RE: Color of Fresh Fish

RE: Color of Fresh Fish

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RE: Color of Fresh Fish - 10/20/2009 11:16:50 AM

JEB

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From: New Brighton, Pa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hiclassHilbilly

I have seen fish darkening up already, but they dont spawn untill march/april.... are you telling me that they are preparing for that already?

I assumed the darkening was a natural change for purposes of camoflauge.

we have both fall and spring spawners, two
different strains to provide 6 months of fish in the tribs...

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Post #: 31

RE: Color of Fresh Fish - 10/20/2009 3:26:44 PM

Over the Hill

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Joined: 3/28/2007
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In 2002, I caught a 16# brown in LO on July 4th. It was dark and looked like "fall river colors". Everyone I showed it to was amazed and thought I took it from the river. That fish should have been chrome.

As far as fish replacing their scales... They do not replace their scales unless they are lost. If they did, how come biologists can take the scales and age the fish from the scale's growth rings on it?

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Post #: 32

RE: Color of Fresh Fish - 10/20/2009 10:37:38 PM

hiclassHilbilly

Posts: 749
Joined: 1/7/2009
From: blairsville, pa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JEB

quote:

ORIGINAL: hiclassHilbilly

I have seen fish darkening up already, but they dont spawn untill march/april.... are you telling me that they are preparing for that already?

I assumed the darkening was a natural change for purposes of camoflauge.

we have both fall and spring spawners, two
different strains to provide 6 months of fish in the tribs...

that explains it then. If you fish in march, you will fish spawning all over the shallows. I have never noticed them spawning in Nov and I havent fished during Dec. I have a well posted pic of me, in camo waders and fishing with red hooks (lol), holding a male that is painting me white. The pic is from 2 years ago in march. They DEFINATELY spawn in the spring, and aparently the fall also.

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Post #: 33

RE: Color of Fresh Fish - 10/20/2009 10:59:27 PM

anadromous

Posts: 3390
Joined: 11/16/2006
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I could be off base but I thought there were several strains in erie... mutts yes, but with different spawning time characterictics. It would make sense for monetary gain since the steel would in a essence run steady all winter and into spring...This may explain the mix of behaviors at different times. Again I could be off base but I believe I read that in one of Nagy's publications. It may well explain away alot of our musings here...

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Post #: 34

RE: Color of Fresh Fish - 10/21/2009 8:06:03 AM

genieman77

Posts: 1979
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quote:

ORIGINAL: anadromous

I could be off base but I thought there were several strains in erie... mutts yes, but with different spawning time characterictics.

I may be off base too, but while the "mutt" may be a mix of several strains, it's kind of became "it's own breed" due to years of stripping eggs and milt from the same "mixed breed" year after year.
I'm sure some strays get mixed in the bunch, but for practical purposes, not enough to make a big impact

quote:

This may explain the mix of behaviors at different times. Again I could be off base but I believe I read that in one of Nagy's publications. It may well explain away alot of our musings here...

personally, I've never experienced anything that would be considered a "large" spring run in Pa.
(while it's true, come Spring I'm generally in Ohio)
But have fished Pa over the years in Spring too

I've always contented that the Pa runs of Spring were Ohio strays and Pa jacks mixed in with lots of beat up boot hold overs
(On Elk anyway..the Pa trib I have the most years/hours on)

It's been my observations over the the years that the over whelming majority of Pa fish are in by early/mid Nov
(again, on Elk, )

I've also seen them making redds as early as Sept and late into Spring.
But the bulk spawn in late Fall/early Winter

I'd be interested in your observations on the east side trib you fish the most?
is it different or similar than my observations of Elk?

lastly, I don't know what strain NY stocks, but understand there's a fair amount of natural repro in the Cat.
Is it possible you're seeing a fair amount of non Pa Fall runner "mutts" in 20 mi?

..L.T.A.

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Post #: 35

RE: Color of Fresh Fish - 10/21/2009 9:21:29 AM

anadromous

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Joined: 11/16/2006
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"Through the continual collection of eggs from returning spawning steelhead over the years the PF&BC has been able to develop a unique, “naturalized” Lake Erie hatchery strain of steelhead that has adapted very well to the Lake Erie ecosystem. Not a pure strain steelhead by any means, it has a varied genetic background including winter run Washington strain, summer run Skamania and domesticated rainbow which is a spring spawner." -John Nagy

I am sure there is one strain that dominates but it does explain why there are spawning activities taking place for several months rather than all at one time.

< Message edited by anadromous -- 10/21/2009 9:29:28 AM >

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Post #: 36

RE: Color of Fresh Fish - 10/21/2009 10:23:54 AM

cp13

Posts: 544
Joined: 10/24/2007
From: Erie, PA
Status: offline

Who cares?

You registered just to tell people they were wrong in assuming silver fish aren't always fresh? KMP?

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Post #: 37

RE: Color of Fresh Fish - 10/21/2009 11:49:05 AM

spawnchucker

Posts: 78
Status: offline

Fascinating information Free Spirit. Nice to here a biological perspective with experience mixed in.

