Mill Creek 4-20-08 (Full Version)

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HardCore Fisher -> Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/20/2008 11:27:47 PM)

Even though it rained pretty heavily overnight, i still made my trip to Ligonier, the Loyalhanna was blown out so we headed for Mill Creek, the further upstream we went, the better the water was getting as far as conditions and color, from about 11:30 till dark we landed around 30 trout between 2 of us and had the whole creek to ourselves all day workin over about 1 1/2 miles of water an several other honey holes i know of, anything you casted could catch fish today, fish are scattered very well throughout the creek and almost every hole we came upon had fish in it, to my understanding that creek is stocked with brown fingerlings and we caught a decent amount of nice browns today there as well as what appeared to be a few native rainbows aside from the stockies, if the Loyalhanna is slow, head to Mill Creek, i also snapped a few pics where i was sure i wouldn't drop my camera in the water lol =

[img]http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc142/someguy1391/millcreek3.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc142/someguy1391/millcreek5.jpg[/img]
my buddy
[img]http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc142/someguy1391/millcreek4.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc142/someguy1391/millcreek2.jpg[/img]
my buddy again
[img]http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc142/someguy1391/millcreek1.jpg[/img]

Ronnie





mariosteam0506 -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 9:17:24 AM)

dude that was a great day!! i wish everyday was that good!!




HardCore Fisher -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 9:21:57 AM)

What can i say, i know all the hot spots around Ligonier.




griffon -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 10:20:09 AM)

Did you enjoy having the creek to yourself?  I hope so, because you likely will not the next time you fish it...  Nice report and way to spot burn. It's great that you had a good day, and you friend did not find it necessary to post locations.  He did it right and obviously enjoyed the trip.  Mill is a relatively small stream and creeks like this really don't need your internet publicity. 




mariosteam0506 -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 10:43:30 AM)

okay thanks, and leave your opinions at the door!![:@]




griffon -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 10:52:38 AM)

Look at it this way,  4 posts on this subject and 162 views so far.  That is not an opinion it is a fact.  Irresponsible posts do more harm than good everytime.  If you wish to share spots, use the pm function.  The entire length of that creek is private property and most of the landowners are extremely close to posting it as is (I know many of the landowners and know their feelings- this is fact, not opinion).  Reading hardcore's reports, he really seems to have a "look at me, I'm great" complex (that is an opinion). 




Lovgren69 -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 11:32:53 AM)

What's the harm in wanting to show off a successful day of fishing?  I don't think the majority of people hesitate to post some photos of themselves fishing, in turn not worrying about if their pictures or information might disclose a "secret" location.  The internet is a powerful tool which enables sportsman today the access to loads of information that wasn't previously available.  It is always the individuals choice as to what he/she cares to do with his/her information or photos.  After all, this is a public forum...
Attracting more people to a disclosed location should not in turn cause landowners any significant problems.  This falls under one great assumption, that all the anglers who fish here are repsonsible, respectful, and obey the respective laws.  But I see no great harm in one wanting to share his/her succcess! 




Hot Shot -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 1:20:57 PM)

I must agree with lovgren, and the pics are great.... There is no harm in attracting people to a new area as long as they respect the land... The problems always arise when you get people who just don't care about anything but themselves and destroy the area... No matter what you do, there is always going to be someone like that, its just a fact of life... I enjoy looking at all the pics people post on here and it would be nice if there were a few more... Anyways, nice pics and good report guys...




centerpin_drift -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 1:34:39 PM)

My opinion is that the good old inter net ruined fishing altogether anyways. I remember in Erie place you maybe see 3-6 guys now has 300 guys wtf. What did all the so called fisherman do before the inter net came available, It's called get out and fish,walk,explore do your own home work. You can thank all the fishing web sites for all the extra b.s that comes with fishing now. Ronnie keep posting it's cool gives me more places to fish and explore. Thanks, man.


