Conserve what's left Moderaters (Full Version)

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Pizzapro -> Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 8:16:32 AM)

This will surely ruffle some feathers and has been broached before but....The moderaters and owners of the board should consider deleting all posts mentioning specific places.I have frequented other boards where this has become common practice.I know that there are no secret spots but there are less frequented areas that can and will be posted should anglers on this board continue to mention specific areas.I know of 2 areas that have been pummeled recently with anglers because of this board.One specifically was mentioned by a respected bait shop last year one time only.The area saw maybe a 4 cars at a time but now sports around 15-20 during the week.I have my doubts whether this area will be able to support the pressure from anglers not from a fishing point of view but the relationship with landowners.I cringe when guys post a specific place knowing what will take place in the coming days.Enough is enough save these areas from being exploited please!



Bughawk -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 8:42:29 AM)

Pizzapro makes the main point many have been making for years.  Most of the streams in Erie run through private property and we only have access to the stream because of the good graces of the landowners.  With the increases in people fishing for steelies, many who show little or no respect for the landowners, it will not take too much to get some good spots posted.  I know for a fact that there is a section of Elk that almost was posted this year due directly to disrespectful fisherman whose behavior was absolutely outrageous.  It took quite a bit of work to convince the property owners to keep the stream open, but it won't take too much for them to shut it down and if they do, not only will their land be closed, but it will block access to a good portion of stream that you will not be able to get to without trespassing through their land or walking a LONG way from another access point.

The bottom line is when you post specific locations on the upper portions of the streams you are basically inviting people to fish in on someone's land.  If you want to talk about public access areas, that is fine or to give general information about the stream, but PLEASE do not post specific locations, or as someone did on another thread, GPS coordinates.  Respect the landowners and their land.



Youghman -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 9:17:48 AM)

Very good idea.
Posting specific spots is much different from giving tips, help and advice on HOW to fish.
We don't need to spoon-feed people, as to EXACTLY WHERE to fish.



WaxWorm -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 9:22:18 AM)

I think it might be to late for anything to be done.



MackJ -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 9:25:51 AM)

I spoke to a land owner on the lower part of Elk who was prepared to post her land because of too many anglers.  That evening, someone posted that the fish were at Sterretania.  The next morning, everyone went to Sterretania to fish and her property was almost abandoned entirely just because of the post about Sterrentania.  She decided not to post her land because she concluded the crowds were not as bad as she originally thought.  That was a close one.  Just think of the result if that post didn't happen-- everyone would have returned to her land and she would have ended up posting.

[To avoid any misunderstanding, this is a hypothetical, similar to the theories in the posts above].



Bughawk -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 9:50:58 AM)

MackJ,

Did you bother to listen to the logic of your post?  Basically, if an area is getting pounded by fisherman, post a different area and they all will go there.  You are making the point we have been making.

So the idea is to shift the crowds so they can overrun a different part of the stream and bother the landowners at a different location is fine.  At least it is OK with the one landowner you talked with.  Brilliant idea. 



anadromous -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 10:05:15 AM)

The biggest secret ever let out of the bag is Erie itself...but the fish are running,with them will be fishermen .There will always be this debate over posting spots. More and more fisherman will come, until at some point the fad fisherman will start golfing again, the faint of heart will not brave the cold and then only the ones with the love of the sport will be on the water. Many of us avoid  areas because of crowds. We choose to fish on a few fish with little or no people, effectivly elimating a few more people who may have been at a spot so.....who knows. The bottom line is, you tell a thousand people that the fish are jumping in your pocket at The chutes...750 wouldn't believe you, 200 wouldn't walk that far, 25 couldn't find it without map quest...15 couldn't catch a fish with quarter stic of dynamite, 5 would get sidetracked at the stop sign hole and us five will be eating eggs and sucking down coffee until the water temp comes up a bit and then we will commence to catching some steel. C'mon guys, there's a war going on...this is just fishing, a jerk on one end waiting for a jerk on the other.  



