RE: Mountain Lions????

RE: Mountain Lions????

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RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/30/2007 5:54:44 PM

nightowl207

Posts: 422
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i never said the pgc stocked coyotes or mountains or anything. i stated my friend shot a coyote that had a tag and he called the local pgc and they told him they didnt know anything about it. they didnt want the numbers off it or any other info. ill ask him if hes got pictures, he may still have the tag. i didnt say it was stocked. i said it was tagged, for whatever reason. if you read my whole thread, my point was that there are many ways animals get into pennsylvania. if you want to buy a mountain lion, you can. if you wanna buy a coyote, you can. if you wanna buy a wolf, you can. if you wanna buy any other animal you can think of, you can if you persue.
my point was aimed at the original post to state that mountain lions can get here many ways, that i believe there are no true eastern mountain lions left, and that the ones that are in pa are most likely brought here by civilians. what happens when someone buys one has it caged up without proper inspected permit and cage, and it breaks out of its cage. someones gonna see it eventually, then you have a mountain lion sighting and spectulation where it came from. if you dont think its that easy to get exotic animals, your wrong. just because its illegal dont mean shyt. how do you think cocaine gets into pa, someone goes outa state buys it and brings it back, or maybe the game commission stocked it.
maybe i dont see my thread right but i saw nowhere in my thread where i said the game commission stocked coyotes and mountain lions. i did say i believe the pgc tries to keep hidden the mountains that are found and sighted for many reasons. for one the scare factor to civilians. and other reasons that are just my spectulation. but personally i believe they dont wanna advertise when one is found or sighted.

(in reply to TransAmWS6)

Post #: 31

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 11/30/2007 6:33:11 PM

Slate_Drake_9

Posts: 160
Joined: 2/10/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedrake
I'm not doubting your story, but i'm unsure why the fire department and police were called to respond to a car accident involving a mountain lion? Did the car hit a tree also? I just cant see something the size of a mountain lion doing a lot of damage to a car.

I have no idea why they were called. I don't care why they were called. I was just sharing information from a very creditable source about this topic for others to do what they want with it.

The other info in my post was shared for the same reason. I find it funny that these agencies feel a need to discredit something if nothing exist to discredit in the first place.

Overall, I find it odd that so many people on this board are so invested in this that it now looks like an argument instead of what it started out being. To me this just indicates that there are a lot of people out there who do not trust the PA Game Mismanagement Commission as much or more than I don't. I also see there are a lot of people who do not seem to understand why there are so many folks out there who mistrust the PA Game Mismanagement Commission with all of their poor management practices that only seem to propagate money for the PGC and not wildlife for the hunters.

And finally...

When I came home from work tonight there was a Bigfoot in my back yard giving itself an abortion with a wire coat hanger. It did not have a tag in it's ear, but it did have gold teeff.

Have a nice day.

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(in reply to thedrake)

Post #: 32

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/1/2007 10:07:36 AM

TransAmWS6

Posts: 699
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: West Mifflin
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not bigfoot, maybe flava flav

(in reply to Slate_Drake_9)

Post #: 33

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/1/2007 7:14:14 PM

rippinlip

Posts: 428
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LOL!!!

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Post #: 34

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/2/2007 12:54:30 AM

spoonchucker

Posts: 5833
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"I also see there are a lot of people who do not seem to understand why there are so many folks out there who mistrust the PA Game Mismanagement Commission with all of their poor management practices"

Yeah, especially given the TERRIBLE job

they have done with the bear, and turkey populations.

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Post #: 35

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/2/2007 10:21:20 AM

Slate_Drake_9

Posts: 160
Joined: 2/10/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: spoonchucker

"I also see there are a lot of people who do not seem to understand why there are so many folks out there who mistrust the PA Game Mismanagement Commission with all of their poor management practices"

Yeah, especially given the TERRIBLE job they have done with the bear, and turkey populations.

I believe that they did do a terrible job with the bear population. Now they had to extend the season in several areas in the state to deal with the increase in bear/human problems that didn't exist when the bear population was in good shape years ago. If you look at bear kill numbers, the traditional bear territory counties have not changed dramatically, their still good. To me, it seems that again, they saw an opportunity to increase the amount of money they made and did it without thinking about the downfalls. Now folks have problems with the bears and a lot of folks believe, true or false, that bears are hurting the deer population.

