RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters

RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters

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RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters - 11/16/2007 1:41:28 PM

T.T.

Posts: 3045
Status: offline

To quote Chevy Chase, "Holy $@##! Where's the Tylenol?"

We DO agree on several things.

(in reply to SilverKype)

Post #: 31

RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters - 11/16/2007 1:43:30 PM

D-nymph

Posts: 2105
Joined: 9/19/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: beerman

quote:

ORIGINAL: MackJ

The logic of my post was adopting the logic of the prior posts. It is a fantasy that a post on a message board causes flocks of anglers to converge on that spot. But -- and this is the point -- assuming that was the case, anglers going to one spot must neccessarily be reducing pressure on the spots they otherwise would have gone. The number of anglers is finite. Either they are all crowded into the best known spots that some of the "five stars" think are OK to post about, or they are spread out more evenly among the dozens upon dozens of miles of creek.

I have seen these types of threads/posts for many years in many different destinations and they all come down to the same thing-- while people try to appear that they are concerned for the fish, landowner relations, etc., etc., they really are concerned about finding a few extra fishermen in "their" favorite spot.

I respectfully disagree with much of what you stated, Mack. Especially the line "it is a fantasy that a post on a message board causes flocks of anglers to converge on that spot".

Me too. As all of us who have been part of this site and others know, it's far from a fantasy. We've all seen it happen, and some have seen it many times.

(in reply to beerman)

Post #: 32

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/16/2007 1:59:48 PM

Pizzapro

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/3/2003
Status: offline

Mike G maybe someone should change the rules ! I know this is a private board .If the ownership can visualize the impact change can be made.
PresqueIsle Angler does not have to divulge locations to anglers to make a living.In fact most responsible shops do not divulge locations.Competent anglers(regular customers) are more than capable of finding their own places to fish.

(in reply to T.T.)

Post #: 33

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/16/2007 2:08:29 PM

T.T.

Posts: 3045
Status: offline

Well said.

I'll add one last thing on that. Anyone from out of town or a total newbie that has no clue about public access areas, let alone open-private land, should hire a guide. That's what they are here for. As was stated on another thread, those people can not only have a poor impact on the fishery if they do something wrong or go someplace none of us are allowed to be, they themselves can end up with a very bad experience and that can be just as damaging. Hiring a competent guide would avoid all of that.

(in reply to Pizzapro)

Post #: 34

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/16/2007 2:32:12 PM

Presquisleanglr

Posts: 192
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline

Just Me

Love many, hurt no one , trust few. And you T.T.

(in reply to T.T.)

Post #: 35

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/16/2007 3:26:01 PM

formerguide

Posts: 1002
Joined: 9/23/2002
Status: offline

"Spot-burning" is absolutely a problem on this site. It's not as if 1000's of people are necesarry to ruin a good, out-of-the-way spot either. Think of a typical small trib, one that doesn't get much presssure. Now, imagine the furthest upstream access point. Maybe 1 or 2 cars at most generally are seen at this spot. The fishing ins't terrifc, but few people think to fish there, and it's a nice place to go when things are crowded and your expectaions are reasonable. Now, imagine someone posts how terrific that spot was, how no one was around, solitude, blah, blah, blah... If ONLY 3 more cars per day parked there (hardly far-fetched) this fomerly out-of-the-way spot is all of a sudden crowded. The fishing suffers, the landowner gets pissed, and the trash onstream just got doubled.

What really burns a lot of people, myself included, are the posts that ask "How's the fishing at ______?" Having to drive a long distance doesn't cut it. A lot of people drive a considerable distance, and spend an inordinate amount of time getting there. People seem to continuously argue that "I don't want to waste my time at _________ if the fish aren't there yet, or if the water is no good." People seem to think that the only time to fish is when conditions are perfect.

Newsflash- the BEST time to fish is whenever you can. Even better, when conditions aren't "perfect" on your favorite stretch, find an area where the fishing is good. The more spots that you have available in your databank, the less dependent you will be based upon water conditions. The guys who catch the most fish aren't necessarily the best anglers (though they often are...) They just have the most spots to draw upon when conditions are high, or low, or warm, or too cold, etc... And, why do any of us fish in the first place? Do I like to catch fish? Of course. But it's not why I fish, or at the least, it's not ALL of why I fish.

So, here is my opinion on how spots should be monitored on this board. I've even suggested this before. It's vague enough to hide spots, and help dissipate stream traffic, but specific enough to truly help someone who needs some information.