MackJ -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 10:05:45 AM)

The logic of my post was adopting the logic of the prior posts.  It is a fantasy that a post on a message board causes flocks of anglers to converge on that spot.  But -- and this is the point -- assuming that was the case, anglers going to one spot must neccessarily be reducing pressure on the spots they otherwise would have gone.  The number of anglers is finite.  Either they are all crowded into the best known spots that some of the "five stars" think are OK to post about, or they are spread out more evenly among the dozens upon dozens of miles of creek. 

I have seen these types of threads/posts for many years in many different destinations and they all come down to the same thing-- while people try to appear that they are concerned for the fish, landowner relations, etc., etc., they really are concerned about finding a few extra fishermen in "their" favorite spot. 



D-nymph -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 10:33:41 AM)

I agree with the original post.



Bughawk -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 10:42:31 AM)

I would agree that we are talking about fishing, and it is not a life or death issue.  There is no reason for people getting their noses out of joint.  I would also tend to agree that not everyone who reads the posts here are going to jump into their car, grab their GPS and walk to the exact spot some yahoo posted he slammed 100 fishing 30 minutes, but out of that 1000 who do read the post, if only 1 percent do, and they tell their friends, who tell their friends, etc...  you get the picture.  We have lost sections of streams to posting and leasing.  Some of these areas were posted before the leasing, but the posting in one instance was due directly to a fisherman behaving extremely badly. 

These streams are small, some portions run right through people's backyards.  Over the years these folks have had to live with fisherman wandering around on their property.  Some don't care and ask that you just stay in the creek, others would prefer you not there, but will tolerate you if you show some respect, and there are others that are fed up with stupid people.  All I am asking if please think before you post. 

As for protecting specific honey holes, there are some who do, but there are others who are protecting them for all of us.  Please realize that when you post a specific spot, your action can be seen as being disrepectful of the landowners by inviting people to their property without knowing if they want the fisherman there or not.

If you are serious about fishing there is plenty of information out there that will tell you where to fish.  There are maps on this site with parking area marked on them.  You can contact the local bait and tackle shops for more detailed information, you can look at the weather reports and learn what the conditions are and you can ask individuals who fish the streams all the time for pointers.  The information is there, all you need to do is put it together.



Presquisleanglr -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 10:47:26 AM)

Reasons reasons, reason, this seams to be the question why post a specific location? I personally will post an hole where fish are holding simply because the fish are there and by some chance a angler might have some luck to go and catch some . There are no fences in the water and soon the fish will move on or be taken out. Much like opening day of trout inland the stalk truck dumps fish anglers flock to the stalked areas catch fish and leave. This brings up the question of why gripe about it? This is and always will be the nature of the sport. Maturing in the sport changes every one's opinion of what the sport means and It happens to every one. Younger days I couldn't catch enough coho and steel fished day and night shoulder to shoulder if need be 40 years of fishing later Id rather see a young angler hook up or a older jent wonting to catch one more. I post heavy about the bay fishing for steel and have enjoyed the last several weeks watching anglers in their 80's and 90's and young anglers catch steel that other wise would never have enjoyed and I feel great about it, I guess I'm just selfish.



T.T. -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 11:07:13 AM)

quote:

they really are concerned about finding a few extra fishermen in "their" favorite spot.


...and I'm one of those people.  I admitt that, but guess what, I do as much of my fishing on the PAFBC waters as I do on private yet open water.  I don't mind combat fishing much of the time, but when I want to get away from the crowds, I don't want to find more crowds, especially the snaggers.  These PRIVATE PROPERTIES usually are further from the road, more secluded (thus one of the reasons people like myself enjoy fishing them) and unfortunately are subject to more pressure from unethical people. 

Logic dictates that the more PRIVATE LAND that is put out on the internet, more PRIVATE LAND will become POSTED LAND!!!

There is a lot of water available to fisherpersons through the PAFBC, township parks, easements, and easily-managed private holdings (Manchester for one).  There is no need to put a private landowners location on the internet.