As far as turkeys, you can't walk in the woods without tripping on one it seems. I count hundreds of them a day driving back and forth to work. They are the new deer in Pennsylvania. Eventually folks will be complaining about them being over populated and stunted in growth, etc., etc., ect. Heck, the PA Game Mismanagement Commission has already started selling extra turkey permits too. More money for them, but overall, what is the real benifit to the hunters? I'm not an expert on these matters, but I believe that turkeys eat about the same diet as grouse do, so this may be a contributing factor to our dwindling grouse populations. Who knows?

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Post #: 36

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/2/2007 6:57:01 PM

spoonchucker

Posts: 5833
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So having a bear population that is large enough to create bear/human conflicts is bad, But having a deer population that creates MUCH higher DEER/human conflicts is GOOD?

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Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

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(in reply to Slate_Drake_9)

Post #: 37

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/2/2007 8:34:30 PM

nightowl207

Posts: 422
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slate_Drake_9

quote:

ORIGINAL: spoonchucker

"I also see there are a lot of people who do not seem to understand why there are so many folks out there who mistrust the PA Game Mismanagement Commission with all of their poor management practices"

Yeah, especially given the TERRIBLE job they have done with the bear, and turkey populations.

I believe that they did do a terrible job with the bear population. Now they had to extend the season in several areas in the state to deal with the increase in bear/human problems that didn't exist when the bear population was in good shape years ago. If you look at bear kill numbers, the traditional bear territory counties have not changed dramatically, their still good. To me, it seems that again, they saw an opportunity to increase the amount of money they made and did it without thinking about the downfalls. Now folks have problems with the bears and a lot of folks believe, true or false, that bears are hurting the deer population.

As far as turkeys, you can't walk in the woods without tripping on one it seems. I count hundreds of them a day driving back and forth to work. They are the new deer in Pennsylvania. Eventually folks will be complaining about them being over populated and stunted in growth, etc., etc., ect. Heck, the PA Game Mismanagement Commission has already started selling extra turkey permits too. More money for them, but overall, what is the real benifit to the hunters? I'm not an expert on these matters, but I believe that turkeys eat about the same diet as grouse do, so this may be a contributing factor to our dwindling grouse populations. Who knows?

the population of animals is only spectulation and guestimation. the population of a certain area is completely different from another. you say the turkey population is so high, i havent even seen a dozen since spring where i live. everyone in my area is complaining the turkey population is so low.
    the bear population is nothing out of the ordinary. there were less bear killed this year than last year. theres more reasons than just that there is too high of population for the pgc to extend seasons. What exactly would the bear population have an effect on the deer population? Nothing drastic enough to notice in my eyes. Maybe the fact a bear ate a grape that a deer was gonna eat?
   the gamebirds, (pheasants/grouse/etc.) i do agree are dwindling. it has nothing to do with turkeys. the fox, the coyote, and other predators are raising in population. why? because the drastic decrease in trapping and hunting of these animals.
   i do agree that most of the motive the pgc has on there decisions they make is based on money. In my opinion you cant manage some that mother nature is supposed to manage. mother nature cant manage because of the main problem in the world, THE HUMAN POPULATION.

(in reply to Slate_Drake_9)

Post #: 38

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/2/2007 9:58:50 PM

Slate_Drake_9

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quote:

In my opinion you cant manage some that mother nature is supposed to manage. mother nature cant manage because of the main problem in the world, THE HUMAN POPULATION.

I can't disagree with you on this one. I know many many folks in my neck of the woods who would support a 5 human limit during "tourist season" in Potter County. Even with this liberal of a bag limit, I don't think the population would be dented enough.

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Post #: 39

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/2/2007 10:08:10 PM

Slate_Drake_9

Posts: 160
Joined: 2/10/2004
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quote:

you say the turkey population is so high, i havent even seen a dozen since spring where i live. everyone in my area is complaining the turkey population is so low.

You must live in the only area of the state without so many turkeys that you will trip on them. I've seen them in great numbers in every corner of the state and everywhere in between. What is your secret for low turkey numbers, as I would love to see a population crash. All of the spring gobbler hunters end up helping the overcrowding of the streams in my area just about every afternoon during the season. Once Orvis starts to make a camo fishing rod, they will make a mint.

At the rate the PA Game Mismanagement Commission is going, they will up the price of a turkey tag and offer 400,000 extra tags for WMU's 2G and 3A.

