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RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/16/2008 7:58:32 AM   
Cold


Posts: 1013
Joined: 3/27/2008
From: Latrobe, PA
Status: online 		I'm totally in favor of Hochuli not being permitted to ref in the post-season.  That's bad enough in the regular season...could you imagine a call like that ending your favorite team's season...or losing them the Super Bowl?

Also, it can be made a reviewable call much like they made "down-by-contact" plays reviewable; in this case, since they wouldnt have an accurate fumble return distance, they'd take posession at the spot of the fumble.  It would suck getting gypped out of a nice return, but it sucks even more not getting the ball.

How about Mike Shanahan's comments after the game, though?  What an ass.

(in reply to gobyking)
Post #: 241
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/16/2008 9:35:08 AM   
SmallieKiller


Posts: 3885
Joined: 5/24/2002
Status: offline 		Eh, the guy is human and made a mistake.  I respect him for sticking to his guns and maning up and admiting he made a mistake and then basing his ruling straight from the rule book.  Better then doing or saying nothing and sending that "My Bad" letter this week.

_____________________________

Lupul wears eyeliner? F'n emo kids suck.

(in reply to Cold)
Post #: 242
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/16/2008 9:46:44 AM   
Rapscallion

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 5/24/2008
Status: offline 		The call could not be overturned/ball awarded to the Chargers according to the rules. When a quarterback fumbles or doesn't fumble and the whistle is blown, the resulting ruling as to the fumble/incomplete pass/non fumble is irrelavent. The ball was dead the minute the whistle blew and it hit the ground.
As long as the whistle blew, the play is dead where the ball hits the ground. The call of a incomplete pass can be overturned to a fumble as it was but the ball is immediately dead at the point it hits the ground as long as the whistle is blown.

This is different when a back or receiver has a questionable fumble. If the whistle is blown in one of those cases but the call is subsequently overturned by replay, a change of possesion can take place. Again, this is only true if the player involved is NOT the quarterback.    

(in reply to SmallieKiller)
Post #: 243
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/16/2008 10:23:40 AM   
Cold


Posts: 1013
Joined: 3/27/2008
From: Latrobe, PA
Status: online 		I understand that he's human, and we all make mistakes, but when your mistake involves a multi-million dollar per year football team, there are ramifications.  If you have a job where your decisions can cost even thousands of dollars, just try making a few mistakes and see how long that lasts.  Not saying the guy is the devil or anything, just that there might be better choices for post-season officiating.  I too respect his maturity in owning up to it.

Rap, I understand the rules, and I think it is just that rule that needs adjustment.  Lets suppose that the same play became a halfback pass.  Cutler pitches it over to Young, who, while cocking back to throw, loses the ball.  Then what?  In that case, as I see it, the Chargers could, in theory, get posession if the challenge goes their way.  A few years back they made it so that a down by contact could be reversed and posession changed, I think its only fair that the same be true of the fumble/incomplete situation.  I think that if the review shows that there was no forward arm motion, they should be able to get the call completely right instead of partially.  Unfortunately, this means that players will have to play through the whistle.  But most do anyway.

(in reply to Rapscallion)
Post #: 244
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/16/2008 11:29:45 AM   
Rapscallion

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 5/24/2008
Status: offline 		In your scenario, the play as originally called would have been overturned and ruled a fumble. Possession would then be given to the Chargers because they recovered and the fumbling player was NOT a quarterback. That is the key to the end result.
I'm not saying I agree with the rule as it is written nor do I agree with the call that was made. What I'm saying is that according to the current rule, Hoculi had no choice but to award the ball to the Broncos after he blew the whistle. He blew his whistle and his original call that the loose ball was an incomplete pass but he had to give the ball to the Broncos based on what he had already done.
I'm quite sure the rule as it is currently written will be changed next year to avoid such a huge game changing blemish again.

(in reply to Cold)
Post #: 245
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/16/2008 11:40:07 AM   
Cold


Posts: 1013
Joined: 3/27/2008
From: Latrobe, PA
Status: online 		...yeah.  That's what I was saying.  

He made a bad call in blowing the whistle and calling it incomplete.  But after he screwed it up, they corrected it as well as they could, given the current rules.  Unfortunately, the rules are kinda wacky and need some reworking before next year.