There's also a big difference between an un-pressured stream and an under-utilized stream in a fishery such as this one where you barely have enough room for private clubs to exist alongside public holdings.  I joined the PSA to have a voice in ensuring the public's access to these fish.   At the same time, I understand the PRIVATE LANDOWNER'S wishes to keep crowds and clutter to minimums and out of certain areas, such as within eyesight of the home along the newly opened section of Crooked.  That's one of the benefits of belonging to a club like the PSA, Gem City Fly Tyers, or the S.O.N.S.  You can have it both ways, but if one way is neglected, we all lose.



T.T. -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 11:14:55 AM)

BTW- I know this is a privately owned message board, but if our votes count, I vote YES to deleting specific locations posted here or in the reports.

This site, as well as the PAFBC site, have adequate maps and information to allow anyone with access to a computer the oportunity to find fishable waters.



crappiefisher -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 11:25:44 AM)

  IMHO say there are 500 hits in 2 weeks on a subject, I think alot of the same members are veiwing
the same subject at least twice if not more a day for the 14 days. Prob. 95% of the few other viewers wouldn't
go there anyway. Figure out the math. It's the guys that have nothin better to do or just nerds like me that make a posts look like a big hit.

Post what you want when you want, no big deal to me. I'll post times & places on Arthur without regrets.

Crappy



T.T. -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 11:29:59 AM)

quote:

or just nerds like me


[:D]



Rtom45 -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 11:39:57 AM)

I also agree with the original post.  Please delete all specific locations. 



Presquisleanglr -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's (11/16/2007 11:55:37 AM)

How many anglers will really go look?  Several years back I was setting some rat traps on a small creek that runs into walnut, this creek is just up from 54th street and runs under peach street and along a mowed front yard of a hospital, groomed grassy banks both sides great for muskrats,as I was working my way up this small creek setting every rat hole, I could not believe the amount of steel head in this small creek, I'm still amassed.Late last season the creeks jammed up with slush, a couple anglers from WV stopped by the shop seeking some options, I told them about this little creek. Needless to say I received one of those looks, with little to no options the words of a stranger sitting in a converted freezer box of a bait shop seemed too bazaar not to try. The following day the same anglers returned and thanked me for the completely amassing fishing outing. But all did was tell them where?



T.T. -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's (11/16/2007 11:58:04 AM)

quote:

a couple anglers from WV stopped by the shop seeking some options


And to think I would have to wait an eternity to see you put your true motivation on the boards.  Thanks for the insight.



Happy Guy -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 12:04:48 PM)

WCO Brook and I made a gentlemans agreement for me to keep my property open this fall and spring.  He said he would put the word out but I didn't know it meant posting it on PAFBC website.  Not upset.  I just wish it was promoted with more details.  So I'll give a little more info here and then maybe "the word" can be spread a little different.  It is one fishing hole and that's it.  It's a great place for kids and beginners to catch a couple fish to get some experience.  I've never seen anyone show up and catch 20 to 30 fish.  While elk and walnut are hot my place is dead cold.  Poor is probably an overestimate of the fishing right now.  The drought has taken it's toll.  We're struggling to catch 3 or 4 a day.  Not per person and a good part of the day.  The damage has been done but a couple hours of this post and then maybe the moderator could delete the posts about Happy Valley on Crooked and minimize some damage.  My family and friend's enjoyment is very important to me!  This is a trial period.  Let's make it work.  Thank You.



Bughawk -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 12:11:20 PM)

Would those who seem to not think posting on the internet specific spots on private land PLEASE listen to Happy Guy.  This exactly what I and many have been talking about.



T.T. -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 12:12:34 PM)

You're a good man, Brad.  I hope it all works out for everyone's benefit.  If it doesn't, we will pretty much know why.  You certainly won't owe an explaination to this crowd.  



Presquisleanglr -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's (11/16/2007 12:17:53 PM)

Tim
Some times your just too bazaar your self, But thats why I love you. Now for the rest of the story, a bunch of my duck hunting sportsmen friends where worming up at the shop anticipating rotation in the layout box when a couple of anglers showed up (WV) screaming north west with intermittent snow great for duck but theses where the first anglers Ive seen all week and I'm quite sure you (TT) would not be out in such conditions.So whats your point?



tippy-toe -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's (11/16/2007 12:51:57 PM)

"The logic of my post was adopting the logic of the prior posts.  It is a fantasy that a post on a message board causes flocks of anglers to converge on that spot."


