Hey Kype... (Full Version)

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griffon -> Hey Kype... (5/13/2008 9:56:58 AM)

If you didn't see this, I thought you might be interested.  A while back there was a discussion about carrying handguns in Archery.  My stance was and is that you never know what might happen and an ounce of prevention is worth...  I cannot find the original post, but I remember listing bear attacks throughout the country and said that it was only a matter of time until it happened in PA.  Well,  guess what...


I think I will continue to pack the heat when I am out on the streams or in the woods...

Bear injures woman, kills dog in Lycoming County


Tuesday, May 13, 2008

MONTOURSVILLE - A bear injured a 44-year-old Lycoming County woman and killed her dog Monday night, authorities said.
The woman was taken to Williamsport Hospital, but her name and condition were not available at press time, officials said. The bear escaped.
The woman suffered arm and leg injuries and was bleeding from the head, according to emergency responders. The attack took place about 9:20 p.m., about 50 feet from her Plunketts Creek Twp. home's patio, officials said. Firefighters said the dog might have surprised the bear in the dark.




SilverKype -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/13/2008 10:14:28 AM)


The fact is:  If people are concerned about their well being.



There's one.






griffon -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/13/2008 10:25:10 AM)

I am not missing the point Kype,  I do wear a harness.  I wear my seatbelt in the truck too...  I also carry.  The risk is small, but it is always present.  I have spent enough time in the Canadian Wilderness and several other places to realize that bears  and Mother Nature can be a force to be reckoned with.  Actually it surprises me that more trout fishermen are not mauled by angry sows with cubs.  I am no psychic, but it is only a matter of time and coyote attacks will also start to show up on the radar in this part of the country. 

 



dakota man -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/13/2008 11:28:08 AM)

Griffon: I live in the Adirondack Mts of up state NY. Spent the last 40 years chasing big whitetails and trout fishing in the back country. Often back in over 20 miles from the nearest road. I carry a Kimber 45 with me everywhere. It's big country up here, very unforgiving. Just two years ago we had heavy snow in Oct that took the life of two men who just were not prepared. I've had to use my handgun a few time for sure. Anyone who's ever come face to face with a bear or pack of coyotes in the dark knows what I'm talking about. Be safe, carry.



SilverKype -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/13/2008 11:33:24 AM)

If you're not missing the point then why did you bring it up?



griffon -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/13/2008 2:01:30 PM)

Because I feel you were missing the point then and perhaps you still are. You had to know that if this happened in PA within a short time of our discussion you would at least be called out a little bit.  If I remember correctly your argument at the time had nothing to do with treestand harnesses, but rather the idea that you felt noone should be allowed to carry hanguns during archery season as there were no dangers to people (particularly bears).  I simply disagreed with you (still do). 



SilverKype -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/13/2008 2:31:37 PM)

Yes, you aren't remembering correctly.  I think you missed the point long ago.   Here is what I said in a bunch of posts...



Guess I just don't live in fear, maybe I should. You gentlemen hunt in the hood?

Do we get on planes (geesh..this is FAR more dangerous these days)? Wear seatbeats? How about smoke? Drink? Exercise to reduce the chance of heart attack? How about just drive an automobile?? Chance of an accident is 1:8. What's the ratio of getting killed by a crazy dude in the woods?

Are you guys going to carry your handgun to Church? A movie? The mall? On your daily commute? How about to work? Out to dinner? What about while sleeping in your home? Well guess what .. you've got a greater chance in getting attacked in these situations than you do in a treestand. If you answered no to ANY of these questions, perhaps there's something more than just crazy people that you fear in the woods.

...I guess I just see situations that are FAR more likely to happen than someone psycho killing me in the woods. I guess it'd be just DUMB to NOT carry a handgun in all situations.

If someone REALLY is out to get you..do you really think you're going to see it coming? If some pyscho is going to surprise you at the vehicle in the dark and threaten your life, do you really believe they are 1) going to allow you to get your handgun 2) even give you time to. What if they want money and hold a gun to you? You going to give the money or try to pull the gun??

