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Nbobich -> Mingo (4/21/2008 8:39:19 PM)

Anyone doing any good on Mingo Creek?



Puffy -> RE: Mingo (4/22/2008 8:53:59 AM)

They need to take Mingo off the stocking list.  It's a trickle yearround.  They could replace it with Pigeon Creek, much more water, and right next to Mingo.



shemanese -> RE: Mingo (4/22/2008 9:00:44 AM)

Puffy, I have always thought the same thing and wonder why it has not been done. Most likely it has to do with the park and the influence of the county government.

Incidently, the low flows in Mingo that we see today are not indicators of the historical flow levels. Round about 1999 or so, long wall mining in the headwaters of Mingo and feeder streams caused the cutting off of ground water that fed those streams. In what seems like a strange turnabout I am reasonably confident a lot of this water ends up in Pigeon Creek via Maple Creek's activities.



SmallieKiller -> RE: Mingo (4/22/2008 9:07:43 AM)

Yeah, I don't understand that one either and as shemanese pointed out, the real answer is probably politics.  I was at Mingo this bast Saturday and it was a colossal waste of my time.  I was going to hit Peters, but since I had planned on fishing there on Sunday, I didn't want to spend both days there, so I went to Mingo.  wasted a couple hours of my life there.  Saw two fish and they were so spooked that it wasn't worth even fishing for them.  As I was leaving, there was a pile of people at the lower covered bridge, so I assume there were some fish in that hole. 

Any creek would be better than the drainage ditch that is Mingo.  Of course I'm not real sure why a lot of Turtle Creek is stocked either, but then again, I'm not a fisheries biologist, so what do I know...



HardCore Fisher -> RE: Mingo (4/22/2008 9:19:49 AM)

I stopped after work 1 day, 4-5 fish in the 1 covered bridge hole with me a 4 other people hovering over them, managed 1 brown, felt an guessed i was real lucky that day and other than that it is a waste of fish, Pigeon in my opinion wouldn't be bad but it has some pollution and it is algy infested already real bad, i stopped the other day do see if i could hook a carp on my fly rod but they weren't intersested.

Ronnie



JEB -> RE: Mingo (4/22/2008 11:21:55 AM)

I think al ot has to do with the PAFBC officer for that area. I know they stopped stocking Brady's Run creek in the fall due to low water levels at that time of year. I was told this was due the the WCO's input abouth the H2O levels. I wish thet still stocked it in the fall, nobody was there and good numbers were a constant ! Maybe if your concerns are directed to the WCO he might be able to get those fish put elswhere.



shemanese -> RE: Mingo (4/22/2008 2:30:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SmallieKiller

but then again, I'm not a fisheries biologist, so what do I know...


That highlights a point, though, that I believe warrants raising on here; the stocking of trout by PAFBC is not based soley on biology and water quality. I am not saying its wrong, but clearly the Commission has to and does consider other factors such as nearby population centers, other nearby trout waters, access, and other social factors. If stocking was done on strictly a water quality basis probably only a very few places would receive fish.

This all ties in well with the trout unlimited argument which goes roughly along the lines of stop stocking so many trout and focus on protecting quality water resources and rehabilitating those that have been damaged.



elephanthead -> RE: Mingo (4/22/2008 2:48:23 PM)

years ago it was a nice place to take a small child because of accessability and size and location (in a park) Would like to see it made childrens only (12 and under) The stream itself warrants that...



Livinfishin -> RE: Mingo (4/23/2008 11:13:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SmallieKiller

Yeah, I don't understand that one either and as shemanese pointed out, the real answer is probably politics.  I was at Mingo this bast Saturday and it was a colossal waste of my time.  I was going to hit Peters, but since I had planned on fishing there on Sunday, I didn't want to spend both days there, so I went to Mingo.  wasted a couple hours of my life there.  Saw two fish and they were so spooked that it wasn't worth even fishing for them.  As I was leaving, there was a pile of people at the lower covered bridge, so I assume there were some fish in that hole. 

Any creek would be better than the drainage ditch that is Mingo.  Of course I'm not real sure why a lot of Turtle Creek is stocked either, but then again, I'm not a fisheries biologist, so what do I know...