Interesting thread. Just a few observations from experience only (nothing scientific).

Seen a few mint bright hens in spring spawning in PA waters w/o any color at all, even an occassional rare chrome male in the spring (not droppies). These obviously aren't PA fall runners and more than likely Manistee strays from OH. Most PA fish spawning are typically pretty colorful. Lower rivers in OH are loaded with very bright fish April every year and many spawners still have tail sheen. Maybe coloring varies abit strain to strain, but it's hard to believe that the time a steelhead spends in a stream has nothing to do with their coloring.

The few "trapped" fish I've seen and/or caught occassionally in mid summer upstream on some of the tribs have always had some coloring; perhaps resembling a stream rainbow, who knows???

Bucks that have arrived in early fall are typically wintered up Charcoal by late fall early winter especially when water approach freezing. Typically wintered over fish turn really dark, sometimes even seasoned hens have alot of color in winter.

IMO, fresh run fish from the lake are typically bright as a dime, but the freshest fish nearly always fight far superior to those approaching their sexual maturity especially in PA. A prime indicator of a fresh mint silver fish is that chrome sheen that extends into the center area of the tail.

As far as drop backs, I've caught them far up rivers in late spring completely mint silver with sheen back in their tails and the only sign of them spawning is their sleek body and perhaps a slight rub on the bottom of their tails.

Perhaps the many stocked fish having rainbow roots and not pure steelhead roots from the northwest the genetics vary amongst the different strains alot greater than one might think. No doubt, sexual maturity has the most to do with a fishes coloring but I'd bet there's some other environmental factors go into why some have much more vibrant coloring than others.

Chucker

< Message edited by spawnchucker -- 10/21/2009 11:56:37 AM >

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Post #: 38

RE: Color of Fresh Fish - 10/21/2009 1:14:38 PM

genieman77

Posts: 1979
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cp13

You registered just to tell people they were wrong in assuming silver fish aren't always fresh? KMP?

duUd, this has been one of the better threads this season.
It's chock full of great stuff and interesting observations

Rather refreshing, really

..L.T.A.

(in reply to cp13)

Post #: 39

RE: Color of Fresh Fish - 10/21/2009 2:11:25 PM

jolie

Posts: 137
Joined: 7/17/2007
Status: offline

I agree, LTA...

one of the better threads and since we've got some knowledgeable guys, here's a quick question...

whats the difference Between steelheads and rainbow. I mean PA breeds BOTH right? but the rainbows they put in every small stream in April DON'T seem to move in and out of big lakes, do they? there's plenty of stocked bows in small streams connected to a lake and some in lakes connected to small streams. SO Is it Genetics that make these different?

do they have to from time to time, bring back some of the purebreads from Washington to bring back the "steel" in these fish.

and are they tweaking the amount of running from fall to spring, when they re-hybridize these fish?

I heard there's a clear controversy about whether a rainbow trout and a steelheads ARE the same species.

(in reply to genieman77)

Post #: 40

RE: Color of Fresh Fish - 10/21/2009 2:17:33 PM

Snowbrdr420

Posts: 98
Joined: 10/16/2008
Status: online

Yeah thanks guys. You have all contributed a lot of interesting facts and observations about the different strains and spawning habits of Erie Steelhead, which sound like they come from many years of experience.

I just wanted to shoot down the myth that the streams themselves or length of time spent in the streams was a direct result of the color. However, I have found it very interesting reading everyone's observations and have even learned a thing or two.

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Post #: 41

RE: Color of Fresh Fish - 10/21/2009 6:39:00 PM

Stillhead

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Joined: 12/19/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: genieman77

quote:

ORIGINAL: anadromous

It's been my observations over the the years that the over whelming majority of Pa fish are in by early/mid Nov
(again, on Elk, )

quote:

Majority of Pa fish spawn after iceout, late Feb. to late March.

I'd say about 10 percent of our fish spawn late fall early winter if water temps. stay warm enough. Just a guess after countless days staring at them.

< Message edited by Stillhead -- 10/21/2009 6:53:23 PM >

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Post #: 42

RE: Color of Fresh Fish - 10/22/2009 12:14:11 AM

hiclassHilbilly

Posts: 749
Joined: 1/7/2009
From: blairsville, pa
Status: offline

Lets not make the mistake that the number of fish in the stream is only related to spawning activity. Someone posted that numbers are Highest in the fall, and I totally agree with that. But in feb-march, on 20 mile, you will see 30-50 fish on every shallow flat, scooping out beds and scattering eggs and milt.

I have never seen any activity like that in the fall/winter, unless I just happened to miss when it happens. In feb/march, it is VERY obvious that they are trying to spawn.

spring numbers on 20 mile are probably 1/4 of what they normally are in the fall, but the fish can be seen activley spawning.

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it doesn't show, but 3 of my great grandparent were native americans. They were from the arapaho, slapaho and pimpaho tribes.

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Post #: 43

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