                                                        Centerpin_drift!~




Got My Pole Wet -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 1:36:59 PM)

Mill creek is an approved trout water and stocked by the state public knowledge and if you are on this forum surely you know where that info is.

What is up with all this complaing lately??????

Nice Pics and carry out what you carry in and the land owners won't have a problem.




fishrmn -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 1:49:30 PM)

I cringed when I saw this post.  I once commented on a thread about Mill Creek three years ago I believe, and I got a new one ripped about it...  Now I completely understand why...  Griffon is completely correct about the landowners, esp on that particular stretch in the pictures.  It's nice to share pictures (everyone loves seeing the pics), but it would be a GREAT idea to leave out stream names.  ESP on a stream that small, and with the cirumstances that involve it.

-Tim




Ax -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 2:02:03 PM)

Griffon,

Why do you always feel the need to bust guys chops for posting info on or about fishing on a fishing site?  Hey if he wants to share one of his spots then so be it.  Guess what unless the land is posted your gonna be fishing around people most of the time in PA. Even before this co called bad thing the internet.  Which must not be so bad as you are always on it.  Our state stocks trout for one reason and guess what it is for people to fish for them.  Just like Hardcore Fisher was doing.

I can understand the landowner concerns, but guess what if the land owners post this land then the state will not stock it.  Then guess what no one will fish it (unless there is some natural reproduction).

This isnt a direct attack at you but come on man if a guy wants to post spots he fishes who cares.  I am sure he is aware that the fishing pressure may rise.




fishrmn -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 2:11:18 PM)

Ax,

I don't think anyone has a problem with posting about a days fishing... And I'm pretty sure EVERYone enjoys seeing the pictures.  That is not the issue... 

It is not neccesary to post stream names/spots, this is esp true on small streams that can't handle the pressure.  This is refered to as "spot burning".  Infact alot of fishing forums STRICTLY inforce a policy AGAINST spot burning.

There are already enough slobs that fish this section as it is, we don't need anymore.  I picked up a good deal of fishing related garbage there on sunday.  I guess it was to much to carry out what they brought in. 

I really don't see what the big deal is...  Just leave out the stream name and no harm is done.  Use the PM if you want to tell someone about a stream.

-Tim




griffon -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 2:27:01 PM)

Ax,  I don't spot burn and don't approve of it being done, especially on smaller waters.  Most websites do not allow this kind of behavior and can actually ban members that choose to partake in such activities.  I do share spots, but that is done through pms, not published on web boards.  As for techniques and information, I am always willing to share, as almost a thousand posts and many years would show.

To this particular stream, much of the land is posted currently along the stream.  The landowners have been very tolerant of fishermen (except the top most portion).  However, every landowner is at their wits end with anglers that litter, crowd relatives (particularly young kids) out of fishing holes, and generally show a total lack of respect for the owners or their properties.  Take a look at the number of hits on this thread and there are only a few replies.  Those that are replying are likely the responsible ones, but they are also fueling the flames.  It would be a shame if this creek were lost because of an irresponsible post. 

I have always stood strong on this and will continue to fight this battle.  Some agree with me as they can see the effects of irresponsible posts.  Others do not agree with me and assume that anything they post is fine and will not harm anyone or anything. 

By the way, my family's property and our neigbor's on a "nonstocked" trout stream in northern PA is posted from mouth to source because of this site.  That stream (will remain unnamed) used to be open everyone.  A couple of irresponsible posts, increased traffic, and bad manners resulted in a total shutdown of the stream.  We still let those who would ask go fish.  However, the more I and other landowners read this board, the more we are leaning toward shutting it down completely, except to family members and friends. 




fubu2005 -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 3:16:01 PM)

