RE: Mountain Lions???? (Full Version)

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S-10 -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/17/2007 5:47:35 PM)

Maybe not. In a barbershop conversation with the local warden the talk turned to mountain lions. His comment at the time was-- the PGC's position is there are no wild mountain lions in Pennsylvania, however if you shoot one and it is not a tame one then it falls under the federal laws and you will be investigated and heavily fined with a possible jail sentence as they are protected in Pa. How is that for covering all the bases. You prove them wrong and they will make you pay. 



Esox_Hunter -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/17/2007 7:46:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Knochout57

esox,
I live on becker rd. off of great belt in butler county.  a mountain lion was shot at by a man on dreher rd. off of bonnie brook and seen by a farmer. i had heard that it was killed in sarver by a farmer after it killed three of his llamas. these sightings would have taken place around the same time as the sighting you are talking about.  I had also heard of people in sarver seeing more than one big cat.



That is almost word for word the same story I heard.  Only difference was that noone I spoke to knew the name of the road where the farmer resides.  Still not positive proof, but I feel better knowing im not the only one who heard it.



Knochout57 -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/17/2007 9:15:32 PM)

I feel pretty confident that it was a mountain lion eventhough i didn't see any proof because I heard this from several different people that definately would not have made it up.  I dunno about people seeing a few of them in sarver but I guess where there it one there must be more.



Maga2120 -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/18/2007 4:50:50 PM)

if there are no mt lions in pa then what do u call a huge cat paw print in the snow and mudd? its no bear and no dog  print its a cat (seen in elk county)



SilverKype -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/18/2007 4:50:58 PM)

I think its just the eastern cougar that's protected here.  I don't think a western would get you a fine if you shot it, whether it was released or migrated here.  I could be wrong but I think only the eastern would get you in trouble.

Spotting last year, I had an animal run in front of me about 50 yards up the road.  I just caught the tail end and I swear it was a cougar, long tail, low to the ground, and everything..

..until I pulled up and turned the spotlight on.  Big old mature doe.

I now understand how cougar's are seen when running.  I was 100% sure it was at the time.  Of course, then we got the guy that shot the spike elk thinking it was a whitetail.  [sm=puppy_dog_eyes.gif]



Knochout57 -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/18/2007 5:09:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

I think its just the eastern cougar that's protected here.  I don't think a western would get you a fine if you shot it, whether it was released or migrated here.  I could be wrong but I think only the eastern would get you in trouble.



how can you get in trouble for shooting a mountain lion in PA when the game commission denies their existance in PA?



mak7464 -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/18/2007 6:27:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverKype

I think its just the eastern cougar that's protected here.  I don't think a western would get you a fine if you shot it, whether it was released or migrated here.  I could be wrong but I think only the eastern would get you in trouble.



If I see one and want to shoot it, how do I tell the difference with out getting close enough to see if his watch is set to pacific time instead of eastern time.



SilverKype -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/18/2007 9:22:41 PM)

That's the thing mak, I certainly couldn't tell you the difference if I tried.  Can anyone?  I don't know.  A cougar is a cougar to me.  I don't know any characteristics that differentiate the two.  There probably is some.  ??

K57 -- because eastern cougars are protected, although there is no proof they still exist.

Would I shoot one ?  [sm=dunno.gif]  I think I'd be too shocked even if I wanted to..

I'd throw a guess out there that if you saw one, it'd be a released western.  I don't think there would be anyway to prove it migrated, if that was the case.



nightowl207 -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/19/2007 2:37:03 AM)

    The eastern mountain lion is extinct. The only difference is their where they were originally from, there is no physical differences. There are none left that their ancesters came originally from eastern North America. (supposedly). I believe it. I think the only ones existant in eastern north america now were brought from the west by human or raised by human. Not saying the PGC, but humans in general. People can buy them pretty cheap. Cougars do not migrate, they are an area domaining animal. The only ways they can spread is if there is an overpopulation of cougars which pushes them farther from there originating areas. (There is nowhere that has that many in the country for this to happen.) Or they get pushed out by human. Human is the only way they can get into eastern US.
   As for getting fined if you shoot one. Its the same thing if you shot a wooly mammoth (just an example) that was supposed to be extinct. well if you shot one that means there was at least one and that makes them endangered, which is illegal to shoot an endangered animal. If this makes sense to you , this is how i would understand their reasoning for fining someone.  
   As for shooting one if you see it. I wouldnt. Unless it is threatening your life, leave it be. Take a picture.  