You can mention the following:

20 Mile Creek (no specifics)
Other East-side Trib (would include all of the Mile Streams other than 20)
Walnut - Lake to Rt 5
Walnut - Upstream of Rt 5
Trout Run
Elk Creek - Lake to Rt 5
Elk Creek - Rt 5 to Rt 20
Elk Creek - Rt 20 to McKean
Crooked Creek (no specifics)
Other (any stream or area not covered by the above...)
OH - would include any and all OH streams
NY West - Any NY Erie trib
NY East - Any NY Ontario trib

You cannot-

Mention by name any spot not covered by the above, including unstocked streams, unstocked branches, and no-name streams.

Again, I feel that this is a fair way for people to give and get information, without stampeding a specific spot. So, for example, a person can say, "Fished Elk, between Rt 5 and Rt 20. Did terrific! Water was great, crowds weren't too bad- pink SS was the ticket for me!" Now, honestly, how much more information does anyone need? You know that Elk fished well somewhere a ways up from the lake, but not too far up. Now, you have several spots to try in that given area. Everyone can benefit from the info, but no one spot would be overrun.

Just like, one could say, "Fished a Mile Stream- water was OK..." That's all anyone should need. What difference does it make what specific Mile stream it was? You know it wasn't 20, so you can guage by that alone.

Anyway, just my $.02- it seems to me a fair compromise all-around...

Dan

< Message edited by formerguide -- 11/16/2007 3:30:10 PM >

(in reply to Presquisleanglr)

Post #: 36

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/16/2007 3:28:35 PM

Presquisleanglr

Posts: 192
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline

pizzapro makes a good point Mike G is in the pickle ,are not enough guides in the United States of America to accommodate the influx of newbie anglers on any given weekend. Just to open a widow in the tin can. I fished the continental US and have found that a local anglers advise is some times worth a thousand cast.Ive ben the newbie form out of town for many species in many different states and never trespassed left trash or have ben disrespectfully.(maybe once in Colorado) . most anglers are good people some are not and some just don't care. But the end result is many pay for the action of few.

(in reply to Presquisleanglr)

Post #: 37

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/16/2007 3:32:33 PM

beerman

Posts: 3658
Joined: 1/14/2002
From: Key West, Florida
Status: offline

Well said Formerguide!

_____________________________

changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes....nothing remains quite the same

The Beerman ~ Greg

(in reply to formerguide)

Post #: 38

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/16/2007 6:41:18 PM

genieman77

Posts: 1529
Status: offline

"The damage has been done but a couple hours of this post and then maybe the moderator could delete the posts about Happy Valley on Crooked and minimize some damage."

didn't take long, did it....

..........................................................................................................

MackJ, as others have mentioned, it's NOT a "fantasy"
Too many of us have seen it over and over through the years.

..............................................................................................

Ban ALL location reports.

..L.T.A.

(in reply to beerman)

Post #: 39

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/16/2007 8:14:01 PM

doubletaper

Posts: 1022
Joined: 10/15/2007
From: clarion, pa
Status: offline

hope you guys come up with a solution soon, my heads hurt'n (i'm in agreement with what most of you all said.) since it's you locals who give out most of the conditions and know where the problems lie with property owners get together to help all of us out.) just my $.02. boy if i saved all my 2 cents that was worth anything i'de have a.......dime by now!!!

_____________________________

beer and whiskey makes me frisky
but it's fly rods and trout streams that excite me

it's not luck
if success is consistent

(in reply to genieman77)

Post #: 40

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/16/2007 11:51:48 PM

youngguru

Posts: 1002
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline

i hamaRed the stelhed at follees eNd

go ther

(in reply to doubletaper)

Post #: 41

RE: Conserve what's left Moderaters - 11/17/2007 12:49:49 AM

jeeters

Posts: 42
Joined: 12/19/2003
Status: offline

i have seen first hand what the internet and the bait shops can do to an area,a couple of years back word got out about all the fish at sterritania .There where people coming out of the woodwork and some areas did get posted out of that mayhem.This site is the only one that i know of in the great lakes that still tells all and if we keep it up there will be less and less to talk about.

(in reply to Pizzapro)

Post #: 42

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/17/2007 1:13:16 AM

nightowl207

Posts: 422
Status: offline

in my opinion, as bughawk stated, please dont post someones property for the fact that it is disrespectful to invite people onto someone elses property. lets say youngurus mom is a excellent cook, it would be pretty disrespectful to invite all of you over for a sweet animal shaped chicken nugget dinner without her permission. agree? if the property is public, you own it, or the land owner approves go ahead and post away. i dont understand what gets someones rocks off about telling someone where "the good spots" are anyway. its like telling someone the end of a movie before the other person sees it. if it makes somebody feel better about theirselves because "they spread the news" they need to find some new priorities in life.