Politics and publicity are a major factor in both especially Turtle creek.  What I can't figure out for the life of me is why the PFBC doesn't stock the Yough River from Ohiopyle all the way downstream past West Newton.  I don't think people realize what a tremendous trout fishery (it already is to some extent) this river could be on nearly it's entire length.  And them saying it is a "warm water fishery only" from Connellsville to the mouth is absolute BUNK and BS.  I have caught trout in the riffles downstream from the Sutersville bridge in the middle of summer and the fish are healthy and spunky. And I also hear of trout being caught all the way down to the Boston bridge on a regular basis.  And the great thing about the river, other than it's size and length and water quality is that it is ALL PUBLIC WATER! Not to mention the fact that the bike trail follows the entire length of the river and provides unlimited access to fishermen.  Seems like a worthy investment to me, instead of stocking ditches and polluted creeks.



shemanese -> RE: Mingo (4/24/2008 4:55:33 AM)

I am not sure why the Commission stays away from the lower Yough. I bet it has something to do with the fact that they don't have to stock it because of the large number of clubs. So they just save their resources.

I believe to a certain extent the Commission interprets their water quality data, which I maintain is not their primary criteria for stocking, the way it wants to. Basically they have decided the lower Yough isn't trout water. That's their story and they're sticking to it. 

I think the clubs do a lot better job than the Commission would anyway and it's fine with me if the Commission stays away. The fishery is just fine without any government involvement and don't see any advantage of getting guys in green involved on a regular basis.



shemanese -> RE: Mingo (4/24/2008 5:07:39 AM)

For information on the factors the commission uses to stock trout go to this link:

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/trman98.htm#B.%20HATCHERY%20TROUT%20SUBPROGRAM%20IN

Then click on HATCHERY TROUT SUBPROGRAM in the table of contents outline.

Then you can evaluate a stream near year and ask the Commission why they don't stock it. But if you really want it done get your local state representative on your side first by making it clear its a winning issue for them.



Garrick_ -> RE: Mingo (4/24/2008 10:21:16 AM)

Hello,

I’m not sure of the quality of Mingo's water, or if they should be stocking elsewhere, but just to give it some credit, I’ve gone out to Mingo three times so far this year.

Opening day I caught 8 fish (only kept 5 of course), including a 23" rainbow, a 19" brown, and several smaller rainbows.

Weekend after the opener, my father and I fished for about 2 hours and together caught over 20 fish.

Took my wife out the day after me and my father did so well, and although we did hook a few, it was very slow.

The first day (opener) I was not in the park but downstream in private property. (make sure you get permission if you intend to fish here!) But the stream is much wider and deeper below the park, and I found the fishing much more enjoyable, and better than in the park itself. 

happy fishing =)



shemanese -> RE: Mingo (4/24/2008 1:03:26 PM)

Don't get me wrong I like Mingo Creek and the park. The water quality must be good as I have seen abundant mayflies and stoneflie nymphs.

But when compared to nearby Pigeon Creek one might begin to wonder what the difference is. It probably isn't water quality. The streams are fairly similar but Pigeon has a higher flow rate.

Mingo most assuredly has lost some flow since the long wall mining of its headwaters and tribs. So it's not surprising that when folks see the often anemic flow rate, they wonder why it gets trout and somewhere like Pigeon does not. 

A check of the Commission's rationale for stocking, on their website and a recognition of political realities gives a good indication why in my opinion. When one gets to that point the name Mingo can be substituted with the names of many other streams around the region. They get stocked for a variety reasons. Water quality and quantity are criteria but not necessarily the most important ones.





casts_by_fly -> RE: Mingo (4/24/2008 3:38:55 PM)

since those are my 'home' waters, I have a bit of insight on both. Pigeon creek has always had some quality problems with the various mines all along from bentleyville area down to Mon City. It does get warm in the summer, but no worse than mingo. The biggest problem is access. There aren't really any 'public' access or land along pigeon creek.