How about some pyscho HUNTER? Hope you don't claim a deer he shot at (although this situation is unlikely too happen, it's STILL more likely to happen than a pyscho with no motive). How about rifle season in general? FAR more likely to be killed by a bullet but we still do it.

a bear .. truthfully, the only chance you have at ever getting attacked by a black bear is by COMPLETELY surprising it .. you think you're going to get your handgun out in time during the struggle for life? Do you think it would even kill you? Possible, not probable.

Silly silly law.. that does little more than potentially put more people out there that do not belong there because of an unfair advantage. Of course the value of a human life outweighs the value of a poaching law but ..

My point being, while protection, safety, and security are always first on my mind, there are countless situations we do EVERYDAY where I've got expotential chances of being killed or harmed compared to being in the Pennsylvania woods.
 
Furthermore, 1 in 3 treestand hunters over their lifetime have some sort of treestand accident.. I hope we never get to hear where a hunter was injured or killed by a treestand fall, yet had a handgun for protection.

I've simply thrown out some situations where handgun protection will do you little good .. and where handgun protection can do a lot of no good. It's good to see different perspectives of things, just as the right to bears comment was made. If we are so worried about politics and our freedom, then we should all be backing our political involved organizations, such as the ones above. All of us are concerned, yet not many do. Who's fault is that?!? The anti's?? Yeah .. those people just FEED off me.

I'm with S-10, I see very little need for one. A great win politically, let's just hope it doesn't backfire. I'd rather concentrate my efforts/money on treestand safety.
 
Hope all you carriers wear a safety harness .. wear your seatbelts while driving, don't smoke,..etc.. man, this list could go on and on.

The risk analysis of these situations is very one sided. If you disagree .. find out how many people get hurt (or die) from treestand falls (1 in 3), car crashes, and smoking.

I do not understand why 1 in 3 archers fall from treestands. I'll beat the horse, I HOPE no archer ever falls from a tree yet has a handgun for protection. To me, if that happens, the fella has his priorities a little mixed up.










thedrake -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/13/2008 4:24:42 PM)

Even after reading griffon's post about the unfortunate woman and her dog, I still wouldn't feel any more safe with a handgun in my hand in the deer woods or on the stream. Its very unfortunate what happened and i'm glad she is OK, but she was just as likely to be struck by lightning as she was to be hurt by a bear.

The chance of any situation arising where I would need it is so unlikely it wouldnt be worth me spending the money on a handgun. I talked to a guy fishing the little J about a year or 2 ago, who was carrying a large ruger revolver on his belt. He was in hip waders, because he said he could not carry his handgun on his belt and wear chest waders at the same time. Anyone who fishes the LJ knows you cant get away with wearing only hippers. This guy was severly limiting where he could fish, just because he felt unsafe without his gun. I'm glad I dont live in that kind of fear. He claimed he carried it mainly for rattlesnakes. I've never been in, and couldn't imagine a situation where I couldn't just walk away from a snake. I dont see where a gun could help him if that's his concern.

In the case of bears, i've seen a few in the woods while archery hunting. In fact, a couple years ago, I had one hanging out under my treestand on the first day of archery. It seemed very curious after it smelled where I had been standing, but after I made it aware of my presence, it fled the scene. I was nervous, but not afraid for my life. Even after that instance, I dont feel the need to carry a handgun.

My future brother-in-law carries a pistol just about everywhere he goes.... "Just incase". Recently, he was not allowed to get into a concert in Philadelphia, because he tried to walk in while packing. After the metal detectors went off, he and his wife went back to their car and drove over 3 hours home without going into the concert, because they felt it was their right to carry a concealed weapon into the concert if they wanted to, and they didn't feel safe without it.

I guess my point is: I'm glad I dont live in so much fear that I am afraid of whats behind every tree when i'm hunting, fishing, or out on the town. To me carrying a gun everywhere I go would just be a nuisance and would be restrictive to my lifestyle. I cant stand having a wallet in my pocket, so I know carrying a pistol on my belt or concealed would drive me even more nuts. Perhaps, someday i'll need a handgun but wont have one and will change my mind, but chance are overwhelming that I wont.

I do agree with silverkype, even though this is beside the point...There are plenty of guys who will be carrying a handgun while archery hunting "just incase" while they are 20ft up in a tree with no harness on to save their lives with a 33% chance of falling to the ground. It kind of reminds me of a close friend of mine who will not fly because the plane could crash, but doesnt wear a seatbelt while she is driving.