Wow, it sure turned out to be a nasty forum here but I think it is mostly due to fisherman feeling like their special place has been destroyed because a few beautiful pictures!! Lets seriously think about how damaging those pictures really were...So, we have the name of the creek...the distance he traveled while fishing the creek...and one damn snap shot of the bridge that might give away one hole, not ten. Lets see how many people that read this thread know where that bridge is...I didn't get any information telling me to drive up this road and make left here or right there and i'll find this hole....on the other hand, those were some nice trout but hell they were no 20 inchers...so, would it be wise to think a crap load of people are going to be heading to this "small" creek to catch a trout that we saw in those pictures? I personally think they were beautiful pictures and show a fisherman doing what he is born to do and that is catch something of any size and be proud of it. Sometimes we find ourselves treating these fishing holes like our home but they won't be there forever and they surely won reward us everytime...so why not learn to see what else is out there and explore nature for what it is meant to be??




DanesDad -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 3:22:40 PM)

I dont see the harm, as long as people are respectful of the landowners wishes.  Unlike Griffon, most of us dont have our own personal stream.  So, we expect to fish with other anglers around.  At least I do.  It's the cost of doing business on PA streams.  I do agree wholeheartedly that anglers should not leave anything behind except footprints, and abide by the landowners wishes.




smallhook -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 3:29:30 PM)

It never ceases to amaze me how the self-proclaimed experts rip people new asses for sharing posts and pics with us guys.  Nice pix hardcore and it looks like you had a good day fishing.  I don't think however that I'll spend untold amounts in gas to fish in that beautiful stream.  Of the couple of hundred that read this post maybe one or two will drive there to fish.  PA has too much trout water for guys to drive long distance to fish.  We have more trout streams than any other state in the union.  Now Erie on the other hand is a little different.  There is only so much Stealhead water but if you don't mind walking a little you can fish for Steelhead by yourself as well.




brown trout -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 4:46:09 PM)

First of all, I see nothing wrong with a guy posting pics of a fish, and saying they had a good day -  that is fine. BUT, I believe that posting a small stream name is completley irresponsible. Just say what you caught and be done, without listing the stream. I am with griffon that spotburning is untolerable, and stupid. Most fisherman that are successful put in effort and many failed trips to find the very good places, and there is no reason to alert the whole internet crowd to a productive small stream locale.

Now I do know that this is a stocked stream, and many know about it, but don't underestimate how many people don't. Trust me, I fish the SW and SC PA regions constantly, and there is many UNBELIEVABLE fisheries here that are virtually unknown. But, if they were, they would no doubt be not what they are now. I fish some streams in this area, with trout in sizes that most wouldn't even believe, where others say there isn't even fish.

Also, it is no bs that landowners on most streams are getting continually fed up. I know many landowners personally that live on one of SC PA's finest streams, and the majority of them are very close to posting, or have already done so in the last year or two. And truthfully, I think at some point in the future, high quality public water is going to be tough to come by.

The bottomline is this - spotburning will ruin small streams, period. I would love to post pics of some 28" and 29" browns and bows caught out of an unstocked, ugly looking SW PA stream, but I will never do so because I won't disrespect the spot, or the others who may fish it that put in the work to find out there is fish actually fish in there, and I can't see why anyone else would want to post the name of their spot. Just my .02.




CATMAN610 -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 7:05:47 PM)

I can't believe all the fuss about someone showing pics of a stream that will be totally cleaned out in a week or two after they stock it anyway. If the land gets posted it will have nothing to do with the amount of people fishing it, they will post it because some dumbo will leave trash in someones yard or be seen taking a leak in someones bushes. They stocked that creek last year in may the water was so low in waterford and behind the Ford garage and the whole way along that soccer field that they dumped buckets of rainbows in, some where laying on the bottom dead before they even saw a hook. Maybe the sooner they clean the stockies out of there the better anyhow.




shemanese -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 7:55:39 PM)

got to agree with the catman on this one

There's no secret about Mill Creek.




coolerfull1 -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 8:05:34 PM)

I liked the pics, keep on posting.  These clowns are out of their minds for ripping you.