Mingo on the other hand has ~7 miles of water inside the park where anyone can park and fish easily. Someone in a wheelchair can fish large sections of the stream and still be in decent water. In the past mingo held a lot of water year round. The holes in the park were always deep and it would be nothing to have 6' of water under any of the big trees. The flowing sections would have riffles and runs with undercuts in a foot of water. Over the past 10-15 years, the stream has filled in a lot. Going through the park all of the bigger holes have silted in. The lower flows mean that the riffles and runs are barely enough to support insects let alone fish. Don't get me wrong, there are still plenty of holding spots to catch fish in. It just isn't the same stream as it used to be, and if there wasn't so much easy access so close to major population centers the F&BC probably wouldn't stock it. They certainly wouldn't add it to the stocking list right now if it weren't already.

Thanks
Rick



Nbobich -> RE: Mingo (4/28/2008 4:01:49 PM)

This weekend I was able to take a trip out to mingo and decided to take my girlfriend out there for a little fishing. I wasn’t sure if Mingo was the best place to take her for her first fishing trip just because I wanted her to catch something so she would not get mad and not want to fish anymore, but to my surprise we did pretty good. I was able to catch 8 all nice size, and she was able to catch 2 on her own. I let her reel 4 of mine in. She did catch a couple of trees which caused me too loose a few bobbers but oh well we had fun. All in all for being her first time fishing she did pretty good. [:D]
 



Timachro -> RE: Mingo (4/28/2008 9:27:33 PM)

I just wish that Mingo was a little deeper.  If they could build a small dam at the end of the park(maybe 2 ft. high) it would really make it a better fishery. Maybe even stock some smallmouths in there. or maybe they could dredge it out some.  These are just my thoughts here. What do you all think?



aranbp -> RE: Mingo (4/29/2008 9:48:19 AM)

The dam might help I bit ,but I really do not think dredging would.  Just the money alone would be to much.  Without water flow it would remain the same..  I think stream habitat impronvement would be the better path.  Add devirters and such.



casts_by_fly -> RE: Mingo (4/29/2008 4:53:51 PM)

the mining in the area has lowered the water table and the flow. A dam would not be a good idea as the most you could make in depth would be ~6' as the road is about 8' higher in elevaton than the fields going through the bottoms. The other problem is siltation. The stream is filling in from the agricultural activity in the area. A dam would just fill up also.

Dredging and jack dams would be quick fixes, but wouldn't solve the longer term problems with the stream.

Take it for what it is- a put and take small stream with good access that fishes okay until the summer when the water gets low. It isn't a destination stream. If it is local to you or you are in the area it is worth wetting a line.

Thanks
Rick



kill3ducks1deer -> RE: Mingo (6/21/2008 1:21:35 AM)

i fish mingo alot when they stock it i fish for the meat though. im almost positive around bentlyville trout are stocked because when i went up there i cuaght a 10 in palimino and 4 brooks and my friends cuaght 2 brooks. i think its stocked just not by the fish commision



casts_by_fly -> RE: Mingo (6/21/2008 11:08:35 AM)

killducks,

Mingo doesn't flow to Bentleyville. That is Pigeon Creek you're talking about. Pigeon has been stocked on and off for years by East Monongahela Sportsmen and one other group that is around Bentleyville. When both used to stock it, you could catch trout all the way to Mon City. The last few years that I fished it trout were a little hard to come by as high up as crookham. I rarely fished any higher than that.

Thanks
Rick



HardCore Fisher -> RE: Mingo (6/21/2008 12:44:51 PM)

Pigeon Creek is stocked by PA Lures bait shop in Bentleyville from Ellsworth to the old Campground 70, every year they take donations and stock the creek as well as have a few kids days at Richardson Park in Bentleyville, you can either buy a button or a t-shirt and thats your donation toward the stocking, they also tag fish and its normally a prize from the bait shop.

Ronnie



kill3ducks1deer -> RE: Mingo (6/21/2008 5:36:28 PM)

rick, 
thanks for the correction. i ment to say pigeon ran threw bentlyville but it didnt come out that way. there was a ton of fish when i fished it and it was about 2 or 3 weeks after opening day



SteelPerch -> RE: Mingo (6/22/2008 12:07:36 PM)

quote:

hat one either and as shemanese pointed out, the real answer is probably politics. I was at Mingo this bast Saturday and it was a colossal waste of my time. I was going to hit Peters,


Pretty much every body of water in Washington County is a complete waste of stocked trout in my opinion.  The streams are all small sewage filled trickles and the fish usually cant live in them past June.  The few lakes like Canonsburg Dam are filthy warm water swamps and over-crowded.  Plus I'd bet the Blue Herrons take a majority of the trout that make it past opening weekend anyway.