One more comment....I would bet a lot more deer will be killed illegally with those handguns carried in archery season, than the numbers of bears or other "threats" to our safety. We all know it's going to happen.

I'll end my rant there, its time for my nap [:)]



griffon -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/13/2008 9:54:36 PM)

I guess here is my list of reasons  and questions to Drake and Kype.  I can answer YES to each of these.  I have been fortunate to travel across North America (excluding Alaska and BC) by my own ambition and I have experienced some truly amazing memories.  I am sure you have had your own experiences where you would have felt a lot more secure with a handcannon on your side.

Have you ever been to Lake of the Woods in Canada and had a Bruin cut you off at your Cabin then pursue you until you made a hasty retreat to a neighboring camp?

Have you ever had a grizzly take down a cow elk less than 200 yards from you while fishing a small trout stream outside of Yellowstone?  To make matters worse, when the grizzly sees you retreating it makes a false charge to 40 yards before it finally backs off.

Have you ever wrestled a "tame" 950 lb. bear that moved so swift and powerfully that you wondered if you had breathed your last when he hit you so hard that every rib felt as though it would shatter?Gives a whole new perspective on what a wild animal might do.

Have you ever had a bruin invade your spike camp and tear through the tent you were sleeping in?

Have you ever set spike camp in the remotest part of Applalachia where towns consist of 6-10 ramshackled buildings and your only concern was being a scene in Deliverence?

Have you ever been surrounded by an estimated 100 coyotes after dark while you were trying to make your way back to camp as you hiked out from your archery stand?  If not, go hunt South Central Ohio in the Wayne National Forest area sometime...

Have you ever had a poacher shoot a deer less than 50 yards from your stand in the predawn while you were sitting there with a bow in hand? 

Have you ever been within a hundred yards of a PA bruin when it brought down a fawn?  Thus putting you right on top of a kill?  Perhaps you are not in danger, but perhaps you are...

Have you ever had a bruin wade out into the center of a trout stream right next to you before it noticed you?  Then, instead of running it started huffing and popping it's teeth at less than 10 yards while you backed up into the deepest part of the pool hoping it did not charge?

Have you ever had a full grown rottweiller jump off of a house porch and charge you while walking back to your vehicle from trout fishing?  Understanding that the charge did not end until the second shot ended the attack at less than 5 feet.

Has your best friend's sister ever been mauled severly by a dog while waiting at a bus stop in the country?  Two days later, were you attacked by the same Shepard while rabbit hunting and had to kill the animal which turned out to be rabid?

Have you ever fished a waterway near railroad tracks when illegal immigrants (hobos) get off the train close to your proximity and they see you as an easy mark with money?  Try fishing the rural Suesquehanna along the PA and NY border just about grape picking time on the Finger Lakes and you might get the chance.

These are just my stories and I am sure others could share some as well.  Those odds are getting a little higher aren't they?



thedrake -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/13/2008 11:15:12 PM)

"Those odds are getting a little higher aren't they?"

Not really, I'm never around grizzly bears, hobos, illegal immigrants or large packs of coyotes. Perhaps if I was, my thoughts would be different. Where I hunt fish and live I don't feel in danger. I don't necessarilly have an issue with anyone carrying protection, as it is their right, but nobody will convince me that I need it.



DanesDad -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 12:54:11 AM)

I dont need it either.  Maybe if I hunted or fished in Grizzly country, I'd feel different.



bingsbaits -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 6:28:48 AM)

I got a question on that issue. If you are carrying your pistol during archery can you pop a coyote with your pistol??



dpms -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 7:53:05 AM)

Saw that story to Griffon and I thought of the thread you are referring too.

Call me a hardliner but any sportsman or woman that wants to rationalize away any advancement in our second ammendment rights is a virus from within.

Those are the ones that worry me most.



SilverKype -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 8:22:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: griffon

I guess here is my list of reasons  and questions to Drake and Kype.  I can answer YES to each of these.  I have been fortunate to travel across North America (excluding Alaska and BC) by my own ambition and I have experienced some truly amazing memories.  I am sure you have had your own experiences where you would have felt a lot more secure with a handcannon on your side.

