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Rumor ? - 3/29/2008 8:32:54 AM   
TBS


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From: Prospect,PA
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THIS IS JUST A RUMOR ...Repeat JUST A RUMOR. A guy who works for PennDOT ( right there something is fishy) came in Micheals bar yesterday and was saying that the state is considering a daily useage fee for the state parks & the boat ramps like the Corp of Eng. do. The money will be used for up keep on the parks & to help the Fish Comm. A season long pass may also be purchased for up to 3 parks. Anyone else hear this??? If this is true ( & we all know how much Taxsylvania loves their fees & tax $$$ ) What 3 parks would you pick ? I'd have to go with Arthur & P.I. as definates with either Wilhelm or Pymie as my 3rd pick. Repeat this is JUST A RUMOR from a beloved state employee !!!
Tom

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/29/2008 12:03:34 PM   
jerminator7777


Posts: 396
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
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Micheals on the South Side?? Mmmmmmmm......

(in reply to TBS)
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RE: Rumor ? - 3/29/2008 12:14:17 PM   
trigger

 

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I was at a meeting last month with the fish commission and they are going to start charging kids under 16  $5.00  license fee. 

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/29/2008 12:56:56 PM   
kayak99

 

Posts: 447
Joined: 10/7/2000
Status: online
Wow, if I posted every rumor I have heard in bars you'd need a whole new forum!  

(in reply to trigger)
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RE: Rumor ? - 3/29/2008 3:00:34 PM   
Timachro


Posts: 417
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Pitsburgh
Status: online
Don't believe everything you hear from drunks in bars. Only believe them if you're drunk also...LMAO

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/29/2008 6:21:50 PM   
TBS


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From: Prospect,PA
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No...Micheals on 422 by Lake Arthur... & this fellow just walked in after his shift. Believe me, Drunkenese rumors would be a whole different post. LOL.

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/29/2008 6:25:29 PM   
*commander*


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maybe PennDot got the idea from the "Onorato Tax"(drink tax). doesnt the drink tax money pay for PatTransit? maybe the state is going to use some of the supposed launch money to pay the PennDot workers. with the price of fuel i'm sure its going to take a lot more $$$ to keep the AC running all day in those trucks to keep the workers cool this summer.

"Rumor" has it that the state will be purchasing shovels that hold THEMSELVES up.

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Post #: 7
RE: Rumor ? - 3/29/2008 7:09:30 PM   
outdrwriter

 

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Whether or not it is true at this time, it is only a matter of time until Pa. follows suit with numerous other states throughout the country and institutes user fees. I have no problem with them as long as ALL the revenue generated goes back to improving the parks and facilities.

< Message edited by outdrwriter -- 3/29/2008 7:10:00 PM >

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Post #: 8
RE: Rumor ? - 3/29/2008 7:28:39 PM   
*commander*


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i cringe at the thought of giving the state more $$$, especially to launch a boat. where does the money go for boat registration? paying for something that has been there for years and receives very little maintenance(PA boat launches) is imo ridiculous. i can see it now; EZPass/debit/credit card at the launch ramp. the gate doesnt go up until your card goes through. IF/When it does go into effect, imo it should be in the way of a stamp or some way that the $$$ is PROPERLY tracked so the $$$ goes where it's supposed to. charging people each time they launch will generate a huge FORTUNE.

< Message edited by *commander* -- 3/29/2008 7:30:52 PM >

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/29/2008 9:21:40 PM   
pghmarty


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Willow Bay at Kinzua charges $8 or $45 for the season

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/29/2008 9:45:29 PM   
*commander*


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imo its criminal. its not the $$$, its the point of paying for something thats already there. with the exception of the docks being put in and taken out, how often does it get maintained and how often does the parking lot get redone. how much are portajons? does the $$$ actually go towards what its supposed to?

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/29/2008 9:50:34 PM   
FlashDance

 

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Try putting in Maryland at Deep Creek. Ouch. They don't use lube.

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/29/2008 9:51:50 PM   
Little35


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Remember, that PA still has a tax on liquor to help for recovery for the first Johnstown Flood.

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/29/2008 9:55:47 PM   
pghmarty


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Boat cops at Deep Creek seem to be a little too enthusiastic about giving out tickets and general harassment.

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/29/2008 10:04:16 PM   
*commander*


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i know its a losing situation but i hate paying for horse#### fees. dont know if you fellas are familiar with leetsdale boat ramp on the ohio river. it was/is quite possibly one of the worst launch facilities youll find. i have not been there since they started a launch fee. few years ago they started a $10 daily launch fee or $50 year pass. the docks dont get put in until just before memorial day weekend and are removed shortly after labor day weekend. long story short, the launch is so poor that they dont charge anymore(what i was told). it costs me a bunch more time and $$$ running up from monaca or rochester or locking through from emsworth. however, once you start paying at one place youre going to pay everywhere.

< Message edited by *commander* -- 3/29/2008 10:25:15 PM >

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/30/2008 4:21:27 PM   
Lundrunner

 

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I have heard about the $5 kids license too.  I'm totally against under 16 licencing.  Raise adult licenses if necessary.  We need as many kids fishing as we can, and some cann't get money from parents.