_____________________________

W A R N I N G.......keep in mind these are only opinions. they may be dumb, smart, right, or wrong in your eyes.

(in reply to T.T.)

Post #: 43

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/17/2007 10:11:16 PM

youngguru

Posts: 1002
Joined: 4/17/2005
Status: offline

ASS crik roks
i hamaRed 40 stelhed ther on fridey

< Message edited by youngguru -- 11/17/2007 10:12:11 PM >

(in reply to nightowl207)

Post #: 44

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 8:14:41 AM

Stillhead

Posts: 2766
Joined: 12/19/2003
Status: offline

Yuru,

u hamaar the stelly's in the MeRina yett? I feshed iT wonce laSs weaK biT WeT waz two mUdEE. Bet lowd FrAnK is haamaarin' the Stelly's thear nOW.

(in reply to youngguru)

Post #: 45

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 9:12:27 AM

Wally Cat

Posts: 1019
Joined: 3/27/2002
From: Scottdale, PA
Status: offline

I agree with some of the material posted above and feel that the "Reports" section should be limited to water conditions. I believe most fisherman have the ability to look over the streams, test a few areas, try a few different baits and find out a little about fishing on their own. This idea of spoon feeding the masses leads to general problems just like it does with the government. Let them do it for themselves and the industry will be better off for it. Even giving baits to use is often in error due to the ever changing diet of the fish. Anything you have to work for is more appreciated and tends to give an individual more personal satisfaction, unless of course you're into that personal "Ego" thing and have to brag about how many hook ups you had. Try posting your report of how many kids you helped catch their first fish or gave your spot to even for a little while.

Just my two cents.

_____________________________

Enjoy Life, Be Happy, Go Fish - Often!

"God has blessed America - may He continue to do so, even though we are not worthy of it".
Author..... Wally Cat

(in reply to T.T.)

Post #: 46

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 9:42:40 AM

MackJ

Posts: 318
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wally Cat

....Try posting your report of how many kids you helped catch their first fish or gave your spot to even for a little while.

Usually you only see these kinds of comments when someone is trying to defend their otherwise proprietary attitudes as expressed here.

I am not a regular at Erie tribs, but have been making a few trips a season for a few years now and though I have seen some very courteous behavior from all anglers, local and foreign, I rarely see an angler invite others into their spot when they have that prime drift and everyone around them are fishing the edges of the holding lies. Usually they hold tight to that sweet spot. I am not saying I blame them, it is certainly their right for getting their early or getting in the lie first, but based upon the claims I sometimes see made here, I would think I would see it occur more often when I am on the stream. Just sayin' is all....

(in reply to Wally Cat)

Post #: 47

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 1:04:20 PM

spoonchucker

Posts: 5833
Status: offline

Mack,

Too often people ASSume that because one person is hooking up often, while those just above, or below him are not that HE has locked up the prime drift. More often than not, he could exchange places, and the results would be the same. He would continue to hook up, and they would not. Even though THEY are now in the "sweet spot". Then again there IS a certain satisfaction in stepping into the spot someone just vacated to crowd you, and catching fish in their "dead water".

_____________________________

Get Informed, Get Involved, And Make A Difference.

Step Up, or Step Aside

The next time you say "Somebody should do something", remember that YOU are somebody.

GL&TC

(in reply to MackJ)

Post #: 48

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 2:33:42 PM

Bughawk

Posts: 5912
Status: offline

The sweet spot is where you catch fish. If you know how to catch fish, you will find your sweet spot.

_____________________________

pax vobiscum +

(in reply to spoonchucker)

Post #: 49

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 3:05:18 PM

pghmarty

Posts: 4385
Joined: 12/5/2004
From: Bradford Pa then Pittsburgh
Status: online

Here is a map with everyone's secret spot.
http://www.fishusa.com/FishErie/images/maps/Map1.gif

Now how hard could it be for others to find steel?

(in reply to Bughawk)

Post #: 50

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 3:57:34 PM

jeffjava

Posts: 21
Joined: 11/15/2007
Status: offline

Are you guys familiar with local.live.com. So far not much of your area is covered by the "birds eye view". Where I live I can nearly read the plate number on my car. In about another 10 years I would not be suprised if they can detect the fish "real time" in the streams. Look on the NSA's web site sometime. They claim that they have technology the public and commercial sector is not even aware exists.