Have you ever been to Lake of the Woods in Canada and had a Bruin cut you off at your Cabin then pursue you until you made a hasty retreat to a neighboring camp?

Have you ever had a grizzly take down a cow elk less than 200 yards from you while fishing a small trout stream outside of Yellowstone?  To make matters worse, when the grizzly sees you retreating it makes a false charge to 40 yards before it finally backs off.

Have you ever wrestled a "tame" 950 lb. bear that moved so swift and powerfully that you wondered if you had breathed your last when he hit you so hard that every rib felt as though it would shatter?Gives a whole new perspective on what a wild animal might do.

Have you ever had a bruin invade your spike camp and tear through the tent you were sleeping in?

Have you ever set spike camp in the remotest part of Applalachia where towns consist of 6-10 ramshackled buildings and your only concern was being a scene in Deliverence?

Have you ever been surrounded by an estimated 100 coyotes after dark while you were trying to make your way back to camp as you hiked out from your archery stand?  If not, go hunt South Central Ohio in the Wayne National Forest area sometime...

Have you ever had a poacher shoot a deer less than 50 yards from your stand in the predawn while you were sitting there with a bow in hand? 

Have you ever been within a hundred yards of a PA bruin when it brought down a fawn?  Thus putting you right on top of a kill?  Perhaps you are not in danger, but perhaps you are...

Have you ever had a bruin wade out into the center of a trout stream right next to you before it noticed you?  Then, instead of running it started huffing and popping it's teeth at less than 10 yards while you backed up into the deepest part of the pool hoping it did not charge?

Have you ever had a full grown rottweiller jump off of a house porch and charge you while walking back to your vehicle from trout fishing?  Understanding that the charge did not end until the second shot ended the attack at less than 5 feet.

Has your best friend's sister ever been mauled severly by a dog while waiting at a bus stop in the country?  Two days later, were you attacked by the same Shepard while rabbit hunting and had to kill the animal which turned out to be rabid?

Have you ever fished a waterway near railroad tracks when illegal immigrants (hobos) get off the train close to your proximity and they see you as an easy mark with money?  Try fishing the rural Suesquehanna along the PA and NY border just about grape picking time on the Finger Lakes and you might get the chance.

This is just my stories and I am sure others could share some as well.  Those odds are getting a little higher aren't they?



ahh.. exactly. 

I've got a question for you.

Why are you blowing this out of definition???

Back then, we were and now, are talking about PA.

But to answer your questions ans answer you answers:

Yes, I've been face to face with a grizzly and two cubs.  I got it on video camera.  Closer than 40 yards.

I also have been surrounded by coyotes stalking antelope.  I got that on the same camera.  They came up on the porch in Yellowstone to us.  [:)]

I live and hunt in the mountains.  I've get close to the animals you see as a threat every year, multiple times ... and yes, I've been surrounded by howling coyotes a mile from the truck in the dark.  Scary?  Certainly sends chills down your back.  Deadly??  Hmmm no.  Deadly to a small child?  Maybe. 

btw.. 100 coyote estimate??    Based on what?  Howling?  Sounds a little high to me.

I also have a black bear within feet coming right at me on camera.  Woulda ran me over if I wouldn't have spoken up.  I've had them within 6 feet from me on the ground.  We bot surprised each other.  I recently jumped a mother and two cubs at 15 yards.   What's the big deal?  Many of the times I see bears, they follow me.   If they really wanted to eat me, they would have done it by now.  I had one come back to me 4 times two years ago in archery.  The last time, I bent down, put my treestand on my back, turned around and there he was at 20 feet.  Followed me the whole way to the truck.   I didn't feel I was in any danger.  I was nervous, but it wasn't a life threatening situation.

I've been within 4 feet of two full grown doberman breathing down my neck on Conneaut.  I've been chased by dogs during my entire childhood.  It took a while to understand, that if I stand my ground, they'll bluff.  Certainly a dangerous situation, but I remained unharmed.  I had a dog on upper Walnut come REAL close.  Guess what, the water's edge is their border.   Never seen or heard of a dog jumping in water to attack someone. 