They should be embarrassed to mention this.....

I guess they have put greed ahead of what is right.

< Message edited by Lundrunner -- 3/30/2008 4:22:16 PM >

(in reply to trigger)
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RE: Rumor ? - 3/30/2008 5:00:08 PM   
Tacklebuster


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I haven't talked to the WCO for westmoreland county about the boat launch fees, but from what he said the license for the kids may be coming soon

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/30/2008 5:54:06 PM   
tom vito

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lundrunner

I have heard about the $5 kids license too.  I'm totally against under 16 licencing.  Raise adult licenses if necessary.  We need as many kids fishing as we can, and some cann't get money from parents.

They should be embarrassed to mention this.....

I guess they have put greed ahead of what is right.


I agree that we need kids fishing, but I dont see it as being much different that kids paying to hunt. And from what I read it would be the same as hunting, that they only need the licenses from 12-16, then at 16 they would get an adult licenses. But not sure where I had read it now. It was on a web page somewhere....

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/31/2008 10:49:57 AM   
fruntz

 

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I am, and have been, in favor of a junior license.  Please go to following and review before making a rash statement / judgement and giving out incorrect / inaccurate information.  The hope is that the junior license will increase young peoples' interest in fishing.  I hope that everyone got to read sunday 3/30/08 PG article concerning the kids in North Allegheny School district raising fish as a classroom project.  Call up a parish / faith community in the inner city and offer to take a few kids fishing on opening day or any other day.  this will help increase awareness and interest also.

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/promo/initiatives/jrlicense/00junior.htm

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/31/2008 11:20:32 AM   
mc

 

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More fees and regulations? That is the reason why I don't buy a hunting license anymore! It seems you need a lawyer to hunt PA anymore. When fishing gets that way I won't buy a PA license to do that either. Is it any wonder why the ranks of sportsman are shrinking?

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/31/2008 11:48:33 AM   
Blaze

 

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What is the motivation of a family of 4 with 2 children in the age range of 12-15 who aren't avid anglers to decide to go fishing for the day at the cost of $22.70 each and two $5.00 child licenses totaling around $55 bucks?  This sounds like it's defeating the point of getting kids fishing who wouldn't normally go, right? 

Let's face it for those of us who fish consistently, we'll pay whatever to take advantage of the opportunities PA angling offers.  For the kids ages 12-15 who don't have a fanatic relative to take them, this fee only prohibits them from fishing especially when there are so many other options of recreation (Xbox, PS3, Sports, Drugs,).  My point is unless we the sportsmen take the time to introduce fishing not only to our own kids but other youngsters we are associated with, the number of young anglers will continue to decline due to the increase in other options of recreation.  A fee of $5 is only going to prohibit the kids on the fence with going fishing with a friend or relative and/or gaming on the XBOX in the basement with Sergi from Russia.

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/31/2008 2:01:02 PM   
fruntz

 

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1.  Did you go to the web site and see the intended purpose and what they are trying to do?
In case you did not, following is the gist of the program.

The potential annual revenue from a junior license would be $2.1 million per year. Over the past few years, an average of $480,000 annually was spent by the Fish and Boat Commission on programs targeting youth. All additional dollars generated by the junior license will be dedicated to programs for youth.
If House Bill 2900 becomes law, Pennsylvania would join 13 states that require some form of license or permit for their youth anglers. The average cost of a youth fishing license nationwide is $12.16.
At $5, a youth fishing license would cost less than a new music CD ($13); video or computer game ($39); movie ticket ($6.50); or admission to an amusement park (as much as $44).
Smith said the Fish and Boat Commission is committed to ensuring that cost won’t be a barrier for youngsters who cannot afford a license.
"The commission will work with clubs and organizations to sponsor the purchase of licenses for youngsters who can’t afford them,” Smith said.

2.  To answear the first part, the motivation for the family is to spend a  day as a family out of the house. There are two fish-for-free days in PA every year to try to get people interested.  The commission attempts to publicize these as much as possible.   If they want to fish for one day on a different day, they have the ability to purchase a one day license for 11.70 each (they cannot show up for trout opening day though).  Plus they also have the option of going to a pay lake for the day.  Case in point is that my father was not very much interested in fishing when I was a kid so our one or two annual fishing days were spent at Lake Joann. I did not get interested until a few years ago ( and I'm in my 60's).  I would also venture to say that there are a number of people who take a chance and go out for one, or more than one, day without a license.  I would also venture to say that many of these same people, unless fiscal circumstances prohibit them, take advantage of society in many other ways and probably will never become good proponents of the sport.

As to your second paragraph.
What would you calculate is the percentage of people that are NOT introduced to the sport via an older relative, a relative of a friend, or a friendly neighbor?  In order to support your opinion in line 2, have you taken a survey to know how many kids would not buy the license?  I realize that there are plenty of recreational options for kids.  Something or someone got them interested in those areas.  The question is "how do we get the kids interested in fishing?" as one of those options. 