Kokanee Killer -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 8:20:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fishrmn

Ax,

I don't think anyone has a problem with posting about a days fishing... And I'm pretty sure EVERYone enjoys seeing the pictures.  That is not the issue... 

It is not neccesary to post stream names/spots, this is esp true on small streams that can't handle the pressure.  This is refered to as "spot burning".  Infact alot of fishing forums STRICTLY inforce a policy AGAINST spot burning.

There are already enough slobs that fish this section as it is, we don't need anymore.  I picked up a good deal of fishing related garbage there on sunday.  I guess it was to much to carry out what they brought in. 

I really don't see what the big deal is...  Just leave out the stream name and no harm is done.  Use the PM if you want to tell someone about a stream.

-Tim
well said correct USE THE PM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




smallhook -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 8:51:52 PM)

Well, this is an old argument around here.  There are several spots on Laurel and Indian Creeks that I would never post in these forums.  I would be happy to share them with people via PM or possibly fish the spots with them.  There are other spots I wouldn't share with anyone. Many of us "regulars" around here have spots that we go to every year simply to get away from everyone.  Posting stream names especially stocked streams probably doesn't really draw fishermen to the spots as much as some of you guys think.  I try to fish everyday and I spend at least 20 days of the month on the Yough.  The Yough can support a helluva lot more fishermen than certain stretchs of Jacob or Sewickley creeks.  Should we ban mentioning certain spots on the Yough as well?  I dunno.  I enjoyed reading Hardcores post and always like to see guys enjoying fishing but to accuse Ron of spotburning just seems silly to me.  He was feeling all good about his post and certain people smacked him over the head, geez.




HardCore Fisher -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 9:08:36 PM)

I really didn't expect to get bashed an bitched at for tellin people that hey they theirs fish in this creek give it try if this creek is slow an i only mentioned the creek name, not exactly where i was at, all i basically gave was a report of my day an shared a few pictures, now i have people bitching at me about this an that, next time i won't post anything, i try helpin some people out an get trash thrown back in my face.




griffon -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/22/2008 9:51:33 PM)

Ronnie,  for the record I never bashed your pictures, but I did come across too harsh and I apologize.  On the contrary, they are very nice.  I do believe that you carry it overboard when you start naming small stream names (which you do often).  Naming the Loyalhanna is one thing, naming Mill and then combining it with the pictures and a report of "we caught X number of fish and they hit everything" is yet another entirely.  I can absolutely guarantee that if I took coolerful's post from the other thread and showed it to the landowners in that area, they would seriously concerned.  I can guarantee for a fact that two of them just downstream from your photos would shut the stream off completely (I do wish the moderators would delete that post).  You are young and eventually you will understand.  The point is, not everyone who reads these boards treats the resources as you do or as you feel they should be treated.  I have picked up trash more than once along the very stretch your pictures come from (fyi... the structure under the bridge usually has some decent tackle clinging to it if you want a few extra lures)Trust me, I fish around the country and may not have seen it all, but I am trying and I think I am getting close.   I have gone back through most of your history and I believe that I see a lot of myself in you when I was younger.  In the last 10 years however, I have changed and my entire concern is about protecting natural resources for everyone (particularly my children and the generations to follow).  My entire life (aside from my family and religious affiliation) revolves around keeping private lands open to the public (this is probably the biggest reason that Terry Yokum and I were such close friends). 

A short detail about myself if you will... I grew up in upstate NY in farm country (every road was dirt).  I was fortunate enough to live within 200 yards of one of the greatest trout streams that noone has ever heard of and less than three miles from the Susquehanna river.  Our wild game populations were fantastic (I have actually shot close to 500 grouse- not one ground swat ever) as my family raised bird dogs.  Through all of this, I became a guide for a turkey hunting outfit.  I had literally 100's of thousands of acres to roam on and all it ever took was some courtesy and a handshake.  When I go back today, things are different.  A new breed has taken over the properties and they have absolute disdain for sportsmen.  Unfortunately, most of the hatred has been a result of the actions of our fellow ''sportsmen" when they trespass, cut fences, shoot domestics, leave litter (beer cans particularly), poach, yell at landowners as well as their families, and numerous other offensive behaviors.  Some of the guilty individuals are people that I grew up around and I have totally separated myself from, as I see what they have done to all of us.  Now, I would be pushing it if I said that I have 10,000 acres of private land to fish and hunt in the entire state (over a 90% reduction).  I know that seems like a lot, but it isn't when you are used to having unlimited area and no competition to speak of.  The point is, as sportsmen we failed to keep landowner relations and now everyone in that area is worse off for it.   