(in reply to Rapscallion)
Post #: 246
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/17/2008 4:20:42 PM   
D-nymph

 

Posts: 2337
Joined: 9/19/2001
Status: offline 		So, what happend to the Browns?

Oh, yea.  Ten in a row for Pittsburgh.  It's not even fair, anymore, really.


(in reply to gobyking)
Post #: 247
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/17/2008 8:59:32 PM   
Cold


Posts: 1013
Joined: 3/27/2008
From: Latrobe, PA
Status: online 		Heard a joke the other day...


Q: How do you keep a browns fan from jerking off?

A: Paint it black & gold and he'll never beat it again!

(in reply to D-nymph)
Post #: 248
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/20/2008 8:04:17 AM   
beerman


Posts: 3699
Joined: 1/14/2002
From: Key West, Florida
Status: online 		Obviously the Browns need a win to keep pace with the Steelers.  Maybe their defense is starting to get it together, only giving up 10 points to the Steelers, or was it the rain and wind that kept Pittsburgh from scoring?  Last season Cleveland was lucky to have almost no significant injuries.  Already this season they have had there share, but a good team has to have quality replacements.  I predict the Browns will beat Baltimore and rookie QB Flacco, 20-17.

The NFC East is getting to much credit.  Because of this I kinda want the Steelers to beat Philly.  I don't see it happening though.  Can Big Ben last the season?  Playing at home, I predict the Eagles to win 27-25.



_____________________________

changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes....nothing remains quite the same

The Beerman ~ Greg

(in reply to Cold)
Post #: 249
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/20/2008 3:57:41 PM   
track2514


Posts: 1811
Joined: 9/26/2003
Status: offline 		Beerman

I agree with most of what you said, but I am not sure the Steelers being held to 10 points was due to stellar play by the Browns defense. The Steelers played it safe in crazy weather and with the way they were running the football, they would have racked up many more points on a nice day. Additionally, the Steelers defense was playing so well that there was no need to open up the playbook and take any chances. In regards to Roethlisberger, I am also worried about his health. If you look at his sack/per attempt ratio it is one of the highest in the league. I know he likes to hold the ball and the Steelers O-Line is not the best in the league, but nobody can take being hit as many times as he does and stay healthy forever. He has to play smart and the pass protection has step it up or the Steelers will be without their franchise qb. In regards to the games this weekend, the Steelers will win a close one in Filthadelphia with the final score being 31-28 in favor of the Steelers. The Iggles are an excellent team, but without some of their veteran receivers it is going to be tough to hang with the Steelers defense. The Browns should win this week, but nothing is certain with that bunch. I think they win a very close defensive struggle 10-9 in favor of the Browns.

_____________________________

If its brown flush it down. Here we go Steelers...

(in reply to beerman)
Post #: 250
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/20/2008 8:45:43 PM   
*commander*


Posts: 1834
Status: offline 		bet it. according to trackstats prior predictions being totally WRONG this should be a no-brainer. the stillers should dominate and the browns will lose big. beerman, normally i'd bet with your predictions and you're USUALLY on the money, but trackstat is ALWAYS wrong.

in case you didnt know, trackstats avatar is Coach Noll looking at him like he has no clue what he's talking about.

< Message edited by *commander* -- 9/20/2008 8:50:24 PM >

(in reply to track2514)
Post #: 251
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/20/2008 8:51:17 PM   
tippy-toe


Posts: 4460
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: under a rock
Status: online 		The Stillers will be playing a real football team this week..... Good Luck, should be a good one...

_____________________________

I have the right to remain silent.....I just don't have the ability

(in reply to *commander*)
Post #: 252
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/20/2008 9:02:37 PM   
*commander*


Posts: 1834
Status: offline 		Filthadelpia is tough. if it wasnt for trackstat having no clue, I'd agree and say they'll have a tough time with the iggles.

(in reply to tippy-toe)
Post #: 253
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/20/2008 9:04:52 PM   
*commander*


Posts: 1834
Status: offline 		almost forgot, anyboy in the NFC but the cowboys.

< Message edited by *commander* -- 9/20/2008 9:05:19 PM >

(in reply to *commander*)
Post #: 254
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/20/2008 10:21:05 PM   
gobyking

 

Posts: 1007
Status: offline 		I think the Eagles win this week. Track mushed 'em and the Steelers play crappy on the road. Remember last year favored by 9 in Ny against the Jets? Lost. Same thing favored by 6 in AZ. Lost. And they ain't the Eagles.

