PM

spoonchucker

Posts: 5905
Status: online

Maybe a look at the possible cause of what appears to be increasing runoff over, and through the farmlands. Perhaps developement above them, or clearing on them. THEN you can look at possible solutions, such as wooded buffer zones.

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Post #: 75

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/3/2008 8:00:55 PM

salmotrutta

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Please keep this going. I'm just starting to get entertained. Moooooooo!

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Post #: 76

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/4/2008 10:36:39 AM

duncsdad

Posts: 1277
Status: online

GlenP,

Sorry I haven't responded earlier, but I was on vacation.

Wow, you really know your poop about poop. Great!!!

Now work on reading comprehension.

Here is what I wrote:

A 28 mile long, sometime 150 foot deep lake is now made environmentally a disaster over some human waste from an extremely small percentage of its users, yet over 1000 cattle dumping their waste daily in the Spruce Creek watershed which contains a stream that is measured in feet across and sometimes inches deep is of no concern.

For some reason, you find this nonfactual. I don't know why.

Is Raystown a 28 mile long, sometime 150 foot deep lake?

Yes.

Is there a very small percentage of its users that may be dumping human feces into it?

Yes.

Are there over 1000 cattle in the Spruce Creek watershed?

Yes.

Do those cattle dump in the Spruce Creek watershed?

Yes.

Does Spruce Creek run through the Spruce Creek watershed?

Yes.

Can Spruce Creek be most accurately measured in feet across and inches deep?

Yes.

So what is nonfactual?

Did I write that the cattle were dumping in Spruce Creek?

No. I wrote that they were dumping in the watershed. And unless they cross a mountain in one direction or another, they do.

Did I write that the cattle were causing an environmental issue in Spruce Creek?

No. I wrote that it was of no concern. Although from all the posts here, apparently it is of some concern, especially if DEP is looking into it.

Did I write that I was anti-ag?

No. As a matter of fact, as a devote carnivore, I like cattle, especially grilled, with a little marinate of Cajun butter, red wine, Terriyaki sauce and raw cane sugar, then topped with blue cheese.

My only point, and as was pointed out by several others that it was sarcastic in nature, was that when the amount of cow patties in ratio to the amount of water in the Spruce Creek watershed is extremely large when contrasted to the amount of human Baby Ruths in the volume of Raystown, and that it is ironic that the media would make front page headlines and TV lead stories out of the Raystown issue. It must have been what is known in the journalism biz as a "slow news day."

You seemed to have read a whole lot more into the statement that what was written.

Next time, take a deep breath, read slowly, and understand each word and its relationship with the others before blasting someone for what you thought they wrote vs. what they actually wrote.

And remember, there are many decaffeinated brands on the market that are just as tasty.

_____________________________

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All Fishermen are liars except you and me. And I'm not too sure about you.

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Post #: 77

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/4/2008 7:58:49 PM

aquaholic2

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Amen, Duncsdad

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Post #: 78

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/5/2008 9:14:13 PM

Kokanee Killer

Posts: 465
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From: Parts unknown
Status: online

way to go this makes up for a slow news night,but remember,no one of us knows more than all of us

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Post #: 79

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/6/2008 2:45:22 AM

kyler16

Posts: 1617
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From: formally johnstown currently Salix
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quote:

I am amazed at how quickly the subject veered from Raystown to Spruce Creek!

I just find it hilarious that Both involve 1 person in some way? lmao. Can you say ironic?

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Post #: 80

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/6/2008 9:09:49 PM

CallJonyCochran

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Sorry to keep this going on the wrong wrong track.

I'm no limnology expert but I think that some people are barking up the wrong tree with the increased nutrients = low oxygen = decreased insects.

I believe that the increased nitrates and phosphates would increase phyto/zooplankton populations which would increase aquatic macroinvertebrate productivity. In most cold/cool water streams dissolved oxygen is usally not a problem, I think you would have to see huge increases in algea production to see a total die off of insect populations in stream like Spruce Ck. According to the Juniata College report, phosphoros is the limiting nutrient, and the only big increase of P was seen in Sept., and that time of year days are relatively short and water is pretty cool to produce big algal blooms that will limit dissolved oxygen.

You may see a species shift but not a die off. That said it's been proven time and again that ag and trout streams don't mix well and the insect die off and land use are probably directly correlated.

If it has already been proven that the insect decline is a result of low dissolved oxygen please disregaurd my previous babble.

Have a nice day

(in reply to kyler16)

Post #: 81

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/7/2008 5:29:33 AM

salmotrutta

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WTF?

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Post #: 82

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/7/2008 8:30:39 AM

glenp

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Duncsdad

But is sure was fun!!

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Post #: 83

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/7/2008 5:39:31 PM

salmotrutta

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Funny. All this time I thought the thread was called human fences. No wonder the crap is so deep.

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Post #: 84

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/11/2008 2:41:52 AM

cjbs2003

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4 days without a post! Thank God!

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Post #: 85

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/11/2008 9:09:35 AM

glenp

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Sorry for the lack of posts! I have been very busy.

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Post #: 86

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/12/2008 12:31:35 PM

duncsdad

Posts: 1277
Status: online

FENCE

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Duncsdad

All Fishermen are liars except you and me. And I'm not too sure about you.

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Post #: 87

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/12/2008 4:23:54 PM

glenp

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I hear that the human fences are causing a problem in raystown...

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Post #: 88

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/15/2008 9:21:14 AM

SilverKype

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Isn't it ironic that there was a big spill of manure on route 350 where it meets Old Mill rd. towards Huntingdon Furnace yesterday. The guys were pushing it down over the bank with the backside of brooms. ..

...right down into the bank of warriors mark run.

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Post #: 89

RE: human feces in raystown waters - 7/15/2008 11:29:58 AM

thedrake

Posts: 1529
Joined: 11/14/2005
From: Hollidaysburg, PA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

Isn't it ironic that there was a big spill of manure on route 350 where it meets Old Mill rd. towards Huntingdon Furnace yesterday. The guys were pushing it down over the bank with the backside of brooms. ..

...right down into the bank of warriors mark run.

......which is part of the spruce creek watershed.

(in reply to SilverKype)

Post #: 90

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