There is no doubt that I come across as a hard individual.  However, if you read my posts the only time that my angry passionate side ever comes through is when I feel that an individual or organization is behaving in a manner that is not necessarily good for all sportsmen(Don't confuse me with  the "holier than thou" attitude as that could not be further from the truth).  The difference is, in the field and in my personal life, I lead by example not by hypocritical statements and I truly believe in the cause I am fighting for.  Tight Lines, The Griffon.   




CATMAN610 -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/23/2008 7:35:51 AM)

You did just fine, I must drive past that whole creek at least a few times every season,,and now that I saw those pics and the spots, I'm still gonna drive by. For no other reason except I had no intentions on fishing it before I saw your post and have none since,,,,but thanks for sharing its always kool to see local fish being caught.




DanesDad -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/23/2008 8:26:52 AM)

I drove up that way last week looking for a place to fish.  I was mainly checking out loyalhanna, but I drove by there (Mill creek, not the exact spot you fished) and I wondered if it was any good fishing.  Now I know.  Will I ever fish there?  Based on my own observations and your report?  Maybe.  If I do, you can bet that you'll never know I was there unless you actually see me fishing because I'll leave nothing and I'll keep no fish, preferring instead to release them, so someone else can catch them.  There is NO place I fish that I wouldn't post on here, as long as it is on public land, or the landowners allow access.  Mill is a stocked creek.  Anyone is entitled to fish there as long as they abide by the laws and respect the wishes of the landowner.  Congratulations on your good outing and in the unlikely possibility I ever try that creek, maybe I'll see you there.




razmatazz05 -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/23/2008 8:57:29 AM)

great photos hardcore.  you did nothing wrong.  it's a state stocked stream, anyone that visits the state website will know about it.  anyone that has a brain will know that when a big stream like loyalhanna is chocolate milk that the smaller tribs will be better.  again you did nothing wrong, sweet pics, keep posting.  dont let anyone on this board influence what you do.  the same people that can type all the nasty stuff on the computer would never say the same thing to you in person. 

tight lines!




Chris Johnson -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/23/2008 1:21:11 PM)

I grew up in Erie Co. close to Walnut Creek in the 60's and 70's, and I do not remember the Steelhead Run being such a big deal.  I remember spending all day on Walnut and and only seeing a few people.  I have not been back for about 5 years, but I imagine it is a zoo. 

No judgment here, ... just an observation. 

Great Pics.




Livinfishin -> RE: Mill Creek 4-20-08 (4/23/2008 10:42:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: griffon

Look at it this way,  4 posts on this subject and 162 views so far.  That is not an opinion it is a fact.  Irresponsible posts do more harm than good everytime.  If you wish to share spots, use the pm function.  The entire length of that creek is private property and most of the landowners are extremely close to posting it as is (I know many of the landowners and know their feelings- this is fact, not opinion).  Reading hardcore's reports, he really seems to have a "look at me, I'm great" complex (that is an opinion). 


I didn't see where he shared any specific "spots" in his post.  He only said "Mill Creek" and that he did well upstream. Several miles of that stream are stocked. Nothing specific at all. In regards to mill creek being "over advertised".  It's on the PFBC stocking list isn't it?  So it is being advertised irregardless of this gentleman's post.  I really didn't see anything wrong here with what he posted.




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