I've hunted Wayne National forest in Ohio.

So ... you mean to tell me you shot a dog before it even make contact with you??  I'll tell you what, if you're on MY property and MY dog attacks you, you better not be placing a bullet until your LIFE is in danger.  If I was ever to come outside to my dead dog and guy with a gun standing over it, without a scratch, there's going to be problems.  You're going to leave more harmed than what the dog would have done. 

Were you "attacked" by the shepard??  Doesn't sound like the rottweiler even got to you.  "second shot ended the attack at less than 5 feet"  -- what attack??  A charge?  Do you consider a charge an attack??   Did the shepard even touch you??  

---

For the one millionth time, I'm not questioning carrying for protection, I'm questioning if we are TRUELY concerned about safety, there are other instances far more likely to happen, that we should be focused on.  You apparently are still missing the point.  Maybe you should lock your door and stay inside forever.  The odds are safer in the woods of Pennsylvania, than in the public environment.

I agree with drake, the odds aren't getting higher.  You are expanding this discussion beyond the scope of the original content.



SilverKype -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 8:23:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dpms

Saw that story to Griffon and I thought of the thread you are referring too.

Call me a hardliner but any sportsman or woman that wants to rationalize away any advancement in our second ammendment rights is a virus from within.

Those are the ones that worry me most.


Who is questioning your second amendment??



dpms -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 8:39:43 AM)

I do not believe you are questioning the second ammendment.  You are rationalizing why someone should not carry if they choose.

The same as those that say there is no need for semi-automatic rifles or pistols, or high capacity magazines, or "assault weapons", or .50 calibers, or concealed carry, or firearm registration etc...

You should support, as a sportsman and gun owner, any advancement to our rights period.  Give a little and you play right into "thier" hands.



SilverKype -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 9:07:04 AM)

Where did I tell Griffon not to carry??  Where did I say WHY do you carry?  Where am I saying I do not support the fact that you carry?   No where.  I am rationalizing common sense in terms of safety, if we are concerned with living another day.  The sooner you get out of your political hole, the sooner you'll understand where I'm coming from.   That isn't going ot happen.   If a carrier shoots a dog without actual contact, that's giving "them" a little.



griffon -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 9:17:14 AM)

So ... you mean to tell me you shot a dog before it even make contact with you??  I'll tell you what, if you're on MY property and MY dog attacks you, you better not be placing a bullet until your LIFE is in danger.  If I was ever to come outside to my dead dog and guy with a gun standing over it, without a scratch, there's going to be problems.  You're going to leave more harmed than what the dog would have done. 

Were you "attacked" by the shepard??  Doesn't sound like the rottweiler even got to you.  "second shot ended the attack at less than 5 feet"  -- what attack??  A charge?  Do you consider a charge an attack??   Did the shepard even touch you??  


You bet,  I saw the Rotty come off the porch from a 100 yards and made sure that I was on the property across the road.  When he hit pavement the first round was fired with an immediate follow up that put him down.  The landowner came out and he was angry.  Too Bad. I told him to feel free to call the police or even better, I would call from my cell phone.  End of story, end of conversation and there is one less rotty along the Allegheny near Coudersport.  If you felt that you wanted to escalate the situation beyond that point then I would be more than willing to oblige you.  Just because you are the aggressor doesn't mean that you might not be stepping right into a good old fashion ass whooping.  Also, yes the shepard charged us and yes he was rabid and yes the girl who was bit had to undergo treatment. 

My feeling is that you take too many things for granted and are putting your well being in trusting that outside forces will not harm you.  I believe the Grizzly Man thought the same thing as did Steve Irwin as did Sigfried and Roy, not to mention countless others.  I choose to be more cautious and careful.  If I choose to carry a gun that is my right, if you choose not too that is your right. 



dpms -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 9:26:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

Where did I tell Griffon not to carry??  Where did I say WHY do you carry? 


You didn't directly and I never said you did.  You are rationalizing why someone does not have too. 

I understand were you are coming from.  "Common sense" guns laws are the mantra of the antis.  That is how they sell thier agenda to the those uneducated about guns. 