C'mon dude thats just plain stupid !!!! Do you think when 1000 people read that it is on at spot X atleast 100 won't be there the next day????/

How's fantasyland this time of year??



mikeg -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's (11/16/2007 12:56:54 PM)

Although I tend to agree with the original post, no rules have been broken. As far as I'm concerned, the reports should be limited to water conditions only.

Besides, no matter how far you drive, if you believe 98% of those post, you should take up golf...

If you need to read about somebody catching 179 fish in 2 hours to motivate you to drive a little ways.....well I'll just leave the rest out.



SilverKype -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 1:01:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Happy Guy

WCO Brook and I made a gentlemans agreement for me to keep my property open this fall and spring.  He said he would put the word out but I didn't know it meant posting it on PAFBC website.  Not upset.  I just wish it was promoted with more details.  So I'll give a little more info here and then maybe "the word" can be spread a little different.  It is one fishing hole and that's it.  It's a great place for kids and beginners to catch a couple fish to get some experience.  I've never seen anyone show up and catch 20 to 30 fish.  While elk and walnut are hot my place is dead cold.  Poor is probably an overestimate of the fishing right now.  The drought has taken it's toll.  We're struggling to catch 3 or 4 a day.  Not per person and a good part of the day.  The damage has been done but a couple hours of this post and then maybe the moderator could delete the posts about Happy Valley on Crooked and minimize some damage.  My family and friend's enjoyment is very important to me!  This is a trial period.  Let's make it work.  Thank You.


I can only HOPE moderator that you can follow through on taking those posts off about HIS property. 



mikeg -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 1:05:48 PM)

Actually yes.....I will delete that post.

But the fact is, it was a thank you, not a report that I caught 75 fish there. Besides, don't you think all the hole jumpers already read it on the MAIN reports page.



mikeg -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 1:07:38 PM)

I just reread it....Are you talking about my post?



beerman -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 1:19:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MackJ

The logic of my post was adopting the logic of the prior posts.  It is a fantasy that a post on a message board causes flocks of anglers to converge on that spot.  But -- and this is the point -- assuming that was the case, anglers going to one spot must neccessarily be reducing pressure on the spots they otherwise would have gone.  The number of anglers is finite.  Either they are all crowded into the best known spots that some of the "five stars" think are OK to post about, or they are spread out more evenly among the dozens upon dozens of miles of creek. 

I have seen these types of threads/posts for many years in many different destinations and they all come down to the same thing-- while people try to appear that they are concerned for the fish, landowner relations, etc., etc., they really are concerned about finding a few extra fishermen in "their" favorite spot. 


I respectfully disagree with much of what you stated, Mack.  Especially the line "it is a fantasy that a post on a message board causes flocks of anglers to converge on that spot".



SilverKype -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters (11/16/2007 1:34:05 PM)

I am talking about whatever mentions his property's name.  He made a suggestion about taking it off and I think it should be granted no questions asked.

I understand you were thanking him but you could have just stopped down to do so.  The fact is, that 99% of the people reading these posts have never fished that section.  Probably never fished that stream.  Many probably never even heard of it!!!  Most reading it probably won't go.  BUT .. All it takes is one jackoff.  You know? 

The fact is that this fishery is in trouble with access problems.  Posting of specific locations whether it be here or the reports page should be controlled with zero tolerance.   Whether it be by the moderators, the users using a little self control, or the administrator shutting it all down. 

Specific locations are controlled on other websites and they got wade laws, navigable rivers, bigger water, and WAY less fishermen and WAY less fish!!!!  We just keep digging and digging deeper.  Every year we lose more and more access. 



T.T. -> RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's (11/16/2007 1:34:57 PM)

You love me???  Hmmmm.  I've never bought anything in your tackle shop.  I've questioned your motivations on the boards several times, and because some people I KNOW have used my first name, you think you can too, and you love me.  Hmmmm. 

...........

As for being out in "theses" conditions, and you not seeing any anglers, try a spell check every now and then, and open up a window in that tin can.  The fumeses are getting to you.



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