As opposed to your straight forward negative opinion, I really do not believe that the comm is out to kill the sport and the young peoples interests by pursuing this.  I am a proponent of this and also a $2 pin for younger kids.  This may generate the feeling " I have a license just like dad's / mom's!" and be a keepsake for years to come and rekindle that feeling somewhere down the road.  To give you an example, each week when I take the collection at my church, I make it a point of going into the kids section.  With a smile on my face, I thank each one of the little kids that gives me an envelope with a big "thanks pal or sweatheart, I really appreciate your offering". I see their smiles and pride when I do this and I think this would work here also.  Ask yourself, when was the last time the usher thanked you for your offering at church?      

I would be more than happy to throw in $10 for two licenses for two kids that could not afford them!
Thanks for reading this.

(in reply to Blaze)
Post #: 22
RE: Rumor ? - 3/31/2008 3:45:49 PM   
pgh_flytier

 

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Blaze, I think you really brought up the best point for not doing the youth license. When my kids were young we would have had to come up with the cost of the license times three, at the time that would have been prohibitively expensive. 

For heavens sake, just let kids be kids!

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/31/2008 5:54:52 PM   
chauncy

 

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If they do implement the $5 charge for permits, i'd be glad to take a few kids fishing and still pay for their permits. I quit spending money on beer so i'll use the six pack money to help the kids for a whole year of fishing. What six pack will last that long? They can just wipe the boat down when we get done fishing.

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/31/2008 5:58:47 PM   
Little35


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Good idea Chaunc. If they do make it law, that would be part of the trip.

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/31/2008 7:45:49 PM   
tom vito

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blaze

What is the motivation of a family of 4 with 2 children in the age range of 12-15 who aren't avid anglers to decide to go fishing for the day at the cost of $22.70 each and two $5.00 child licenses totaling around $55 bucks?  This sounds like it's defeating the point of getting kids fishing who wouldn't normally go, right? 



For this example to work, your assuming that they parents are just spending there $45.40 to go one day. I dont see that happening. Just as I dont see $10.00 being the difference between the family goes fishing today, and no we are not going fishing today. If it is truely about the cost, what about the cost of the gear for four people?

And if this is truely a "family" day, mom and dad can save their $45.40, and be happy to spend $10.00 and spend the day with their childern. Or in your examples, maybe they are happier sitting at home doing nothing while the kids play video games. But then, hey that cost how much money???

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/31/2008 7:55:01 PM   
spoonchucker


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"this fee only prohibits them from fishing especially when there are so many other options of recreation (Xbox, PS3, Sports, Drugs,)."

So mom, and dad can afford a $300 Xbox, and $35- $50 games FOR said system. But they can't swing $5 for a license?

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RE: Rumor ? - 3/31/2008 10:33:39 PM   
Cold


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I've got to agree with the majority of folks here that charging kids to fish is a bad idea.  first of all, for a kid with non-fishing parents, it's hard enough to get to the lake or stream (as kids 12-15 arent driving yet), let alone get a decent set of gear.  If they just have one free day, even WITH the equipment, now they have to make a side trip to get a license.  Even when this is accomplished, I know even myself at that age that I'd get bored with it when I was always out by myself.  A big part of the fun of it is spending time with friends.  While 5 bucks might not seem like alot, for a kid, it might mean the difference between spending the day fishing and spending it playing video games.  Even now, in my twenties, its hard to find friends who want to go out for a day of fishing.  Only two of my friends have a license, and when you talk about going, alot of other guys want to go, but when they hear how much it'll cost them, they're not interested.  I'd hate to see that happen with kids.

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Post #: 28
RE: Rumor ? - 3/31/2008 10:59:08 PM   
Blaze

 

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I appreciate your opinions. If the point is to generate more youth anglers with a $5 license then the kids should receive immediate incentives. Examples of this would be a subscription to PA Angler, a list of classes to attend for free, discounts on equipment and others. These are direct and immediate benefits to purchasing the license that are fairly distributed to all youth license holders. I can back something like this but not a black box of $2.1 million. Who knows where that all goes?

I didn't intend to begin a debate but merely express my opinion of the proposed license fee. I wholly support the pa fish and game commission but taking money from kids who can't work yet so they can fish just doesn't sit right with me. Especially with all of the other options they have today.
Thanks!

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RE: Rumor ? - 4/1/2008 9:47:13 AM   
richardw

 

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I remember a rather long but informative discussion about this last year but couldn't find it.  People posted many good points to both sides but the one thing that sticks out in my mind is someone posted the license sales by year from the PFBC website.  It showed how many licenses were sold and what years the license increases took effect.  The number of licenses sold after each increase was drastic, like 50-60,000 less.

I couldn't find the old post but I did find the page where the #'s were being quoted.  Here is a link to the PFBC site with the information.   http://www.fish.state.pa.us/licsal2.htm  I've got to admit that those #'s are alarming.  No matter what the reasons for not spending the money it seems like people just can't or won't justify it.

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