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Post #: 40

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/2/2007 11:29:50 PM

Maga2120

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yeah im with you slate_drake. i see turkey all the time. i travel around western pa for work alot and thats the one thing i see alot of in the fields.

(in reply to Slate_Drake_9)

Post #: 41

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/3/2007 12:16:21 AM

nightowl207

Posts: 422
Status: offline

i live about 10mile south of franklin, venango co.. like i said population of an animal varies dramatically throughout the state. there may be a thousand turkeys in one place then 10miles away theres only one flock. predators, food sources, new development, and other things change there population of areas. the 10mile radius from where i live, the turkeys are far and few. same with pheasants, grouse, and rabbits. The coyote and fox have been on the rise. noone hunts or traps them anymore. I havent hunted coyotes for about 4-5 years now. Its bout time to bust out the gear and wipe some out.

(in reply to Maga2120)

Post #: 42

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/3/2007 12:21:20 AM

mak7464

Posts: 218
Joined: 9/28/2005
From: South Pymatuning Township, PA
Status: offline

Rare pennsylvania mountain lion "cougar" images just captured recently......

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Post #: 43

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/3/2007 8:35:14 AM

bingsbaits

Posts: 952
Joined: 3/1/2007
From: spartansburg,pa
Status: offline

Good link.Trans.. There was a good population of yotes here. But the last 2 years the coyote hunters have pounded hell out of em. Numbers and sightings are way down..They seemed to by quite hard on the Turkey and small game populations. With them thinned out there seems to be a small rebound in the grouse and Turkey. Getting grouse flushes where we haven't seen birds in 10 years...

< Message edited by bingsbaits -- 12/3/2007 8:39:53 AM >

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Post #: 44

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/3/2007 1:25:56 PM

thedrake

Posts: 1512
Joined: 11/14/2005
From: Hollidaysburg, PA
Status: offline

Here's another photo of a rare PA mountain lion. This one is trying to disguise itself as a deer. I bet the PGC are stocking them with antlers on their heads so they can sneak closer to deer and eat more of them.

(in reply to bingsbaits)

Post #: 45

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/3/2007 3:43:01 PM

TransAmWS6

Posts: 699
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From: West Mifflin
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hahaha!

(in reply to thedrake)

Post #: 46

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/3/2007 7:13:53 PM

Slate_Drake_9

Posts: 160
Joined: 2/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedrake

Here's another photo of a rare PA mountain lion. This one is trying to disguise itself as a deer. I bet the PGC are stocking them with antlers on their heads so they can sneak closer to deer and eat more of them.

I think they are stocking these animals to trick people into believing that there are still bucks in PA.

_____________________________

Fishing with bait is like swearing in church.

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Post #: 47

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/3/2007 8:08:06 PM

nightowl207

Posts: 422
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lol that kitty looks hes gonna bite your a$$. dont seem real happy.

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Post #: 48

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/3/2007 9:15:50 PM

SilverKype

Posts: 3821
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: State
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedrake

Here's another photo of a rare PA mountain lion. This one is trying to disguise itself as a deer. I bet the PGC are stocking them with antlers on their heads so they can sneak closer to deer and eat more of them.

If you would have let him go another year those would have made some nice rattling antlers.

(in reply to thedrake)

Post #: 49

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/3/2007 9:59:46 PM

Mikastorm

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Joined: 10/18/2006
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A horny pussy!

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Post #: 50

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/4/2007 12:08:49 AM

mak7464

Posts: 218
Joined: 9/28/2005
From: South Pymatuning Township, PA
Status: offline

Hell thats not even legal in my WMU Horny Pussy Mountain Lions have to have 5 points to a side before you can kill em.

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Post #: 51

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/7/2007 7:46:46 AM

cabst119

Posts: 68
Joined: 6/11/2005
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quote:

"the population of animals is only spectulation and guestimation. the population of a certain area is completely different from another. you say the turkey population is so high, i havent even seen a dozen since spring where i live. everyone in my area is complaining the turkey population is so low.
the bear population is nothing out of the ordinary. there were less bear killed this year than last year. theres more reasons than just that there is too high of population for the pgc to extend seasons. What exactly would the bear population have an effect on the deer population? Nothing drastic enough to notice in my eyes. Maybe the fact a bear ate a grape that a deer was gonna eat?
the gamebirds, (pheasants/grouse/etc.) i do agree are dwindling. it has nothing to do with turkeys. the fox, the coyote, and other predators are raising in population. why? because the drastic decrease in trapping and hunting of these animals.
i do agree that most of the motive the pgc has on there decisions they make is based on money. In my opinion you cant manage some that mother nature is supposed to manage. mother nature cant manage because of the main problem in the world, THE HUMAN POPULATION. "

Actually studies on fawn mortality show that more fawns are killed by bears than by coyotes, foxes, raccoons, bobcats, and vehicles combined.