(in reply to *commander*)
Post #: 255
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/20/2008 10:37:40 PM   
Rapscallion

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 5/24/2008
Status: offline 		If you're right about him always being wrong and I have no reason to doubt you, we may be in for a long day. After all, he did predict that we would win. 
quote:

ORIGINAL: *commander*

Filthadelpia is tough. if it wasnt for trackstat having no clue, I'd agree and say they'll have a tough time with the iggles.

(in reply to *commander*)
Post #: 256
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/21/2008 7:23:09 PM   
*commander*


Posts: 1834
Status: offline 		good call. i gotta admit i thought the stillers would pull it out. however, again, bet the opposite of trackstat and its $$$ in the bank.

(in reply to Rapscallion)
Post #: 257
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/21/2008 7:31:35 PM   
Mikastorm


Posts: 2927
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Big Ben Stunk!! 15 Philly, Pitts 6.
Bens interseptions killed us.

_____________________________


(in reply to *commander*)
Post #: 258
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/21/2008 7:38:27 PM   
Rapscallion

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 5/24/2008
Status: offline 		Buddy, I'm sorry but to blame that game on big Ben you must be clueless.

(in reply to Mikastorm)
Post #: 259
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/21/2008 7:42:51 PM   
Rapscallion

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 5/24/2008
Status: offline 		No biggie. The game was an anomaly. Line had the worst day of their lives. They were confused the entire afternoon. If they played the game again next week, the Steelers would probably beat them by 15.
quote:

ORIGINAL: *commander*

good call. i gotta admit i thought the stillers would pull it out. however, again, bet the opposite of trackstat and its $$$ in the bank.

(in reply to *commander*)
Post #: 260
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/21/2008 7:54:37 PM   
Mikastorm


Posts: 2927
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		I didn,t blame it all on Ben. Dang, look how many times he was sacked!

_____________________________


(in reply to Rapscallion)
Post #: 261
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/21/2008 7:56:06 PM   
Mikastorm


Posts: 2927
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		It just sucked that everytime we got within 30 he was intersepted.

_____________________________


(in reply to Mikastorm)
Post #: 262
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/21/2008 8:07:30 PM   
Rapscallion

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 5/24/2008
Status: offline 		Did you even watch the game? He was intercepted one time and that was after throwing the ball 50 yards down the field from his own 20 yard line.
Please don't comment anymore. You're sounding worse than that track guy and that is very difficult to do.
Geez!

(in reply to Mikastorm)
Post #: 263
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/21/2008 8:32:21 PM   
Mikastorm


Posts: 2927
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Not on tv, only on the comp. So how many times was he intersepted?
Your imput would solve my delema of not being able to get the game on the tube. Fill free to fill me in as to what went on.
If you ever tried to watch a game from the KDKA game traxx you would understand why I,m saying what I am.


_____________________________


(in reply to Rapscallion)
Post #: 264
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/21/2008 8:36:08 PM   
track2514


Posts: 1811
Joined: 9/26/2003
Status: offline 		Well I must admit I was wrong on the predictions. The Steelers lost a heartbreaker to the Eagles and the Browns got pounded by the Ravens. It is hard to believe that the Ravens are undefeated and now in first place, but hopefully that will not last long. I didn't see the Browns game so I will not comment on what happened, but here is my take on the Steelers game:

Positives
1) The Steelers defense played very well and looked strong in almost every facet of the game, especially Polamalu. His third interception in as many games demonstrates how much of an impact he can make when healthy.
2) Jeff Reed nailed a long field goal and the special teams looked better than ever.
3) Nate Washington and Heath Miller had great games. The Steelers may have the best receiving corps in the league.

Negatives
1) Roethlsberger looked hurt the entire game and did not seem like himself. I really hope Tomlin does the right thing and makes him sit until he is healthy. I think we were fooled by the media reports and he has more than a sore shoulder.
2) The Steelers o-line was atrocious and the could not block anybody. They better figure things out quickly or Roethlisberger will have a short career.
3) What happened to Willie Parker?
4) The execution at the end of the game was horrible. The Steelers should have kicked the field goal and tried for the onside kick.