SilverKype -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/19/2007 8:11:00 AM)

Cougars do not migrate, they are an area domaining animal. The only ways they can spread is if there is an overpopulation of cougars which pushes them farther from there originating areas. (There is nowhere that has that many in the country for this to happen.) Or they get pushed out by human. Human is the only way they can get into eastern US.
 
A Montana cougar was tagged (a study to get a better understanding on their habits), followed into Kansas.  Over 600 miles.

Google -- 'cougars eastward migration'  or anything of that nature.

Study after study proves their on going movement.  Check out this map. 

http://www.easterncougarnet.org/bigpicture.html

South Dakota is being blamed for stocking them!!!  lol

Iowa hunters blame DNR for importing them!!! [:)]




nightowl207 -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/19/2007 4:46:40 PM)

I guess i was mistaken. I read somewhere before that they claim an area such as a bear will. Did your findings say this was common for them to migrate that far.



scaremypsu -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/19/2007 5:05:30 PM)

Its more of a dispersal to find and set up a new territory, then a migration.  A migration is more of an annual movement.  Also, genetic analysis is probably the only way you would be able to tell the difference.  Since the two populations were geographically isolated and prevented interbreeding, they would be genetically discernable.  Its pretty amazing what scientist are able to do in the lab.  There has been a lot of research latley using stable isotope analysis that allows researchers to look at feathers in birds and acctually determine where what geographical area they were hatched, molted or staged.



SilverKype -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/19/2007 10:41:52 PM)

They say the finding in the plains are recent and numbers are growing.



dakotab -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/20/2007 1:17:43 PM)

This ought to cover whether it is legal to shoot one or not.  This is the last thing in the season's and bag limits section.  If it doesn't have a season.......YOU CAN'T SHOOT IT!

No open season on other wild birds or mammals. Waterfowl and Migratory Game Bird seasons will be established in accordance with Federal Regulations this summer.



SilverKype -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/20/2007 1:34:52 PM)

Some readings for those interested.

http://www.fws.gov/northeast/ECougar/



treesparrow -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (12/23/2007 1:16:48 AM)

  I know very little about Cougars or Mountain Lions in Pa. As a Forester I have walked year round in most of the central and western counties and never come across a cat track larger than a Bobcats. However I have known and met quite a few people who have some real convincing tales of sightings.
Also I keep hearing mention of the Eastern Cougar being extinct. I have spent a lot of time in Ontario where there is a population of Cats ( Cougars- Mt. Lions I don't know). They were unsure about the population and did a study and found far more evidence than they thought they would. You can enter sights on the computer and see the credible sightings ,tracks found ,and scat found map. Now if those are indigenous cats and they are north of us by only 200 miles wouldn't they be the Eastern Cougar? I stay at a camp on the Georgian Bay of lake Huron owned by the mother of a man I have know since he was a baby. He now has his Doctorat in Wildlife Biology and was involved in some of the study. I will ask him this coming summer if he they know if they are Eastern Cougars or not. I know he told me they were figuring that the population was greater than what they thought they would find.
















































Indian Summer -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (7/9/2008 8:36:23 AM)

I hunt them regularly in Montana. Feds will not control lion hunting if it were considered. They control wolves because they were on the Federal list of endangered species. They have recently been removed from that list and the western states are prepared to have a wolf season this year. The people who do have some influence on hunting whether it's wolves, black footed ferrets, mountain lions here, in Montana, or California where it is illegal, are the anti hunters. They file lawsuits against the state for improper management. Once the Feds delist a species the state has the responsibility to manage the species as they see fit. I keep my lion hounds here in Pa. If anyone ever actually sees one send me a PM and I'll come run it up a tree. My aunt saw one several times near Hooker just north of Butler. F&G just look like fools denying their existence. I'd love to call the local news channel for some live footage. They interviewed me once while I was selling hunts at the Monroeville Outdoor show. It was already in the news because someone in Carrick said they saw one. They asked what I thought. I said it's not bigfoot you know. They lived here before and there is a legitimate population right up in Ontario. What's the big deal about admitting we have them? I don't get it.



S-10 -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (7/9/2008 10:23:24 PM)

If they admit it then we have an endangered species and will have to devise a management plan, stop doing anything that might harm it's habitat, perhaps set aside thousands of acres for it to roam in, curtail hunting, drilling, etc. Probably have a few lawsuits fron the animal rights people. Sometimes your better off not knowing.



MuskyMastr -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (7/10/2008 12:06:10 AM)

There is a biologist at University out east (Mansfield maybe) that will pay $10,000 for DNA to determine whether or not it is an eastern cougar.