(in reply to nightowl207)

Post #: 52

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/7/2007 9:51:05 AM

scaremypsu

Posts: 147
Joined: 6/25/2006
Status: offline

"I have no idea why they were called. I don't care why they were called. I was just sharing information from a very creditable source about this topic for others to do what they want with it.

The other info in my post was shared for the same reason. I find it funny that these agencies feel a need to discredit something if nothing exist to discredit in the first place.

Overall, I find it odd that so many people on this board are so invested in this that it now looks like an argument instead of what it started out being. "To me this just indicates that there are a lot of people out there who do not trust the PA Game Mismanagement Commission as much or more than I don't. I also see there are a lot of people who do not seem to understand why there are so many folks out there who mistrust the PA Game Mismanagement Commission with all of their poor management practices that only seem to propagate money for the PGC and not wildlife for the hunters.

And finally...

When I came home from work tonight there was a Bigfoot in my back yard giving itself an abortion with a wire coat hanger. It did not have a tag in it's ear, but it did have gold teeff.

Have a nice day"

The reason these threads always turn into arguments is because people such as yourself dont think before they write. "I also see there are a lot of people who do not seem to understand why there are so many folks out there who mistrust the PA Game Mismanagement Commission with all of their poor management practices that only seem to propagate money for the PGC and not wildlife for the hunters" Have you ever read the annual report in the game news, or on the website to see where money is acctually spent? I will give you a hint, http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?A=520&Q=170922

< Message edited by scaremypsu -- 12/7/2007 9:52:22 AM >

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Post #: 53

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/7/2007 1:32:53 PM

thedrake

Posts: 1512
Joined: 11/14/2005
From: Hollidaysburg, PA
Status: offline

I always think its funny when people believe the PGC is in place simply to produce more game for them to kill. A good example is the current deer herd. People believe that the PGC has an obligation to make sure hunters see 20 deer in a day. We all know thats not why they exist.

I guess I am partially to blame for this thread turning into a joke. Sorry if thats the case.

I, like many, find the distrust of the PGC to be somewhat rediculous. I think what a lot of these stories about coyotes and cougars being stocked to eliminate the deer herd, comes down to people blaming their lack of success, onto something other than not putting time into scouting, or spending time in the woods.

I personally would not doubt the existance of mountain lions in PA, but I seriously doubt the pgc stocking them.

< Message edited by thedrake -- 12/8/2007 11:55:44 AM >

(in reply to scaremypsu)

Post #: 54

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/7/2007 2:16:42 PM

scaremypsu

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Sorry, I was quoting somone from above with my response, I should figure out how to use the quote button so it is easier to figure out what part of it I wrote.

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Post #: 55

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/8/2007 2:13:39 AM

nightowl207

Posts: 422
Status: offline

QUOTE
"The reason these threads always turn into arguments is because people such as yourself dont think before they write. "I also see there are a lot of people who do not seem to understand why there are so many folks out there who mistrust the PA Game Mismanagement Commission with all of their poor management practices that only seem to propagate money for the PGC and not wildlife for the hunters" Have you ever read the annual report in the game news, or on the website to see where money is acctually spent? I will give you a hint, http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?A=520&Q=170922 "