SilverKype -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 9:39:47 AM)

I take too many things for granted.  That's funny coming from someone that doesn't know me.  I never said outside forces will not harm me.  I putting my trust in the ability to make rational decisions about where I am and when I feel there is a need to protect myself.  I foresee a greater chance of danger in just about every other situation than the PA woods as danger.  I see a greater chance in an actual misfire while carrying equipment in the woods than a need for a pistol in PA.  If you want to label that as viral d, you go right ahead.  Irvin and Treadwell are HORRID examples of the everyday person not protecting themselves.  They went beyond the scope of common sense doing what they did.  It is your right to carry, and I'm not telling you not to.  But you better watch who's dog you shoot griffon, especially when you have no proof of harm or while on someone's property.  You're worried about some crazy guy, immigrant, bear, coyote, or dog??  Better watch out for a crazy landowner after you shoot his dog.  That's a danger right there.  It may cost you your life someday.




griffon -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 9:51:38 AM)

Fair enough... We aren't that far apart, but we will have no choice but to agree to disagree.  You will live your life how you wish and I will do the same.  I wish no ill will toward you, and I sincerely hope that you never encounter a situation where you have a need to throw down and find yourself unarmed.  This will be my last response on the thread.  Tight Lines, Griffon.



SilverKype -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 10:20:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bingsbaits

I got a question on that issue. If you are carrying your pistol during archery can you pop a coyote with your pistol??


Pretty sure that's not legal.  Pistol is for protection only.



dpms -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 10:43:26 AM)

That CCW pistol is for protection only unless the CCW pistol you are carrying is a legal sporting arm for the season or species that you are hunting.

Example being carrying a .357 revolver for protection during rifle deer season than you could use that revolver to shoot at a deer. 

If a game law states that you cannot carry a firearm while engaged in a hunting activity, and you use the pistol you are carrying with a CCW, than you would be breaking the game law and it is a fineable offense.



SilverKype -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 11:30:36 AM)

Here's something that happened last year.

A friend and I were out on the St. Joseph river fishing for skamania.  A friend told on about some skams on Range road in Berrien Springs.  The Joe is huge and certain people fish certain places.  You could spend a lifetime fishing it, and never run into another regular.  He warned if you get too close to people fishing in Berrian, they'll show you their pistol.  Just be careful.  The Joe is huge, little chance we'll run into problems, I thought.

The "D" was flooded and we were drove 8 hours one way to fish, so we headed to range road.  Upon arriving, we could see some skams chilling out in the river.  At this point, we headed down the cliff, got to the bottom.  There was a drunk guy there with a friend and his son.  The drunk guy wasn't fishing.  This guy was one of those guys you run into about every 10 years.  Spaced out, freakin' nutz in the head, you could just tell.  He proceeds to tell his friend "Hey -- these boys from PA."  He friend comes over and the drunk guy says .. hey, come back to the car, I've got something to show you.

Now, my friend and I headed back to the car, knowing that with this guy, there was nothing good for him to show us.  We suspected, he was going to attempt to hold us at gun point and rob us.  We got out of there before the drunk could get up the hill back to the vehicle.

Now, let's assume we hung around and went to his vehicle or that we showed up when he was at his vehicle.  Assume I was carrying a pistol.  At what point, do I pull the gun on him??  What if I pull on him then his friend pulls on me.  How do I pull the gun on him if he's already got one pointed in my face??  I can't.  Think about what you would have done and at what point you would have reacted.

My point is:  Common sense told me to avoid the situation all together.  Not likely a place I'll ever go back to.  If I couldn't have avoided the situation, how could I have prepared in time to protect myself?  I couldn't have.  If I put myself in that situation where I was at point blank, a pistol in a holster or on my belt would have done nothing.   Same with a bear.  Only time I fear there is a chance of me being attacked by a wild animal, is by completely surprising it and it going into defense mode.  There would be no time to react.  The two bears I've had within feet, I would have have no chance to respond in time.  The mother and cubs I jumped recently, don't think I would have had time to get ready for a shot.  The only thing to do, if this is a concern of mine is to stay out of the woods.  Some of you seem to think carrying makes immortal to disaster.