I have tracked damn near everthing that walks at one time or another and I can tell you with confidence that I found a set of cougar tracks in NC PA three winters ago.



Mikastorm -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (7/10/2008 10:40:14 PM)

Thank you Ike. My cous. saw one at camp, for sure!



leadmen -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (7/15/2008 5:24:46 AM)

what is so hard to belive they have been here even in ohio one was found dead hit by a car north of rt 80 on rt 11 in ohio  a few years  back the warden went out scrapped it up and said it was a cross bread rare but from the area that was west of sharron pa by 6miles lots of woods they can hide in also one was shot in athens ohio during a deer hunt rare but still alive and when i was a kid seen one outside of eaden angola on rt 90 in newyork called a mountain cat cougar or ive even heard a catamount hope they dont need to close the alleg nat forest for that cooks forest is a good place they would close the whole forest lol



scaremypsu -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (7/15/2008 9:08:58 PM)

Where is the population in Ontario?  I go to school up there and have seen a few reports on the news.  One report was of a horse that was found injured one morning.  Apperenlty something was chasing it at night and they concluded it was a mountain lion ( no evidence at all),  I laughed my butt off.  If you want to see some people who don't know crap about wildlife, go see some of the people they hire for the MNR and CWS.  They are people from the city who couldn't tell a coyote from a rabbit.



scaremypsu -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (7/15/2008 9:12:12 PM)

S-10, they already are on the endangered species act and they do currently have a recovery plan that was enacted in 1973.  The only problem is there is no solid evidence they exist.  If they went on sightings alone, we may enact a recovery plan for bigfoot, aliens, and the lake erie monster as well.



03GruntPa -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (7/15/2008 9:40:11 PM)

I just started hunting coyotes this past year, and living in millcreek, just outside of erie, there are coyotes all over the place. ALL over the place. I've heard them 5 min from my house ... Only killed one so far but learning quick. Millcreek, mckean, boro, waterford... go sit out in the woods at night and you'll more than likely hear something. I didnt believe it untill i actually went out. Just like the commission wont admit to bringn coyotes in, I wouldnt doubt for a second if theres mountain lions around...



leadmen -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (7/16/2008 10:44:11 AM)

a tie is not the right thing to ware when in the woods a lot of peeps that tell us its there or not. could not track a bear pulling a sled .there still looking for the bread trail



gobyking -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (7/21/2008 3:12:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nightowl207

   The eastern mountain lion is extinct. The only difference is their where they were originally from, there is no physical differences. There are none left that their ancesters came originally from eastern North America. (supposedly). I believe it. I think the only ones existant in eastern north america now were brought from the west by human or raised by human. Not saying the PGC, but humans in general. People can buy them pretty cheap. Cougars do not migrate, they are an area domaining animal. The only ways they can spread is if there is an overpopulation of cougars which pushes them farther from there originating areas. (There is nowhere that has that many in the country for this to happen.) Or they get pushed out by human. Human is the only way they can get into eastern US.
  As for getting fined if you shoot one. Its the same thing if you shot a wooly mammoth (just an example) that was supposed to be extinct. well if you shot one that means there was at least one and that makes them endangered, which is illegal to shoot an endangered animal. If this makes sense to you , this is how i would understand their reasoning for fining someone.  
  As for shooting one if you see it. I wouldnt. Unless it is threatening your life, leave it be. Take a picture.  

How do you know it is extinct? Did you traverse all barren wilderness to find this out? Remember that a formerly classified extinct fish was caught off the coast of Africa in recent years.



Over the Hill -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (7/21/2008 3:24:47 PM)

The one in chicago was wild............http://www.wbbm780.com/pages/2013841.php?



Over the Hill -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (7/21/2008 3:54:26 PM)

Cougar DNA traces to South Dakota... long walk .....
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-cougar-dna-wisconsin-web-may01,0,10686.story



thedrake -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (7/22/2008 11:47:00 AM)

My father is a newspaper editor in a rural area with a lot of forest. He's been the editor over 20 years. Every year he receives numerous calls about sightings of bigfoot, ghosts, UFOs and some other strange things I can't remember, but he has never received a call about a mountain lion. Apparently there are more bigfoots and UFOs than mountain lions.



gobyking -> RE: Mountain Lions???? (7/24/2008 2:16:13 AM)

Your dad is way the hell out east in Altoona and we are way the hell out west in
bigfoot country. Bigfoot is reel. So is UFO's. Don't you know the bigfeet travel east from Salt Fork State Park in Ohio in the summer to western PA foothills? Get with the program,



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