(in reply to pghmarty)

Post #: 51

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 5:15:25 PM

genieman77

Posts: 1529
Status: offline

here's one Wally.

I was lucky on a tough bite day and hooked up the first fish of the day from under a blow down tree.
This kid was down below me a bit fishing with his dad.

as soon as i hooked up, i called the kid over.
gave some quick pointers about keeping a firm grip on the rod, how to keep the rod tip high and to let the drag do the work when the fish ran.
(and how not to bust his knuckles on a fly reel when the fish ran)

He did a GREAT job (on 4 pound tippet too) and landed his FIRST EVER steelie

Love to see 'em smile!!!

..l.T.A.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by genieman77 -- 11/18/2007 5:16:08 PM >

(in reply to jeffjava)

Post #: 52

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 5:19:03 PM

genieman77

Posts: 1529
Status: offline

try again

why won't the pic show??

I did the same thing i did with the winter pic
what's up????

DAGNABBIT!!!!!!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by genieman77 -- 11/18/2007 5:21:29 PM >

(in reply to genieman77)

Post #: 53

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 6:27:27 PM

pghmarty

Posts: 4385
Joined: 12/5/2004
From: Bradford Pa then Pittsburgh
Status: online

"You need to store the picture in a site like photobucket then use the http// address.

Resize pictures to around 600x something before loading into your storage site

Put the link into the Add image icon

above where you write.

I use Faststone for editing photos.
It is a free download and is very easy to use.
Photobucket is also free

After you do it once it is pretty easy.

Only use one http// in the add image box-there is one in the box and one in the link.

< Message edited by pghmarty -- 11/18/2007 6:29:29 PM >

(in reply to genieman77)

Post #: 54

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 6:53:48 PM

pappy69

Posts: 356
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: offline

Here's the real secret. . . there are streams that contribute to Lake Erie that have been stocked with smolt. Each year a certain number of these smolt, usually rainbow trout, travel out to the depths of Lake Erie and feed only to return to spawn as "steelhead." All of these streams are located within Erie County. The steelhead travel upstream to about the middle of Erie County around McKean and other points west and east. The best know streams are Walnut and Elk, but there are others that require a person to look upon a map.

Sorry, to give the secret out fellas, but that's just the kind of guy I am.

_____________________________

Pappy

(in reply to T.T.)

Post #: 55

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 7:46:55 PM

carpin05

Posts: 393
Joined: 5/30/2005
Status: offline

So some of you guys think its ok to fish the crouds when the fish are in the lower parts of the tribs but when the fish move up stay out of my honey hole?????
you frigin guys got BIG ONES!!!!!
SHUT THE HELL UP AND FISH!!!!!!!

(in reply to pappy69)

Post #: 56

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 7:57:31 PM

mossy oak

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/13/2003
Status: offline

MikeG,

IS there a way to put this to a vote and let the majority rule? I think you know what the outcome will be. Surely Dan or the administrators would be glad to see this finally be put to rest and the reports and discussions of precise spots put to an end.

MO

_____________________________

It's better to have loved and lost than to have had to live with that bitch the rest of my life!!

Krott is a baitdrifter!!

(in reply to carpin05)

Post #: 57

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 8:26:29 PM

Presquisleanglr

Posts: 192
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline

Hold on now big fella, I just spent the better part of today talking to anglers from a bunch of different streams and ask a simple question, Do you use the web? come to find out 80 percent did not even know this web page existed,most did not use a computer. Hard to believe is it! So your vote scenario would not be accurate, other then the web mongers that much too often frequent the page .

(in reply to mossy oak)

Post #: 58

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 8:32:50 PM

jeffjava

Posts: 21
Joined: 11/15/2007
Status: offline

pghmarty, nice, although you realize the private sector can do alot better.

(in reply to mossy oak)

Post #: 59

RE: Conserve what's left Moderator's - 11/18/2007 8:40:43 PM

mossy oak

Posts: 898
Joined: 10/13/2003
Status: offline

Point taken and noted. However, word of mouth from this site carries FAR. Further than you can imagine. Where the hell were you? 80% sounds like such a skewed nember.

Were you in the pigpen??

MO

_____________________________

It's better to have loved and lost than to have had to live with that bitch the rest of my life!!

Krott is a baitdrifter!!

(in reply to Presquisleanglr)

Post #: 60

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