This is not some viral anti hunting supporting story.  It's a matter of an everyday situation, living life, and making the right decision.  It's has to do with its effectiveness.  I could give a rats ass if you think I'm supporting anti hunting because I don't think protection would have done anything in this situation.  I've done more to this date in terms of hunter safety classes/bowhunter education, and the future of hunting and putting forth effort to organizations that matter, for hunters, than most hunters in their lifetimes.  Some irresponsible hunter (remember my father was shot, so put yourself in my shoes before you speak) not identifying his target, gives the anti's more juice than my opinions.  Same as shooting an animal that's not on you.  I'm not rationalizing when someone doesn't not have to carry, I'm rationalizing what's best for the situation.  You are so one tract minded, you can't open your eyes to see the entire picture.  If you want to fight gun control, fight the good fight in Harrisburg, not against another hunter.

btw.. carrying in Yellowstone is illegal.



dpms -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 11:43:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverKype
If you want to fight gun control, fight the good fight in Harrisburg, not against another hunter.



Like I said, "common sense" gun laws are what sells.  The ultimate goal with these "common sense" laws are to heavily restrict our rights down the road.  Believe what you want.

I fight the good fight when I see something to fight, hunter or not. Jim Zumbo would be a good example of ignorance within our ranks.  If I cannot rely on a fellow hunter for supporting our second ammendment rights, regardless of the situation, the future looks bleak for my kids and thier kids when it comes to gun ownership.  That is how I see it.



SilverKype -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 11:56:07 AM)

DUDE.  WAKE UP.  I do support our right to bear arms.

I guess it'd be better for me to promote protection for every step you take, not because it's necessary, but because my rights may be taken away if I don't.  Everyone -- take your guns to church, not because you should but because you can.  GET REAL.



dpms -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 12:16:45 PM)

Dude.  Wake up.  You make arguements against the need to carry a concealed weapon, instead of saying that the expansion of our rights to carry concealed in Pa. was a good step in the advancement of our second ammendment rights.

You say you are for the second ammendment then offer nothing but reasons against it's purpose.

Your right, many times common sense will prevent you from getting into bad situations.  That has nothing to do with my right or yours to carry if we wish.  To continually make arguements that a concealed weapon is of minimal value makes me and many others question your support of our rights.

Ted Nugent would love to spend some time with you around the campfire.



SilverKype -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 12:29:41 PM)

It was a good step.  Every political battle we win for gun control is a good step towards our rights and ensures our future.  But that doesn't mean I'm against something because I see something as not necessary in all situations.  Like I said, you're so one tract minded you can't get out of your political hole.   Do you carry everywhere everyday because you CAN or only necessary?  I think we know the answer to that.  What a contradiction on your part if you don't carry everywhere. 

Have you ever met Ted Nugent?   Tell me about him and how anti-gun he is.




thedrake -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 12:36:23 PM)

Perhaps gun owners like Jon and I who dont feel as though we need to carry a firearm around every corner, make gun owners look better in the eyes of non gun owners, as compared to those who are "packing heat" even when they go to the grocery store.

If anything makes gun owners look rediculous, its people "packing" everywhere they go. Most people know they arent in danger at the grocery store or the mall, and when they hear of someone carrying a gun there, they view that person as crazy.

Just so nobody feels they have to remind me... I understand we have the right to carry a concealed weapon.



dpms -> RE: Hey Kype... (5/14/2008 12:42:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

It was a good step.  Every political battle we win for gun control is a good step towards our rights and ensures our future.  Do you carry everywhere everyday because you CAN or only necessary?  I think we know the answer to that.  What a contradiction on your part if you don't carry everywhere. 

Have you ever met Ted Nugent?   Tell me about him and how anti-gun he is.



Thank you for your admission.  After all of these discussion on this thread and others, that is the first recognition on your part that the change was good for gun owners.

When do I carry? When the urge strikes me.  I have carried at my nephews birthday party and I have not carried while trout fishing a city stream in Pittsburgh.  When I do carry, I value my rights even more. Why do I contradict myself if I do not carry all of the time? 

I have met Ted Nugent.  He is a riot and speaks with more "common sense" than most realize.  He can be polarizing and I realize that.  All sportsman and gun owners should hear him speak at some point.  Not sure where you were going with him being anti-gun?  Far from it.



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