I used to take part in the stock Pigeon Creek program when it originated back in the 1980's.  Richardson Park was a nice place for kids to fish after we had the boyscouts dam up some holes there.  I think all of the Washington County streams should be club stocked and ot state stocked.  Put those fish in some better streams like up north in Venang/Crawford/Clarion county or over in the Laurel Highlands.

Mingo Creek gets loads of trout because it is a state park and used by a lot of people in the area.  Millers Run gets loads of trout too, mainly because it is right on the Allegheny / Washington county line.   The state is screwed up.  They will stock creeks where the most people live and buy liscences which is why Mingo, Millers Run, and Canonsburg Dam gets waaaaaaay too many stocked trout.    Most of the people I know from Washington County though, prefer to travel to the Yough, Laurel Creek, or up to Oil Creek to fish real trout streams.



casts_by_fly -> RE: Mingo (6/22/2008 5:26:45 PM)

steelperch,

You're right that for the most part the streams are of sub par quality as trout habitat. However, trout socking has to be a combination of two things- quality of water and access to it. You're better off stocking a sewer ditch that everyone can fish than the highest quality limestone stream that is private. At least by stocking the sewer ditch, some people will be able to enjoy the fish that were put in there. Such is the case with a lot of the washington county streams (though not to that extreme). They have good enough water quality to support fish year round aside from temperature. Some years there is enough water throughout the summer to hold over a decent amount of fish. Every year there is enough water (with the help of a few springs and some undercut banks) to hold over a couple fish. The main thing though is that the people who fish these streams don't always have the ability to go to Laurel hill, the Yough, or anywhere else. Sometimes you've only got a few hours to be out. Sometimes you don't have the money for gas. Certainly with Mingo the access for those with disabilities is great. In his later years my grandfather had trouble walking. He used to love to fish up north and went every year for the longest time. After a while he couldn't fish and would either sit by the car or just stay at camp. However, he could always go out by the covered bridge or any one of the other holes through the park and catch a few fish.

If it were up to just club stocking, I'm afraid that a lot of opportunities would be lost. There is no way that clubs would be able to stock all of the streams that the state does. If you didn't stock them you'd loose more than a few licenses from guys who just fish the first day or the first couple weekends.

Thanks
Rick



Brookie1 -> RE: Mingo (6/23/2008 9:40:19 AM)

The commision doesn't stock pigeon creek because they need
2 miles of open water. People don't want strangers walking
through their yard.



kill3ducks1deer -> RE: Mingo (6/24/2008 11:54:36 AM)

 i did walk pigeon. me and my buddy never were yelled at by anyone. as long as you stay in the creek it really doesnt matter



Brookie1 -> RE: Mingo (6/24/2008 12:01:36 PM)

The commision came to a meeting back in the 80's for a club I belonged
to in Van Voorhis. the club stocked the creek and was trying to get
the commision to add it. They were all for it as long as we could come
up with 2 miles of open land.



Timachro -> RE: Mingo (6/24/2008 5:41:27 PM)

I wish that they would dam up the end of the park and turn it into a lake. should be good for some good smallie fishin!!!!!



casts_by_fly -> RE: Mingo (6/24/2008 6:58:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kill3ducks1deer

i did walk pigeon. me and my buddy never were yelled at by anyone. as long as you stay in the creek it really doesnt matter




Just curious, but how do you figure that you're fine if you stay in the creek?

No one yelled at you because (1) there was one of you or you and a buddy. If the stream were stocked there would be a whole lot more. (2) Most of the people along the stream are nice people. They don't mind a guy or two here and there. If you're quiet, you're not bothering their property or leaving trash, and otherwise not causing problems then most people will be fine. When a lot of people start down there then people will get annoyed and things get posted. I remember for a while that it was posted across from Peno's plaza, and then again up past crackerjack/van voorhis there was a lot of posted property. Don't know if there is still some out that way, I imagine there is.

Thanks
Rick



kill3ducks1deer -> RE: Mingo (6/24/2008 8:56:18 PM)

alright i see where you are coming from thats fair. i guess if the fish commision stocked it it would be posted on there website and you would have every person down there trying to catch one fish



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