this chart on this website is there to make the people happy. so bland it tells nothing. anyone can draw a circle, sector it off, and put some labels on it. i just wanna see a chart that says how much gas the average pgc or pfbc burns up in a day in there full size pickups and suvs. them gas hogs run from the time the officer is on the clock till their off the clock. my guestimate would be around $100 in gas a day average per unit. they need to make them run around in some minivans or something. them ford pickups and suvs only get 10-15mpg.
     this is just an example how these big organisations operate. instead of losing the dead weight to save money they "need", theyll just ask for more money, whether it be grants, taxing, inflating costs,etc.
     my father worked for a juvinile detention center for 20yrs. the company never had a network computer system, workers were writing reports and other crap by hand in the 21st century because "the company couldnt afford it". and this was the main reason for the fall of the business. meanwhile theres head honchos sitting in there offices in another county, that have never even seen any of the facilities since my father started there, that are working 2-3 hrs a day and make $300,000 a year. so instead of the "head honchos" and there wifes that are on payroll taking a paycut to save the company, they raise counties rates on housing these kids. which led to counties not sending kids to them. which led to the demise of the company.
        In my example, the lack of a computer systems were what was needed. the reasoning for not having this was no money. the "head honchos and their relatives on payroll that were overpaid were the dead weight that was taking up the money. raising counties rates to house juvinile criminals was the justification. which lead to counties not suppling kids which ultimately lead to the the demise of the organisation.
        In my example of the PGC, the service to the people is what is needed. the reasoning for lack of service is there is no money. only one example of many is the low economical vehicles that are the dead weight taking up the money. raising license fees, adding permits, and other fees are the justification. which will lead to people not buying license which will lead to the demise of the organisation.

Just my opinion

< Message edited by nightowl207 -- 12/8/2007 2:21:41 AM >

(in reply to scaremypsu)

Post #: 56

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/9/2007 8:18:04 AM

bingsbaits

Posts: 952
Joined: 3/1/2007
From: spartansburg,pa
Status: offline

My only mistrust for the PGC is because it is a government run bureaucracy. Which as we all know doesn't always choose the most economical or prudent way to do things.Gas guzzling trucks...Case in point stocking pheasants--cost to raise-$22 a bird..buy from private pheasant farms--$8.50..That was 10 years ago..
Hate to say it but I trust the general hunting population less than the PGC. How many lie to the PGC by not sending in report of harvest cards. Just like not voting and whining about who got elected.
Telling STORIES about killing tagged yotes. Been hearing about it for 20 years I have never seen proof...YOU?? First dead yote I saw was in '87 in Corry, PA. No tags in his ears...

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Post #: 57

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/10/2007 11:59:43 AM

washdog

Posts: 57
Joined: 9/10/2006
Status: online

Drake - There is definately a problem with the Pa. deer herd, I Spend 5 days in the Allegheny national forest every year leading up to and during the annual bear season and have only seen 7 deer total in the last three years of hunting up there. Most of my time in the woods is spent walking not sitting so I cover alot of ground. It is a joke. The Pa. game Comm. is allowing the herd to be wiped out and everybody has tags to shoot two or three deer and these are the results, no deer. Wait a few more years there sightings will compete with that of the Mountain Lion. If you guys really believe its not all about money and politics your fools. How about all the falsely inflated claims from the insurance companys about deer / vehicle accidents. These play a huge role in allocated deer tags. I have a 72 acre farm in Butler Co. Taking only a few deer per year in our group of hunters usually two to four guys we are able to keep a nice bunch of deer around the property. But the neighboring farm has decided to kill all that moves and have been reported poaching repeatedly with no action by your wonderful PGC, They actually came out (the PGC ) and hid in the woods and watched deer being hauled out at night in a truck and after staking out the shot untagged deer for 2 hours waiting for the poachers to return left them load and drive off because he said he was alone. Its all chicken **** bullcrap and there will be no deer left in Pa, in our lifetime. They have wiped them out before and there doing it again. Pa. is like the wild west for poachers with absolutely minimal enforcement. Where does all the money go ? We the sportsman and Liscense holders will never truely get that report. Just one mans opinion.

(in reply to bingsbaits)

Post #: 58

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/16/2007 5:49:15 PM

Knochout57

Posts: 12
Joined: 12/13/2007
Status: offline

esox,
I live on becker rd. off of great belt in butler county. a mountain lion was shot at by a man on dreher rd. off of bonnie brook and seen by a farmer. i had heard that it was killed in sarver by a farmer after it killed three of his llamas. these sightings would have taken place around the same time as the sighting you are talking about. I had also heard of people in sarver seeing more than one big cat.

(in reply to TransAmWS6)

Post #: 59

RE: Mountain Lions???? - 12/17/2007 5:11:38 PM

spoonchucker

Posts: 5833
Status: offline

Don't you think that if a local farmer, shot a killed a mountain lion ( hence had evidence IE: a carcass ) that one of the first people he would call would be the newspaper? Or are they in on the conspiracy too?

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to Knochout57)

Post #: 60

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