Overall it was a rather unimpressive effort by the Steelers and I think all of the o-line concerns are definitely justifiable. Let's hope Roethlisberger can get well fast and the o-line figures out how to block before the next game.

_____________________________

If its brown flush it down. Here we go Steelers...

(in reply to track2514)
Post #: 265
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/21/2008 8:39:05 PM   
Grendel


Posts: 2403
Status: offline 		I agree - will be interesting to hear how the coach justified not going for the points as time ran down.

Doc

_____________________________

Science like nature
Must also be tamed
With a view towards its preservation
Given the same state of integrity
It will surely serve us well ~ NP

(in reply to track2514)
Post #: 266
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/21/2008 8:42:29 PM   
Mikastorm


Posts: 2927
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks track. I was right then that Ben was sacked alot right?

_____________________________


(in reply to track2514)
Post #: 267
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/21/2008 8:48:25 PM   
track2514


Posts: 1811
Joined: 9/26/2003
Status: offline 		Mika

Roethlisberger was sacked 7 times I believe and many of them were not his fault. Philly brought the house on almost every play and the Steelers simply could not adjust to their smaller, quicker defensive players. Roethlisberger did not have a very good game, but much of what happened was due to the extreme pressure he was dealing with all day. This loss falls squarely on the shoulders of the o-line. Just to give you an idea also, when Roethlisberger went out due to an injury Leftwich was also sacked twice. The Eagles were blitzing everybody and the Steelers o-line could not even slow them down.

_____________________________

If its brown flush it down. Here we go Steelers...

(in reply to Mikastorm)
Post #: 268
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/21/2008 8:48:33 PM   
Grendel


Posts: 2403
Status: offline 		You could say Ben took a tour of Philadelphia on his back today!  Being sacked 8 times cannot feel good!

Doc

< Message edited by Grendel -- 9/21/2008 8:52:27 PM >

_____________________________

Science like nature
Must also be tamed
With a view towards its preservation
Given the same state of integrity
It will surely serve us well ~ NP

(in reply to Mikastorm)
Post #: 269
RE: 2008 Cleveland Browns ~ Pittsburgh Steelers ~ Others - 9/21/2008 8:56:28 PM   
Rapscallion

 

Posts: 244
Joined: 5/24/2008
Status: offline 		I guess you didn't watch much of the Steelers game either huh? Just how did big Ben look hurt? When did you actually see him set up to throw? At what point in time did you determine that he wasn't himself? Was it the first or eighth time he was picking himself up off of the ground and peeling Eagles from his jersey?
Did his obvious injury prevent him from outrunning the 3-4 defenders that were on top of him before he had a chance to look downfield when passing?
Maybe Tomlin should sit him and let lead foot Leftwich stand there and not even make the defenders have to chase him for their sacks. Yeah, that's what he should do. Great call buddy. Great call.

quote:

ORIGINAL: track2514

Well I must admit I was wrong on the predictions. The Steelers lost a heartbreaker to the Eagles and the Browns got pounded by the Ravens. It is hard to believe that the Ravens are undefeated and now in first place, but hopefully that will not last long. I didn't see the Browns game so I will not comment on what happened, but here is my take on the Steelers game:

Positives
1) The Steelers defense played very well and looked strong in almost every facet of the game, especially Polamalu. His third interception in as many games demonstrates how much of an impact he can make when healthy.
2) Jeff Reed nailed a long field goal and the special teams looked better than ever.
3) Nate Washington and Heath Miller had great games. The Steelers may have the best receiving corps in the league.

Negatives
1) Roethlsberger looked hurt the entire game and did not seem like himself. I really hope Tomlin does the right thing and makes him sit until he is healthy. I think we were fooled by the media reports and he has more than a sore shoulder.
2) The Steelers o-line was atrocious and the could not block anybody. They better figure things out quickly or Roethlisberger will have a short career.
3) What happened to Willie Parker?
4) The execution at the end of the game was horrible. The Steelers should have kicked the field goal and tried for the onside kick.

Overall it was a rather unimpressive effort by the Steelers and I think all of the o-line concerns are definitely justifiable. Let's hope Roethlisberger can get well fast and the o-line figures out how to block before the next game.

(in reply to track2514)
Post #: 270
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